Hi all My name is Javier,i was a SC:BW 2v2 player,i played for teams like uT),iG,PurE),inF,NrT,iSS)..and . Im playing Starcraft 2 and ill stream all my 2v2 games.
Rankings: Beta : Top1 Rank 2v2 @World with ´Pabla´ 176-23 Season 1: Top1 Rank 2v2 @World with ´Wizards.eXeCuToR´ 521-125 Season 2: Top2 Rank 2v2 @World (Top1 EU) with ´Wizards.eXeCuToR´ 234-69 Season 3: Top2 Rank 2v2 @Korea with ´Axys.X´ 115-14 Season 4: Top3 Rank 2v2 @Europe with ´FnaticMSI.eXeCUToR´ 100-27 Season 5: Top2 Rank 2v2 @Europe with ´Wizards.AlaStOr´ 55-21 (In progress) PTSL Season #2: Top2 Competo #7 Winner: 3-0 vs Ai.DeathAngeL+Empire.Beastyqt
Really nice stream, good quality and ofc it's nice watching one of EUs absolute top 2on2-teams perform live! Would be happy if you got featured status soon, considering ProTech got it as well and you're most definitely on his level of 2on2.
PS: Sry for those pts. >< Keep fighting! :D ... and btw, any chance this gets moved to User Streams?
i would love to see this stream featured, i think many of the tl.net community like to see some highskilled 2v2 for an exchange of the 100000 1v1 streams out there. theese 2 are one of the best 2v2 teams in the world, prbly even better than protech and his allys
Tomorrow we will try to take back our top#1 world ! and now ill try to take the #1 with random ally also : )! Maybe i have other reppack for next Friday =]..thanks for ur support
I have new Twitter guys ;P . Here I will announce when im going to play with stream and ill upload ALL my 2v2 replays, Team Wizards replays (SC2CL div master) and Spain-B replays.
what up with a whole bunch of people creating a TL account just to post in this thread?
anyway, do you still play on US bc i know some pretty sick 2v2 couple wana have some legit practice. My friends has beaten few top 2v2 on NA b4 and our 3v3 MMR on NA is almost broken xD.
#NeverExpo , ofc i remember you too mate xD, we played a loooooot of clanwars xD nice to see you again xD
#NB Yeah,we play on US, but right now exe&me have work... and we dont have a lot of time to play together ><!!! anyway , u can send me a PM with the accouts of ur friends,would be good to play vs diferent people ;D
zerg terran teams fail. Would rather watch protech because he at least plays a different match up from time to time. Not to mention protech and power would own you ZT v ZT.
@aztecx well,last time we faced them we won 7-1 and he ignored me in game criying about hacks,he thought that we were Sorcery and his ally (i was streaming xdd) ,soo...i dont think ... and no,protech is not good imo,he is just bm and overvalued,and you can ask any top 2v2 player about this and they will agree with me . Aristeo+Cubert,Drewbie+Catz or LucifroN+VortiX are better Z+T teams for sure =P (And also exe and me)
Btw,we are playing now P+T and Z+T, and i play random race when i play with random ally,so...sry xd
@EtherealDeath i played for PurE) in iccup like 3 years ago,but only for iccup-cl 2v2..and sometimes 1v1 ;P.. was nice to play with players like Beckham,PJ,Legendary,RushGOon,Phoenix...xddd imba chineses players xd
On August 09 2011 00:19 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: @aztecx well,last time we faced them we won 7-1 and he ignored me in game criying about hacks,he thought that we were Sorcery and his ally (i was streaming xdd) ,soo...i dont think ... and no,protech is not good imo,he is just bm and overvalued,and you can ask any top 2v2 player about this and they will agree with me . Aristeo+Cubert,Drewbie+Catz or LucifroN+VortiX are better Z+T teams for sure =P (And also exe and me)
Btw,we are playing now P+T and Z+T, and i play random race when i play with random ally,so...sry xd
@EtherealDeath i played for PurE) in iccup like 3 years ago,but only for iccup-cl 2v2..and sometimes 1v1 ;P.. was nice to play with players like Beckham,PJ,Legendary,RushGOon,Phoenix...xddd imba chineses players xd
you just commited blasphemy...protech not that good?! hehe
On August 09 2011 00:19 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: @aztecx well,last time we faced them we won 7-1 and he ignored me in game criying about hacks,he thought that we were Sorcery and his ally (i was streaming xdd) ,soo...i dont think ... and no,protech is not good imo,he is just bm and overvalued,and you can ask any top 2v2 player about this and they will agree with me . Aristeo+Cubert,Drewbie+Catz or LucifroN+VortiX are better Z+T teams for sure =P (And also exe and me)
Btw,we are playing now P+T and Z+T, and i play random race when i play with random ally,so...sry xd
@EtherealDeath i played for PurE) in iccup like 3 years ago,but only for iccup-cl 2v2..and sometimes 1v1 ;P.. was nice to play with players like Beckham,PJ,Legendary,RushGOon,Phoenix...xddd imba chineses players xd
never not once did you EVER 7-1 me and power. You might have beaten me and tehredbandit cuz ZZ is terrible, but you never ONCE 7-1'd me. In fact, the score was EVEN w/ redbandit and me and power are FAR over you in the score. I ahve been dominating you guys on EU with random teams as well, so dont go around saying shit that isnt true.
On August 09 2011 00:19 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: @aztecx well,last time we faced them we won 7-1 and he ignored me in game criying about hacks,he thought that we were Sorcery and his ally (i was streaming xdd) ,soo...i dont think ... and no,protech is not good imo,he is just bm and overvalued,and you can ask any top 2v2 player about this and they will agree with me . Aristeo+Cubert,Drewbie+Catz or LucifroN+VortiX are better Z+T teams for sure =P (And also exe and me)
Btw,we are playing now P+T and Z+T, and i play random race when i play with random ally,so...sry xd
@EtherealDeath i played for PurE) in iccup like 3 years ago,but only for iccup-cl 2v2..and sometimes 1v1 ;P.. was nice to play with players like Beckham,PJ,Legendary,RushGOon,Phoenix...xddd imba chineses players xd
never not once did you EVER 7-1 me and power. You might have beaten me and tehredbandit cuz ZZ is terrible, but you never ONCE 7-1'd me. In fact, the score was EVEN w/ redbandit and me and power are FAR over you in the score. I ahve been dominating you guys on EU with random teams as well, so dont go around saying shit that isnt true.
what? we just played 2 days in NA looong time ago and we raped u (u said that we are maphackers xD) .. ,and our score vs you in euro is maybe like 10-2? but i dont really care about my wins vs you in europe..because playing random ally is really hard. /clap for you. Anyway u are a good 2v2 player, but u are sooo bad manner.....gl hf~
Amazing job guys, u are a really well oiled team that is a joy to watch. I really hope u guys can take it down against protech now. GL in this game and in the future
^--- Exact reason why this stream should never get featured. Now that we know team wizards was stream cheating throughout the entire tournament there should be ZERO reason they should get featured, and it's also a reason why our games vs them was not a complete and utter walk over.
I really hope TL.net does not feature this stream, because stream cheating is complete nonsense.
Watching the stream now, currently at the third game. Really nothing so far. If refering to the lyote - why should they kill that and then try to swap EXACTLY when the first stalker comes? That's nonsense. Killing critters is kind of normal, dancing when being streamed seems more funny than anything. How many times have Tastosis been talking about ppl watching the stream just because they said X and X happened? Would be nice to have more than a simple remark if you come with such an accusation.
