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yomi flipped town, confirming his claim that he was making a play to get real discussion going.
yomi had only the minimum 7/7 votes to be lynched, however. By acting crazy in the beginning, yomi singled himself out; as my first theory of Maju getting thrown under the bus is wrong (maybe), it seems more likely yomi was to be that easy target to get bussed.
Some notes on yomi votes, may be more useful later in the game then now;
+ Show Spoiler +0-1 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
This seems highly unlikely. As a townie gaining so much suspicion early on, the mafia probably put him on their agenda and wanted to push us to mislynch him. Because of yomi’s early suspicion, early votes AGAINST him seem less suspicious as well. According to Midnight’s prelim vote count, some 6 hours before deadline, only 5 people had their vote on yomi, and not until somewhat close to the end 2 votes changed. As I previously mentioned, early votes against yomi would be less prone to suspicion, especially because there was a (so-so) case on him early on.
2-3 mafia votes for yomi lynch? + Show Spoiler +
Seems extremely likely. The duration of yomi’s erratic play, probably a little over a day, would surely be long enough for two scum to make a case against him, and vote so. (or one make a case and another simply cite their support of someone else’s). The majority of the mafia would need to vote for yomi as he had the minimum 7/7. And with enough town support, it would be favorable to have someone NOT voting yomi, as a safety-card for when yomi flips green (2 votes). There is then always the consideration all 3 mafia voted for yomi, but it would be unfavorable to tunnel vision the votes.
WIFOM? + Show Spoiler + (Am i using WIFOM right?) As I was looking at the votes and writing this, I wanted to look at 0, 1, 2, 3, votes individually. But I realized this would be circular logic because I’d be making too many assumptions about the mafia’s agenda. However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them. So some of my reads come from this likely motive.
That lead me to here....
some of my reads, and my reasoning
1. ArcticFox
+ Show Spoiler + First to vote yomi, but only after yomi has had enough time to make a case against himself. Also, he pressures everyone to vote yomi as the deadline approaches, insisting yomi’s play has been too scummy, and not acting erratically. Also, looking at his filter, I notice that AF posts are 1)plentiful, 2)insistent on good town discussion 3)provide pressure to lurkers 4)continously PRESSURES lurkers. And then this post + Show Spoiler + On April 25 2012 10:26 ArcticFox wrote:That quote *was* originally mine btw. It keeps getting credited to nreekay and I don't appreciate it. >.> Show nested quote +On April 25 2012 10:07 yomi wrote:
you are being way way way way too passive right now. post. a lot more. don't let anyone lurk. make them just post whatever's on their mind. this is SUPER stressful for mafia. mafia have to re-read their posts 10 times before posting and are super super careful about everything. making them have to give an opinion on everything is awful for a mafia. so punish (really punish, not just threaten) the lurkers hard and anyone that won't come out with near-constant lists of their reads on everyone and why. mafia hate hate hate that environment. on the other hand don't let it get super cluttered. just make everyone come out with frequent clear posts. last game you guys really almost had us on day 2. it was super scary how the posting was going. very organized, very clear, very concise. I just managed to discredit xatalos to win it but otherwise you guys had us made, many of the lists had 3 or 4 players picked of which 2 were mafia.
firm, aggressive, but reasoned and frequent posting is mafia's enemy. Really good advice that I don't want to go unnoticed. Our last game had over twice the amount of posting by this time, and it's hard to scumhunt when half the thread is inactive. He insists on being a strong pro-town voice and contributing to good town environment. strikes me as TOWN.
Insectoceanx
+ Show Spoiler +I originally read insectoceanx as probably town, but this was mostly because he had the same read on Zealos as me, that Zealos is scum. However, insectoceanx then is the final vote on a vote change to get yomi lynched. This wasn’t the suspicious part, as I woke up a little before the deadline to scope out the yomi vote count. Insectoceanx could honestly have wanted to see what yomi flipped, as yomi’s ending play wasn’t really enough to redeem him ( and people weren’t around to discuss this, myself included). But then he posts this; + Show Spoiler +On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
That is all I have to say about changing my vote to yomi, I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
While I have not posted often, what I have posted is a collection of my thoughts from everything going on. These thoughts have not been one liners or contentless.
imallinson does make me a little suspicous with his last post being a little recap of what everyone else has discussed without adding anything of substance, he then votes for yomi, which i don't know if he is just jumping on the bandwagon at the end or not.
I agree with imallinson's assement that fox is not scum.
I am unsure of everyone else besides that zealos seems really scummy.
