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On May 29 2012 20:43 ihasaKAROT wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 20:13 sob3k wrote:On May 29 2012 19:48 ihasaKAROT wrote:
But do you use locust or bears with a kiting setup or not? For example taking the link i posted earlier of my build, what would you guys change to make it better considering locust, bears or both Your build makes no sense. Why would you run vision quest/manawalk/manaharvest with that? What are you using all that man for? Put dire bats on your mouse2 if you want that kind of thing and you will do far more damage in nearly any situation. I dont know what a kiting setup is...every WD is going to be kiting everything. This is the bear build I used through hell and into inferno before switching into just splinters. You have enough mana with manawalk/templar/one mana regen item to use plenty of bears. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afdZPU!bXY!acZaZZPassives are to taste but these will give you the highest possible damage without Pveil, which wont work with bears unless you are doing an absurd spiritwalk build with Big Bad Vodoo running for mana. I use Locust whenever I can switch them in for a CC spell and feel comfortable, or just use them as mouse2 for my AOE when running pure splinters. Like I said, im still learning and my skills are more chosen by 'ive used this so far and it killed stuff' then a good composition thats just allround good. The build you posted, how does a usual fight go for you, since im used to having the Gargantuan with me and im not familiar with any other rotation so far.
What difficulty are you playing? Because the way fights go kind of depends on that 
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On May 30 2012 00:44 Doko wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 00:33 Corak wrote:
I'm Inferno A1 / A2.
I stopped using splinter and tried the 160% fire one again and feel I get a much better chance of dodging morter enchanted elites and the like. What is your experiance with splinters in that regard of kiting and dodging? I haven't played much with fire dart but it really sucks for soloing in the sense that you overkill a lot during trash mobs. Its possible its better for stutter step kiting but you are sacrificing 20% weapon damage for it. In all honesty some mortar mobs are just bullshit and should be avoided if they outrun you or you don't have the space to kite them in straight line before having to go around. I could see this being useful for subjugators in act 4 and hellslayers (i think thats what the fire spitting demons in act 3/4 are callled) Still, nothing scares me as much as fast extra health soul rippers that move at 1 screen per second and hit for 25k.
Against mortar, you have two options. First is to stand directly behind your meatshield (friend, templar, fetish) and spam zombie bears. Second is to spirit walk into the middle of the pack and spam zombie bears. Regardless of which you choose, spam zombie bears.
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Here is my build: It has been serving me very well as I'm progressing through Hell. I know alot of people use something similar in inferno.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUdQP!ZUV!aYZZbY
Vision Quest is key since it makes it advantageous to keep your spells on cooldown, with all that mana regen it is fantastic to spam zombie charger.
Spirit Vessel and Jungle fortitude have saved my butt countless times now.
For poison dart I find that splinters does better DPS, but some people swear by flaming dart. Snake to the face can be good against certain fights, but I prefer to outright dps enemies down.
When you run into a tough fight, drop both big bad voodoo and fetish army, this will give you a ton of damage and mana regen, so just spam zombie charger.
It is extremely helpful to have stacks of soul harvest up whenever possible.
One of the issues I'm facing is that the soul harvest life regen rune is losing its utility since it doesn't scale with better gear. Right now at almost 25k HP, even if I harvest 5 enemies, I only gain about 1/3 of my life back, which means that in inferno I may try healing journey on spirit walk instead and use the soul harvest rune for something else.
I use the templar with all the utility spells, and I look for the following on my gear (in this order)
1. Int
2. Vit
3. Damage
4. +Mana or mana regen
5. MF
6. (always have run speed on your boots)
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On May 30 2012 01:13 TheFish7 wrote:Here is my build: It has been serving me very well as I'm progressing through Hell. I know alot of people use something similar in inferno. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUdQP!ZUV!aYZZbYVision Quest is key since it makes it advantageous to keep your spells on cooldown, with all that mana regen it is fantastic to spam zombie charger. Spirit Vessel and Jungle fortitude have saved my butt countless times now. For poison dart I find that splinters does better DPS, but some people swear by flaming dart. Snake to the face can be good against certain fights, but I prefer to outright dps enemies down. When you run into a tough fight, drop both big bad voodoo and fetish army, this will give you a ton of damage and mana regen, so just spam zombie charger. It is extremely helpful to have stacks of soul harvest up whenever possible. One of the issues I'm facing is that the soul harvest life regen rune is losing its utility since it doesn't scale with better gear. Right now at almost 25k HP, even if I harvest 5 enemies, I only gain about 1/3 of my life back, which means that in inferno I may try healing journey on spirit walk instead and use the soul harvest rune for something else. I use the templar with all the utility spells, and I look for the following on my gear (in this order) 1. Int 2. Vit 3. Damage 4. +Mana or mana regen 5. MF 6. (always have run speed on your boots)
Just an FYI, pretty much every really successful WD in Inferno right now has totally stopped building any survivability (or at least never sacrificing damage for it). Most are below 25k health with 50-70k dps, as it currently no amount of mitigation will keep you alive for more than 2 hits in later Inferno A2-3-4, and they survive by killing mobs before they can be hit.
