Each and every day of play in TSL seems to get better and better. Saturday's games were great, and Sunday's seemed absolutely determined to top them in every way. Between Idra's predicted "walk over" victory, TLO playing a Brood War legend, and Mondragon's (possible) glorious return packed an awful lot of excitement into a single afternoon.
Cruncher begins the match with forge, nexus, gateway while Idra opens with a spawning pool and gas, making a hatchery at his natural shortly thereafter. Cruncher begins with a stargate and begins taking down his backdoor rocks while Idra grabs a third.
After seeing the initial voidray, Idra prepares with an evolution chamber and hydralisk den, maing spores to guard each base. Cruncher's plan is obvious as he adds a robo, then proceeds to take the base at 12 - he is looking to max out and take it to late game. Idra responds by adding a fourth base and begins amassing a roach-hydra army with corrupters.
Idra's nearly maxed army breaks down the front door, but is unable to do damage before being driven back by a colossus-voidray-stalker force. Poking in a second time it is clear he will not be able to engage head-on, and begins making a nydus near 12 o'clock which is stopped before completing.
While taking the rest of the map, Idra barges into the Protoss natural, killing most of the probes but leaving the nexus alive. Losing a large portion of his army triggers Cruncher to wander into the middle of the map with an imposing force of 13 void rays, 4 colossus, and a handful of stalkers.
Idra is able to easily remax, but takes a poor angle on the next engagement and leaves without a GG as Cruncher begins feasting on the rest of his bases. [22:01]
For the second time, Cruncher begins his game with forge, nexus, gateway, but this time Idra opts to hatchery before pool. He follows that hatchery up with a second, taking 3 bases off 2 lings as Cruncher populates his mineral lines.
Quickly after Idra's lair is finished, be begins researching ventral sacs. At the same time, Cruncher begins to start a small harassement force of void rays and phoenixes. He is repeatedly repelled without doing any damage, and Idra begins to creep out into the map's center while taking a 4th base.
The real fighting begins as Idra loads his entire army into overlords and unleashes a huge hydra-ling force into Cruncher's main. Cruncher is able to stop it with the help of his first colossus, but a second drop on the mineral line kills all the helpless probes as a third force of hydras are damage the newly finished third nexus.
Idra drops the main base several more times, killing probes and then pulling his units back into overlords and running away when the Protoss army arrives. Eventually his economic advantage becomes overwhelming and his main force attacks through the natural to kill Cruncher's entire army directly. [19:45]
Cruncher opens the third game with a gateway and core, unlike his previous two. Idra makes a pool and then a fast second hatchery. Cruncher makes a fast stalker to kill the drone in his base, and then immediately lays down a nexus. As the nexus is finishing, he makes 4 additional gateways and prepares to pressure while Idra's roach warren finishes.
Laying forward pylons along the way, he brings a largely sentry force to Idra's front and traps five roaches in a forcefield circle, making them instant cannon fodder. Idra pulls drones and attempts to hold as more roaches build, but it isn't enough and the game is over. [10:17]
Kas goes for a gasless rax FE, but Haypro doesn’t hesitate to hatch first as well. Walling off with barracks, Kas doesn’t tech to starport before pumping out tanks from dual factories. Kas sets up a position outside Haypro’s outer expansion, and uses that time to stall and get defense up at his own third. Haypro waits for baneling speed before doing a flank on that siege, and Kas does not have enough tanks to deal with banelings. Kas sends a second wave of tanks and marines to set up enough soft contain on Haypro, this time adding turrets as well. Haypro’s mutalisks fly to deal some harass on Kas’s backdoor expansion. Although 20 supply behind, Haypro once again surrounds the siege area, and with Kas not reacting in time with his marines, baneling splash and the sheer number of zerglings break the siege line. A huge clump of his marines was missing due to their adventurous hunt of mutalisks at the bottom left of the map. Kas pulls back his siege line, this time just outside his potential 4th at the center of the map. Haypro times it perfect as Kas unsieges and masses in, but it is the tanks in the back that saves Kas with a crucial hit on the banelings rolling down the ramp. Kas counterpushes the fourth, takes it down, catches glimpse of drones Maynarding, and completely shatters Haypro’s economy. Haypro makes a last ditch effort and rams all his banelings into the planetary fortess, and afterwards, GGs. [21:59]
Kas expands behind blue flame hellions, but the push gets crushed by a single spine crawler, and the zerglings clean up the rest. Kas did pick up a few roasty drones before his hellions were destroyed, though. Kas goes for a similar contain to game 1, setting up with tanks and marines right outside the creep’s visibility. Haypro attempts to break with roaches and banelings while the tanks are well-clumped, but overall the architecture of the map narrows the surface area that could Haypro could attain, and the splash damage irks Haypro to retreat. Kas trades his army for Haypro’s third base at 5 o’ clock. Both players look to take the wing expansions, but Haypro’s burrowed zerglings deny the CC landing. Seeing the naked CC and SCVs triggers Haypro’s mutalisks to fly in for some free kills. The center of the map is a playground for Kas’s siege tanks, and Kas throws a handful of marines at Haypro’s third, but to no avail. Haypro baits Kas into moving forward unsieged with a few burrowed banelings, and the clumped stack of Terran units is a baneling’s best friend. Haypro is running on four bases and almost doubles Kas’s supply. Both players shut down each other’s’ wing expansion, but it is Haypro that still has a decent economy, sitting at 55 to 29 workers. Mutalisks deny Kas any additional bases, but Kas wins a small victory as his siege tanks held on to Haypro’s attempt to break. With only marines leftover and no economy, Kas walked in and sees that he is severely behind, and Haypro evens out the series. [27:14]
Kas shows us the third time he FEs, tech lab barracks into blue flame and 3 more barracks. Kas moves out with a lot of marines and hellions, and begins a third CC even before Haypro attempts to take his own. The attack does well, taking down the guarding spine crawler and Haypro could not morph enough banelings in time, forcing the drones to clean up leftover marines. Kas breaks down the northern backdoor rocks while Haypro flies in to harass with his mutalisks, spotting the CC in the process. Haypro notices the danger to his main and sends everything back to defend, while simultaneously getting his third and fourth running. Kas’s orbital command is just sitting in his main, and he elects to make a new CC at the 2 o’ clock instead. Kas goes again at the back and with an adequate amount of tanks this time, the banelings have no chance at getting into the marines’ faces. As a result, Haypro’s food plummets, and while he finally cleans up the push, the supply is 163-93 in favor of Kas. Kas goes through the same avenue to attack again, this time sieging up both the main and Haypro’s middle expansion. Haypro’s income is effectively halfed, and with Kas forces running all over the map with +3 weapons marines, Kas triumphs over Haypro in the RO32. [21:58]
ZeeRaX starts his game by walling off, and making a quick stargate after a sentry. Mondragon chooses to hatch first, but makes the unorthodox play of expanding towards Protoss insead of using his comparatively safe backdoor natural.
The first voidray arrives at this base with two phoenix, murdering queens, drones, and overlords as the evolution chamber finishes and spore crawlers morph. Mondragon takes and populates a third as the harass continues, preparing for the midgame with a hydra den and roach warren. ZeeRaX begins colossus production while continuously making phoenixes to support the lone void ray.
Mondragon decides to all but ignore the phoenixes, throwing all of his resources into roaches and attacking the Protoss front, where a third base is warping in. After successfully denying the expansion Mondragon launches a double pronged attack, dropping the back natural and hitting the front with a pure roach army.
After killing several colossus that wander too far into the fray, Mondragon kills the natural nexus and begins to work on the newly finished third as void rays attempt to stop them. They are unable to deal enough damage in time and the game is over when roaches overrun the main of ZeeRaX. [17:45]
ZeeRaX starts game 2 off with a gateway and core at the front of his natural, while Mondragon makes a pool and gas followed by a hatchery. A stargate follows, but the first void ray isn't created until after a nexus. Protoss starts teching to colossus immediately, still with one gateway, while Zerg takes a third base before adding a hydra den.
Like the earlier game, Mondragon bursts through the front with an entirely roach force and kills a colossus and several probes before being stopped. As he is taking a fourth base, he loads 12 roaches into overlords and drops them in the main while bringing a smaller roach-hydra force to the front door.
ZeeRaX, not having started stalker production quite yet, is forced once again to try to defend purely with void rays and colossus, the latter of which are quickly overwhelmed. Reinforcements stream into the natural as the probe count in the main is reduced, and ZeeRaX taps out. [15:30]
NaDa begins by teching to starport and getting a banshee, while TLO starts with double tech lab barracks and a ghost academy. Some early pressure from TLO is unable to go up NaDa's ramp, he backs away and begins a command center right at the gold. While his forces are breaking down the center rocks, the single banshee is able to stop mining and rack up close to double digit kills before being taken down. While NaDa builds up a sizeable tank marine army, TLO focuses solely on marines and marauders and adds a whole slew of barracks. NaDa eventually catches wind of the base at the gold expansion, and sieges up to prepare an assault. TLO tries to slow it with a nuke on the opposing army, but NaDa scans in time to kill the ghost and TLO is unable to repell the tanks. [13:38]
Both players open with a command center after barracks, teching to a factory shortly after. Into the midgame they both keep pace building units, with little conflict. TLO remains a hair ahead of NaDa in harvesters and upgrades during this entire phase, as the armies dance around the map's center he attempts to drop NaDa's third but is largely unsuccessful. The two continue mirroring eachother, as they take a 4th base with similar timings and each begins harassing with one banshee. A key difference occurs here when NaDa takes a 5th base in the corner of the map and TLO readies himself to produce battlecruisers. TLO spots the expansion thanks to transfering SCVs, and is able to take it down before the planetary fortress finishes morphing. TLO engages NaDa's force head first and is able to drive it back and overcome it easily thanks to a marginally superior army, economy, and 2 battlecruisers. [20:24]
TLO begins with a command center at 15, while NaDa opens comfortably with a banshee and cloak before taking his natural. NaDa makes two banshees and splits them between the main and expansion of TLO, racking up SCV kills while taking his third. TLO attempts a counter with a handfull of marines and lone marauder, but is easily stopped cold at the NaDa's front door. The banshees of NaDa have survived through this entire episode, and continue to score the occasional worker kill. Eventually NaDa brings his tanks and marines to TLO's base and he is forced to GG, facing down a superior economy and army. [12:48]
Q: Congrats - how do you feel? What did you do immediately after he left game 3?