Maju is hard to read as most of what he said is in defence to yomi's erratic voting towards him. This came shortly after Night 1 began. Over half this post is insectoceanx defending himself, (Not sure of the grammar of 1st clause), trying to divert suspicion onto imallinson / zealos. I can’t analyze it much further, but this post seemed overly anxious in defending himself. SUSPICIOUS
Imallinson
+ Show Spoiler + Bandwagon’d yomi, few posts.SUSPICIOUS
Oneplus
+ Show Spoiler ++ Show Spoiler +On April 24 2012 16:09 oneplus wrote:
@Maju, Nreekay got the same read as me on Yomi which he’s an idiotic towny playing scummy. We are not protecting him, we want to bring out the fact that this is a possibility on his play. We should think out of the box and evaluating all the possibility, it is too early to make comfirmation that "Yomi is a scum" yet in my point of view. I just want everyone to think twice before yomi.
Maju, suspecting someone who is not defending you is not a good town play. He was the main, only supporter of yomi. Whether or not this was a scum “oh I called it, I must be town” play, I’m not sure. But I do know that in the above quote, he includes me in his read of yomi as an idiotic towny playing scummy. But he seemed much, much more sure than I was (I mainly thought Zealos was safer lynch) I don’t see any reason for mafia to single themselves out this much, especially before yomi started revealing his accusation play. strikes me as TOWN.
Zealos
+ Show Spoiler +I had originally thought scum, 100%. Now I think he may have been caught up in yomi’s play. Zealos didn’t set Maju up for yomi to accuse. It seems, now, rather Zealos got swept into the play. And the more he got accused, the more cynical he got. But Zealos has neither come up with a defense nor indirectly done so by contributing. As yomi pointed out (RIP), Zealos has still been setting up Maju. I’m at 75% right now, so for now FOS
List
FOS
1. Zealos
2. Insectoceanx
3. Imallinson
Better be town
1. ArcticFox
2. oneplus
+ Show Spoiler + If AF and oneplus played us by using yomi, we’re all boned. + Show Spoiler + If one of them is godfather, we’re double boned gg, sad face
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There we go,
Our lovely townie yomi is dead and he did come out to prove his innocent in the few hours before the deadline, this is very sad for me as no one has come out and change his mind about voting on yomi. I guess among the 7 who has voted for yomi we will have 2 scum and the rest of 4 who didnt go for yomi we have 1 scum inside because I don't think 3 of them will be targeting yomi together this is abit too risky for the scum. Also there is a possibility of 1 among the 7 and 2 among the 4 which is less lightly to happen.
Lets have a summarize for 7 of them who voted for yomi:
insectoceanx -
He is the one who made this lynched successful as he change his vote from Zealos to yomi in the last 20 minutes because "he want to see yomi is town or not" This change in the last minute make him look so scummy and suspicious. But if he is red, he already knew that yomi will flip green soon yet he is still doing it which is a very risky play from the mafia. Yes this is risky but not impossible so he is still in the scum list.
Hold on, he is coming out to make an explanation of himself right after 7 mins the lynched is happened which he think zealos is still the most suspicious one. This is not convincing at all because you are trying to point finger at the no.2 scum list after the no.1 scumlist has lynched. Also, he is your previous vote. He did say that immalinson is abit suspicious and Maju is hard to read without much elaboration. So what is his purpose of this? Hopefully make someone got target next before him?
On April 25 2012 10:38 insectoceanx wrote:
Let's hear some more from the lurkers in the thread on the next day. I guess we shall see if yomi is town or not.
## unvote
## vote yomi
MajuGarzett -
He got chosen by Yomi randomly in the beginning which I think is kinda bad luck for him because we don't have a good reason for this. Now yomi is out and i had reread maju filter for a few times. Maju has been playing defensively as he is keep asking yomi what is the reason behind of voting him, most of his posts are reply to yomi or replying to those who are questioning him, if you guys realise he hasn't really contribute much yet other than defensive himself. He is trying to narrow down his conversation to a few people which look a bit scummy because as a scum you don't want to expose too much about yourself and you want to make fren with the town. Maju is trying to convince nreekay and insect to change their vote on yomi in an hour before the deadline.
On April 25 2012 09:45 MajuGarzett wrote:
@nreekay and insect
Both of you have had suspcions about yomi previously. Though I suspect Zealos of being scum as well, are either of you willing to change your vote to yomi? I voted yomi as I think that yomi's actions were indicative of mafia play while for Zealos it seemed to be more a lack of opinionated contribution for a good while. In my opinion yomi's mafia like actions were better evidence.
18 minutes after the lynched, he is the second one after insectoceanx who come out and apologize to yomi as he flipped green. And he has less suspicious on Zealos now which is the opposite of insectoceanx who feel zealos is still the most suspicous one. Immallinson is now his top candidates for mafia.