Protech did win but i wouldnt agree with him saying they cheated which is only reason is wasnt a complete utter walk over. Protech common son, these are the same kids you accused of being sorcery when they where utterly walking all over you and bandit. Give them some respect at least as being a top team and you won so just means you were better that day, Both of you are top teams respectivly.
Agree 100% CCow its suspicious but team wizards dont need to stream cheat. It was a good series but Team Wizards hasnt played much lately while its the complete opposite for protech. Power is so good to
On September 06 2011 09:47 CCow wrote: Watching the stream now, currently at the third game. Really nothing so far. If refering to the lyote - why should they kill that and then try to swap EXACTLY when the first stalker comes? That's nonsense. Killing critters is kind of normal, dancing when being streamed seems more funny than anything. How many times have Tastosis been talking about ppl watching the stream just because they said X and X happened? Would be nice to have more than a simple remark if you come with such an accusation.
There's a delay in the stream genuis. Why do you think they didnt kill the lyote and dance on the lyote until after about 15 seconds ?
On September 06 2011 09:55 NrT.RuSH wrote: dont say anything. Its probaly better Also i dont think he understands english to good protech. he can type it but dont speak it.
You're backing them up for no reason. I know you're not an idiot terry, you do play with sorcery so thats pretty dumb. Listening to that broadcast is 100% obvious that they were listening to the stream while playing in the tournament. You can't explain what they did otherwise.
I don't see any reason for you guys trying to go against me now. It is more than unreasonable to come with such an accusation based upon ONE single incident.
-IF they streamcheated WHY did they let the stalker block the swap? -IF they streamcheated WHY wouldn't they get more bunkers in the last game?
ProTech was lucky on more occasions than them PLUS the incident he is accusing them for has no impact on the game whatsoever. Why should I CHEAT for ZERGLINGDANCE? And then when I can win the game easy by just making 2-3 bunkers try to swap to let Power block it?
Plus, please notice what happens JUST 15 SECONDS AFTER the casters talk about the siege-tech beeing halfway done! ProTech+Power charge all-in for the addon. Streamhacks? I doubt it. Still more reasonable indicator than the lyote. Really.
he's saying you were listening to the stream, the casters said something about a lyote blocking one of your buildings and since the stream is delayed your team heard the comment later on in the game and then the partner used his lings to kill the lyote and then he /danced
Killing lyote is not an issue, but why would he /dance
why do you guys keep talking about the stalker blocking the swap? I've already explained it, there is a delay in the stream. That is exactly why they didnt kill the lyote and dance the lings until 10~15 seconds AFTER the casters started mentioning it.
So when you talk about the stalker blocking the swap that has nothing to do with whether they were stream cheating or not. You're not gonna be able to stop a stalker from delaying your swap if you dont see it on the stream 10~15 seconds before it actually happens.
Your arguments are not valid, they were stream cheating throughout the entire tournament it's 100% obvious just based off that little clip displayed.
You can use the stream to know when the factory is finished and asume they will lift it, then block it
If you don't know about the exact delay-time you should stop using that as an argument, as its totally unreasonable ... if you just stretch it far enough you can acuse everyone for anything you want...
Protech..If you are good in 2v2 but you're no big deal .. you and we can all win and lose and you're not going to be the exception. Seriusly stop rage kid and more play =)
Still you are only basing your accusation on this one completely minor incident. If you claim they streamcheat the whole tournament it would be quite nice if you could back it up with something more. They could really easy know about your (semi) all-ins both games you win. Why shouldn't they turtle way harder? Especially the last game. Why don't they keep scvs at the ramp before you charge in? Why doesn't IeZa make his spines earlier? If you want to accuse them for something like this you should really have some kind of PROOF. This is not even CLOSE to that.
Accusing anybody for cheating, hacking or anything like that without solid proof is not very good mannered. Really it isn't. They way you are doing it makes it even worse. IeZa is trying to get featured status and you, who has it, comes here with "herp-derp don't give it to them". IeZa and eXe are one of the absolute best teams worldwide. Why do you explain them not EASILY winning both games against you when cheating? It's not like they don't beat you on ladder without it. Wizards played many a tournament so far where they could have won by cheating. They didn't win them all though. ... This just makes me mad. -_-
well for me there isnt any proof ... so it has to be in dubio pro reo killing a lyote wich was blocking the wall as the casters mentioned isnt a big deal. dancing after killing a lyote while 5k ppl watching it is always fun
i played wizards quite often and i know iezal likes to dance (i.e. killing reactor with slings in tz vs tz=dance on your ramp etc.)
overall the situation is suspicious, especially cause executer is a known hacker from bw but when you say its proofed they streamcheated the entire tournement you should give more than one suspicous action which could be just a funny action by those guys, especially cause you are known of accsusing of calling other players hackers for no/small reasons ;-)
I think its bullshit that people stream cheat during an event like that, you talk about me growing up then some of you people need learn morals. The stream doesnt need to be featured, i'm not saying that wizards are bad players, but they stream cheated during the tournament, thats not acceptable in my opinion. Therefore, the stream should not be featured. It's like saying hey, let's feature Combat-EX-'s stream or if Deezer streamed: let's feature their stream cuz they're GM's. They dont, and won't because they stream cheat constantly. I feel like it's the same situation here.
I think someone needs to tell Protech the story of The little boy who cried wolf.
........You cry wolf so many times no one is going to believe you anymore.
These are ridiculous and harsh undeserved accusations and totally unfair to the Wizards team....And all Protech is trying to do is boost his ego because he should never be able to lose.
On September 06 2011 10:23 ProTech wrote: I think its bullshit that people stream cheat during an event like that, you talk about me growing up then some of you people need learn morals. The stream doesnt need to be featured, i'm not saying that wizards are bad players, but they stream cheated during the tournament, thats not acceptable in my opinion. Therefore, the stream should not be featured. It's like saying hey, let's feature Combat-EX-'s stream or if Deezer streamed: let's feature their stream cuz they're GM's. They dont, and won't because they stream cheat constantly. I feel like it's the same situation here.
Who talks about anybody growing up? You just don't seem to grasp what it means to accuse people for cheating. You need SOLID PROOF.
Btw, know watching your stream. Who do you think you are to shittalk ppl on TL like this? Saying people have downsyndrom, are retards, dumb, ...it's really offensive.
Reguardless if they were stream cheating or not, the fact of the matter is there is no way to 100% prove it unless they admit it, or consistantly have games where they do things out of the ordinary that you should only know if you scout it. Until they make tournaments like PTSL as a LAN there is no way you can stop stream cheating, unless of course the tournament isn't being streamed. It's quite sad and unfortunate, but there really isn't any other option to prevent it.
Protech, you won the tournament, even "if" they stream cheated. That's You are a well know 2v2 player that is respected. You may not get the viewers you deserve on your stream just because the 2v2 scene is still unknown to the majority of the community. It's unfortunate that you have to deal with stream cheaters and hackers, but honestly do you not think people like Destiny, Minigun, Dragon, Idra (when he streams), Catz, etc., have to deal with it in 1v1? You would be naive to think otherwise. There's no stopping it unless you delay the stream by at least 2 minutes. Consistantly accusing and calling people hackers is just going to make a bad name for youself. Manner up, if they do cheat they are trash and you know it. Make a legitmate claim on the hacker thread and leave it at that. Don't escalate it past that, it only puts your name in the mud.