Thanks. I feel awesome. After he left I just started laughing uncontrollably and thinking how much he was raging.
Q: Take us through your thoughts for the games. Why did you do the voidray/colossus strategy in game 1?
I practiced a bunch on the maps beforehand of course. Thanks to my teammates (specifically Ryze/Firezerg) we planned out a bunch of strategies based on Idra's game play, replays we saw, and according to the map. On Shakuras, we knew that once Protoss gets 3 bases uncontested, they have a huge advantage. So we found all the flaws to a quick 3rd and voidray/collosus provided the best outcome.
Q: In game 2, Idra did a fast drop strategy. July did this too against MC in the GSL Finals. Were you surprised by it?
I expected it. But I didn't get to practice too much in the last few days, so I went over some builds and strategies that would stop it. My idea was getting a fast colossus to deal with the hydras, however I did not know the exact timings of the drops, so I was off with my timing, and did not have the correct response to it. I fully expected him to do it though.
He is a very predictable player, and after the GSL finals I was talking to my teammates about the games and my games in TSL.
Q: In game 3 you decided to do a fast 6 warpgate attack on Crevasse. What was your plan?
My plan on Crevasse was to mix my build up. First two game I decided to forge fast expo, into collosus/voidray. I expected him to think I would be planning the same kind of build. When he scouted me I tried to fake a 4gate, since I beat him on ladder just a few hours before our match with that strategy. I also went fast hallcuination to get scouting out, to check if he over-reacted to what he saw. I saw no units and after I scouted him, I decided to pressure. I did not plan on winning the game with that push, but he had ZERO units, so I just ended the game.
Q: Idra said before the match that he was treating this as a walkover. Do you feel that he took you too lightly? Do you think that you being the underdog was an advantage in this series?
Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player. He should learn the most basic rule of a tournament, never underestimate your opponent. I love being the underdog, it makes 'upsets' all the more interesting!
Q: There seems to be no love lost between you two. Can you give us some of the history between you guys?
I actually do not even know where all his rage comes from, but it is hilarious. Whenever I match him on ladder I just cheese him to get him to rage, so maybe from there? He rages at everyone he loses to, so who knows. But I have zero respect for a player like Idra.
Q: Idra did not GG in either game he lost. Do you see this as a sign of disrespect to you?
I didn't expect a GG from Idra no matter what happened, unless he won. Like I said, I have zero respect for him, and my gl/hf/gg were just for the tournament. Right before he left I made a smiley face just to get him to rage more. After every game he kept trash talking, even after he lost the first game. I couldn't think of anything better than just a smiley face to get him to rage. And after he left the game I just started laughing. I couldn't even imagine how upset he was.
Q: You recently signed with a new team, Complexity. How are they treating you?
Complexity is great. The players are awesome to hang with, same with the management. Everyone will be extremely happy, but not too surprised, since they know what I am capable of when I set my mind to it.
Q: You've been pretty direct and honest in this interview, do you feel that you're going to receive a lot of hate from Idra's many fans?
Probably. Most of his fans just enjoy seeing him rage, so maybe they will love it?
Q: Next round you play the winner of Mondragon and Zeerax. Do you prefer who you play?
I'd rather play against Mondragon since he is a Zerg. PvP is insanely annoying to play.
Q: Any last thanks or words for your fans? You probably made a legion today.
Thanks to my teammates for helping me prepare for the match. Thanks to all my fans for supporting me. I hope you keep supporting me!
Empire.Kas Post-game Interview
Q: Congratulations. How do you feel?
Happy, although I played bad, I'm pleased with the result and subsequent rounds will try harder.
Q: In game 1, you chose to play a more passive style. What was your strategy?
I have studied Haypro and tried to pick the best gameplan, although I am not pleased with my performance. On the first game I played poorly, on such large maps to play aggressively is difficult because a small mistake and you are behind in economy, a Zerg such as Haypro should be able to then realize his advantage.
Q: You were ahead in game 2 but his mutalisks hurt you mid game. What went wrong?
I became too comfortable when I got ahead. I suspected his switch to muta, but reacted too late. I want to say that Haypro played very well that game.
Q: In game 3, your first attack failed but you still managed to win. Were you worried?
I chose a very economic build, with a good timing attack to get more expansions. Somehow I was sure that he was going to 3 bases. I was wrong, but given the lag in his economy, I managed to win in the macro game with a couple of good moves.
Q: You play the winner of TLO and Nada next. Do you have a preference on who to play? Why?
I will be happy to look at the opposition of these two players of the highest class, for me the honor to play with one of them
Q: How do you feel about the results of the first weekend of TSL?
I think the games showed that each qualified player deserves a spot in TSL3, the better prepared player wins. I think Strelok did not deserve to lose 0-2, with Thorzain I am glad he was able to find good strategies against FruitDealer. Morrow showed how to play against Jinro's style. I think we should expect many more exciting games.
Q: Anyone you would like to thank? Any last words for your fans?
Thanks to Morrow and Dimaga for practice, and Strelok, Brat_OK and other my friends for advice. Big thanks to my fans who cheer for me, hope I show some good games in next round. Thanks to Empire and our main sponsor Thermaltake for supporting me.
MYM.Mondragon Post-game Interview
Q: You just won your first match in TSL3. How do you feel?
It feels great. Many people expected me to win even though they did not know anything about my current shape. My goal was to win the Ro32 and since I kind of felt the pressure not to let anyone down, I tried to prepare as best as possible.
Q: This is your first major tournament in quite a long time. Did it feel any different to you, any kind of nervousness? Or was it just back to business?
Yeah, I planned TSL3 to be my first major appearance in a bigger tournament. My practice was only focused on this first match against ZeeRaX. I did not practice in mass game mode, but I practiced intensely (thanks to Tod, SaSe, iNfeRnaL, Testie, kAra and whoever practiced with me). The tournament itself felt like it usually does, I love tournaments, I love playing competively, but I prepare it my own way.
Q: In game 1 Zeerax harassed you for a long time with a few stargate units. Were you worried at all, or did you think the situation was under control?
At first I was a bit worried, but I had my evo early enough to control the situation. I knew I would lose some units, some overlords and some drones, but that did not really concern me as long as I could delay his second expansion with 2 additional gas. Since that worked out perfectly I knew I had the game under control.
Q: You used drop tactics in both of your games. Is this part of your normal ZvP style, or was it just something you used because of the special situations in todays games?
Of course I do not talk about my ZvP in specific now because that would make me kind of self-owned. Indeed, I did watch replays of him and analysed his strategies and he played exactly the same way I thought he would play. Seeing the way he usually plays I figured out drop play would be pretty smart.
Q: So you're enjoying being an unknown, a wild card for once in your life?
Hehe, that's pretty neat. I guess you know I love to be the underdog (and obviously I've always been an underdog whenever I play). Thus the situation is quite enjoyable for me.
Q: Your next opponent is the winner of Idra vs Cruncher. Who do you prefer to play, and do you have anything amusing to say to annoy our American readers?
I am not that up to date and to be honest, sorry. I do not even know who cruncher is, but considering he qualified through a TSL qualifier he is probably not too bad. I love playing ZvP, but still I think that Idra is going to win. He is very very skilled and I do not see how Cruncher can beat him. Therefore I guess I have to start practicing some ZvZ, but beating Idra is not really probable at all.
Q: Oh, so you'd rather play him in Brood War if you had a choice?
Haha, in BW I would not have a chance anyway since my ZvT used to be the worst ZvT Europe has ever seen. Luckily ZvZ in sc2 is more volatile and there might be a surprise that I win one map against him at least.
Q: It's good to see the trademark Mondragon modesty before he goes on to the finals of TSL.
Do not speak of the finals, I've just only won Ro32.
Q: Any last comments, shout outs, imba complaints, or funny stuff?
Thanks again to everyone who helped me to prepare for the match, thanks to my supporters who kept believing in me although they did not know anything about my current shape. Thanks TeamLiquid & PokerStrategy.com for setting this up once again. It has always been a pleasure to play TSL!
Q: 이번 상대는 한 때 한국에서 친정팀인 oGs과 활동한 다리오 선수였다. 변칙적인 전략을 즐겨쓰는 선수인데, 그의 스타일에 많이 익숙했나? 또 다리오 선수의 독특한 스타일에 맞춰 연습을 했는가? A: 네 숙소에서 친해진 사이라 연습도 가끔했어요. 머리 속으로 상대 전략에 대해서 많이 고민했습니다
Q: 첫 경기에서 상대 선수가 고스트 이후에 황금 미네랄 멀티를 빠르게 가져갔다. 이 전략에 많이 당황했는가, 아니면 어느 정도 예측했나? A: 첫번째 건설로봇으로 상대 기지앞에서 좋은 타이밍에 고스트를 일찍봐서 운이좋았어요. 벙커 밀어내고 유리하다고 생각했는데 금멀티 보고 놀라고 핵공격에 두번 놀랬네요 ㅎㅎ
Q: 두번째 경기에서 다리오 선수의 드랍 견재 이후의 배틀크루저에 패배했다. 패배의 원인이 무었이며, 패치로 상향된 배틀크루저를 어떻게 생각하고 있나? A: 시즈모드업이 늦어 첫진출 병력이 그냥 돌아오게 되었습니다. 배틀은 정말 깜짝 놀랐네여 역시 다리오선수 대단하다고 느꼈습니다.
