EPTHow Protoss can beat Flash - Page 14
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CCGaunt
United States417 Posts
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writer22816
United States5775 Posts
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Love Trollin Nubs
Cuba8 Posts
OFC this won't work long term, but it would def shake up the PVT world for a bit. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
the hallucination/recall trick would be really helpful in getting a recall through, but even if you do get a recall off, it wont necessarily win you the game. | ||
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Pliers
Canada42 Posts
On June 04 2010 13:23 Subversive wrote: Sorry OP I don't believe this is feasible. I think Flash will timing attack before you get your tanks out. And even if you manage to get them out you're up again 3-3 tanks v 0-0 tanks. + Show Spoiler + Posts that I agree with: On May 13 2010 02:57 Djabanete wrote: + Show Spoiler + Last season: 1. Flash rolls all zerg players (Effort, Calm, Zero, Jaedong in BoX's, am I missing anyone?) 2. People wonder how zerg can ever defeat Flash. 3. Jaedong does it. This season: 1. Flash rolls all protoss players (all 6 dragons on kill list, Pure gets swatted) 2. People wonder how protoss can ever defeat Flash. 3. ??? Really, someone just needs to step it up, and I'm 99% sure that when they do, it won't involve mind control. On May 13 2010 02:23 Mekexi wrote: + Show Spoiler + I appreciate OP's effort, but I think there is much simplier and stronger answer: + Show Spoiler + USE THOSE RECALLS SMARTER, GODDAMN IT!! Seriously, Protoss players are like: - Recall 15-20 units into Terran main. - Kill Armory + some Vultures. - DIE. Why not...: ...Recall to defend distant bases? ...Recall Speedlots over Terran sieged army? ...Recall into enemy main -> kill Armories -> Recall back to safety? ...Recall + Stasis-at-choke combo? Few examples were already set, but I feel those techniques are criminally underused. On May 13 2010 10:30 dhe95 wrote: + Show Spoiler + If it takes flash such a long time to build up his tank count to 3-3 200/200, why are you making it seem like you won't take just as long? You have 1 cc, you need to build mass scvs in order to keep up with all the supply depot + factory production, and by then, it'll still take ages for tank ups to finish, in which you should be dead already. a couple of 0-0 tanks are just like adding some metal dragoons into your army. On May 14 2010 03:18 StylishVODs wrote: + Show Spoiler + I think toss in general needs to toss in some 2base "bulldog" play into the equation in between their 12nexuses. Flash oftens seems to get his third up regardless of seeing protoss taking a third or not lately... But he's scouting really well with vultures so I'm not sure it'll work... On May 14 2010 14:10 Scarecrow wrote: + Show Spoiler + On May 18 2010 02:39 StylishVODs wrote: + Show Spoiler + The way to consistantly beat flash is obviously to play better than him. A strategy like snow used might work a few times but remember that Flash is learning aswell. As long as you want to consistantly beat him, a strategy will not be enough. Also OP what is your current iccup rank? I'm not trying to insult you, I am just wondering because it seems this could only work at the lower levels, as SoManyDeadLings suggested. (Actually he said it only worked against opponents 2 levels or more lower than him. But same idea). C- toss but I don't see how this applies =S I've never used this strategy on iccup and I'm not suggesting this to iccup Protoss to do in the late game. I'm strickly talking about progamer level Protoss and vs Flash. The idea of utilizing DA's and mind control seems really gimmicky upon first glance, but if you were to look back in the thread I've covered the specific timing, late game setup, advantages vs the carrier switch and ways of getting the scv. I've read every comment in this thread and, thus far, none has suggested a reason so definite on why this strategy wont work; this is also the reason why I relentlessly advocate my idea. =P | ||
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Yamato
United States33 Posts
On May 14 2010 00:29 BlueApex wrote: or, you can wall off his scouting scv with 4 forges to mind control later. ^ this would be great, and plus you get super fast ups with 4 of them ^^ | ||
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Radison
Poland44 Posts
In late game, when you're maxed and your minerals start to skyrocketing - why not do this? Sacrificing a shuttle, DA, and one Arbiter Recall energy for an SCV feels a fair trade, considering the advantage it can give you. The late 200/200 supply mech army cannot be attacked head-on by either protoss or zerg 200/200 armies. But how about 200/200 plus 10 tanks to celar out mines, greedy vultures and supply depots Flash tends to build in the way? The most difficult part for this whole plan to work will be to complete building CC, i think. But with a well timed scv stole (right before faked attack for instance), some units and / or cannons left in the main to defend this SCV I think it could work. Of course somebody who does it should be able to survive that long against flash WITHOUT tank support, that comes only in the late, late game. Still some faster strategies to win needed I think. Timing pushes without arbiters or something like this maybe... | ||
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Gtks
Greece135 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124995¤tpage=11 Then the procedure is to watch what pro players can addupt in that kind of gameplay and who completed the Objective Snow is the one i spend time to watch in here, i also gave the explenation what really was the objective : http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124995¤tpage=12 How importand is to focus in that objective? He got it did it with diffent ways you can read about in here couse soon Snow will realize he can win nomatter what he is loosing: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124995¤tpage=13 What will use to do it ravers, dwebs in some cases no really matter. Finaly what i'm telling you if you focus to the objectives it is possible to win the games one after another really fast and noobady can really uderstund how and why. Fist i want to clear the zerg problem that many protoss pro gamers seem to have and then we gonna see about Flash. For me is not a problem if you dont understund i'm gonna see you in the next Snow game luck has nothing to do in the end. Ps: the point was we can't speack for mind cotrolling an scv anymore we hade enough of this 'idea' | ||
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machinehead..