Vit is great for Hell and even parts of A1/A2 inferno, but it rapidly becomes worthless or severely undervalued compared to damage.
Also you need to pay more attention to the nonbasic stats (which is an issue i see alot of people fall into)
Start paying major attention to:
IAS, massive damage boost for splinters and other spammy stuff
Crit Chance and crit damage, these have huge dps increases once your weapon damage gets high
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On May 30 2012 00:58 Flummie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 20:43 ihasaKAROT wrote:On May 29 2012 20:13 sob3k wrote:On May 29 2012 19:48 ihasaKAROT wrote:
But do you use locust or bears with a kiting setup or not? For example taking the link i posted earlier of my build, what would you guys change to make it better considering locust, bears or both Your build makes no sense. Why would you run vision quest/manawalk/manaharvest with that? What are you using all that man for? Put dire bats on your mouse2 if you want that kind of thing and you will do far more damage in nearly any situation. I dont know what a kiting setup is...every WD is going to be kiting everything. This is the bear build I used through hell and into inferno before switching into just splinters. You have enough mana with manawalk/templar/one mana regen item to use plenty of bears. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afdZPU!bXY!acZaZZPassives are to taste but these will give you the highest possible damage without Pveil, which wont work with bears unless you are doing an absurd spiritwalk build with Big Bad Vodoo running for mana. I use Locust whenever I can switch them in for a CC spell and feel comfortable, or just use them as mouse2 for my AOE when running pure splinters. Like I said, im still learning and my skills are more chosen by 'ive used this so far and it killed stuff' then a good composition thats just allround good. The build you posted, how does a usual fight go for you, since im used to having the Gargantuan with me and im not familiar with any other rotation so far. What difficulty are you playing? Because the way fights go kind of depends on that
im on act3 nightmare atm, lvl48. 
I swapped to a new build and oooooohmygooooood my danage! Cant believe ive been using haunt all this time. even acidrain + grasp is soooooo much more dmg. with poisonpassive it melts even elitepacks in seconds. tnx for the advice ppl, gonna play with the ideas all nite
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On May 30 2012 02:14 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 01:13 TheFish7 wrote:Here is my build: It has been serving me very well as I'm progressing through Hell. I know alot of people use something similar in inferno. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUdQP!ZUV!aYZZbYVision Quest is key since it makes it advantageous to keep your spells on cooldown, with all that mana regen it is fantastic to spam zombie charger. Spirit Vessel and Jungle fortitude have saved my butt countless times now. For poison dart I find that splinters does better DPS, but some people swear by flaming dart. Snake to the face can be good against certain fights, but I prefer to outright dps enemies down. When you run into a tough fight, drop both big bad voodoo and fetish army, this will give you a ton of damage and mana regen, so just spam zombie charger. It is extremely helpful to have stacks of soul harvest up whenever possible. One of the issues I'm facing is that the soul harvest life regen rune is losing its utility since it doesn't scale with better gear. Right now at almost 25k HP, even if I harvest 5 enemies, I only gain about 1/3 of my life back, which means that in inferno I may try healing journey on spirit walk instead and use the soul harvest rune for something else. I use the templar with all the utility spells, and I look for the following on my gear (in this order) 1. Int 2. Vit 3. Damage 4. +Mana or mana regen 5. MF 6. (always have run speed on your boots) Just an FYI, pretty much every really successful WD in Inferno right now has totally stopped building any survivability (or at least never sacrificing damage for it). Most are below 25k health with 50-70k dps, as it currently no amount of mitigation will keep you alive for more than 2 hits in later Inferno A2-3-4, and they survive by killing mobs before they can be hit. Vit is great for Hell and even parts of A1/A2 inferno, but it rapidly becomes worthless or severely undervalued compared to damage. Also you need to pay more attention to the nonbasic stats (which is an issue i see alot of people fall into) Start paying major attention to: IAS, massive damage boost for splinters and other spammy stuff Crit Chance and crit damage, these have huge dps increases once your weapon damage gets high
So, wtf do you suggest for HC??