Q: 세번째 경기에서 상대가 종착역의 고급가스 멀티에 빠르게 확장하는 전략을 썼다. TSL1 주차 때에도 ThorZain 선수가 이러한 전략으로 김원기 선수 상대로 승리를 거뒀는데, 이 전략을 어떻게 생각하며, 오늘은 어떻게 대처했는지? A: 정찰이 상당히 빠르게와서 전략적일꺼라 예상했습니다. 본진 궤도사령부가 아닌걸 보고 예측했지만 먼 거리가 아니라 저한테 좋았습니다
Q: 다음 상대는 HayPro와 Kas의 승자인데, 두 선수에 대해 어느 정도의 정보를 가지고 있으며, 어느 선수와 경기를 하고 싶은가? A: 헤이프로선수와는 친한데 카스 선수는 잘 모릅니다. 이왕이면 헤이프로 선수와 해보고싶네요 ㅎㅎ
Q: 마지막 한 마디? A: 연습을 도와준 ogs팀원들에게 감사를 보냅니다.
Q: How does it feel to advance into TSL's Round of 16?
I'm quite joyous. It's good.
Q: Your opponent was Dario, who was once active with oGs, your home team. He is a player who enjoys using unconventional strategies -- were you very familiar with his style? Did you practice with Dario's unique style in mind?
Yeah, we grew close when he was in the dormitories so we practiced together sometimes. I agonized quite a bit over the strategies he could use in my head.
Q: In the first game, your opponent took the gold mineral expansion quickly after ghosts. Were you flustered by this strategy, or did you expect it to a certain degree?
I was quite fortunate because my SCV got in at a good timing and saw the ghosts in the front of my opponent's base. I thought I was ahead after I razed the Bunker, but I was surprised by his gold expansion and then was surprised again by the nuclear attack.
Q: In the second game, you lost to Battlecruisers after Dario's drop harassment. What do you think was the main reason you had lost, and what do you think of the boosted Battlecruisers after the patch?
My Siege Mode upgrade was late so my expeditionary force had to just come back. I was really surprised by the Battlecruisers, and I felt Dario was really that great of a player as I had expected.
Q: In the third match, your opponent used a strategy that quickly exapanded into the rich gas expansion in Terminus. During the first week in TSL, ThorZain also used a similar strategy in order to defeat Fruitdealer. What do you think of this strategy and how did you deal with it today?
I predicted that he would be playing strategically because he scouted me very quickly. I expected his strategy after I saw that he wasn't getting an Orbital Command at his main base. Because I wasn't too far away from him I had the advantage.
Q: Your next opponent is the winner between HayPro and Kas. What do you know about these players and who would you like to face?
I'm close with Haypro, but I don't know Kas very well. If I could choose, I would like to play against Haypro hehe.
Q: Anything else you want to say?
I would like to send thanks to my oGs teammates for helping me practice.
Thanks to Milkis for translation.
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Thanks for writing looks great, i have only read the first two battle reports but i noticed the TLO v. Nada series battle report is missing in its spoilers. Other then that great work!
Cruncher is ballin. He is basically me personality-wise but much much better at player. Zero respect for the idralisk QQ/BM masta at least Cruncher showed respect for the tourney to give the standard "gg" after game. The Smiley face was priceless.
I CrunCher actually played amazingly well, but I think the forcefields did the trick... so sexy. He's actually pretty professional with his interviews too. Sad to see TLO not make it in the Ro16 or Haypro either but I was happy to see NaDa make it.
Not being intimidated by being marked as a huge underdog is one thing and it is undeniable that it's a valuable skill any tournament. Not respecting a hugely favored player that absolutely manhandles you with a strategy you 'knew' was coming and practiced against is quite another and it says a lot more about cruncher than it does about idra.
On March 29 2011 11:45 ReaperX wrote: [Cruncher]'s actually pretty professional with his interviews too.
Clearly you don't mean this interview. It is hardly professional to make every other response about how much you want to make your opponent 'rage' because you 'don't respect him.' That's not the behavior of a professional. That's the attitude of a troll, to induce as much rage as possible. He's no more professional than idra was in his pre-game interview. I'm all for the logic of 'return in kind' but let's call this what it is and not delude ourselves just because he managed to take a best of 3 off idra.
Thanks for the interviews, really enjoyed reading them, especially Mondi and Nada's. They are two of the main players I am cheering for in the tournament.
I think Kennegit said something about the Boxer interview last week, it is just amazing to me to see that there is TSL winner interview with Nada.
I had hoped Cruncher might take a humble approach to his interview, even if only to please people like me who weren't impressed by his wins. Instead, he comes across overly cocky.
IdrA is overrated? He's nowhere near being good without playing 24/7? Most people thought IdrA was the better player by far in the series.
He fully expected IdrA's strategy in game 2? Then why did he get dominated by it in perhaps the most one-sided SC2 game I've ever seen?
He also says IdrA lost game 3 because he had zero units. In reality, he had five roaches stuck in a forcefield trap, unable to fight back against sentries.
Cruncher is so funny haha. CombatEX actually made me realize how funny BM and rage is; he did extreme BM to Destiny then started streaming and gave his view of the BM. His extraordinary ecstasy as he dropped nexuses in his opponents base, spamming "EZ", was glorious.
This is the same situation and it makes me lol hard.
No one else is talking about the biggest surprise here? Mondragon practiced a little with Testie... Fuck, what I'd give to see him back on top with Mondi.
Keep it up Cruncher!! I agree with everything Cruncher said. Idra by far overrated i don't care what he did in gsl he can't macro/micro for anything. Game 1 WAIT FOR 5 k MINERALS 200 food then a move LOLLLLL.
Totally glad Cruncher isn't humble in his interview, it makes things more interesting.
His honesty is appealing. A lot of people can rage at his playstyle or this and that but at the end of the day he is playing in the Round of 16, so good on him.
Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player.
Relatively unaccomplished protoss player calling one of the best players in the world, who has proven his ability time and time again, overrated? ell oh ell.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I think he should wait until he wins an actual event before he talks like that. He's being just as rude as the player he is criticizing.
The TSL is so awesome. I always get a big banana grin on my face whenever I read these interviews . CrunCher is now my personal hero! Idra had it coming :D
People always say "one of the best players in the world" for IdrA but he hasn't performed as of lately. And he's been in quite a few tournaments ever since he left Korea. People are saying "cruncher" shouldn't talk like that, but IdrA speaks the same way of his opponents when he himself has consistently performed at a mediocre level at best. The double standards of IdrA fans never ceases to amaze me. They love it when he BM but when he gets BM people say it's "too much" or "IdrA is still better". As far as I can tell Morrow may end up being a better than zerg than he is if he continues to progress.
Cruncher taking a very non-Korean approach to the interview I see. Not a fan of his or this particular interview, but more power to him I guess? =/
On March 29 2011 11:57 tracoes wrote: Keep it up Cruncher!! I agree with everything Cruncher said. Idra by far overrated i don't care what he did in gsl he can't macro/micro for anything. Game 1 WAIT FOR 5 k MINERALS 200 food then a move LOLLLLL.
And you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Or you're just trolling.
Huge IdrA fan here, but I liked crunchers interview. Very honest about how he feels (although I obviously don't agree with what hes saying) and its good to see that. IdrA did talk a lot of crap so its always nice to see someone who will go toe to toe with that kind of verbal pressure.
I still don't like the guy and probably wont watch his games or cheer for him as I have nothing to learn from watching his play, but I respect him as a player and good luck to cruncher for the rest of the tournament.
Hmm. Idra was kind of arrogant and lost, but now Cruncher is being a bit arrogant in his interview, whereas Mondragon is extremely humble in his. I wonder if that should suggest predictions for next round?
All the games this weekend were amazingly epic. Although I weep a little tear at that screenshot of the nuke almost landing in Nada vs. TLO game 1. If that ghost had only lived a few more seconds...
Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
Mondragon has the right attitude, and his games were truly a display of understanding the game. He has won over a fan, and I wish him the best in the tournament.
On March 29 2011 11:52 Gaius Baltar wrote: I had hoped Cruncher might take a humble approach to his interview, even if only to please people like me who weren't impressed by his wins. Instead, he comes across overly cocky.
Agree on that point.
IdrA is overrated? He's nowhere near being good without playing 24/7?
I think that IdrA is very overrated and always has been. Everyone agrees he's a pretty good player--he usually makes it a few rounds into tournaments, but he rarely goes all the way. He's always been a one-trick pony: he's very good at macro, and thinks that the rest of the game is "luck". Despite this, he keeps talking himself up, and people keep buying into him.
Most people thought IdrA was the better player by far in the series.
Yes, that is pretty much the definition of overrated.
He fully expected IdrA's strategy in game 2? Then why did he get dominated by it in perhaps the most one-sided SC2 game I've ever seen?
a) You apparently have not seen very many SC2 games, not even in the TSL (cf. either game of OgSMC vs. Ciara). b) Cruncher already answered your question--he expected the general strategy: he wasn't familiar with the details of timings and, yes, he ended up getting crushed. I'm not trying to take away from Idra's victory in that game--it was an impressive performance, but your rhetorical question is irrelevant.
He also says IdrA lost game 3 because he had zero units. In reality, he had five roaches stuck in a forcefield trap, unable to fight back against sentries.
You're really stretching for things to criticize, aren't you? IdrA had much fewer units than he needed to hold the attack. Yes, he had more than Zero. Zero was an exaggeration.
I totally understand your taking a dislike to cruncher from this interview, but your post goes overboard in the other direction.
On March 29 2011 12:19 justdweezil wrote: Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
I think he is warranted being somewhat of an asshole if you look at idra's interviews/manners towards Cruncher. Makes TSL more interesting too!
On March 29 2011 12:19 justdweezil wrote: Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
I think he is warranted being somewhat of an asshole if you look at idra's interviews/manners towards Cruncher. Makes TSL more interesting too!
I prefer to ignore "warrant" in being an asshole - if someone is a jerk to you, and you respond in a classy way (rather than sinking to their level) it makes you look much better. I agree that trash-talking makes games interesting, but I prefer friendly trash-talking and not this venomous stuff. Good point, though.
Was anticipating Cruncher's interview since he beat Idra and it's better than I expected. People can talk all the shit they want about him and how Idra is a better player and outclassed him or w/e. Fact is at the end of the day all the skill in the world didn't get Idra past Cruncher. Cruncher did what he had to do to win and Idra didn't. Keep it up Cruncher!
On March 29 2011 12:19 justdweezil wrote: Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
People blow Idra's "rage" way out of proportion... venting a little frustration or speaking your mind is not a very big deal, and Crunchers lolitrollu attitude is painful to read. He really seems like a complete chode more so now than even before. Gloating his wins of a WC3 replay site with screenshots from the lobby as members of another community site shit on "Idra fanboys" as he caters to his own... the whole thing is pathetic.
No matter which player you like more, the lolinternet instigation on forums is more annoying to scroll past than it is good for anything.
cruncher is terrible, i hate to tell everyone. idra probably didnt practice at all for it and took him too lightly. idra is 100000x the player cruncher is =/
Ah. If NaDa wins again, please tell him he has lots of fans from his BW days who love him and follow his results even though they don't play SC2 at all.
On March 29 2011 12:11 adeezy wrote: People always say "one of the best players in the world" for IdrA but he hasn't performed as of lately. And he's been in quite a few tournaments ever since he left Korea. People are saying "cruncher" shouldn't talk like that, but IdrA speaks the same way of his opponents when he himself has consistently performed at a mediocre level at best. The double standards of IdrA fans never ceases to amaze me. They love it when he BM but when he gets BM people say it's "too much" or "IdrA is still better". As far as I can tell Morrow may end up being a better than zerg than he is if he continues to progress.
On March 29 2011 12:26 Zicco wrote: cruncher is terrible, i hate to tell everyone. idra probably didnt practice at all for it and took him too lightly. idra is 100000x the player cruncher is =/
Yeah Idra didn't practice for a TSL3 match, that's gotta be it.
Hahaha CrunCher! Amazing interview; no sugarcoating that relationship.. And so much for a walkover .. geez! Such a shame to see TLO and HayprO going out in the Ro32 but congratulations to NaDa and Kas!
As for mondy.. well i wouldn't be surprised to see him make the Ro8 as well
I can't wait until a year or two from now when IdrA is still doing his thing and no one even remembers who cruncher was. Great interviews and tournament. Such amazing production. TL ftw. Sad that there is a break this weekend, I guess MLG will have to do
And cruncher...wow lol. Pretty blunt. I guess I mostly agree with him but I'm not sure if he should be the one shit talking with so few results thus far.
I think Cruncher is only being BM because of Idra's attitude towards him in SoTG and the prematch interviews. I would be very surprised (and disappointed) if Cruncher acts the same way towards Mondragon (assuming he beats him).
Cruncher is just as arrogant as idra but idra does it to boost his confidence while cruncher does it just to be a jerk. He beats him in 1 tourney and automatically assumes he is 100000x better then idra.
Great recap and interviews again. Love the responses by NaDa, it seems like he really prepared for TLO's style. Or at least took it into account in his preparation.
On March 29 2011 11:49 tetracycloide wrote: Not being intimidated by being marked as a huge underdog is one thing and it is undeniable that it's a valuable skill any tournament. Not respecting a hugely favored player that absolutely manhandles you with a strategy you 'knew' was coming and practiced against is quite another and it says a lot more about cruncher than it does about idra.
On March 29 2011 11:45 ReaperX wrote: [Cruncher]'s actually pretty professional with his interviews too.
Clearly you don't mean this interview. It is hardly professional to make every other response about how much you want to make your opponent 'rage' because you 'don't respect him.' That's not the behavior of a professional. That's the attitude of a troll, to induce as much rage as possible. He's no more professional than idra was in his pre-game interview. I'm all for the logic of 'return in kind' but let's call this what it is and not delude ourselves just because he managed to take a best of 3 off idra.
I feel the same way. Two wrongs do not make a right. Simple as that.
I was cheering for IdrA to win between the two. His style of play is very solid and it's something that I try to mimic when I'm playing Zerg (probably because I played BW and I feel that sound and fundamentally strong play means consistent success in BW, but we have yet to see this in SC2 - so much more randomness and volatile as pros and the community has been saying).
I guess you can call me a fan of IdrA's Zerg, not IdrA himself. IdrA's BM is fine when he is playing on ladder or playing custom games. But when it comes to tournaments and being unprofessional, I hate his attitude, tbh.
After the games on Sunday and seeing the trash talk between the games from IdrA, I was kind of glad that IdrA got what he deserved, but after seeing this interview, I feel Cruncher stooped down to IdrA's level and both are equally unprofessional, arrogant and cocky.
I will be cheering my heart out for the Mondragon in the next series, no doubt - humble and such inspiring play. Take out that protoss - demolish his abusive strats and show the true power of the swarm! Your zergling runby's will never be forgotten <3
On March 29 2011 12:36 Razzah wrote: Cruncher is just as arrogant as idra but idra does it to boost his confidence while cruncher does it just to be a jerk. He beats him in 1 tourney and automatically assumes he is 100000x better then idra.
Yea Cruncher is coming off as extremely annoying and childish in these interviews. The "yea i totally got him to rage bro" attitude needs to go away if cruncher wants to stick around...
Thanks for the interview guys. Isn't IdrA awesome? For someone who claims that personality is irrelevant in a videogame tournament he sure does get the drama rolling. (Inadvertently?)
On March 29 2011 12:36 Razzah wrote: Cruncher is just as arrogant as idra but idra does it to boost his confidence while cruncher does it just to be a jerk. He beats him in 1 tourney and automatically assumes he is 100000x better then idra.
I would be very surprised if Cruncher is like this to anyone that isn't Idra. He's going directly after Idra in those responses and no one else. Idra(SPECIFICALLY) deserves every bit of it for everything he said leading up to and during the match. He brought this on himself.
haha Idra Fanboy Syndrome has got to be one of the funniest diseases ever...
Cruncher winning gives him the last word in the smack talk. That's the prize. Everyone does know Idra is overrated (last major tournament win/high placement?) though and when you BM on top of that, you should expect trolling when you mess up.
Guaranteed Cruncher's pre-Mondragon match interview will be far more polite because Mondragon is super polite and humble.
Lol too bad Cruncher won't get any further. Laugh all you want, IdrA has made more bank than this guy. Last time I checked, I think Cruncher has $500 in winning <-- thats right. FIVE HUNDRED.
On March 29 2011 11:55 motbob wrote: Cruncher's interview reminds me a lot of Silver's interview after he beat Idra.
I think I see what you did there. It's so subtle that I can't be sure!
Upsets are fun and exciting, and I appreciate that Cruncher provided one for us. All this bravado is a big turn off as a potential fan, though. A recent good showing and a Bo3 just doesn't feel like enough to badmouth any of the longstanding staples.
On March 29 2011 12:19 justdweezil wrote: Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
People blow Idra's "rage" way out of proportion... venting a little frustration or speaking your mind is not a very big deal,
People blow Idra's rage out of proportion? Idra's? Are you serious?
On March 29 2011 12:26 Zicco wrote: cruncher is terrible, i hate to tell everyone. idra probably didnt practice at all for it and took him too lightly. idra is 100000x the player cruncher is =/
Look, let's just say for the sake of argument that Idra was a better player than Cruncher, or that he has more skill. There's more to competitive gaming than just being good at the game in a vacuum scenario. Being able to keep your emotions in check and not go on tilt, and not underestimating your opponent are two very important skills to have. Idra may be very skilled at the game, but he's fucking horrendous at the other two things I just mentioned, so overall, how skilled can you really say he is? It doesn't matter if he was 100 times the player Cruncher is, if Idra's flaws lead him to be over-confident and that leads to him losing, I don't see how you can say he's a better competitive player.
I feel like I'm alone in this, but I'm just not at all interested in the IdrA/CrunCher drama. I am so much more into the Return of the Mondragon. I would much prefer for players to act more like he does. He's able to be humble, hilarious, and good manner all at the same time. Moreover, I love that he talks about how much he likes playing ZvP while every other Zerg in the world would prefer to be talking about imbalance in the matchup (and I am not taking a personal stance on the existence of imbalance. I just think his is a much better mindset for a player to have).
Gogo Mondragon! May you crunch (pun intended) all in your path!
I still thought IdrA played better than Cruncher in 2 out of the 3 games.
Though IdrA lost game 1 (which he should have won) for being himself. He was too passive, and let Cruncher turtle and get up an almost invincible composition. IdrA really needs experiment with aggressive Zerg play. (even tho hes dismissed it)
While no ones really mastered it, i do believe theres a way to play aggressive Zerg where your not all in or playing gimmicky. You can be a Macro Zerg, while being aggressive, constantly whittling your opponents army, production and eco. Until you can break him. (if this truly doesn't work, then i would say the game is imba)
That said i wasn't impressed at all by Crunchers play. He just didn't play impressively. I feel that IdrA's play won and lost every game.
On March 29 2011 12:27 Bear4188 wrote: Cruncher is a straight shooter, nice. Kind of like IdrA in that actually. Difference being he still respects all opponents.
[...] But I have zero respect for a player like Idra.
On March 29 2011 12:11 adeezy wrote: People always say "one of the best players in the world" for IdrA but he hasn't performed as of lately. And he's been in quite a few tournaments ever since he left Korea. People are saying "cruncher" shouldn't talk like that, but IdrA speaks the same way of his opponents when he himself has consistently performed at a mediocre level at best. The double standards of IdrA fans never ceases to amaze me. They love it when he BM but when he gets BM people say it's "too much" or "IdrA is still better". As far as I can tell Morrow may end up being a better than zerg than he is if he continues to progress.
IdrA chose that path and followed it with good results. He's been a consistent player and always one of the best in the scene.
If CrunCher wants to come up as an equally BM player, let him. But to say IdrA is overrated is just rediculous, especially when CrunCher hasn't attained the same stature as IdrA.
I've already made up my mind that I can't support CrunCher as a fan. This interview was just distasteful. He took the low road with his answers just to "make IdrA rage".
I didn't follow BW so I didn't know anything about Mondragon before this tournament, but now I know why he is so loved. So humble, taking it one game at a time. I'm a fan.
Also, I dunno why anyone would be into Cruncher. If he really wanted to make IdrA look bad, he wouldn't make such a big deal of beating him. He had a great opportunity to show that he was the bigger man and not take part in the drama. Instead he's taking screenshots of everything IdrA says, and going out of his way to look like just another immature "umadbro?" gamer you can find in any online games. IdrA has proven himself and this guy, as of right now, is probably just a flash in the pan.