412 Posts
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Gtks
Greece135 Posts
I Hope this threat will not be turned "Snow did that" forget flash for the moment Snow already is in a very good path. The 'drama' queen was kwanro see the vod with Snow is better and simple this way. PS: Yes Snow can beat Flash but i need Flash to play his best vs Snow the excuse "i was trying something funny" i say it was fixed Snow played good but come on.... | ||
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muta_micro
United States183 Posts
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Dagorath
Zimbabwe5 Posts
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DeathByMonkeys
United States742 Posts
Basically, Toss' need to stop relying on just arbiters in their late game composition and mix in HT's also. This is extremely gas heavy, one would need atleast 4 gas to be able to sustain constant arbiter and HT production. Ex: (Another example is Nony vs Idra in the TSL2 on Andromeda) If you watch this game you can see that Nada has a very large unit advantage at this point in the game and Jangbi overcomes this with flat out amazing storms. 4 HT (one shuttles worth) with energy upgrade and almost full energy is 12 storms, now this is enough to decimate almost any terran army, for 200 min and 600 gas. I believe this is the key for toss to take it to the next level; much more frequent and very well placed storms. Not only does it stop pushes in their tracks, but storm drops simply rape workers. I have no idea why toss' these days don't sacrifice a couple HT during any game over 15min and kill a large amount of SCV's with a simple storm drop. Flashes timing sense is spot on, but he will generally let a toss take it to late game if they play safe enough, so it's not impossible to get to a situation where you can pull this strategy off. Another advantage to this "strategy" is there isn't really a simple counter to it. It can work game in, game out. You can't vult snipe HT's/emp them when they're in a shuttle. Strategies like DA's might work in one game, but after you reveal this to a terran they'll know better the next game. I, by no means, actually want toss to start doing this because I'm a T player and Flash is my favorite player, but this is what I think would be the most effective way to combat him. | ||
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muta_micro
United States183 Posts
On June 05 2010 07:14 DeathByMonkeys wrote: Two words... Psionic Storm. Basically, Toss' need to stop relying on just arbiters in their late game composition and mix in HT's also. This is extremely gas heavy, one would need atleast 4 gas to be able to sustain constant arbiter and HT production. Ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_tBTS3CE8 (Another example is Nony vs Idra in the TSL2 on Andromeda) If you watch this game you can see that Nada has a very large unit advantage at this point in the game and Jangbi overcomes this with flat out amazing storms. 4 HT (one shuttles worth) with energy upgrade and almost full energy is 12 storms, now this is enough to decimate almost any terran army, for 200 min and 600 gas. I believe this is the key for toss to take it to the next level; much more frequent and very well placed storms. Not only does it stop pushes in their tracks, but storm drops simply rape workers. I have no idea why toss' these days don't sacrifice a couple HT during any game over 15min and kill a large amount of SCV's with a simple storm drop. Flashes timing sense is spot on, but he will generally let a toss take it to late game if they play safe enough, so it's not impossible to get to a situation where you can pull this strategy off. Another advantage to this "strategy" is there isn't really a simple counter to it. It can work game in, game out. You can't vult snipe HT's/emp them when they're in a shuttle. Strategies like DA's might work in one game, but after you reveal this to a terran they'll know better the next game. I, by no means, actually want toss to start doing this because I'm a T player and Flash is my favorite player, but this is what I think would be the most effective way to combat him. I agree with this completely, better storm usage could pay dividends for Protoss. Also didn't Nal ra in a semi recent interview say that better storm usage was what Protoss needs to focus on? | ||
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kekeque
Canada68 Posts
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HUNK1984
Malaysia22 Posts
On June 05 2010 07:14 DeathByMonkeys wrote: Two words... Psionic Storm. Basically, Toss' need to stop relying on just arbiters in their late game composition and mix in HT's also. This is extremely gas heavy, one would need atleast 4 gas to be able to sustain constant arbiter and HT production. Ex: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1u_tBTS3CE8 (Another example is Nony vs Idra in the TSL2 on Andromeda) If you watch this game you can see that Nada has a very large unit advantage at this point in the game and Jangbi overcomes this with flat out amazing storms. 4 HT (one shuttles worth) with energy upgrade and almost full energy is 12 storms, now this is enough to decimate almost any terran army, for 200 min and 600 gas. I believe this is the key for toss to take it to the next level; much more frequent and very well placed storms. Not only does it stop pushes in their tracks, but storm drops simply rape workers. I have no idea why toss' these days don't sacrifice a couple HT during any game over 15min and kill a large amount of SCV's with a simple storm drop. Flashes timing sense is spot on, but he will generally let a toss take it to late game if they play safe enough, so it's not impossible to get to a situation where you can pull this strategy off. Another advantage to this "strategy" is there isn't really a simple counter to it. It can work game in, game out. You can't vult snipe HT's/emp them when they're in a shuttle. Strategies like DA's might work in one game, but after you reveal this to a terran they'll know better the next game. I, by no means, actually want toss to start doing this because I'm a T player and Flash is my favorite player, but this is what I think would be the most effective way to combat him. Yeah, I sort of agree that. Psionic Storm can provide huge DPS for Toss Zeal/Goon heavy army. In fact you can incorporate HT whether in mid game where you have your arbiter tech late or late game when arbiter is coming out to boost the Toss army. The HT can load onto the shuttle to shield from the vulture snipe and EMP, and Arbiter can provide cloaking field to cover the HT to safely cast the storms. I think this is quite a powerful combo to combat Terran's mech army. The only problem is this is very micro intensive move. Which I doubt any progamers level will have any difficulty to pull that off. | ||
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Garaman
United States556 Posts
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alypse
2771 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
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