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On May 30 2012 03:11 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 02:14 sob3k wrote:On May 30 2012 01:13 TheFish7 wrote:Here is my build: It has been serving me very well as I'm progressing through Hell. I know alot of people use something similar in inferno. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUdQP!ZUV!aYZZbYVision Quest is key since it makes it advantageous to keep your spells on cooldown, with all that mana regen it is fantastic to spam zombie charger. Spirit Vessel and Jungle fortitude have saved my butt countless times now. For poison dart I find that splinters does better DPS, but some people swear by flaming dart. Snake to the face can be good against certain fights, but I prefer to outright dps enemies down. When you run into a tough fight, drop both big bad voodoo and fetish army, this will give you a ton of damage and mana regen, so just spam zombie charger. It is extremely helpful to have stacks of soul harvest up whenever possible. One of the issues I'm facing is that the soul harvest life regen rune is losing its utility since it doesn't scale with better gear. Right now at almost 25k HP, even if I harvest 5 enemies, I only gain about 1/3 of my life back, which means that in inferno I may try healing journey on spirit walk instead and use the soul harvest rune for something else. I use the templar with all the utility spells, and I look for the following on my gear (in this order) 1. Int 2. Vit 3. Damage 4. +Mana or mana regen 5. MF 6. (always have run speed on your boots) Just an FYI, pretty much every really successful WD in Inferno right now has totally stopped building any survivability (or at least never sacrificing damage for it). Most are below 25k health with 50-70k dps, as it currently no amount of mitigation will keep you alive for more than 2 hits in later Inferno A2-3-4, and they survive by killing mobs before they can be hit. Vit is great for Hell and even parts of A1/A2 inferno, but it rapidly becomes worthless or severely undervalued compared to damage. Also you need to pay more attention to the nonbasic stats (which is an issue i see alot of people fall into) Start paying major attention to: IAS, massive damage boost for splinters and other spammy stuff Crit Chance and crit damage, these have huge dps increases once your weapon damage gets high So, wtf do you suggest for HC??
Rolling for a DH.
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On May 30 2012 05:09 RaiZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 03:11 diehilde wrote:On May 30 2012 02:14 sob3k wrote:On May 30 2012 01:13 TheFish7 wrote:Here is my build: It has been serving me very well as I'm progressing through Hell. I know alot of people use something similar in inferno. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/witch-doctor#afUdQP!ZUV!aYZZbYVision Quest is key since it makes it advantageous to keep your spells on cooldown, with all that mana regen it is fantastic to spam zombie charger. Spirit Vessel and Jungle fortitude have saved my butt countless times now. For poison dart I find that splinters does better DPS, but some people swear by flaming dart. Snake to the face can be good against certain fights, but I prefer to outright dps enemies down. When you run into a tough fight, drop both big bad voodoo and fetish army, this will give you a ton of damage and mana regen, so just spam zombie charger. It is extremely helpful to have stacks of soul harvest up whenever possible. One of the issues I'm facing is that the soul harvest life regen rune is losing its utility since it doesn't scale with better gear. Right now at almost 25k HP, even if I harvest 5 enemies, I only gain about 1/3 of my life back, which means that in inferno I may try healing journey on spirit walk instead and use the soul harvest rune for something else. I use the templar with all the utility spells, and I look for the following on my gear (in this order) 1. Int 2. Vit 3. Damage 4. +Mana or mana regen 5. MF 6. (always have run speed on your boots) Just an FYI, pretty much every really successful WD in Inferno right now has totally stopped building any survivability (or at least never sacrificing damage for it). Most are below 25k health with 50-70k dps, as it currently no amount of mitigation will keep you alive for more than 2 hits in later Inferno A2-3-4, and they survive by killing mobs before they can be hit. Vit is great for Hell and even parts of A1/A2 inferno, but it rapidly becomes worthless or severely undervalued compared to damage. Also you need to pay more attention to the nonbasic stats (which is an issue i see alot of people fall into) Start paying major attention to: IAS, massive damage boost for splinters and other spammy stuff Crit Chance and crit damage, these have huge dps increases once your weapon damage gets high So, wtf do you suggest for HC?? Rolling for a DH.