On March 29 2011 13:08 byce wrote: I didn't follow BW so I didn't know anything about Mondragon before this tournament, but now I know why he is so loved. So humble, taking it one game at a time. I'm a fan.
Also, I dunno why anyone would be into Cruncher. If he really wanted to make IdrA look bad, he wouldn't make such a big deal of beating him. He had a great opportunity to show that he was the bigger man and not take part in the drama. Instead he's taking screenshots of everything IdrA says, and going out of his way to look like just another immature "umadbro?" gamer you can find in any online games. IdrA has proven himself and this guy, as of right now, is probably just a flash in the pan.
On March 29 2011 12:57 hadhubhi wrote: I feel like I'm alone in this, but I'm just not at all interested in the IdrA/CrunCher drama. I am so much more into the Return of the Mondragon. I would much prefer for players to act more like he does. He's able to be humble, hilarious, and good manner all at the same time. Moreover, I love that he talks about how much he likes playing ZvP while every other Zerg in the world would prefer to be talking about imbalance in the matchup (and I am not taking a personal stance on the existence of imbalance. I just think his is a much better mindset for a player to have).
Gogo Mondragon! May you crush (pun intended) all in your path!
I totally agree with this.
"my ZvT used to be the worst ZvT Europe has ever seen." haha, Mondragon is so awesome.
Terrible interview by Cruncher. He cheeses IdrA just to see him rage? What? How immature can someone be? I was expecting Cruncher to be more professional and humble. Now he's coming off as a kid who won against a big name and immediately jumped onto some high horse that's actually nonexistent. And then he calls IdrA extremely overrated and "if he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"? lol. Has Cruncher won anything? IdrA's been around for a while now and has been very consistent.
Cruncher seems very childish and arrogant after winning one series. It seems he's riding the high of the currently strong PvZ matchup. It's like when Silver beat IdrA. And Silver's still around and winning tournaments, while IdrA just disappeared.. oh wait.
cruncher, i dislike. very. much. most. hated. player idra will smash him in the future. cant believe he said idra was over rated, with so much sucess, i dont see how hes over rated at all. not to mention crunchers wins being based completely off map/race abuse.
Kas the classy guy, i like that. Cruncher sounded a bit childish in the interview, but still a funny read. Mondragon and his eternal humbleness and well, NaDa is NaDa.
On March 29 2011 13:11 Swixi wrote: Terrible interview by Cruncher. He cheeses IdrA just to see him rage? What? How immature can someone be? I was expecting Cruncher to be more professional and humble. Now he's coming off as a kid who won against a big name and immediately jumped onto some high horse that's actually nonexistent. And then he calls IdrA extremely overrated and "if he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"? lol. Has Cruncher won anything? IdrA's been around for a while now and has been very consistent.
Cruncher seems very childish and arrogant after winning one series. It seems he's riding the high of the currently strong PvZ matchup. It's like when Silver beat IdrA. And Silver's still around and winning tournaments, while IdrA just disappeared.. oh wait.
In CrunCher's defense he has won a string of recent showmatches in dominating fashion. Not the greatest credentials to have beside your name, but it's something.
Not respecting a hugely favored player that absolutely manhandles you with a strategy you 'knew' was coming and practiced against is quite another and it says a lot more about cruncher than it does about idra.
Being hugely favoured and winning one game does not demand respect. It is not for a lack of skill that cruncher disrespects idra, but a lack of manner, or honour. It doesn't take a big man to admit defeat in a game of starcraft. Idra's lack of 'gg' shows what a small disrespectful "man" he is.
Off topic but Testie plays sc2? That's pretty interesting to me.
Pulling this basically off the top of my head but is Mondragon the last zerg in the tournament? He went wayyyyy further than I had ever expected in TSL2. I don't know if it's even possible but a Tyler/Mondragon final makes me feel all warm inside.
Holy cow Nada is good. Maybe I'm just a noob, but when I was watching that G3 vs TLO I couldn't believe he suspected that expansion timing from TLO, but his quote in the interview "I expected his strategy after I saw that he wasn't getting an Orbital Command at his main base." made me actually go "wow" out loud. He figured it out with such little information. Love this game so much lol.
Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player.
Relatively unaccomplished protoss player calling one of the best players in the world, who has proven his ability time and time again, overrated? ell oh ell.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I think he should wait until he wins an actual event before he talks like that. He's being just as rude as the player he is criticizing.
I think in terms of rudeness idra is about as bad as it gets.
On March 29 2011 12:11 adeezy wrote: People always say "one of the best players in the world" for IdrA but he hasn't performed as of lately. And he's been in quite a few tournaments ever since he left Korea. People are saying "cruncher" shouldn't talk like that, but IdrA speaks the same way of his opponents when he himself has consistently performed at a mediocre level at best. The double standards of IdrA fans never ceases to amaze me. They love it when he BM but when he gets BM people say it's "too much" or "IdrA is still better". As far as I can tell Morrow may end up being a better than zerg than he is if he continues to progress.
IdrA chose that path and followed it with good results. He's been a consistent player and always one of the best in the scene.
If CrunCher wants to come up as an equally BM player, let him. But to say IdrA is overrated is just rediculous, especially when CrunCher hasn't attained the same stature as IdrA.
I've already made up my mind that I can't support CrunCher as a fan. This interview was just distasteful. He took the low road with his answers just to "make IdrA rage".
i say NFL players are overrated all the time, but i'm not of NFL caliber. You can say someone isn't as good as they're given credit for without being better than them. If everyone thought cruncher was the best in the world YOU (even though you can't beat him) would easily say no way, he's overrrated. You don't need a phd, GSL championship, certificate, etc. to say someone is overrated... It's their raw skill vs. the skill people give them credit for... and lately, idra has definitely been overrated.. What has he done in the past 1-2months to be considered one of the best players in the world?
The most hilarious thing is the idra fans. When Idra BM, qq, and rage, they are all like "he cares about the game" and "he is honest and just expressing his feeling". When anyone else do it to Idra, they are like "how BM, learn some manner". Double standard?
@CPMONey: PLEASE read his explanation. Man Do idra fans just not read... He said he knew it was coming but he didn't know the timing of the drop.
It's interesting how there are two types of people who dislike CrunCher: People who dislike his attitude and his internet troll approach to his interview, and very obvious IdrA fans who spout off bullshit like:
idra will smash him in the future. cant believe he said idra was over rated, with so much sucess, i dont see how hes over rated at all. not to mention crunchers wins being based completely off map/race abuse.
I accept and even partially agree with the first type, even though I came into this match and left it hating IdrA and hoping for him to loose () but the second type just annoys me. Just because IdrA can't deal with Protoss timing attacks or voidray colossus, it doesn't mean that it's completely imba.
Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player.
Relatively unaccomplished protoss player calling one of the best players in the world, who has proven his ability time and time again, overrated? ell oh ell.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I think he should wait until he wins an actual event before he talks like that. He's being just as rude as the player he is criticizing.
That "relatively unaccomplished Protoss player" beat "one of the best players in the world" in a BoX series. If that isn't an accomplishment, then maybe IdrA isn't one of the best players in the world. And that just confirms Cruncher's statement that IdrA is overrated. All that really matters is that Cruncher is in the Ro16 in the TSL and IdrA is not.
Oh man, never really followed/watched cruncher before, however, anyone who makes Idra rage has got a fan in me haha. GG GL in the rest of the tourney Cruncher, i'll be rooting for you haha
That "relatively unaccomplished Protoss player" beat "one of the best players in the world" in a BoX series. If that isn't an accomplishment, then maybe IdrA isn't one of the best players in the world .
Someone should tell Cruncher than when you are laughing at an opponent and saying he's terrible and predictable for being bad mannered then you are being bad mannered yourself and look a tad hypocritical.
What disrespectful player is cruncher, why would he dare saying those lies about idrA. , I know for a fact idra is the better player and Bo5 does not prove anything, idra can rape this easy mode/abuser toss player anyday. Anyways sucks when skill matters. I have no respect for players abusing broken.............fill in the blank
On March 29 2011 13:53 FALAPARK wrote: What disrespectful player is cruncher, why would he dare saying those lies about idrA. , I know for a fact idra is the better player and Bo5 does not prove anything, idra can rape this easy mode/abuser toss player anyday. Anyways sucks when skill matters. I have no respect for players abusing broken.............fill in the blank
Q: Oh, so you'd rather play him in Brood War if you had a choice?
Haha, in BW I would not have a chance anyway since my ZvT used to be the worst ZvT Europe has ever seen.
if only Mondi's zvt was as good as Octzerg's
haha, I totally forgot about that.
What happened to Octzerg, anyway? Is he playing SC2?
Nah, from what I know OctZerg is still playing SC1, either because of living in Macedonia with a godawful connection/computer, or because he can't win games with lings alone in SC2.
I don't get why everyone is hating on Cruncher. Idra said he would be a walkover, said he was a cheese-only player, and then proceeded to talk shit between games in the lobby. (There's screen shot evidence in the Live Report thread for those who don't want to believe.) If you beat a player who talked that much shit and then lost to you, all the while not showing you any respect, I think you're entitled to a good, hearty laugh when it's over. For chrissake, haven't you guys ever beaten BMers who talk shit on ladder? It's SUCH a great feeling!
If his worst crime is a little "", I think that's perfectly understandable. If Idra would just act like a professional and treat other people with a little respect, this kind of shit wouldn't happen to him.
On March 29 2011 13:42 hitman133 wrote: Cruncher is not a dick, IdrA was, is, and will always be a dick. I think I like Cruncher's interview here.
Yeah Cruncher isn't a massive douche for this interview, okay. It was amazingly disrespectful from a guy who popped up around the same time protosses figured out how to abuse the game. He's Silver 2.0 and if you can't tell the difference between IdrA's disrespect and CrunCher's disrespect then you are probably lacking in mental faculties.