Mutant-
Well he voted for yomi because he think that yomi is pointless one-liner which i kinda agree until the last few hours before the deadline where yomi has started to contribute. Hence I don't see a strong reason for Mutant to vote yomi yet. Mutant has stated he haven't really wanted to discuss his other lynches yet and he won't list out his reads on everyone. I think it's time for you to voice up.
On April 24 2012 02:06 mutant wrote:
It's pretty much nothing but pointless one-liners.
And please, don't answer my questions with more one-liners.
##Vote: yomi
Immalinson-
He has only 2 posts so far and his 2nd has posted pretty late. His act is kind of following the trend which put yomi as top candidates and zealos for second which could not give us a good read about him. The main reason of voting yomi is the random aggressiveness of yomi towards anyone calling him out on it makes him much more suspicious. Also, the asking of everyone to post their previous game make immalinson feel strange and thinking that yomi is trying to act he is contributing but actually not, I have to agree with this. As you agreed yomi is not scummy yet you still go for him because he is a bad town play ?
On April 25 2012 04:01 imallinson wrote:
This has been mentioned by everyone else and seems to be the main reason for people voting for him. While I agree that it makes no sense I don't think it makes him scummy. Honestly I can't see a reason why scum or town would jump on someone so early. Given just this post I'd put it down to bad play. However the random aggressiveness towards anyone calling him out on it makes me much more suspicious.
Bear in mind Immalinson did bring out he and yomi are both scummate in the previous game. Also he think that I am abit scummy because i didnt say anything concrete.
On April 23 2012 19:09 imallinson wrote:
I'm not sure what to think of Yomi at the moment. He is posting in the same erratic way as last game, where we were both scum
St.Daniel-
He has some arguement with dream but he don't think dream is a scum and even if he is, there is not enough evidence to make a case. And lastly he voted for yomi. Looks like a lurker but I think he is too busy to post over here so nothing much to say about him since he has replaced by Gossemer.
ArcticFox-
A town read for me so far, as he is one of them who contributed the most so far. Also he is asking everyone to create a notepad file which will be useful for everyone. He is very active during the deadline and eager to persuade someone who are willing change their vote so a lynched will occur, it seem like he doesn't matter is Zealos or Yomi. Well i couldn't be disagree on this because he want to move a further step after lynching someone we will have more to discuss. His main reason on voting yomi it's WIFOM. ArcticFox do suspect both zealos and yomi because they don't suspect each others while they are on top of the list but now yomi has flipped green so what do you think about zealos? The only thing i feel abit suspicious about ArcticFox is he is too active at the deadline which could be either way. As a town he don't want a mislynch to happen. As a scum he want to lynch some townie instead of no-lynch.
ForTheDr3am-
Also a town read for me, his conversation is mainly with Dracolich70 where dream wants to emphazise that highlighting is scummy / pointless which I am agree with. And it make like you are contributing but actually not. Also dream couldn't get a satisfied answer from draco. Basically there are some useful statement and creative writing in both of their conversation.
The reason dream go for yomi is that he think that randomly voting from someone without proper explanation don't help anyone and it will offer mafia a free bandwagon which has already happened in yomi lynch.
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repost due to failquoting on other page, as it was near impossible to decipher.
On April 25 2012 04:15 MajuGarzett wrote:
On Dracholich70's accusation
I see a problem with this on multiple levels. First off, he offers consensus as the most important thing, but doesn't register that yomi is willing to bow down for this very consensus if it is as such.
I think I may be misunderstanding you here, could you clarify this please?
You being confused as to why he both talks about "not 100% sold on lynch", but adds "in case this is the consensus then I vote for Maju". You: " He says he isn't sure about lynching someone then votes when no one else has".
He asks for reasonable things from yomi - things he himself does not offer in return, when it comes to st. Daniel for the weak reason of him asking for help in a newbie game, much like he even did before Daniel, and I am "dumbfounded" as to why he did this.
The only thing I asked for from yomi was for his reasons why he voted for me. I explained why I said what I did about Daniel, did not vote for him, and am now not at all suspicious of him being mafia.[
He did, "I'm voting for you because you are stupid or mafia but you cannot be a good townie."; . You both gave weak reasons. Yours even weaker, because you target St. Daniel for the reasons of asking for help. Something you yourself did before him. You project your own actions onto others who do what you do, and call them suspicious, hence you would find yourself very suspicious. I do too.
Lastly, that on one hand he offers to Zealos that we should lynch someone, but then uses the exact same reasoning against yomi as suspect. If we should suspect yomi on these things, then it should be more so with Maju. At best Maju is hypocritical.
My case against yomi was that he stated he was unsure of lynching then proceeded to be the first one to vote, and then did not give reasons for his vote. I would have had no problems with his vote if he had given reasons.
He did give reasons. You just called him suspicious before he had a chance to give reasons. You yourself would have voted: St. Daniel, if it wasn't a newbie game. He also stated that: if the consensus is/was d1 lynch, then I would pick you for now(then). So in case it became consensus then he had done so.