Wouldn't help all that much. DH's may avoid more because ss is spammable, but it's the same setup where any successfully landed hit will kill you.
The best advice for HC is stay out of Inferno if you value your character.
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Best for HC is actually a barbarian. Survivability is key. Kungen did the world first inferno Butcher kill on hc with 2 barbs and 2 monks and they steam-rolled it. If you are going to spend so much time grinding out your gear, might as well do it on the most safe character imo.
And I played my WD some more on inferno today. The glaring imbalance that is demon hunter DPS seems to become more prevalant, everyone in my games was actually talking about it (even a wizard) ! Sad to see how I bought a better weapon (up to 25k dps now) and still get out-damaged by the DPS classes with worse gear though. But I noticed something nice about WDs, how much my CC can really help the group on inferno. I have switched out Soul Harvest in favor of Hex, because that spell is just so good. And on many repeats whether or not I timed my CCs perfectly or not was the difference between breezing through the first phase of belial, or wiping there. Still not get to down him today though, my friend (DH who is in act 4) came to help me but he had bad lag issues  .
Also leveling my own DH, with the bastion run.. 10k experience for a run that lasts no more than 20 seconds. (exploit pretty much, you don't have to kill anything, I am doing it with full red gear and 850 hp on act 3 nightmare)
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Does the Bastion run still work today?
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Whats a bastionrun exactly?
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On May 30 2012 06:21 Yacobs wrote:
Does the Bastion run still work today?
Yep, at level 35 I was getting about 40k experience per minute. (with +130 exp/kill and +19% exp gem in helm)
On May 30 2012 07:19 ihasaKAROT wrote:
Whats a bastionrun exactly?
When you hit level 25, have a friend kill diablo for you and then invite you act 3 quest 1 on nm. When you start the quest you have to go in a door to the right, and when you come out you are at a checkpoint, this is where you will restart at constantly to do the bastion run. It is a bit tricky and takes a few tries practice to get it right, but is very much worth it.
- space bar the convo of the guard that is there and wait for him to run ahead, then follow
- use whatever CC you have to lock down the mobs that storm in, and a cannon barrage will kill them all for you *
- make sure you get a hit in, otherwise they still die and you get good experience, but you will not get the Killing Blow extra experience and this makes all the difference in the world
- then run back to the door, exit (it is town area so no waiting needed), click resume and do it again.
The whole run takes about 15-20 seconds so you should be able to squeeze in 3 runs per minute. Use this to get to level 50, then have someone kill diablo for you and you can go do zultan kulle runs, or this again on hell to hit 60.
* with demon hunter i found the best way is to Vault ahead, place a slowing trap (caltrop), run back and shoot some chakras til they are all killed. Anything else tended to get me killed because you get there at lvl 25 which is really underleveled for the area.
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Meh I'm kinda sad how stupid the WD plays past act 1 on inferno. Yeah you can VQ bear act 2 and even though my gear is pretty good (45k dmg and 33k hp with a bad 800dps weapon and not including my Inna's Glory and Boj Anglers because of a nice bug ) if you make one little mistake in act 3 or act 4 you're done sooo frustrating~~.
I'm debating rerolling a wizard so I'd have awesome gear right from the get go.
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On May 30 2012 06:11 wintergt wrote:Best for HC is actually a barbarian. Survivability is key. Kungen did the world first inferno Butcher kill on hc with 2 barbs and 2 monks and they steam-rolled it. If you are going to spend so much time grinding out your gear, might as well do it on the most safe character imo. And I played my WD some more on inferno today. The glaring imbalance that is demon hunter DPS seems to become more prevalant, everyone in my games was actually talking about it (even a wizard) ! Sad to see how I bought a better weapon (up to 25k dps now) and still get out-damaged by the DPS classes with worse gear though. But I noticed something nice about WDs, how much my CC can really help the group on inferno. I have switched out Soul Harvest in favor of Hex, because that spell is just so good. And on many repeats whether or not I timed my CCs perfectly or not was the difference between breezing through the first phase of belial, or wiping there. Still not get to down him today though, my friend (DH who is in act 4) came to help me but he had bad lag issues . Also leveling my own DH, with the bastion run.. 10k experience for a run that lasts no more than 20 seconds. (exploit pretty much, you don't have to kill anything, I am doing it with full red gear and 850 hp on act 3 nightmare)
sure but obviously hc players look for a challenge. Playing a barb is being a pussy. The ultimate challenge is playing a caster on inferno hc.