Wow! xD First of all, thanks ProteCh for spam in my thread...was a nice publicity ♥
Sincerely,i think that these accusations are very enterteining and we should receive them with laughs and plaudits guys,but anyway thanks for defending me xD
Guys take note, do not kill panthers, or you will be accused of doing traps! I believe that they are on the verge of extinction hahaha!
Also dont dance with ur lings,they dont like it! (Btw i did /dance with my lings almost since the first game vs Newbcake-team xD)
Now talking seriously,you should give thanks to god that we had to play the tour at 7:30 AM.
One more time,congratulations for ur 1st place, u guys did a good job.
Regards, IeZaeL.
Edit: Pls guys,stop the war here,let him to do what he wants,anyway thanks for the defense ♥♥
Watching the PTSL, I was betting on PowerTech on taking the tourney. I watch his stream now and then so I have a slight idea on how they play.
Since I don't follow the 2v2 community too much, I did not know who you were at first. I saw your team get knocked into the losers bracket after the first round. But watching a couple of your games, I realized that your team played really well and it proved to be so when you crawled out of that losers bracket and straight back up into the finals.
The finals was a pretty epic series, aside from the casting. It was as close as close can get. Next time you play against PowerTech, difficulty might be slightly harder though.. unless Power randoms Zerg 50%+ of the time again.
As for the whole accusation issue, why don't you just tell them the reason why you killed the lyote and danced with the zerglings? It might have been stated earlier in this thread but I haven't gone through all the posts yet.
About the accusation,i cant defense myself about something that stupid :S! xD I can understand if he accuses me for doing "X" or "Y" BO but we did horribles bo's vs them,like 14pool vs ZZ in scorched... 10pool vs ZP in The constructor... losing vs 2 stupids cheese in games #3 and #5.... How you eat it? xddd!
Btw, like i said, i did /dance with my lings since the game #1 in the loser bracket xD (I cannot believe that I have to defend myself for things like this xddddd ,does someone think that if I listen this in a stream with 5k-10k persons i would do it?) COME ON,LOL! xDD
On September 06 2011 11:48 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: Thank you very much itzjohnny
About the accusation,i cant defense myself about something that stupid :S! xD I can understand if he accuses me for doing "X" or "Y" BO but we did horribles bo's vs them,like 14pool vs ZZ in scorched... 10pool vs ZP in The constructor... losing vs 2 stupids cheese in games #3 and #5.... How you eat it? xddd!
Btw, like i said, i did /dance with my lings since the game #1 in the loser bracket xD (I cannot believe that I have to defend myself for things like this xddddd ,does someone think that if I listen this in a stream with 5k-10k persons i would do it?) COME ON,LOL! xDD
Plz guys stop this xdd!
The more you play Protech the more he will think you`re cheating.
Taken completely out of context. I was referring to BROOD WAR when I was 10 years old.
And furthermore why in the hell would i stream that, if I was trying to hide something. I stream 100% of my games, vitamin and sorcery do not(for a reason) Anyway, this will be my last post to stop this stream from being featured. They were watching the stream while playing the tournament, if you can't see it, sorry, but it's 100% true.
EDIT: Also, team wizards needs to explain why the killed the lyote and danced as the caster were talking about it.
Taken completely out of context. I was referring to BROOD WAR when I was 10 years old.
And furthermore why in the hell would i stream that, if I was trying to hide something. I stream 100% of my games, vitamin and sorcery do not(for a reason) Anyway, this will be my last post to stop this stream from being featured. They were watching the stream while playing the tournament, if you can't see it, sorry, but it's 100% true.
EDIT: Also, team wizards needs to explain why the killed the lyote and danced as the caster were talking about it.
Indeed, why would they intentionally show they're stream-cheating if they had the intention of winning while "trying to hide something" (their cheating methods).
See that cheap parallel I'm making to establish a common sense?
Explain why they killed a creature that had no effect to the game or the overall result?
hihi guys (and ProTech ♥) i just made a new reppack with all my PTSL games and all my ladders games of today after one month of inactivity,u can dl it here:
No one needs to explain anything. Because there is nothing to explain. You go here and whine about something completely random. That stuff happens several times every day at GSL or any other major tour, that there is any random comment followed by a random action. The probability of such things happening once is kind of big.
You and Power attacking the techlab researching siege, canceling it at 98% or something in the last game is pretty much the same, random, thing.
You will need like 5+ of such incidences per game before they are anywhere near a proof.
The biggest thing YOU aren't adressing is why Wizards wouldn't use the "cheat" to win, rather then to entertain the viewership. This just makes zero sense and really takes away everything from your accusation.
It makes me more than sad seeing a featured streamer accusing anyone with such rubbish. Your flaming of TL-members on your stream made it even worse.
On September 06 2011 13:13 -WizardsIeZa- wrote: hihi guys (and ProTech ♥) i just made a new reppack with all my PTSL games and all my ladders games of today after one month of inactivity,u can dl it here:
[url blocked]
Thank you!
You are confused, I am not accusing you of hacking. I am accusing you of listening to the casters during the tournament which would give you an upper hand. I know you dont hack, as I've played you before. What I want is a reasonable explanation as to why you decided to kill the lyote and then dance after doing so AS THE CASTERS ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.
If you provide a good explanation then I will take back everything I have said in this thread.
On September 06 2011 13:15 CCow wrote: No one needs to explain anything. Because there is nothing to explain. You go here and whine about something completely random. That stuff happens several times every day at GSL or any other major tour, that there is any random comment followed by a random action. The probability of such things happening once is kind of big.
You and Power attacking the techlab researching siege, canceling it at 98% or something in the last game is pretty much the same, random, thing.
You will need like 5+ of such incidences per game before they are anywhere near a proof.
The biggest thing YOU aren't adressing is why Wizards wouldn't use the "cheat" to win, rather then to entertain the viewership. This just makes zero sense and really takes away everything from your accusation.
It makes me more than sad seeing a featured streamer accusing anyone with such rubbish. Your flaming of TL-members on your stream made it even worse.
On September 06 2011 13:15 CCow wrote: No one needs to explain anything. Because there is nothing to explain. You go here and whine about something completely random. That stuff happens several times every day at GSL or any other major tour, that there is any random comment followed by a random action. The probability of such things happening once is kind of big.
You and Power attacking the techlab researching siege, canceling it at 98% or something in the last game is pretty much the same, random, thing.
You will need like 5+ of such incidences per game before they are anywhere near a proof.
The biggest thing YOU aren't adressing is why Wizards wouldn't use the "cheat" to win, rather then to entertain the viewership. This just makes zero sense and really takes away everything from your accusation.
It makes me more than sad seeing a featured streamer accusing anyone with such rubbish. Your flaming of TL-members on your stream made it even worse.
My zerglings were poking in and out of the front of their base, they made a tech lab as a part of a wall. If it's flashing green, then you attack it. We attacked the front of their base BASED OFF THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD FROM MY UNITS POKING THE FRONT OF THEIR BASE. 1 BUNKER, NO UNITS we were doing an all in build. So don't fucking sit there and say that our attack was suspicious. Whether or not siege mode was complete mad zero difference in our attack. It's not like a siege'd tank was going to stop what we were doing anyway.