To the people who somehow think what CrunCher said was warranted please realise that IdrA has proved over many years how good/consistent of a player he is. CrunCher in a nobody in WC3 and appeared out of nowhere here and is super cheesy on ladder as well, IdrA was extremely rude with how he put it yes I agree but CrunCher is being just ridiculous with this interview and all of you are letting your anti-IdrA emotions get in the way of appraising CrunCher.
we defend idra because of what we see from him frequently. Not to mention this was patch 1.2.2...
I'd like to see cruncher try and do that voidray collosi stalker ball against a couple infestors... 1 fungal will hit 3 collosi, 5 voids, and 6-8 stalkers. 47x3 + 47x5 + 47x7 = ? i'm busy with my midterm paper and just taking a break so i wont waste my time with that but it's a lot haha. Just a couple infestors in that game 1 would've made it a joke. And game 2 just showed how much of a better player idrA is. Prior to idrA's attack, when both players were just macroing, IdrA had 112 supply to Cruncher's 58 supply.
people like me defend IdrA because he's clearly the better player but there was no counter to voidray/collosi/stalker deathball in patch 1.2.2.
the forcefields in game 3 were sexy tho so he deserved to win that game. however, Game 1 and 2 displayed the skill gap between IdrA and Cruncher.
in an ideal world void of imbalances and solely based on skill, IdrA would've won 2-1.
grats to Cruncher for his 15 minutes of fame though.
Cruncher has won me over as a fan. Even though his play wasn't as creative in the games vs Idra as they usually are on his stream, it was still awesome to see Idra rage
"Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"
Incredibly disrespectful coming from a nobody. Considering he has a final fantasy x signature on that wc replay forum, I guess he is just a child still
Mondragon - Worst ZvT in Europe; beat top progamers (sea).
Although Idra had it coming, I would've liked Cruncher better had he not resorted to SS's before the matches and taking so many shots at Idra at every possible chance.
On March 29 2011 14:05 LesPhoques wrote: Cruncher won me as a fan for being straight up honest dude without rage and having respect. His words about IdrA cannot be said better lol
This doesn't even make any sense. CrunCher showed no respect whatsoever and his words about IdrA aren't even true? He's calling one of the foreigners with a lot of consistent success in both BW and SC2 as overrated while he himself is a random nobody with no achievements in WC3? I don't get how people are so in love with CrunCher or the kids who just want to see IdrA rage.
I like Idra, but I also love Cruncher's interview. I hate all people who complain about it as BM. Hey, guess what? No gg and "he'll be a walkover" is BM. I enjoy it all the same. ^_^ I think it's about time SC2 had some epic rivalries. After all, Idra left Korea, so no more Idra/Zenio.
stop trolling about idra and cruncher. i just read that mondragon trained with testie, would love to see him too in some tounament.hopefully mondi gets into the nasl aswell cause his style was so refreshing.and that is say as protoss. mondi hwaiting
On March 29 2011 14:07 syllogism wrote: "Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"
Incredibly disrespectful coming from a nobody. Considering he has a final fantasy x signature on that wc replay forum, I guess he is just a child still
I think he has a point though, one of the problems with being a 100% mechanically focused player is that you need to keep your mechanics near a perfect level to win and that takes a lot of practice (though not as much in sc2 as in scbw, but still). A more strategically focused player (like Goody) can get away with less practice while still getting good results.
On March 29 2011 14:00 GeorgeForeman wrote: I don't get why everyone is hating on Cruncher. Idra said he would be a walkover, said he was a cheese-only player, and then proceeded to talk shit between games in the lobby. (There's screen shot evidence in the Live Report thread for those who don't want to believe.) If you beat a player who talked that much shit and then lost to you, all the while not showing you any respect, I think you're entitled to a good, hearty laugh when it's over. For chrissake, haven't you guys ever beaten BMers who talk shit on ladder? It's SUCH a great feeling!
If his worst crime is a little "", I think that's perfectly understandable. If Idra would just act like a professional and treat other people with a little respect, this kind of shit wouldn't happen to him.
Yeah and who knows how far this all goes back as well from ladder games, the interview is a bit cocky but it seems fully justified.
People are blowing it way out of proportion as if it sums up Cruncher's who character, we know what Idra is like based over a long period of time, this is just one interview under certain circumstances; I am sure this is the one and only occasion he would disrespect anyone like this.
Totally doubt he would do it to any other player or it will become a pattern, if it does he loses me as a fan.
All the Cruncher/Idra drama was quite funny and this interview was pretty entertaining, but I seriously hope that Mondragon will crunch Cruncher and show the power of the swarm.
IdrA earned his medicine there. He's got to eat his words and that's that.
However, Cruncher would do well to not let his mouth run too much, IdrA has beat him in tournaments and on ladder before and will probably do it again. What Goes around comes around, it came back to IdrA and will eventually make its way back to Cruncher.
cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
I think the whole Crucher-Idra thing shows a serious problem with SC2 and I have to agree with all the people defending Idra.
Clearly, Idra should have won. What we need is a different system. They still play three games, but a panel of judges should decide who the better player is, kind of like figure skating. That will prevent things like this in the future because if judges decide who won the match it will avoid travesties like this in the future and Idra will probably never lose ever again because he is so awesome. Having the result be dependent on who actually wins the game is unfair and I feel bad for Idra for having to lose to people so beneath him.
On March 29 2011 14:07 syllogism wrote: "Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"
Incredibly disrespectful coming from a nobody. Considering he has a final fantasy x signature on that wc replay forum, I guess he is just a child still
I think he has a point though, one of the problems with being a 100% mechanically focused player is that you need to keep your mechanics near a perfect level to win and that takes a lot of practice (though not as much in sc2 as in scbw, but still). A more strategically focused player (like Goody) can get away with less practice while still getting good results.
He has to be, and indeed anyone else, completely clueless to say that, which isn't exactly surprising because he is just a nobody and didn't play BW. You flat out don't understand the game and zerg if you think he isn't "strategically focused". Goody is a terrible example as you might have a point if strategically focused meant all-innin randomly, which Goody particularly doesn't do and generally does the same builds every game. Terran is also the most flexible race.
Note that I'm a Goody fan, so not hating or him or anything
Cruncher isn't BM. He's putting someone who is EXTREMELY BM in their place. If anything he is a hero.
At the risk of going off topic that is horrendous logic. If someone steals my car it's ok for me to go and steal their car as it's not actually stealing I'm just putting them in their place?
On March 29 2011 14:20 MeatlessTaco wrote: I think the whole Crucher-Idra thing shows a serious problem with SC2 and I have to agree with all the people defending Idra.
Clearly, Idra should have won. What we need is a different system. They still play three games, but a panel of judges should decide who the better player is, kind of like figure skating. That will prevent things like this in the future because if judges decide who won the match it will avoid travesties like this in the future and Idra will probably never lose ever again because he is so awesome. Having the result be dependent on who actually wins the game is unfair and I feel bad for Idra for having to lose to people so beneath him.
On March 29 2011 13:42 hitman133 wrote: Cruncher is not a dick, IdrA was, is, and will always be a dick. I think I like Cruncher's interview here.
Yeah Cruncher isn't a massive douche for this interview, okay. It was amazingly disrespectful from a guy who popped up around the same time protosses figured out how to abuse the game. He's Silver 2.0 and if you can't tell the difference between IdrA's disrespect and CrunCher's disrespect then you are probably lacking in mental faculties.
To the people who somehow think what CrunCher said was warranted please realise that IdrA has proved over many years how good/consistent of a player he is. CrunCher in a nobody in WC3 and appeared out of nowhere here and is super cheesy on ladder as well, IdrA was extremely rude with how he put it yes I agree but CrunCher is being just ridiculous with this interview and all of you are letting your anti-IdrA emotions get in the way of appraising CrunCher.
I am intrigued on how Idra's BM is different from Cruncher's BM?
Is it just me, or does Cruncher's interview come off as showing him as a huge troll?
I can understand the feeling of beating someone you don't like, but he makes the interview look like he's just trying to lord his e-penis over Idra, which I don't think he has any right to over a single BO3 game, and it makes him look like a gigantic douchebag.
Idra kinda had that one comming TBH, he showed Cruncher no respect in his pregame interview and BM'd him the whole match. He was a good player back in the day, but these days, his talk doesnt match his game.
On March 29 2011 13:42 hitman133 wrote: Cruncher is not a dick, IdrA was, is, and will always be a dick. I think I like Cruncher's interview here.
Yeah Cruncher isn't a massive douche for this interview, okay. It was amazingly disrespectful from a guy who popped up around the same time protosses figured out how to abuse the game. He's Silver 2.0 and if you can't tell the difference between IdrA's disrespect and CrunCher's disrespect then you are probably lacking in mental faculties.
To the people who somehow think what CrunCher said was warranted please realise that IdrA has proved over many years how good/consistent of a player he is. CrunCher in a nobody in WC3 and appeared out of nowhere here and is super cheesy on ladder as well, IdrA was extremely rude with how he put it yes I agree but CrunCher is being just ridiculous with this interview and all of you are letting your anti-IdrA emotions get in the way of appraising CrunCher.
I am intrigued on how Idra's BM is different from Cruncher's BM?
Agreed. Saying that playing a particular person is the same as getting a walkover is pretty much as dirty as you can get when it comes to trash talk. I am sure it is our 'anti-IdRA emotions' getting in the way of our appraisal of the situation, and not your 'hot-for-IdRa emotions'.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference. I'm sorry that IdrA makes you so angry ploy, but some of us don't let our (probably rational) dislikes of people blind us to the flaws of others. I never said IdrA's BM is acceptable in any way, it's also rude and unacceptable but CrunCher really went above and beyond for being a massive douchebag.
Cant wait to see Kas vs Nada! Kas is such a baller!
btw Cruncher showing zero respect...sounds like someone wants to get known by bming like idra...hopefully he will be good mannered against his next opponent...and this will be mighty Mondragon :D
1. Idra seemed to go out of his way, even for idra, to talk about how terrible Cruncher was before they played. The TL interview, SoTG, he made it clear in no uncertain terms that he thinks Cruncher is terrible. The implication, obviously, is that idra is so great that they shouldn't even need to play the games. Idra continues his BM throughout their series, including in the lobbies between games.
At this point, how would you react once you won? Wouldn't you want to put that punk in his place? I'm pretty sure I would. It's self-evident that Idra's bravado was ridiculous and misplaced; why shouldn't Cruncher defend himself and say as much?
2. This trolling is 100% a smart strategy to use against idra.
You see this in all sports. If a center in a basketball game gets angry when he thinks he's getting fouled, you bang him all night. If he's whining to the refs, he's off his game.
In the same way, idra has shown us that he has the emotional maturity of a second grader (and not one of the calm ones). If you were likely going to play him in the future, wouldn't you want to throw him off his game? I think cheesing him on the ladder is great. It's almost better if the cheese doesn't work, it still elicits a reaction. When the games started, idra was clearly devoting some of his brainpower to being angry at his cheesy noob opponent. That mental energy could have been better spent on preventing him from getting a 200/200 deathball.
On March 29 2011 14:24 kethers wrote: Is it just me, or does Cruncher's interview come off as showing him as a huge troll?
I can understand the feeling of beating someone you don't like, but he makes the interview look like he's just trying to lord his e-penis over Idra, which I don't think he has any right to over a single BO3 game, and it makes him look like a gigantic douchebag.
He was basically speaking directly to Idra in that interview. So yes, he was being a troll since Idra was a huge douche to him up to and throughout the matches. And while it was "ONLY" a BO3 it was a pretty freaking important BO3 and in a tournament everyone wants to win.
The ironic thing is Cruncher was doing the same thing in games 1&2, did the same voidray colossu builds against idra on justin.tv invitational (and lost, while playing terribly), and seems to do it all the time on ladder. What an extremely predictable player, wouldn't you say
On March 29 2011 14:27 syllogism wrote: The ironic thing is Cruncher was doing the same thing in games 1&2, did the same voidray colossu builds against idra on justin.tv invitational (and lost, while playing terribly), and seems to do it all the time on ladder. What an extremely predictable player, wouldn't you say
The irony is that Idra predicted two 4gates all in
On March 29 2011 14:25 WrentheFaceless wrote: Idra kinda had that one comming TBH, he showed Cruncher no respect in his pregame interview and BM'd him the whole match. He was a good player back in the day, but these days, his talk doesnt match his game.
At the risk of looking like an IdrA fanboy let me just remind you that in the last year IdrA, won an MLG and went to GSL Ro8 (in addition to other respectable finishes). Since returning to America he beat Jinro in ace Match of the GCPL Bronze match and has like a 75% win ratio on ladder. I think IdrA is still doing fine.
He was cocky and he lost to Cruncher and now he has to eat his words. IdrA deserves to be made fun of for that, but to say that IdrA is not performing well because he lost to Cruncher (after he won a single Bo3) doesn't compute. Especially since Idra 2:1'd Cruncher in a different league that same week.
I'll say it again, congrats to Cruncher, he won, but he should be careful about how much he runs his mouth because what goes around comes around. It came back to IdrA and it will come back to him.
On March 29 2011 14:07 syllogism wrote: "Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player"
Incredibly disrespectful coming from a nobody. Considering he has a final fantasy x signature on that wc replay forum, I guess he is just a child still
I think he has a point though, one of the problems with being a 100% mechanically focused player is that you need to keep your mechanics near a perfect level to win and that takes a lot of practice (though not as much in sc2 as in scbw, but still). A more strategically focused player (like Goody) can get away with less practice while still getting good results.
He has to be, and indeed anyone else, completely clueless to say that, which isn't exactly surprising because he is just a nobody and didn't play BW. You flat out don't understand the game and zerg if you think he isn't "strategically focused". Goody is a terrible example as you might have a point if strategically focused meant all-innin randomly, which Goody particularly doesn't do and generally does the same builds every game. Terran is also the most flexible race.
Note that I'm a Goody fan, so not hating or him or anything
Look at game 1, if you think Idra was playing strategically correct, then I have no clue what you are thinking. Sitting back and waiting while protoss gets a deathball going and then engaging said death on your own side of the map is just weird. I don't think anyone would deny that zergs have been having an extremely tough time dealing with protoss lately, but that doesn't make Idras decisions any better.
When did I say that strategy was about randomly all-inning? The reason I picked Goody is because he is a low-apm, not-so-mechanical player who plays a style that is heavily focused on strategy and tactics, you don't need 300 apm to micro when you play a tank-based style, you need positioning and decision making. You can easily play the same opening every game and still be a strategical player, it comes down to what decisions you make, my gripe with Idras style from a strategical standpoint isn't that he does the same openings every game, it's that you can always predict what he is going to do. You can assume he is going to play the way that makes him the most safe while establishing an economy which makes it easy to do things like the 3 fast base build used by Jinro and Thorzain, what happened when Jinro did it against another zerg? He got baneling busted twice and lost, I just can't see Idra ever doing that.
Not all all impressed with cruncher. Seems to have a pretty delusional opinion of himself vs idra. I'd have agree with the cruncher/silver comparisons.
I love how all of Idra's new SC2 fans are so quick to downplay his BM and immaturity and call it funny, but when someone does it back to him they cry so hard.
Basically proves that you guys aren't quite the "thick-skinned" individuals you're always telling Idra's anti-fans to be. The best part is if you guys knew anything about Idra's progaming history you'd know that this kind of drama is going to keep happening over and over again. Get used to it.
Oh and thanks to Idra and Cruncher for the entertainment, GG to both. Honestly Idra doesn't annoy me half as much as his 12 year old fanboys do.
On March 29 2011 14:35 Slow Motion wrote: I love how all of Idra's new SC2 fans are so quick to downplay his BM and immaturity and call it funny, but when someone does it back to him they cry so hard.
Basically proves that you guys aren't quite the "thick-skinned" individuals you're always telling Idra's anti-fans to be. The best part is if you guys knew anything about Idra's progaming history you'd know that this kind of drama is going to keep happening over and over again. Get used to it.
Oh and thanks to Idra and Cruncher for the entertainment, GG to both. Honestly Idra doesn't annoy me half as much as his 12 year old fanboys do.
Don't generalise. Some of us don't enjoy it when IdrA talks shit - it detracts from the games and it attracts too many idiot children.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
Strange that this was played in 1.2 with both players residing in the US, as scheduling should be easy. Game 1 void ray abuse would've looked much different post patch, but serves idrA right as he was arrogant enough to not delay his games.
Edit: I see that they didnt include the corruptor change in the patch, only on ptr. My bad.
CrunCher comes off as a kid. Yeah idra is BM, but he is blunt and honest atleast. Not just a troll.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
I edited my post to clarify that I didn't think IdrA's disrespect was fair game, don't put words in my mouth please. How was going mutas abusive? People were beating it back then even when it first came out, that was an instance of bad diamond players not knowing how to play the game. Also if I recall IdrA has made reference to how easy it was to with 1 supply 2 armor roaches, not to mention that when he used to play protoss in beta he jokingly said that he lost all his BW skill because he had been playing too much protoss.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
When the hell were mutas owerpowered ? Surely not some months ago, they always were bad.
Why is everyone getting on their moral high horses and bringing up respect left and right? I enjoy IdrA's smack talk because it makes the games more interesting, whether he wins or loses. I loved the way Cruncher came back at him and made him eat his words. Because of school and other commitments, I don't have the time to sit down for 7 or 8 hours at a time and watch every match of the TSL, but I made a point to watch their match because of IdrA's pre-game comments. Who cares if they don't respect each other? In fact, I'm glad they don't like each other because it's this type of attitude that breeds rivalries and fuels great games and competition. The next time these two meet up in a tournament, there will be that much more build up, excitement, and intensity for both the players and the fans.
Arguing about Crucher versus Idra and whatever BM you think they did should be a bannable offense in this thread. How do you expect any other sort of discussion to go on about the other players and their interviews? It's a very poisonous topic if you ask me and it's stopping more in depth discussion about other deserving players.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
I edited my post to clarify that I didn't think IdrA's disrespect was fair game, don't put words in my mouth please. How was going mutas abusive? People were beating it back then even when it first came out, that was an instance of bad diamond players not knowing how to play the game. Also if I recall IdrA has made reference to how easy it was to with 1 supply 2 armor roaches, not to mention that when he used to play protoss in beta he jokingly said that he lost all his BW skill because he had been playing too much protoss.
Mutas 3-4 month ago dominated protoss before 6 gate timing was discovered. B.net forums/Teamliquid forums had a lot of threads of toss asking for help versus mutas play. GSL during that time(think it was GSL 2 or 3), toss had a 20-30% win percentage versus zerg. Litterally every zerg was going 2 base mutaling into 3-4 base ultra/ling or just mass mutas.
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
I edited my post to clarify that I didn't think IdrA's disrespect was fair game, don't put words in my mouth please. How was going mutas abusive? People were beating it back then even when it first came out, that was an instance of bad diamond players not knowing how to play the game. Also if I recall IdrA has made reference to how easy it was to with 1 supply 2 armor roaches, not to mention that when he used to play protoss in beta he jokingly said that he lost all his BW skill because he had been playing too much protoss.
Mutas 3-4 month ago dominated protoss before 6 gate timing was discovered. B.net forums/Teamliquid forums had a lot of threads of toss asking for help versus mutas play. GSL during that time(think it was GSL 2 or 3), toss had a 20-30% win percentage versus zerg. Litterally every zerg was going 2 base mutaling into 3-4 base ultra/ling or just mass mutas.
Are you kidding me, a lot of those toss players were also diamond(or lower) players. Not to mention that that win percentage is really skewed when you had players like FD/NesTea/Check playing against random protosses who have disappeared off the face of the map after that GSL. There were clear skill differences in those games rather than "oh man these flying units are really imbalanced, I don't know how to get blink or make cannons or what a HT even is". 5/6 gate timing was the straw that broke the camel's back, it didn't single handedly make mutas unviable, before that timing was found players were handling muta's just fine.
