EPTactually the real way to beat flash is to be snow.
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How Protoss can beat Flash - Page 12
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Enderbantoo
United States465 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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moopie
12605 Posts
On May 16 2010 16:47 Enderbantoo wrote: Don't spoil results for others. | ||
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deathgod6
United States5064 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + "Being like Snow is the next step to being like water." - Super Daniel Man | ||
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jodogohoo
Canada2533 Posts
On May 16 2010 16:50 deathgod6 wrote: Recent game spoilers. + Show Spoiler + "Being like Snow is the next step to being like water." - Super Daniel Man oh man, super daniel man T_T, good times | ||
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Ryo
8787 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Snow on the other hand didn't choke. | ||
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Spyfire242
United States715 Posts
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Gtks
Greece135 Posts
Protoss they are realy powerfull but the expencive upgrades, units (2 scouts cost 1 carrier!?) makes the economy managment really tricky issue and big challenge to anyone there is no room for mistakes like that! Scout also needs 3 supplies 1 upgrade to be fast and 1 upgrade to see better but in 'large' numbers no air unit can match them if they have 2 Corsair as escort, in the ground can do slow but really good damage. The only argument of that is that flash splited some of his forces up to 10 o clock and open a smal 'door' for attacking but was it worth it? I don't think so (luck to that attack ? have that in mind may help you) Snow played really good but he could and MUST do better couse he hade alote of luck in the game. KT Terran players tryed to add a really 'early' Engineering while one of the Protoss Objective was to 'force' that move to Flash in order to win some TIME to build more units they made you an 'early' gift, also he went for an early second factory another 'early' gift to Snow!? Snow managed to have the Starport Earlyer that Flash the barraks and 1-2 zelots but the destruction of the banker that gave the edge of 100 minerals to Snow (Snow took advandage really nice there 1 zelot and 1 goon) were more on luck couse you have seen Flash if he really wanted to fix a banker to use 5-6 scvs infront (i toled to some protoss put some probes infront if they have to they lol at me) and 1-2 marines back with exelent play managed to fix a banker in your first expo!! Don't be mistaken to underestimate Flash gameplay the move to use the Arbiter to the expo and NOT to the main kept that edge to you. The Arbiter should have left the area faster for the next expo in the end its the only thing that can give you the "Time to get there in 0 secs" no other race can do it. The 1 extra hot key that needs Flash to scan the area may not worth, he moves the scvs first and you loosing the splash damage to the scvs from the siege and if you seen the scan move the Arbiter for the next expo fast. You can force 1 extra hot key to any Terran gameplay by puting 1 dark templar to any mission anyway. I mean some players looking for ways to make the other player use more hot keys during the conflict is not a joke. In order to make you fully understund imagine if you kill all the scvs in 2 diffent expo really fast, protoss can do that with 1 arbiter is what we were trying to do here. Don't destroy the command centers then a pro player will need 2 many clicks to make to diffent sides on a map to make the 2 expos ussable again (1 spacebar 18 csvs x 2 clicks to point them to minerals x 2CC) and calculate the TIME needed to be ussabe again, how many times will need to press the alt + x hot key to return to the battle. He may gg game couse he know he will be left BEHIND many clicks if you continue the pressure or he will tiered, this is the REAL outplayed. (Flash will kill me in the end hehehehe) This is Objective no 1 couse if you manage to do someting like that anyone will see his forces not to moved really good or not to moved at all for some TIME "he beat me allright but i made him suffer" is better than nothing. He will run to you to make the same damage but if you have the power to hold on (nice Snow did) you will put his mind into delema how far infront you are and how behind he is if you give him the Impression that your product is in level far away with some carriers (nice Snow did) and its impossible to catch on increases the possiblity to take the gg. Objective Take the edge, increasse the edge, make his mind impossible to calculate (lost inside of to many cliks) resolt comfussion, a good time for an attack. When his vultures found the exit of Snows expo blocked another move in his gameplan broken (i toled you do it and they lol at me) gave to the most pleople in forum to have the impression like Snow could predict all his moves and cansel of his plans from the Beggin so Flash maybe a little mad at me ? Acceptable. The point is If Flash change also his Objectives to that direction Snow will loose BIG time in the next game so be really carefull (pizza problems i hope no more heheheh) Ps: From the other heand is Flash wish to FAKE a defeat for reasons 'unknown' is better for all of us to stop thinking. I done From this forum. | ||
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nttea
Sweden4353 Posts
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LastWish
2015 Posts
And where is PvZ today? 5 hatch hydra builds, into muta builds... 4 gate 2 archon push is merely a good memory. This is what I'm expecting to happen in PvT as well, in time of course. Although Flash's real power comes in lategame, when playing against him most protoss are in disadvantage way before lategame. A new build order is to be discovered in order to gain proper midgame macro advantage. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
As long as you want to consistantly beat him, a strategy will not be enough. | ||
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Jathin
United States3505 Posts
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Loffeman
Sweden105 Posts
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Assymptotic
United States552 Posts
Throw in Arbiters when you're wealthy enough. | ||
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HTX
Germany265 Posts
On May 18 2010 03:15 Loffeman wrote: Alwasy wanted to see a Protoss mind control a vesse and then EMP the Terran's other vessels =) Or you can mind control his vessel then EMP the Terran scanner an recall DTs. | ||
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ilj.psa
Peru3081 Posts
On May 18 2010 03:59 HTX wrote: Or you can mind control his vessel then EMP the Terran scanner an recall DTs. terrans have at least 4 scanners at that point tho | ||
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SpiderWaffle
United States125 Posts
But I think there's also some underused arbiter tactics which could be just as effective: recalling speedlots onto seiged tanks- tanks are terrans most vauble resource and what ultimately let him when the late game by massing up enough of them. by killing 6-12 of them with a recall and 18-30 lots you delay the tanks from reaching critical mass a lot and if you do it a couple times he'll never be able to get enough to get a 4th base and will eventual starve out. hallucinated arbiters- free used this strategy effectively, it let's you get an arbiter past a vessell and a bunch of turrets. statising SCVs- I think it was movie or kal I saw use this strategy against flash on matchpoint at his 4th in the top left. Instead of losing 24 goons to try and take out a CC and usually fail, you can just cast 2 statises on the SCVs to stop almost all mining. Then you're only losing 1 arbiter if even. And you can produce enough arbiters to keep them statised when you have such an econ advantage. Eventually Flash will starve out if he's only mining from 3 bases and trying to defend 4 bases with only 3 mining won't allow for flash to push out provided 30 of your supply is occupied by building carriers. Another tactic I think is under-utilized against flash is proxy robo. Movie did this against flash in the last OSL finals and it worked wonderfully, flash even scouted it, it forced flash to get extra reaver defense a little bit earlier than normal and this cut into his army and allowed movie to expand earlier. At the point movie had 5 bases to flash's 2 he could have easily won that game with better arbiter tactics. And finally there's one timing attack that flash is vulnerable to every game that starts standard because flash will try to take his nat as earlier as possible with as little defense as possible. Kal's reaver harass into DT drop strat. | ||
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oo_xerox
United States852 Posts
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Gtks
Greece135 Posts
The psy storm damage is 112 for 4 secs. Siege has 150 hit points so will not kill them, Snow was succefull couse he managed to drop 4 and use them all together in a sigle shot before the siege will blow them up (a bit of luck also need it). The recal is better to be used to relocate the units than in suicide missions and the siege tanks are never alone (if you play with Flash) also calculate the clicks and the hot keys need it for the disruption web will help you all to understund that some moves you are thinking may not be possible in a pro game but then again you play protoss not i. Snow was so 'lucky' that the game was ALOTE of 'strange' if you understund what i mean. I demand the other player will give us his best always else we have no reason to think. For a example of pre calculated game is the first 4 mins of a BW game and i was thinking for an 'early' starport and some 'early' valkyries to save some 'early' minerals by building less 'early' missle turrent agains the Mutalisks but this will throw back the 'early' Academy always need it for the firebats are always needed it to protect against the zerglings, can take out 4 of them in a sigle shot, you see what i mean ? The "how do i survive from a russ" question must always be in your minds. Flash tryed it succefully and the bottom line is NO THEY DONT PLAY 14cc STANDARD. Snow is doing really good (i bet on him) but we need to see him 3 games in the row with Flash, PS Jaedong "Flushed down the toilet" if you want my oppinion about that games. | ||
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Soel
90 Posts
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Hidden_MotiveS
Canada2562 Posts
I didn't watch snow's game, but I think the whole DA strategy is somewhat interesting. If a protoss can somehow get an early enough dark templar with enough energy for a mind control, divert enough attention to tech to tanks, and then just play the macro game, they can get a 400/400 army whereas terrans will only get a 200/200 pop (assuming excess minerals and gas once they reach this point). This means that terrans will have to play offensively to keep their protoss opponent under 200/400 pop. As we all know, terrans suck at offense, especially against tanks. It basically means, that the game balance switches immensely in favor of a protoss if they can do this. Imo though, it's a cute trick, but it won't work a majority of the time, and will lead to more losses than wins. Perhaps there should be a cool strategy tournament for pros. Every pro must use an unusual tactic. Then the fans give them points for how much they liked it, and not specifically whether it won or not. 1. It'd be more entertaining to the fans 2. Potential of new strategies popping up | ||
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