Yes, I guess I was posting defensively. I did this not because I was mafia, but because yomi's was the first vote, and Zealos, one of the only others who had posted at that point, was accusing me of being scummy. I was fearful that yomi's ideas may gain traction early on so I was trying to highlight that your vote had no substance.". Why would he be fearful 1) as a townie. 2) That yomis near no-reason posts would gain traction?
To the first point, no one wants to die whether they are mafia or townie. Not only would dying be less fun on my part, dying on the first day would result in me losing experience in playing this game. Also, me dying as a townie would just be conducive to mafia victory. On the second point, two of the only people who had posted at that point were accusing me so I didn't want a bandwagon effect to occur. Because of this I pointed out yomi's lack of a substantial accusation as early as possible.
1)Mafia plays for survival, town plays for doing their part for as long as they can. You being afraid of your own survival, speaks volumes of you being a scum. Of course no one wants to die right of the bat, but being fearful of it, is another thing entirely. You even identify it as mafia play, when cornered, but try to add, but I am not doing it because I am mafia.
2) First off it is pretty funny considering, you were first to play the suspicious card of anyone, and on St. Daniel, and only giving the reason for not doing the Vote: St. Daniel, was due to it being a newbie game: "The only person who's shown signs of being something other than vanilla townie so far is St. Daniel as I'm unconvinced that a townie would need help so early. I don't want to vote yet though as since its a newbie game he might just want general help and has shown no distinct signs of being mafia.". There are two possibilities here: You really want to vote for St. Daniel because he either has a townie role, or you suspect him of being mafia for wanting help, without having shown anything mafia-like. Second reason is mumbo-jumbo. First reason is the mafia in you talking. Freudian slip? Anywhich way, it is pretty weak.
Secondly, apparently you showed no fear for St. Daniels life, when you were willing to throw him in front of a bus, and with you not having faith in other peoples judgments, on behalf of weak reasons(at least so soon), it seems like you hoped people would jump onto St. Daniel.
Soon after we find statements such as this: "Furthermore, you're pressuring people to lynch someone who you so far have proposed no case against and when many people have not yet posted. To me this hints at you being mafia as you just want to get someone who you know isn't mafia lynched as fast as possible.", "It is, I just wanted to get clarification on the source of Daniel's statement since it could help tell if dr3am is mafia.", "I just meant he might be mafia or he might be a detective or medic or something."(concerning lurkers, something he doesn't consider is on yomis mind), ": I realise I may have phrased that poorly earlier", "Yeah, I realise now that I didn't really think that through."
What was the point of listing my posts if you were'nt going to analyze them.
Yeah, you are right, I should have analyzed those as well. I was stupid in thinking they were self-explanatory. Here goes.
1. This is exactly what you did, when trying to throw St. Daniel in front of the bus, without most people having appeared in the thread. You even wanted lynch d1.
2. You don't trust a new players statements, hence not trusting your own, unless they can back it up with knowledge of the game from someone, then you do. Basically you are saying we shouldn't trust you.
3. You are giving away that you want to know if St. Daniel has a bluerole or not.
4-5. Is you trying to do damage control, realizing you have slipped up.
Actions of mine that you have used to say I am mafia have rightly been interpreted by others as my being an overzealous townie. I would also like to point out that Dracholich did not post any suspicions on me until I mentioned I was slightly suspicious of him and then proceeded to formulate a case against me.
I didn't really post anything on anyone, until it was time to do so.
I haven't made this up, you have said these things. I bet you are happy they think you are merely an overzealous townie, for your slip-ups. Well, I don't. And I think I have given very good reasons. If people want to use it or not, is up to them. I have done my part in explaining my vote.
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Good morning! Couple things to mention:
On April 25 2012 15:17 Gossemerr wrote:
Please don't do this. Post as much as you can. We need to be active if we want to make an accurate assessment on people's alignments. NOBODY should be worried about dying or saying anything that might get them killed. An active town discussion is what we need. Not posting allows the scum to just sit around without having to contribute.
So, lets get the discussion's, analyses, and POST-based cases going starting this night.
Welcome to the game, Gossemerr! God that was hard to spell. I'ma call you Goss so I don't have to spellcheck it every time I try to type it out.
In general, posting at night doesn't help town out a great deal. Anyone with a blue role should know by now what they're going to do, and mafia are discussing amongst themselves who they're going to shoot -- most of the time, any information given out during the night just helps them to make this decision.
However, the game has been so inactive thus far that I'm not entirely opposed to lurkers showing up and trying to make themselves useful, so long as the posting also continues into Day 2.
On April 25 2012 20:06 oneplus wrote:
The only thing i feel abit suspicious about ArcticFox is he is too active at the deadline which could be either way.
If you'll notice, hardly anyone was active at the deadline, except for me and yomi. In an ideal world, every single town would be active at the deadline. If the vote is already going scum's way, there's little reason for them to show up -- mislynch or no-lynch are both a success in scum eyes, though obviously a mislynch is better for them.
insectoceanx will be getting a lot of heat tomorrow based on that last minute vote switch coupled with his hardcore lurking. After posting exactly 2 things in the course of 2 days, only one of those being useful (a post making a case vs. Zealos and saying "yomi is acting very suspicious"), he comes in and does a vote switch after yomi was already starting to look much more townie in the last few minutes, then refuses to explain anything except:
On April 25 2012 11:07 insectoceanx wrote:
I think zealos is the greatest chance of being scum at this point but yomi is close behind and I changed my vote to him for the sake of getting a lynch.
Which he posted *after* the lynch already went through. It put me in a very difficult position, as I was the only one online (if you actually buy nreekay's post about being online exactly 3 minutes after the deadline came up, which I strongly have my doubts about) at the deadline, so it left it to me as to whether the yomi lynch passed or not.
It's kinda hard for me to fault him though...if yomi had posted something that useful even 2 or 3 hours sooner, with enough time to cycle through a few people who came online, we'd very likely be looking at Zealos' flip today instead of yomi's, as Zealos was certainly the stronger scum read at deadline. Again, I'm very disappointed in yomi's play that spent too long "setting up his trap" that nobody fell into and not enough time showing us that he was town. 
That will be my last comment on the yomi issue. We know his alignment now, and that's important.
Day 2's agenda will involve heavy pushing of lurkers and include a re-analysis of Zealos' behavior, including why he also decided to lurk instead of making himself useful at deadline when he was one of the top 2 scumreads for town.
Again, a much longer and more detailed analysis post will come near deadline (I've already posted more than I wanted to for a night cycle  ), in case mafia decides to take me out, so you'll have a baseline of my thoughts to work from. Lurkers, I would not be opposed to you making yourselves useful, as you will be the first ones I call out.
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I lurk at deadline as I am asleep during that time. It's gonna be like that for most days/nights, sorry about that. I agree that you should look over my posts so far if nessesary, and I am happy to respond to issues' - Provided I am awake at the time.
I would say, don't post too many big reads until right before the night deadline, so as not to influence the scum hit. That's what I will be doing.
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On April 26 2012 00:10 Zealos wrote:
I lurk at deadline as I am asleep during that time. It's gonna be like that for most days/nights, sorry about that. I agree that you should look over my posts so far if nessesary, and I am happy to respond to issues' - Provided I am awake at the time.
I would say, don't post too many big reads until right before the night deadline, so as not to influence the scum hit. That's what I will be doing.
So which is it? Will you be asleep at the deadline or will you be posting your scum reads right before the deadline?
Mainly because you haven't said anything in over a day, lurking on a day where you were on the hot seat for a lynch, I would be interested in hearing your scum reads relatively soon.
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Alright, because it might have been unclear, let me call out some names, in order of signup on page 1:
insectoceanx
Gossemerr (as St. Daniel's replacement)
mutant
zealos
imallinson
So far, the above list of players REALLY need to step it up and make mafia's job harder.
oneplus and nreekay are starting to post more, but I'm still keeping an eye on them, as they were more or less inactive for the first half of the game.
That means out of 11 alive players, Five are able to be picked out as lurkers for sure, and two are on the edge. That makes mafia's job of blending in so much easier. At bare minimum, 4 of these players (likely 5 or 6) have to be town. Until you start posting, there's no way to pick out the mafia from the town. I don't even mind you guys posting at night, because it would be posting something to work with.
What shouldn't be posted right now would be things like your strongest town reads, or instructions to blue players. That's information mafia will use to decide on their night targets. If you wish to use town reads to make your case, it would be more beneficial to town if you wait until close to deadline for this (there are few times I would publicly post a town read, the notable exception being if they're under pressure for a lynch and I'm almost certain they're actually town)
What SHOULD be posted right now -- your strongest scum reads. Anything you find odd about someone's play. Thoughts on yomi's filter, as he is our only confirmed town (concentrating more on the latter half than the earlier half, unless it's specifically about people's reactions to the first half). Thoughts on the arguments going on between Maju, Dracolich, and Dr3am. Thoughts on insects' last minute switch to yomi, and my and nreekay's reactions to it.
There are SO many topics to pick from, just pick something and start making a logical, reasoned case about it. If you're town, you have nothing to lose from posting like this -- not posting because you're afraid of looking dumb just makes it easier for the scum to hide in the shadows and not expose themselves.
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My Reads
St.Daniel/Gossemer
Hasn't posted much of anything and now is being replaced. I dont really have any reads, maybe townie because he hoped to be mafia and then quit when he wasn't or more likely he just didnt have time. Will be looking forward to hearing more from gossemer.
Dracolich70
He seems to be focused on pretty hard on Maju, in fact you have not questioned anyone else besides Maju and saying that yomi was suspicious. Your posts on him are very long and thought out this is good and all but the problem I see is you are not giving any attention to anything else. Also you keep bringing up his Maju's behavior in the first few posts of the game. Always going back to throwing st daniels under the bus, well it would seem you are now trying to place Maju there as well.I wouldnt be suprised if you kept up the attack on maju in the following day.
So basically lets see something else come out of you or you are starting to seem really scummy.
MajuGarzett
Maju has spent a long time defending himself and casting doubt on the lurkers. He hasnt really asked any questions or pointed out anything everyone else did. I don't really have a read on him as yomi was irrationally going after him from the start. I would place Maju in the same boat as dracolich, how do you feel about everyone else besides the people accusing you of things.
oneplus
Oneplus is a town read for me, his posts are constructive and points out with evidence how he feels about everyone plays.
nreekay324
Nreekay seems like a good town vote as well.
mutant
He shares my suspicions of zealos and is also suspicous of maju. Says he used to be suspicious of imallin, but now isnt. Could possibly be defending allin. Need more to get a better read, mutant lets hear what you have to say about everyone else.
This is a possible mafia.
ArcticFox
Seems town to me, calls everyone out on there post and hasnt focused too much on any one particular person. It was a little suspicious when he said he wanst going to be around to post until deadline in case he gets lynched, but after being called out on it has been posting more. If you werent going to be around you wouldnt be around, if you were gonna be around why wouldnt you just keep posting.
Zealos
Another person only targeting maju, otherwise he has not said anything at all. Zealos lets see what you have to say about everyone else.
ForTheDr3am
He was the 2nd person to jump on yomi.
It is bad to offer mafia a free bandwagon in case he actually is just a particularly unhelpful townie, but it seems that there is only one actual vote on him up to now, making me think that there are still people with an interest to keep him alive
Not exactly. I didn't mean to say that everyone who defends you automatically makes himself suspicious in my eyes, but that the fact that you weren't jumped on is a slight indicator that you are not a perfectly innocent townie.
These posts are troublesome for me. Seems you saw the oppurtunity to take town a townie and were upset that everyone wasnt voting to lynch him faster. I am leaning towards mafia here.
yomi
RIP
imallinson
only two posts, I still feel a bit scummy about him.
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Going back and reading through everything ftd had always seemed town to me, but now that yomi flipped green his past posts are very troubling. Right now he is my number 1 read.
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On April 26 2012 04:03 insectoceanx wrote:
If you werent going to be around you wouldnt be around, if you were gonna be around why wouldnt you just keep posting.
Simple answer here -- most of the advice I've gotten says and from my previous readings I've seen that not a lot usually gets done at night, so I typically avoid posting anything major at night to not give mafia as much information to work with. However, as thin as the posting has been, I reconsidered and decided that any move that would serve to make that discussion even *thinner* probably wasn't a good move. Thus, the increase in posting to try to spark discussion.
nreekay as town and dream as scum are interesting reads to me. I'd like you to elaborate on these for me if you wouldn't mind. Specifically, nreekay reads as a null to me, as there's not really enough information there for me to say either way (plus popping up 3 minutes after the deadline is extremely curious, and would lean more scum than town to me). Also, Dr3am is one of the more active posters we have in the thread (granted, nothing in the last 24 hours...which should say something about the thread activity level, if he's not in my lurker list....). With the hard stances he's taken on everything, and the not being afraid of asking people pointed questions, what specifically about his posting is troubling you enough to make him your #1 scum?
Thanks for contributing. It's a start! Let's get everyone involved and posting! Share that info!
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The two lines that I bolded out of his filter I thought could be a little telling. If he is red, he saw an opportunity in yomi as everyone else saw yomi as possibly scum, yet no one had voted for him yet so twice he made comments about how the fact that no one was voting for him seemed like he was scum. Perhaps he was worried he would lost an opportunity to get a townie lynched the first day.
FTD explain what you meant by those two bolded statements above and now that yomi is gone who do you suspect?
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On April 26 2012 05:40 insectoceanx wrote:
The two lines that I bolded out of his filter I thought could be a little telling. If he is red, he saw an opportunity in yomi as everyone else saw yomi as possibly scum, yet no one had voted for him yet so twice he made comments about how the fact that no one was voting for him seemed like he was scum. Perhaps he was worried he would lost an opportunity to get a townie lynched the first day.
FTD explain what you meant by those two bolded statements above and now that yomi is gone who do you suspect?
And your thoughts on nreekay? You've said you thought he was town, but have given no reasoning thus far.
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Looking through nreekays filter I don't see anything that stands out to make him not town, his contributions have been well thought out. After yomi rolled green I also like his assessment. He voted for Zealos and not Yomi. I didnt not get home from work until just before the end of day so if I had not changed my vote Yomi would (probably) still be around. If he was red I would have expected him to perhaps change his vote.
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I already explained to yomi that I meant to express my surprise at the fact that only ArcticFox had voted for him up to then, when I would have expected his post to have been jumped on harder. If you read my posts you will see that it was never the crux of my argument, I only mentioned it towards the end of my post and I only clarified to yomi with an additional post afterwards because he asked.
In retrospect the low amount of votes on him is easily explained by overall inactivity, but at that point I thought it was weird and worth at least noting.
Going from that to I am scum and want him lynched as fast as possible is quite a bit of a jump to make, and a rather weak basis to call someone mafia on.
I originally wanted to respond to Dracolich, but our discussion is going in circles and I would really like to hear the opinions of a few other people on him/those posts first. My highest scumreads from the day would have been Zealos and Dracolich, but on the other hand of the scale we still have half a dozen lurkers who barely/don't post.
There are a few things I want to point out on other people though.
@nreekay:
You have listed oneplus as strong townread for defending yomi. Not only is that an invalid reason because scum could just easily get cred for every mislynch, you also casually mention that you defended yomi yourself as well, one sentence before saying that singling himself out is something that mafia would not do. Not only is the latter part a baseless assumption again, he also wasn't exactly singling himself out when you said the same. (At least I did not have the impression that he was far more adamant about it than you, and even mentioned himself that he had lost confidence in him to an extent.)
You also assume that mafia would definitely try to get yomi mislynched. Once again, a baseless assumption at best, and I don't see why
However, I am convinced that the mafia worked to get yomi mis-lynched because yomi did so much of the mafia’s work for them.
doing mafia's work would be a reason for mafia to try to lynch him. Since all your reads have this as base, I find your analysis rather weak and would urge you to redo it.
@oneplus: You, too, take yomi's flip as cornerstone by only analyzing the people who voted for him, with apparently similar intentions to nreekay. I already gave my thoughts about that, and am particularly surprised that you don't give your thoughts on Zealos despite having voted for him. In first place, you basically said he was scummy for trying to say that people are scummy, which is an awkward explanation and something I'd ask you to clarify for me too.
@insectoceanx: I just responded to you already about my lines, but I also want to ask one thing. What classifies as "scummy" for you?
/I also like how you call nreekay's post well thought out.
@ArcticFox: I'm very thankful that you try to get the lurkers posting, but I am surprised you have not given a lot of your opinions on other people apart from that. I know, or rather feel, myself that it is hard though, and I hope your deadline post will shine more light onto that.
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On April 26 2012 06:57 ForTheDr3am wrote:
@ArcticFox: I'm very thankful that you try to get the lurkers posting, but I am surprised you have not given a lot of your opinions on other people apart from that. I know, or rather feel, myself that it is hard though, and I hope your deadline post will shine more light onto that.
It's entirely my intention. With the amount of lurkers we have though, I had no intention of quickly posting my scumreads and allowing an easy rewording of my thoughts/bandwagoning of my ideas. We have few enough original posts as it is. My current goal is to get discussion flowing so people have enough to talk to each other about in case I don't live through the night.
Plus, as it stood, with 10 other people alive, I had 7 marked as lurkers. It's really freaking hard to give opinions based off of that. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt, though, as the majority of lurkers by definition have to be town.
Furthermore, my views on who have been acting suspicious haven't changed much since yesterday's posting -- Zealos was aggressive then went into lurk mode, imallinson is still coasting with 2 posts, and oneplus's contribution since my pressure on him have been a bunch of summary posts with no actual meat or new ideas introduced. With the lurkers not contributing, it's hard to add any new analysis to that.
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EBWOP -- I do have new analysis to add of course, but I have nobody to take off the suspicious list, because they haven't done anything differently to change my mind on them.
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Well, I guess if I'm going to say that much, I might as well list out everything:
Zealos -- Still my top scumread. His first few posts were full of aggressive attacks, followed by a case on Maju that was a trumped up load of crap that Maju deflected fairly well, and his total contribution since has been a post to excuse his lurking. There's been flat out no analysis, just a bunch of attacks and excuses.
imallinson -- 2 posts -- one of which was a throwaway post, the other a useless list of obvious points and parroted cases that were already made. He needs to be pushed HARD to contribute something actually worthwhile.
oneplus -- As mentioned already, his only contributions have been a defense of yomi (while mentioning that he's acting like scum, but still calling him town), followed by a summary post. It's a bunch of useless throwaway while trying to say "I don't fluff my posts," while doing nothing but making a single fluff post in the last 24 hours. This guy reeks of scum right now.