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On May 30 2012 05:44 BurningSera wrote:the new inferno tactic for WD: + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEyk63UaBI4
not a new inferno tactic
that is the WD inferno tactic except with dieing involved
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On May 30 2012 10:19 diehilde wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 06:11 wintergt wrote:Best for HC is actually a barbarian. Survivability is key. Kungen did the world first inferno Butcher kill on hc with 2 barbs and 2 monks and they steam-rolled it. If you are going to spend so much time grinding out your gear, might as well do it on the most safe character imo. And I played my WD some more on inferno today. The glaring imbalance that is demon hunter DPS seems to become more prevalant, everyone in my games was actually talking about it (even a wizard) ! Sad to see how I bought a better weapon (up to 25k dps now) and still get out-damaged by the DPS classes with worse gear though. But I noticed something nice about WDs, how much my CC can really help the group on inferno. I have switched out Soul Harvest in favor of Hex, because that spell is just so good. And on many repeats whether or not I timed my CCs perfectly or not was the difference between breezing through the first phase of belial, or wiping there. Still not get to down him today though, my friend (DH who is in act 4) came to help me but he had bad lag issues . Also leveling my own DH, with the bastion run.. 10k experience for a run that lasts no more than 20 seconds. (exploit pretty much, you don't have to kill anything, I am doing it with full red gear and 850 hp on act 3 nightmare) sure but obviously hc players look for a challenge. Playing a barb is being a pussy. The ultimate challenge is playing a caster on inferno hc.
My take on this is that I would first make the safest character, so I always have someone you can farm with and fall back on, and then you make what you want. I did it like this on D2 also, first I made a hammerdin, he was my backbone character, after that came a sorceress, an amazon, etc.
On May 30 2012 10:04 unsaintly wrote:
Meh I'm kinda sad how stupid the WD plays past act 1 on inferno. Yeah you can VQ bear act 2 and even though my gear is pretty good (45k dmg and 33k hp with a bad 800dps weapon and not including my Inna's Glory and Boj Anglers because of a nice bug ) if you make one little mistake in act 3 or act 4 you're done sooo frustrating~~.
I'm debating rerolling a wizard so I'd have awesome gear right from the get go.
Yeah I did some act 3 and act 4 today, anything that hits me that isn't the weakest mob (fallen soldiers hitting for 20k) will either oneshot me or proc my Spirit Vessel. Fun. Pretty much every game I played act 2 and beyond in group evolved into a corpse hopping fest after meeting the first elite.
Btw I am amazed you get such a high DPS with such a relatively low DPS weapon. I am only at 25k and I already find it hard to upgrade any gear piece without spending millions. (my bank account currently is 246 gold)
On the note of weapons, today I actually went 2hander, bought me a crosbow with 970 dps. My reasoning (if anyone has some input because I am not sure this is the best idea) was:
- Splinter spam with a fast weapon drains my mana really fast and I need it to cast CC spells, a slower weapon will drain it slower, and it is still fast enough because of all my IAS to not be a bother in terms of attack animation
- I can reuse it on my demon hunter that I am leveling
- If I decide to make a wizard, this is good also because as a wizard you want a slow weapon as not everything scales with attack speed and the spells that do scale with it, just drain your mana faster for the same damage output
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On May 30 2012 10:04 unsaintly wrote:
Meh I'm kinda sad how stupid the WD plays past act 1 on inferno. Yeah you can VQ bear act 2 and even though my gear is pretty good (45k dmg and 33k hp with a bad 800dps weapon and not including my Inna's Glory and Boj Anglers because of a nice bug ) if you make one little mistake in act 3 or act 4 you're done sooo frustrating~~.
I'm debating rerolling a wizard so I'd have awesome gear right from the get go.
Thats actually not a bad idea. I sort of want to wait to see what balance changes are coming because WD has the potential to be very fun, but Wizards also appear to be very fun while having it much easier in Inferno...at least from the streams I've watched.
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I started using Spirit Walk (Jaunt) in A3 Inferno. Its best use for me has been running the hell away from elite packs and deaggroing them in some random area of the map that I'll never return to.
at least I'm making a little progress in A3 with my current gear which is good enough to kill trash
and I've gotten into the habit of saying "fuck you" every time I avoid a fireball from a blue flyer or goblin mage
my WD is also going to start transitioning to acquiring glass cannon gear. going to try to max Int on everything and screw Vit/Armor/Resist
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EPT