A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
I'm so conused... how do people not see idra as an open book? Its a show boys and girls check his pocket the cards in there. Jeez its a testament to idras skill as an entertainer to genuinely have cruncher think h is a better person than him. Great stuff as always tl
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
OMG Tree hugger, best post of this whole thread so far. Problem with IdrA fan's is that they are as delusional as the person they admire (Not all of his fans but a good majority of them). And yeah this situation is a painful reminder of the Rekrul Post, it's pretty much word for word the same... and it's been two years??? Sheesh
On March 29 2011 14:19 carbon_based wrote: cruncher really could've dug into idra more, he is overrated, he is arrogant, and he really does nothing that demands someone like cruncher's respect AT ALL. me and almost everyone reading this post should respect idra because he can beat you - bad - at something you care a lot about. the difference is that cruncher is on or at least near his level and can beat him - bad - at something he cares a lot about, and for idra to talk the kind of trash he did was extremely presumptuous and as it turns out, just laughable bravado because he got publicly SMASHED while wailing like a petulant little 12 year old.
Ah yes IdrA with his long list of achievements is overrated versus someone like CrunCher(read: no achievements). People who like IdrA because of his BM/rage are children, the rest of us admire IdrA because when you watch him play and you watch the timings it's absolutely beautiful. Then we see someone like CrunCher who plays flavour of the month abuse and then thinks he's a legitimate player, the hypocrisy is overwhelming and the people who are defending CrunCher are delusional.
IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler). CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference.
So disrespecting a "nobody" who is using the strength of their race is fair game? When idra was dominating with 1 supply 2 armor roaches was he bming himself "oh I am abusive 1 supply 2 armor roaches, I dont derserve all those wins"? I mean are all the zergs going mutas 3-4 month ago abusive? I seen Idra kill a lot of toss with mutas when it seemed op. Did he bm himself? Was he like "man I don't deserve this win because Im winning with this abusive build".
I edited my post to clarify that I didn't think IdrA's disrespect was fair game, don't put words in my mouth please. How was going mutas abusive? People were beating it back then even when it first came out, that was an instance of bad diamond players not knowing how to play the game. Also if I recall IdrA has made reference to how easy it was to with 1 supply 2 armor roaches, not to mention that when he used to play protoss in beta he jokingly said that he lost all his BW skill because he had been playing too much protoss.
Mutas 3-4 month ago dominated protoss before 6 gate timing was discovered. B.net forums/Teamliquid forums had a lot of threads of toss asking for help versus mutas play. GSL during that time(think it was GSL 2 or 3), toss had a 20-30% win percentage versus zerg. Litterally every zerg was going 2 base mutaling into 3-4 base ultra/ling or just mass mutas.
Are you kidding me, a lot of those toss players were also diamond(or lower) players. Not to mention that that win percentage is really skewed when you had players like FD/NesTea/Check playing against random protosses who have disappeared off the face of the map after that GSL. There were clear skill differences in those games rather than "oh man these flying units are really imbalanced, I don't know how to get blink or make cannons or what a HT even is". 5/6 gate timing was the straw that broke the camel's back, it didn't single handedly make mutas unviable, before that timing was found players were handling just fine.
Are you kidding me? Are you seriously gonna pull the "skill" card? It freaken piss me off when people do that cause it is stupid. Its basically when zerg say "oh show me a reply of a players with skill of equal leve that beat build x" then some guy brings a replay. Zerg people go "oh the toss player is just bad thats why he lost" there is no winning because if the "zerg player" lose it is due to imba but when he won "he just played better or toss just played bad" You see how stupid pulling the "skill" card is?
People were getting blink stalker/cannon, but guess what it doesn't always work being stuck on 2 bases with blink stalker isn't gonna win versus 3-4 bases zerg. Muta are very fast and have you try storming mutas? Storm with its semismall aoe and also have an casting delay to hit the fastest unit in the game.
I'm an idra fan in the sense that I think his bm adds a lot of entertainment value to the game.
But what really won me over was how Cruncher dealt with the whole situation. Cruncher played along and acted his role perfectly. He didn't really say anything in his initial interview (other than he was confident, which many people probably saw as him trying to just pump himself up in a clear underdog situation) but beat idra didn't do his research.
Seeing all the idra fans who come in here and try to take things away from cruncher when idra called the series a walkover and expected him to do 4 gates all series long is pretty pathetic. Yes, Idra is a good macro zerg, but his opponent fooled him well, played decently, and in the end took the series.
Well played Cruncher. Hopefully idra can learn from this and prepare a bit more seriously for his future matches, because he can really overwhelm other players when he's on his game (look at game 2, complete ownage) and doesn't just smash the smaller zerg army into the protoss ball over and over again like he did in game 1.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
That's such an epic post.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a fairly strong possibility that CrunCher and IdrA will face off this weekend at MLG? IN PERSON?
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
semi-balanceQQ: i hate protoss even more than before. WhiteRa made me hate it, and Cruncher pushes it even further. IdrA showed he is much better than his opponent, and still lost. (this is my opinion, no intention to arguing as i am a noob myself)
Now who will stop MC? I dont like him, he is very good, protoss and has a big mouth
Also to tree-hugger: you dont understand the whole stuff, right? The post above me tells everything, i wont write it down.
On March 29 2011 15:15 syllogism wrote: You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
So thats why i dont understand, how ppl can say it was OK wins. Crunchers voids and phenixes did literally nothing, in game1 idra had more army, more expansions, even good composition (corruptor + roach/hydra) and still lost. Now thats what i call wtf.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
SO according you to, nobodies like us on forum and Cruncher deserves no respect from pro players because we haven't accomplished anything? So if Idra goes up to you and "spit on your face and call your mom a whore"(exaggeration) you would be like "oh yea sry I was in your way"?
On March 29 2011 15:16 shinarit wrote: semi-balanceQQ: i hate protoss even more than before. WhiteRa made me hate it, and Cruncher pushes it even further. IdrA showed he is much better than his opponent, and still lost. (this is my opinion, no intention to arguing as i am a noob myself)
Now who will stop MC? I dont like him, he is very good, protoss and has a big mouth
Also to tree-hugger: you dont understand the whole stuff, right? The post above me tells everything, i wont write it down.
On March 29 2011 15:15 syllogism wrote: You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
So thats why i dont understand, how ppl can say it was OK wins. Crunchers voids and phenixes did literally nothing, in game1 idra had more army, more expansions, even good composition (corruptor + roach/hydra) and still lost. Now thats what i call wtf.
win is win, nothing wrong with that. Cruncher didn't cheat, IdrA let the protoss army get bigger, that's his fault.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
SO according you to, nobodies like us and Cruncher on forum deserves no respect from pro players because we haven't accomplished anything? So if Idra goes up to you and spit on your face and call your mom a whore you would be like "oh yea sry I was in your way"?
I also didn't say that and it's worth noting Cruncher did his pregame interview before he saw idra's. Nothing particularly wrong with Cruncher talking some trash after winning, but there's a line between outright lying (saying Idra is "nowhere near a good player when not practicing"), and just laughing at him for saying Cruncher would be a walkover
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
SO according you to, nobodies like us and Cruncher on forum deserves no respect from pro players because we haven't accomplished anything? So if Idra goes up to you and spit on your face and call your mom a whore you would be like "oh yea sry I was in your way"?
I also didn't say that and it's worth noting Cruncher did his pregame interview before he saw idra's. Nothing particularly wrong with Cruncher talking some trash after winning, but there's a line between outright lying (saying Idra is "nowhere near a good player when not practicing"), and just laughing at him for saying Cruncher would be a walkover
You think Idra would be considered a top player if he barely would practise?
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
SO according you to, nobodies like us and Cruncher on forum deserves no respect from pro players because we haven't accomplished anything? So if Idra goes up to you and spit on your face and call your mom a whore you would be like "oh yea sry I was in your way"?
I also didn't say that and it's worth noting Cruncher did his pregame interview before he saw idra's. Nothing particularly wrong with Cruncher talking some trash after winning, but there's a line between outright lying (saying Idra is "nowhere near a good player when not practicing"), and just laughing at him for saying Cruncher would be a walkover
You think Idra would be considered a top player if he barely would practise?
He barely practiced at all during his last few months in korea and he was still doing well in GSL, so apparently so.
cruncher is trying to get as much e-fame of this as possible.He reminds me of a poor version of zenio after he won zvz vs idra and showed 0 results afterwards
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
Nobody? He just beat IdrA in a Bo3 in an important tournament, i think he has earned the right to at least talk back when shit on then, if you noticed he was really humble before the match.
As for game 1, yeah IdrA looked like the mechanicly better player, but Cruncher made better tactical decisions. The game is not just about mechanics, "probes and pylons" and building units and A1A2A3 into the opponent. Mechanincs are probably the most important part but not the only one.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
Nobody? He just beat IdrA in a Bo3 in an important tournament, i think he has earned the right to at least talk back when shit on then, if you noticed he was really humble before the match.
As for game 1, yeah IdrA looked like the mechanicly better player, but Cruncher made better tactical decisions. The game is not just about mechanics, "probes and pylons" and building units and A1A2A3 into the opponent. Mechanincs are probably the most important part but not the only one.
That's pretty arguable because it looked to me like he did an opening that didn't work and then moved his ball around until he hit 200/200 and then a-moved
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
You realize Idra didn't play in any of the games like someone who was expecting a 4gate? That was just pregame trashtalking. Moreover, Cruncher did the same build against him in justin.tv invitational , though it's not quite clear which games were played first. Cruncher's builds were incredibly standard protoss builds and his air openings did literally zero damage, putting idra way ahead in games 1 and 2.
Oh wow, I guess we can also say that Cruncher is just doing "post-game" trashtalking. Trashtalking is the same as BM.
Sure, I wasn't suggesting that it wasn't bad mannered, and I've no idea why you would think I did, though there's a difference when a nobody does it and when a someone who has established himself as a good player does it
Nobody? He just beat IdrA in a Bo3 in an important tournament, i think he has earned the right to at least talk back when shit on then, if you noticed he was really humble before the match.
As for game 1, yeah IdrA looked like the mechanicly better player, but Cruncher made better tactical decisions. The game is not just about mechanics, "probes and pylons" and building units and A1A2A3 into the opponent. Mechanincs are probably the most important part but not the only one.
Like what?
Idra was completely out macroing him the entire game. Cruncher just sat passively until he got his deathball and rolled over everything zerg had. