How Protoss can beat Flash - Page 11

EntertainMe

864 Posts

May 13 2010 18:16 GMT

#201

Someone said it before in this thread, too lazy to go back to quote: Flash is winning because he's a better player, not because he's terran.

He was asked only a week ago this question: Do you ever play in a team melee to practice? (One player doing all the eco/one player doing all the unit control)

Flash's answer? No. It's impossible to win, and I rather not practice that way only to lose my confidence.

That can be implied as in: Yes, you can beat Flash as long as you macro/micro better than Flash.
Not because youre terran, or zerg, or protoss. When you're better than Flash, you'll beat Flash.
Simple as that.

StylishVODs

Sweden5331 Posts

May 13 2010 18:18 GMT

#202

I think toss in general needs to toss in some 2base "bulldog" play into the equation in between their 12nexuses. Flash oftens seems to get his third up regardless of seeing protoss taking a third or not lately... But he's scouting really well with vultures so I'm not sure it'll work...

okum

France5779 Posts

May 13 2010 18:37 GMT

#203

On May 14 2010 03:16 EntertainMe wrote:
He was asked only a week ago this question: Do you ever play in a team melee to practice? (One player doing all the eco/one player doing all the unit control)

Flash's answer? No. It's impossible to win, and I rather not practice that way only to lose my confidence.

Which interview was this?

OneOther

United States10774 Posts

May 13 2010 18:45 GMT

#204

On May 14 2010 03:18 StylishVODs wrote:
I think toss in general needs to toss in some 2base "bulldog" play into the equation in between their 12nexuses. Flash oftens seems to get his third up regardless of seeing protoss taking a third or not lately... But he's scouting really well with vultures so I'm not sure it'll work...

yeah, that's what makes it much harder. flash's scouting and game sense are best of the best so he reads what you are doing exactly and adapts accordingly. lol i cant believe theres actually a discussion going on about using mind control vs flash. just no

Wings

United States999 Posts

May 13 2010 18:56 GMT

#205

they can't.

Gumbo

Canada807 Posts

May 13 2010 18:58 GMT

#206

IMBA TERRAN.

Gtks

Greece135 Posts

May 13 2010 19:19 GMT

#207

I did read some of your posts and i agree about the TIMED caltulated answers in 20 minuts Pro Game it makes no sense to speack about mind controll scvs, the maps are not big game hunters (endless minerals in 1 base), the players are not computers so forget it. But you can use mind controll to defend in most attack senarios you see a large number of vultures, goliaths, mines (they do even while the attack) to block the way of your zelots to the large numer of the siege behind in there is possible with some clicks (mind controll) and their siege can do splash damage to terran forces. In many maps your base is in high ground and the terran can't see a Red Archon even is in the edge near to his forces there is a good place that an attact like than can be possible with most chanses of success (beware 2-3 siege can blow you archon you will see the Red Ashes) Hallucinations can help you to move in a flat gourd to make possibe such an attack but with less chances of success and only one shot most of the times run back fast the other player will be pissed (see alote of his forces to dissapear by his own tanks) and will go after your Red Archon for sure.

But you will be mutch more better player if you know the build TIME all of your units, buildings and their cost, you see your minerals and you guss and you know i can build x goons y zelots in that time. It will very helpfull also to know how mutch time will take a Prob,Shuttle,Goon to go from one corner to the other (+-1 sec error) there for you can estimate "what units can i build in that time?". In the middle game will not make a mutch of a difference this knowlege but in a rass the timed calculted attack always wins. I gave a high quality information how you can create a Time Brake Window in a vulture, siege russ the problem is free din't use from the very beggin to produce the units that feet in this window probably he can't calculate fast "in this time what units can i have ready?" is a MUST. You can go for an 'early' Scout, 275min 125gass, 80 build time problem? Don't fix a second gateway or a 2nd nexus soon to do it faster, the goons upgrate can wait in order to 'force' him to do early Armory + Engineering, he can't chase the Scout with marines! (also 2-3 dark templars in diffent sides of the map can 'force' it) If you know the build time and the cost you may creat units that feet in that TIME you just won. You can use that example to creat beautifull TIMED problems from the beggin breaking a russ master plan. With some SHIFT + Clicks Free could enlarge the window. That was this is the best you can do you kidding me?