@insectoceanx -- I still have my doubts about you based on how the yomi lynch worked out, but you've doubled your post count today so I want you to keep that up. Your reads for the most part boggle my mind, and have little to no reasoning behind them. It's another curse of doing list posting like that -- if you try to analyze every player of the game at once, you put pressure on nobody, scum really don't have to answer, and you give mafia a really good idea as to which townies are looking most townie. My best advice is to focus on your 1 or 2 best scum reads and make them answer every question you throw at them, while poking the lurkers with a stick to make them active.
Other issues --
nreekay's posting is apparently fooling some people into thinking he's saying something. He hasn't. He made a summary post on Zealos's actions. He showed up 3 minutes after the lynch and took a jab at yomi. He also pulled the same summary post deal that Oneplus did. It's useless. It's either a clueless town or complete scum move. He needs to be pressed tomorrow.
The Maju/Dracolich bullshitstorm that is swirling between them seems to me to be two townies reading too much into each other. The fact that nobody has really stepped in to take sides on it points to mafia not wanting to get terribly involved in it, and the cases themselves are full of nothing but air. I hope they stop the bickering and get back to the scumhunting.
You can consider anyone I don't mention to either be a town read or a null/lurker read.
At this point, add mutant to the lurker list, and move insectoceanx to the semi-lurker. Keep pressing everyone to post. Ask direct questions if you want direct answers, making long listy posts of your reads is generally pointless because scum feels no obligation to answer, while overzealous town feel like they have to defend themselves and you end up bickering amongst each other while the scum can sit back and laugh.
Specifically, if I am going to ask questions:
imallinson -- why should we not lynch you tomorrow? You've been 100% worthless to town so far.
oneplus -- Do you have any actual analysis to add? The list. summary, and parrot posts are scumtells to the core. Where are your actual cases?
zealos -- You've hidden long enough. Best scum read and why. And a real case this time, not the trumped up load of crap you tried to make stick to Maju.
lurkers -- STEP UP AND POST. Town has no reason to be afraid. Post loud and strong, and it will force the scum to not use lurking as a weapon.
Mafia are not winning this game so much as town is just pissing it away right now. Scum fears activity. Be active. We can't catch scum if we don't force them to do anything, and we can't force them to do anything while half the town is silent.
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EBWOP -- If there's any specific questions you'd like answered, like my reads on a player I didn't mention, or my perspective on a situation that I might have glossed over, I'd appreciate the question before the night ends. I'll be monitoring the thread and do my best to answer.
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Hello everyone,
I just got home from work. I'd like the opportunity to take the chance to make dinner, and then to have another read through of the thread.
Work has been a bit of a drain, and getting called a "fucking nutjob" yesterday put a huge damper on me wanting to put effort into this game.
I haven't had the opportunity to go through the thread with a fine-toothed comb after the lynch yesterday. After dinner, I'll gather my thoughts, go through the thread again, and post my strongest scum-reads.
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Day 2:
Eleven men went to their private offices last night. They locked their doors and poured their tea, jotting down notes and pacing deep into the night. The telephone lines and internet connections had been discreetly disabled, and without anything good on local television, they slowly drifted to a fitful sleep.
As the pale sun climbed behind an ashen layer of smog, the men returned to the conference room one by one, breaking their fast on 豆浆 and 烧饼. Though some of them might be killers, they were certainly all Chinese, and they muttered ominously into their 稀饭.
One man did not come down for his breakfast, nor did he answer at his locked door. The Minister of Agriculture frowned. "It is unlike the old fellow to oversleep. He still keeps the hours of his youth. We should check on him." The Vice President nodded, and the Minister of Security produced a key from his coat pocket.
nreekay324 was slumped onto his desk, and the contents of his first aid kit were scattered across the tiled floor. His skin looked flat and drawn under the fluorescent lights, and the Minister of Security hurriedly rushed to his side to check his pulse and eyelids. "Dead," he said, picking up a mostly-empty syringe from the desktop and scrutinizing its contents. "He was killed. An overdose of anasthetics, unless I miss my guess."
The Vice President brought the grim news back to the remainder of the Politburo as they returned to the conference room. "Three good men are dead. They served their nation and people well, and we must not fail them."
nreekay324, Town Medic, was killed!
It is now Day 2. The deadline is in 48 hours, 19:00 PST on 4/27/12. Remember to vote in this thread. Proper formatting is ##Vote: <NAME>
With 10 players alive, a majority of 6 is needed to lynch.
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oh dammnit.
gg. thanks midnight and GM for hosting.
gl town.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Lg9uQ.jpg)