I want someone to explain to me why as the broadcasters are talking about the lyote, they kill it, then dance. I mean you seriously have to have down syndrome not to find that awkward in the least. Give me an explanation ( and NO someone msging you will not work because as per PTSL RULES you are supposed to be set on BUSY mode so you shouldn't be getting msgs from people during the game so that won't be valid. )
And I want you all to understand something:
The reason I am pursuing this, is because I don't think it's fair. If they were in fact stream cheating, then why is OK for them to get prize money, whereas if they weren't cheating, the outcome could have possibly be different. The way I see it, is if they were stream cheating that is potentially STEALING someone elses money who WASNT cheating, and they in fact deserved it.
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
edit: LOLWOW
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
Nonsense. The lyote wasn't in the way of ANYTHING. So you're telling me that with a bunch of money on the line, you're not taking it seriously, killing a lyote? Your reason is not valid.
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
Nonsense. The lyote wasn't in the way of ANYTHING. So you're telling me that with a bunch of money on the line, you're not taking it seriously, killing a lyote? Your reason is not valid.
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
Come on, just let it go. It's so petty and sad.
It makes no sense, if you're cheating and money's on the line, why would you be so blatant with how you cheat? That's twice you list rationale and logic, but when it comes to the "crime", you seem crazed and ignore all obvious notes of common sense.
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
Nonsense. The lyote wasn't in the way of ANYTHING. So you're telling me that with a bunch of money on the line, you're not taking it seriously, killing a lyote? Your reason is not valid.
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
Come on, just let it go. It's so petty and sad.
It makes no sense, if you're cheating and money's on the line, why would you be so blatant with how you cheat?
What's your reasoning behind that?
Petty and sad? It's obvious stream cheating, and someone else deserves team wizards prize money.
If the money is so important (which you value and maybe they don't as much. People having different values is not something new to either of us), why tell everyone they're cheating by doing something so trivial?
If you have the intention of winning, why make it so blatant that you're cheating, forfeiting your chances?
Show another instance that he's clearly cheating.
Petty and sad in my opinion. There isn't much to go on and even if they are cheating, you're not making a strong case to prove it.
On September 06 2011 13:15 CCow wrote: No one needs to explain anything. Because there is nothing to explain. You go here and whine about something completely random. That stuff happens several times every day at GSL or any other major tour, that there is any random comment followed by a random action. The probability of such things happening once is kind of big.
You and Power attacking the techlab researching siege, canceling it at 98% or something in the last game is pretty much the same, random, thing.
You will need like 5+ of such incidences per game before they are anywhere near a proof.
The biggest thing YOU aren't adressing is why Wizards wouldn't use the "cheat" to win, rather then to entertain the viewership. This just makes zero sense and really takes away everything from your accusation.
It makes me more than sad seeing a featured streamer accusing anyone with such rubbish. Your flaming of TL-members on your stream made it even worse.
My zerglings were poking in and out of the front of their base, they made a tech lab as a part of a wall. If it's flashing green, then you attack it. We attacked the front of their base BASED OFF THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD FROM MY UNITS POKING THE FRONT OF THEIR BASE. 1 BUNKER, NO UNITS we were doing an all in build. So don't fucking sit there and say that our attack was suspicious. Whether or not siege mode was complete mad zero difference in our attack. It's not like a siege'd tank was going to stop what we were doing anyway.
I want someone to explain to me why as the broadcasters are talking about the lyote, they kill it, then dance. I mean you seriously have to have down syndrome not to find that awkward in the least. Give me an explanation ( and NO someone msging you will not work because as per PTSL RULES you are supposed to be set on BUSY mode so you shouldn't be getting msgs from people during the game so that won't be valid. )
And I want you all to understand something:
The reason I am pursuing this, is because I don't think it's fair. If they were in fact stream cheating, then why is OK for them to get prize money, whereas if they weren't cheating, the outcome could have possibly be different. The way I see it, is if they were stream cheating that is potentially STEALING someone elses money who WASNT cheating, and they in fact deserved it.
You don't seem to understand my point. I never in any way said anyone was cheating. Because I don't think anyone did. The lyote was annoying, so they killed it. The casters talking about it was just random. Just as the casters talking about the siege. It is random.
And as YOU are the person accusing THEM,YOU should get some valid proof before THEY have to explain ANYTHING.
On September 06 2011 13:15 CCow wrote: No one needs to explain anything. Because there is nothing to explain. You go here and whine about something completely random. That stuff happens several times every day at GSL or any other major tour, that there is any random comment followed by a random action. The probability of such things happening once is kind of big.
You and Power attacking the techlab researching siege, canceling it at 98% or something in the last game is pretty much the same, random, thing.
You will need like 5+ of such incidences per game before they are anywhere near a proof.
The biggest thing YOU aren't adressing is why Wizards wouldn't use the "cheat" to win, rather then to entertain the viewership. This just makes zero sense and really takes away everything from your accusation.
It makes me more than sad seeing a featured streamer accusing anyone with such rubbish. Your flaming of TL-members on your stream made it even worse.
My zerglings were poking in and out of the front of their base, they made a tech lab as a part of a wall. If it's flashing green, then you attack it. We attacked the front of their base BASED OFF THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAD FROM MY UNITS POKING THE FRONT OF THEIR BASE. 1 BUNKER, NO UNITS we were doing an all in build. So don't fucking sit there and say that our attack was suspicious. Whether or not siege mode was complete mad zero difference in our attack. It's not like a siege'd tank was going to stop what we were doing anyway.
I want someone to explain to me why as the broadcasters are talking about the lyote, they kill it, then dance. I mean you seriously have to have down syndrome not to find that awkward in the least. Give me an explanation ( and NO someone msging you will not work because as per PTSL RULES you are supposed to be set on BUSY mode so you shouldn't be getting msgs from people during the game so that won't be valid. )
And I want you all to understand something:
The reason I am pursuing this, is because I don't think it's fair. If they were in fact stream cheating, then why is OK for them to get prize money, whereas if they weren't cheating, the outcome could have possibly be different. The way I see it, is if they were stream cheating that is potentially STEALING someone elses money who WASNT cheating, and they in fact deserved it.
You don't seem to understand my point. I never in any way said anyone was cheating. Because I don't think anyone did. The lyote was annoying, so they killed it. The casters talking about it was just random. Just as the casters talking about the siege. It is random.
And as YOU are the person accusing THEM,YOU should get some valid proof before THEY have to explain ANYTHING.
Innocent before proven guilty exactly.
You're not guilty unless there is valid proof, not coincidental or a one-time thing.
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
Nonsense. The lyote wasn't in the way of ANYTHING. So you're telling me that with a bunch of money on the line, you're not taking it seriously, killing a lyote? Your reason is not valid.
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
Come on, just let it go. It's so petty and sad.
It makes no sense, if you're cheating and money's on the line, why would you be so blatant with how you cheat?
What's your reasoning behind that?
Petty and sad? It's obvious stream cheating, and someone else deserves team wizards prize money.
You are revealing yourself to be exceptionally stupid. Basically, you've suggested the following narrative:
i) Wizards stream cheats. ii) While stream cheating, they perform build orders which are countered by your build orders. They do not appear to adjust based on caster commentary. iii) They hear the commentators talking about a lyote and decide to blow their cover by killing the lyote and dancing. They gain no strategic advantage but risk revealing that they're cheating and severely damaging their reputation.
And that somehow makes sense to you? Also, bonus stupid points for using an argument that applies with even more force to Wizards ('oh why would I ever reveal that on stream if I was trying to hide it?')
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
Nonsense. The lyote wasn't in the way of ANYTHING. So you're telling me that with a bunch of money on the line, you're not taking it seriously, killing a lyote? Your reason is not valid.
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
Come on, just let it go. It's so petty and sad.
It makes no sense, if you're cheating and money's on the line, why would you be so blatant with how you cheat?
What's your reasoning behind that?
Petty and sad? It's obvious stream cheating, and someone else deserves team wizards prize money.
You are revealing yourself to be exceptionally stupid. Basically, you've suggested the following narrative:
i) Wizards stream cheats. ii) While stream cheating, they perform build orders which are countered by your build orders. They do not appear to adjust based on caster commentary. iii) They hear the commentators talking about a lyote and decide to blow their cover by killing the lyote and dancing. They gain no strategic advantage but risk revealing that they're cheating and severely damaging their reputation.
And that somehow makes sense to you? Also, bonus stupid points for using an argument that applies with even more force to Wizards ('oh why would I ever reveal that on stream if I was trying to hide it?')
Thankyou, yes. This exactly (minus the "stupid" accusations).
Protech if you believe wizards stream cheated then point out other instances of them doing so. Dancing after killing the animal proves nothing. Why would they dance and draw attention to it? Most cheaters would be very afraid to accidentally show anything that could be used as proof of their cheating. So what possible motivation would they have to dance if they were cheating ?
Also if they were so careless as to slip that they were cheating there surely there would be many other instances of their cheating throughout the tournament. So how about instead of yelling non stop about the same point over and over again you actually provide some other examples as evidence.
Yeah just don't take it too personally. He's getting owned on his stream right now by well mannered Grand Master players and accusing them as well.
Stop trying to troll MannerChomp, he never got owned by anyone in GM. If by GM you are referring to Baz he lost to Baz I think once last night(DeSaix's mass immortals instead of colossus ring a bell?) and won vs him 3-4 times? I think you are just a bit on the sour side he stopped your cannon rushes all night.
Anyway, this needs to stop. Protech, you're just dragging your name through the mud by pursueing this any further. You took one example of fishy behavior in Wizards gameplay and jumped right to assume they are stream cheaters consistantly. You spoke earlier about how the video of you saying you tried to hack back in 2008(?) on Brood War and couldn't get the thing to work, saying that it was taken completely out of context. I feel like that is exactly what you are doing here. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm still a fan. You should let this one go though.
Yeah just don't take it too personally. He's getting owned on his stream right now by well mannered Grand Master players and accusing them as well.
Stop trying to troll MannerChomp, he never got owned by anyone in GM. If by GM you are referring to Baz he lost to Baz I think once last night(DeSaix's mass immortals instead of colossus ring a bell?) and won vs him 3-4 times? I think you are just a bit on the sour side he stopped your cannon rushes all night.
Anyway, this needs to stop. Protech, you're just dragging your name through the mud by pursueing this any further. You took one example of fishy behavior in Wizards gameplay and jumped right to assume they are stream cheaters consistantly. You spoke earlier about how the video of you saying you tried to hack back in 2008(?) on Brood War and couldn't get the thing to work, saying that it was taken completely out of context. I feel like that is exactly what you are doing here. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm still a fan. You should let this one go though.
How am I trolling? I am refering to Kyhol and Gatored.
I am just speaking the god awful truth. So many people are wrongfully accused of cheating by this guy and it's ridiculous wrap to have And to also have all of Protech's fan boys from his stream spamming you and calling you a cheater is annoying, when most of them are gold and have 0 game sense.
Lol how would i be sour when losing to him with my off race last night? When I beat up on him with my ZERG ^_^
And you're talking about the game where Desaix had 3x the Army of Protech cuz he decided to 1 base roach rush on tyardor keep by himslef vs a T/Z?????
Yeah that game rings a bell.... OFC HE went back on his stream and blamed desaix for that game and you one of his fan boys agreed with him... When in fact it was his own fault. Come on now don't be so easily influenced.
I dont give a shit if im dragging my name thru the mud if you people cant see they were stream cheating during the tournament then i feel really sad for you.
Obviously the reason you cast a tournament via replays is so this kind of shit doesnt happen and you know for 100% fact that its going to happen and it did.
Your IQ level is horrific if you cant see it in that link i sent, THX.
Yeah just don't take it too personally. He's getting owned on his stream right now by well mannered Grand Master players and accusing them as well.
Stop trying to troll MannerChomp, he never got owned by anyone in GM. If by GM you are referring to Baz he lost to Baz I think once last night(DeSaix's mass immortals instead of colossus ring a bell?) and won vs him 3-4 times? I think you are just a bit on the sour side he stopped your cannon rushes all night.
Anyway, this needs to stop. Protech, you're just dragging your name through the mud by pursueing this any further. You took one example of fishy behavior in Wizards gameplay and jumped right to assume they are stream cheaters consistantly. You spoke earlier about how the video of you saying you tried to hack back in 2008(?) on Brood War and couldn't get the thing to work, saying that it was taken completely out of context. I feel like that is exactly what you are doing here. Don't take that the wrong way, I'm still a fan. You should let this one go though.
I never said anything about hacking in 2008, the VOD vitamin posted is taken completely out of context. I was referring to hacking when I was 10 years old in brood war, when I couldnt figure it out.
ieza freaks out if i even message him while they are on their teamspeak 2v2 channel because it makes a little sound that disturbs them. i ve also lurked a bit while they were playing ladder once, they communicate and think a lot during their games, no way they would change their routine to try to cheat, seeing how great of a team they prove to be in ladder and clanwars. btw i didnt watch the video but i can tell you 100% sure they dont even know the word lyote if thats what was said on stream. ive played a shit ton of games in 4v4 with him, just fucking around, having fun, and he would totally do that even in a competitive environment, hell, huk even does hearts and writes stuff with pylons in LAN events... now it just looks like im defending my teammate right? actually im quite sad because they had an offer and our team is pretty much dying, and i cannot stand letting my friend go, but he's still my friend so i stand up for him. so basically im just saying "these guys are legit recruit them please" while all i wish was their staying in the team, if this doesnt prove im sincere, then no idea what else you need. gl amigos @@-
Looks to me that Protech doesn't want competition in the "featured" 2v2 streaming department and is putting together a conspiracy theory to undermine them.
Yeah it seemed like they were cheating from an outside perspective?
Who could blame them though, Protech/Power had their vent on the stream, so we could all hear what their plan was the entire time. The other team didn't. At a few points, after they suspected the other team of cheating, they started calling out fake builds, or at least deviated heavily from what they said they were going to do, and you know what? It paid off.
Why did they 10p vs Z random on that huge map?
It was suspicious, but not proof. And the solution in the future is to simply not allow voice chat in the stream, that's incredibly stupid.
So to sum up;
Protech has no valid proof of cheating, just circumstantial evidence, which is strong.
Wizards has not even attempted to defend themselves. All of their arguments have been invalid, as have the white knighters.
1.Vitamin for example, a known and admitted hacker (not the person you want vouching for your "legitness") 2. Not pointing out a number of instances does not mean they are not stream cheaters 3. Saying they can't be cheating because it was too dumb to do that as casters were talking is also 100% invalid excuse. People make mistakes, even in Starcraft, even at a high level.
So, again, so far, no valid excuses for the actions, and no proof. Good times.
Also Mannerchomp sucks at this game. I carried him so badly last night and he's so immature and worthless that you'd rather he ragequit at the start when 2/3 times he doesn't pull his main race.
On September 07 2011 07:52 RinconH wrote: Looks to me that Protech doesn't want competition in the "featured" 2v2 streaming department and is putting together a conspiracy theory to undermine them.
The worst part is he even think that his "argumentation" is irrefutable... He only keeps saying the same idea in not so much diverse ways... Bring up proof of the WHOLE tournament as you state. Untill then, PLEASE TL get TeamWizards to "featured" so we have a little more choice when we feel like watching high level 2v2. (Btw ProTech, even though I'm banned from your chat because ONCE my opinion didn't match yours, I'm still enjoying your high level 2v2. I guess my IQ isn't too low since I acknowledge your skills as a 2v2er =)
On September 07 2011 08:00 JustTray wrote: Yeah it seemed like they were cheating from an outside perspective?
Who could blame them though, Protech/Power had their vent on the stream, so we could all hear what their plan was the entire time. The other team didn't. At a few points, after they suspected the other team of cheating, they started calling out fake builds, or at least deviated heavily from what they said they were going to do, and you know what? It paid off.
Why did they 10p vs Z random on that huge map?
It was suspicious, but not proof. And the solution in the future is to simply not allow voice chat in the stream, that's incredibly stupid.
So to sum up;
Protech has no valid proof of cheating, just circumstantial evidence, which is strong.
Wizards has not even attempted to defend themselves. All of their arguments have been invalid, as have the white knighters.
1.Vitamin for example, a known and admitted hacker (not the person you want vouching for your "legitness") 2. Not pointing out a number of instances does not mean they are not stream cheaters 3. Saying they can't be cheating because it was too dumb to do that as casters were talking is also 100% invalid excuse. People make mistakes, even in Starcraft, even at a high level.
So, again, so far, no valid excuses for the actions, and no proof. Good times.
Also Mannerchomp sucks at this game. I carried him so badly last night and he's so immature and worthless that you'd rather he ragequit at the start when 2/3 times he doesn't pull his main race.
TeamWizards are SPANISH dude. They write in english but hardly speak it. That explains the NO voice chat ranting of yours... I agree with you on the point that allowing the audience to hear the voice chat is not appropriate for a tournament involving money prize. This should be removed in the next PTSL imo.
Since when circumstancial evidences are "strong" ?? It's only a coincidence... PLUS, IeZaeL is on a team (TeamWizards is a small EU team) at the moment, so if he cheats, he gets kicked out of the team. Not advantageous, right?
On September 07 2011 08:00 JustTray wrote: Yeah it seemed like they were cheating from an outside perspective?
Who could blame them though, Protech/Power had their vent on the stream, so we could all hear what their plan was the entire time. The other team didn't. At a few points, after they suspected the other team of cheating, they started calling out fake builds, or at least deviated heavily from what they said they were going to do, and you know what? It paid off.
Why did they 10p vs Z random on that huge map?
It was suspicious, but not proof. And the solution in the future is to simply not allow voice chat in the stream, that's incredibly stupid.
So to sum up;
Protech has no valid proof of cheating, just circumstantial evidence, which is strong.
Wizards has not even attempted to defend themselves. All of their arguments have been invalid, as have the white knighters.
1.Vitamin for example, a known and admitted hacker (not the person you want vouching for your "legitness") 2. Not pointing out a number of instances does not mean they are not stream cheaters 3. Saying they can't be cheating because it was too dumb to do that as casters were talking is also 100% invalid excuse. People make mistakes, even in Starcraft, even at a high level.
So, again, so far, no valid excuses for the actions, and no proof. Good times.
Also Mannerchomp sucks at this game. I carried him so badly last night and he's so immature and worthless that you'd rather he ragequit at the start when 2/3 times he doesn't pull his main race.
Known and admitted hacker? Lol... please do not make up random lies.
On September 07 2011 08:00 JustTray wrote: Yeah it seemed like they were cheating from an outside perspective?
Who could blame them though, Protech/Power had their vent on the stream, so we could all hear what their plan was the entire time. The other team didn't. At a few points, after they suspected the other team of cheating, they started calling out fake builds, or at least deviated heavily from what they said they were going to do, and you know what? It paid off.
Why did they 10p vs Z random on that huge map?
It was suspicious, but not proof. And the solution in the future is to simply not allow voice chat in the stream, that's incredibly stupid.
So to sum up;
Protech has no valid proof of cheating, just circumstantial evidence, which is strong.
Wizards has not even attempted to defend themselves. All of their arguments have been invalid, as have the white knighters.
1.Vitamin for example, a known and admitted hacker (not the person you want vouching for your "legitness") 2. Not pointing out a number of instances does not mean they are not stream cheaters 3. Saying they can't be cheating because it was too dumb to do that as casters were talking is also 100% invalid excuse. People make mistakes, even in Starcraft, even at a high level.
So, again, so far, no valid excuses for the actions, and no proof. Good times.
Also Mannerchomp sucks at this game. I carried him so badly last night and he's so immature and worthless that you'd rather he ragequit at the start when 2/3 times he doesn't pull his main race.
Looks like u didnt see IeZaeL games in the tournament, since he 10pooled almost everytime at non shared bases...
On September 07 2011 08:00 JustTray wrote: Yeah it seemed like they were cheating from an outside perspective?
Who could blame them though, Protech/Power had their vent on the stream, so we could all hear what their plan was the entire time. The other team didn't. At a few points, after they suspected the other team of cheating, they started calling out fake builds, or at least deviated heavily from what they said they were going to do, and you know what? It paid off.
Why did they 10p vs Z random on that huge map?
It was suspicious, but not proof. And the solution in the future is to simply not allow voice chat in the stream, that's incredibly stupid.
So to sum up;
Protech has no valid proof of cheating, just circumstantial evidence, which is strong.
Wizards has not even attempted to defend themselves. All of their arguments have been invalid, as have the white knighters.
1.Vitamin for example, a known and admitted hacker (not the person you want vouching for your "legitness") 2. Not pointing out a number of instances does not mean they are not stream cheaters 3. Saying they can't be cheating because it was too dumb to do that as casters were talking is also 100% invalid excuse. People make mistakes, even in Starcraft, even at a high level.
So, again, so far, no valid excuses for the actions, and no proof. Good times.
Also Mannerchomp sucks at this game. I carried him so badly last night and he's so immature and worthless that you'd rather he ragequit at the start when 2/3 times he doesn't pull his main race.
It's cute that you basically admit to having no evidence in your second point. The only claim that's been made is a highly dubious one about the lyote kill, and most of the people in this thread have rightly dismissed it by using common sense.
Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
On September 07 2011 12:39 Kyhol wrote: Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
Take everything he says as if it wasn't said.
Hey Kyhol, he might have said that by mistake but I can assure you a good 50% of his losses are from a bunch of kids cheating him. I've been on his team when its happened. He even matches Deezer in 2s ladder now and they snipe him. They might even be map hackers. However me and him have been RT teammates and lost to TERRIBLE kids because they snipe him.
I'm actually not disagreeing with you, he does say it A LOT, but it does happen to him probably more then you think.
Also you and your friend are a very strong 2s team, however I think tech and his terran parter (destructive or something?) are much harder to beat then blink stalkers and mass banshees.
On September 06 2011 13:23 Torte de Lini wrote: I must have down syndrome.
Here's a scenario:
Lyote in the fucking way. You kill it. It's the early game, so you don't have that much to do. You assume the casters are watching, so you dance. They are probably not talking about really anything since the openings are rather generic and/or something relatively fast to explain.
I don't know if you're intentionally avoiding the other side of the argument or simply just being stubborn, but name another instance in that game where it was clear they were stream-cheating.
edit: LOLWOW
Are you kidding me, I just saw the stupid video. They're talking about the Lyote for a good 30 seconds at least. You've got to be kidding me.
Yo its obvious these scrubs are stream cheating...."They must be listening..." even the broadcasters pointed it out and these kids should be disqualified from the tourney and get none of the money. There is no way these kids killed the lyote to move it out of the way...they danced after they killed it....obvious...Just for one reason listening to the stream is not fair is if the other team randoms you listen to the cast and negate the effect of choosing random....which was obvious they knew what was going on cuz there games where there was no early game scouting. stream cheating is so weak....gtfo
Why do the games have to be live?? They cant have a 5 min buffer on them?? Would seem to solve the problem, while keeping the games current as well. There is no way to "catch" a more blatant act then that right there IMO. there is no way to stop people from Stream cheating, and people morals arent what they use to be.
If no buffer why not just allow everyone to do since some are anyways?? Cheating is no OK in my book but allowing people to cheat is even WORSE!!! All those sticking up for these clowns are ridiculous and prob just trying to get a rise outta protech OR really just are that dense to put it nicely!!
Cheating for ladder points is pretty low, but cheating for monetary gain in a tournament? That's a quick way to kill your reputation and gaming career. There should be an official review panel for exactly these sort of things, especially if you're going to stream the broadcast live. We have no VOIP of TW, which makes this whole business a lot more suspect than it would have had we heard them mention the lyote and not the casters. We also haven't heard any rebuttals from them, keeping up with the conveniently clandestine behavior. This isn't another ProTech witch hunt; this is robbery.
On September 07 2011 20:04 USgreed wrote: Yo its obvious these scrubs are stream cheating...."They must be listening..." even the broadcasters pointed it out and these kids should be disqualified from the tourney and get none of the money. There is no way these kids killed the lyote to move it out of the way...they danced after they killed it....obvious...Just for one reason listening to the stream is not fair is if the other team randoms you listen to the cast and negate the effect of choosing random....which was obvious they knew what was going on cuz there games where there was no early game scouting. stream cheating is so weak....gtfo
On September 07 2011 20:30 UncleWalty wrote: Cheating for ladder points is pretty low, but cheating for monetary gain in a tournament? That's a quick way to kill your reputation and gaming career. There should be an official review panel for exactly these sort of things, especially if you're going to stream the broadcast live. We have no VOIP of TW, which makes this whole business a lot more suspect than it would have had we heard them mention the lyote and not the casters. We also haven't heard any rebuttals from them, keeping up with the conveniently clandestine behavior. This isn't another ProTech witch hunt; this is robbery.
Haven't seen the "100% proof of cheating" yet, and please, don't insult people by saying dancing around proves it.
Protech team has many fans, and they deserve better manners from them towards other teams. I don't recall a team not being flamed and bmed by this guy.
I prefer to think there are more "clean" teams, and not only Protech team (according to him).
About the absence of VOIP, it wasn't compulsory and mb they are not fluent enough to do it.
If you want to remove the possibility of stream cheating, you cast replays. But if you do this kind of tournament (which I prefer, it was so much fun) then everything you say as a proof is not "100%". Random things happen, a ling that pokes at the exact time of an expansion, an attack just when some upgrade is finishing. All these things can be random or stream cheating, and by any means this is a 100% proof of cheating.
I still can't believe how someone can come to other team thread, flame them with no proof, and still this guy is featured and his blind fans defend them.
I don't want to insult anyone. I'm saying this needs to be investigated further and not simply swept under the rug because it cannot be undeniably confirmed at this time. It's questionable and money is at stake, so it deserves a second look.
I want an e-sports where cheaters never prosper, and I feel that this hasn't ever been dealt with in the manner it should be: of utmost importance out of respect for the player base and e-sports in general.
On September 07 2011 20:54 UncleWalty wrote: So dancing around proves their innocence?
I don't want to insult anyone. I'm saying this needs to be investigated further and not simply swept under the rug because it cannot be undeniably confirmed at this time. It's questionable and money is at stake, so it deserves a second look.
I want an e-sports where cheaters never prosper, and I feel that this hasn't ever been dealt with in the manner it should be: of utmost importance out of respect for the player base and e-sports in general.
Dancing is not a proof of anything, you need stronger evidence to make such statement or just shut up. And Protech didn't have it.
In my country, to put anyone into jail you need to prove him guilty, he doesn't have to prove innocence. Maybe in your country is different, I don't know.
If you want e-sports to grow, you have to remove also flammers.
On September 07 2011 12:39 Kyhol wrote: Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
Take everything he says as if it wasn't said.
I think i should just ask my two cents.
I dont like protech as I find him a colossal douche. just hearing the way he talks i think if i met him in real life i just wouldn't talk to him. he doesn't care and i dont care either. thats my opinion, i have a right to form that opinion. I've watched enough of his stream.
i think his strategies have holes but whatever. still solid. most people just copy his strategies anyways.
He accuses almost anyone who beats him of stream cheating. I'd say the majority 50 pct + are stream cheating and hacking in his eyes. it ruins his credibility so much that when he does have a legit gripe everyone brings this shit up. Granted, every time he's actually put a post down he seems to have some sort of thought behind it.
I wont lie. i'm suspicious of their stream cheating in this one particular instance. I"m not saying that they are. but protech's reasoning has at least some validity to raise suspicion. but i'm not saying they are. but its enough to make one slightly suspicious.
people say they are innocent till proven guilty but its impossible for these guys to help themselves appear more innocent so, i would let the issue rest for now.
On September 07 2011 12:39 Kyhol wrote: Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
Take everything he says as if it wasn't said.
I think i should just ask my two cents.
I dont like protech as I find him a colossal douche. just hearing the way he talks i think if i met him in real life i just wouldn't talk to him. he doesn't care and i dont care either. thats my opinion, i have a right to form that opinion. I've watched enough of his stream.
i think his strategies have holes but whatever. still solid. most people just copy his strategies anyways.
He accuses almost anyone who beats him of stream cheating. I'd say the majority 50 pct + are stream cheating and hacking in his eyes. it ruins his credibility so much that when he does have a legit gripe everyone brings this shit up. Granted, every time he's actually put a post down he seems to have some sort of thought behind it.
I wont lie. i'm suspicious of their stream cheating in this one particular instance. I"m not saying that they are. but protech's reasoning has at least some validity to raise suspicion. but i'm not saying they are. but its enough to make one slightly suspicious.
people say they are innocent till proven guilty but its impossible for these guys to help themselves appear more innocent so, i would let the issue rest for now.
"I'm not sure if you are guilty, but let's trash your credibility just in case"
On September 07 2011 12:39 Kyhol wrote: Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
Take everything he says as if it wasn't said.
I think i should just ask my two cents.
I dont like protech as I find him a colossal douche. just hearing the way he talks i think if i met him in real life i just wouldn't talk to him. he doesn't care and i dont care either. thats my opinion, i have a right to form that opinion. I've watched enough of his stream.
i think his strategies have holes but whatever. still solid. most people just copy his strategies anyways.
He accuses almost anyone who beats him of stream cheating. I'd say the majority 50 pct + are stream cheating and hacking in his eyes. it ruins his credibility so much that when he does have a legit gripe everyone brings this shit up. Granted, every time he's actually put a post down he seems to have some sort of thought behind it.
I wont lie. i'm suspicious of their stream cheating in this one particular instance. I"m not saying that they are. but protech's reasoning has at least some validity to raise suspicion. but i'm not saying they are. but its enough to make one slightly suspicious.
people say they are innocent till proven guilty but its impossible for these guys to help themselves appear more innocent so, i would let the issue rest for now.
"I'm not sure if you are guilty, but let's trash your credibility just in case"
A clear Dominique Strauss-Kahn case.
not saying its even fair but the truth is that court of public opinion is different from court of law. you can say what you want but this has been going on since dawn of man.
it was just too coincidental their killing of the lyote. just too damn coincidental.
On September 07 2011 12:39 Kyhol wrote: Every time I play against protech he accuses me of stream cheating. So let it be known to anyone who ever deals with protech: he's a wiener. Rather than accepting that he has flawed strategies, and then putting time into fixing them, the guy says "cheater! hacker!" etc. I would rather put the time into learning the game and perfecting my play. It's like a quote I heard once. " It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness. "
Take everything he says as if it wasn't said.
I think i should just ask my two cents.
I dont like protech as I find him a colossal douche. just hearing the way he talks i think if i met him in real life i just wouldn't talk to him. he doesn't care and i dont care either. thats my opinion, i have a right to form that opinion. I've watched enough of his stream.
i think his strategies have holes but whatever. still solid. most people just copy his strategies anyways.
He accuses almost anyone who beats him of stream cheating. I'd say the majority 50 pct + are stream cheating and hacking in his eyes. it ruins his credibility so much that when he does have a legit gripe everyone brings this shit up. Granted, every time he's actually put a post down he seems to have some sort of thought behind it.
I wont lie. i'm suspicious of their stream cheating in this one particular instance. I"m not saying that they are. but protech's reasoning has at least some validity to raise suspicion. but i'm not saying they are. but its enough to make one slightly suspicious.
people say they are innocent till proven guilty but its impossible for these guys to help themselves appear more innocent so, i would let the issue rest for now.
"I'm not sure if you are guilty, but let's trash your credibility just in case"
A clear Dominique Strauss-Kahn case.
not saying its even fair but the truth is that court of public opinion is different from court of law. you can say what you want but this has been going on since dawn of man.
it was just too coincidental their killing of the lyote. just too damn coincidental.
They are spanish and only Executor is a little better in english so not sure if they would've even get it right on the "lyote" joke. Besides, we haven't heard of PTSL investigating on the "incident". I guess it's ProTech's "job" or even 3rd place team to ask for an investigation. If not even PTSL asks for it, I gues they as organisors, judged there wasn't an issue there.
Gogo TeamWizards!! Almost got rank #1 in the world this morning. Just behind Vitamin/Sorcery. Want showmatch of these 2 teams clashing BADLY!!
When powertech played against team EG, there was a game where axlav proxied two starports, protech saced an overlord and saw nothing, and power made turrets anyway.
what now?
now we've got one meaningless coincidence for each team. is that enough to call them both cheaters?
Mak - Protech didn't just say the lyote was the only thing. I'm not even sure he knew about that until it was all over. They were suspicious because of their blind hard counter openers when one of them was random. The timing of their scouting was oddly early and suspicious in one of the games as well. If you didn't watch and don't know what is being discussed, please don't make judgements on it. If you did watch, get the facts right.
Vitamin - Sorcery is your partner since forever. Sorcery is a confirmed hacker. You are his accomplice. QED you are an admitted and known hacker. Not to mention the way you guys don't scout simply gives away your production hacking 100%. You don't even try to pretend. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200545
On September 08 2011 07:16 JustTray wrote: Mak - Protech didn't just say the lyote was the only thing. I'm not even sure he knew about that until it was all over. They were suspicious because of their blind hard counter openers when one of them was random. The timing of their scouting was oddly early and suspicious in one of the games as well. If you didn't watch and don't know what is being discussed, please don't make judgements on it. If you did watch, get the facts right.
Vitamin - Sorcery is your partner since forever. Sorcery is a confirmed hacker. You are his accomplice. QED you are an admitted and known hacker. Not to mention the way you guys don't scout simply gives away your production hacking 100%. You don't even try to pretend. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200545
Manner - grow up kid, get a life.
So dumb to stream cheat and then die to stupid things in games 3 and 5. I feel that as an argument is stronger than what Protech has said so far. It isn't a proof either, but here we are not talking about proofs but suspicious things. I'm pretty sure I can go through vods of them and find games where they blindly countered something, just by chance. And I don't consider them suspicious.
I'm not saying they did or didn't, just that neither you nor Protech can be sure if they cheated even if they did.
However this is not stopping people to flame them, quite sad tbh.
On September 08 2011 07:16 JustTray wrote:Vitamin - Sorcery is your partner since forever. Sorcery is a confirmed hacker. You are his accomplice. QED you are an admitted and known hacker. Not to mention the way you guys don't scout simply gives away your production hacking 100%. You don't even try to pretend. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=200545
Manner - grow up kid, get a life.
How am I his accomplice? I started playing 2v2s with him way after he admitted to hacking.
What is QED? I never admitted hacking and I never hacked.
We don't scout because we have different strats based off of match up and maps. We always scout when we face random players. You can ask anyone who watches my stream regularly.
You can also ask people that watch us stream, call out our strats in the beginning of the game.
How was I bad manner in anyway? I'm just curious to why your accusing me of hacking when I never did.
Btw. We always kill critters all the time. What if it was a coincidence that TeamWizards were killing the critters while the casters were talking about it?
Hi guys , im streaming again. Im playing now 2v2 for Fnatic team us you know. Im playing 2v2 with AlaStOr,one of the guys who was with me in Korea (He was silver 3 months ago,now he is grand master top25 xD) to play the GSL qualifer , we are doing pretty good (top1 2v2 in the european ladder , and grand masters league). We are playing Z+Z , is very entertained xD. Thanks for your time, hope to see you guys in my stream : )
hi , ill be streaming for 4-5 hours some 2v2's with AlaStOr , we play Z+Z (Grand masters europe) and we are ranked top1 world right now in ladder , have fun!
Streaming some 1v1 HOTS: http://www.twitch.tv/wizardsiezael ill try to go masters before go sleep (In about 14 hours i hope :D) Enjoy! Ill make a reppack later also, hf hf !~
EPT
Just sayin'.![[image loading]](http://spe.fotolog.com/photo/46/63/40/1meno1fa0/1200830207_f.jpg)
(Btw ProTech, even though I'm banned from your chat because ONCE my opinion didn't match yours, I'm still enjoying your high level 2v2. I guess my IQ isn't too low since I acknowledge your skills as a 2v2er =)