A bonus tip: I see to try to attack with alote of goons an expantion and the siege push you back pull them back 1 shuttle can drop a probe in the minerals gathering place the siege will fire at the first visible target will kill 1 probe and some terrans scvs with 3 probe drops (one after another) a siege can kill all the scvs for you, please bring more siege to protect and the other expansions (hehehe), you done from this expansion the Objective was to create a TIME to build 12-18 scvs problem go to the next one. 1 Corsair with Disruption Web upgrated can deactivate 2 Missile Turret, bankers for you, terran finaly need 3 missle tarrent near his minerals to stop a drop with a shuttle can be really helpfull.

An Arbiter can help you move to the next one faster and what i don't understund is why don't you using like that? The major problem of anyone is to relocate his units from one place to another and to assebly all his forces back to 1 place for a major push but it used for a suicide missions to kill the other players scvs (see the bonus above) you can make a fake attack to one expansion to pull back an Arbiter near to the next expansion can relocate (recall) your units faster. 2 arbiters to another location can assebly all the forces together for a major push. No other race has that capability to deploy the forces all over the map and to assebly them all 1 location really fast that gives a real advandage to Protoss in every case senario.

The Problem is any pro player playing with Flash is angst to keep up not beeing one click behind, may loose the game, need to build alote of units couse he can beat them with less, the maps don't have alote of minerals anyway, the use of these technologies need more hot keys (this is a real problem alt 1,2,3,4 is more easy the alt 5 is kind of a problem mostly the use the spacebar) and clicks and finaly may never see them to be used, there is not enough time anyway. Another think i like to add is i understund your agony it was mistake of me that i said these thinks about a MVP that won Flash and to expose him like that But i was pissed with some other fans that were saying about flash terrible things and his gameplay is always to nice. I mean sorry i must controll my nerbs. The truth is nobady will blame you if you loose, nobady will remember how bad you loose but if you win anybody will remeber it so you have nothing to loose really, Just go for it.

Bonus Tip 2: I need 3 Reavers fast cost 600minerals 300 gass Time 1.80 secs gass move the 2nd command center back (400 minerals) move the Singularity Charge back (150 minerals +150 gass) Ground Armor can wait also (100 minerals+ 100 guss) Ground Weapons can wait (100 minerals + 100 guss) calculations: 400 + 150 + 100 = 650 minerals gass 350 result (look mom no upgrates). You have 3 reavers in 1 minute and 80 sec. A zerg Hydralisk russ will turn into tragedy really fast and no casualties, you must 'hide' the reavers, not to fire, untill Hydralisk form a line to fire for sure resolts don't sent any zeolts will be killed from the Reavers (a line with goons the reavers behind one the left one in the middle and one the right can slow move untill to find their first target eatch attack button to move and click) else he will run back and no tragedy. The zerg player will 'forced' to make upgrade Lurkers fast you also won TIME & 50 minerals + 50 gass advandage for a next goon. How mutch time does it gets for a Shuttle to get in enemys base? How TIME does the Enemy (zerg) do have to rebuild the army of Hydralisks lost in the Tragedy? Does the Zerg has the minerals to rebuild? Can i use the 2 reavers to counter? if the (zerg) din't pre-calculate the possibility of the TRAGEDY and used minerals to expand lost the game ? calculate. Tragedy or not the Objective here was to Breake the Hydralisk russ and 1.80 sec TIME. The Point is i did the example without upgrades couse it can be stopped without upgrades!!?

The coming up Lurkers russ can be stopped with some Archons (you show it in a game many Lukers faild to protect a base from Archons attack), they are very effective even to the deffilers 'problem' and the Reavers (must be build early can protect a base with 3-4 goons infront only) but spear me the details ok? By the time zerg to do that you will have alote of goons upgrated (no casualties). The Objective to survive the types off russ with less or no casualties will lead you closer to win the game.

The bottom line if you really need to do something fast do the CALCULATIONS and do it what you will cut ? some upgrades or buildings find some balance you play protoss not me i just gave you the basic ideas.

SOS: Flash in 3rd game did push all the limits down 30 secs built TIME vultures so many all over the map no space left to protoss. The game is lost becouse of a pre-caltulated GAMEPLAN the most of them they play without it!!? Finaly i have to throu everything up to solve my pizza problems? What do you 'see' in a vod how many scvs are in the gass ? "looser" beck.

**** Zerg is so lame race that any idiot can take and do some wins wihtout even to see the map so i don't really care how 'good' is Jaedong is broing to see a match with zerg i almost never do. Protoss they are really powerfull but with expencive upgrates, units is alote of tricky to reatch a level "there is no unit that i can't fix fast" in order to have a chanse with Flash. In the end TvsT with Flash are more exciting matches and i like to see him play. ****

With Flash a good advice always is DO NOT piss him of. (point taken but with a real good player is better don't try a macro build that you will loose like a factory. He knows that i know, we 'speack' from my first post in this site a bit of a problem? i toled you fix a prive meeting)

Ps: I forgot the REAL problem of most players is their search of a pattern, a standard they read about in a web page and they using it by experience you can do some wins in many games the problem is they STICK TO THAT and you may find your self in a pro semi final with some luck but i call it "an accident" most of the times. Great possibility my TIME in here wasted, many Protoss will continue searching what 'standard' used Flash to beat you up, Cya in the next Flash game.

jalstar

United States8198 Posts

May 14 2010 00:15 GMT

#208

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37085901/ns/business-us_business/

‘Flash crash’ defies explanation so far

The top U.S. securities regulator said no single event had been found to explain Thursday's mysterious market plunge but the events were unacceptable and additional safeguards were coming.

even the stock market can't beat flash

peanutter

Australia165 Posts

May 14 2010 01:27 GMT

#209

Is this even economically viable for the toss late game? Assuming that you only want about 6-7 tanks it'll cost about CC 400 + B 150 + F 200x3 + SD 200-300 + Tank & Upg 150*6-7 ~ 2500 minerals and ~ 1k gas. Not to mention how long it would take to set up and where would the space come from?

LunarC

United States1186 Posts

May 14 2010 05:05 GMT

#210

Do what Nal_ra did.

Scarecrow

Korea (South)9174 Posts

May 14 2010 05:10 GMT

#211

Should go for more of a strategic play like (P)

Reach or

Nal_rA. The macrobots just aren't cutting it cause they're trying to beat (T)

Flash at his own game and he also outmicro's them. (P)

Stork is the only current toss with a decent chance imo.

LunarDestiny

United States4177 Posts

May 14 2010 05:12 GMT

#212

Protoss would want to switch race if they want to beat Flash.

Gnaix

United States438 Posts

May 14 2010 05:24 GMT

#213

lol, recall 2 DA once they mind control an scv. When you have that high tech, i don't think you should be making tanks

MageKirby

United States535 Posts

May 14 2010 16:10 GMT

#214

Unless you get really lucky and meet flash's scv line that is conga lining to a 3rd or a 4th witha DA, it would be very hard to sneak out an scv. And if I was a protoss, and is able to shuttle in 2 DA, I would rather shuttle in 4 HT and storm his mineral line, not steal 1 scv ;;

Gtks

Greece135 Posts

May 16 2010 07:34 GMT

#215

Pizza problem solved if you ask me can you beat Flash? No i can't i'm to old 38 for playing once i was unbeatable and if i loose some times i always found a way to never to loose again. If you ask me why i did helped Protoss players is it couse i seen to many defeats and nal_ra, stork looking for ducks, din't help the new kids.

When i said to some block your expansion exit they were lol at me but you seen it working vultures stopped with some pylons (gave the TIME to Protoss to bring some forces) breaking the other players moves from the very beggin can help to win the game. I will update the posts if i see more problems to Protoss players.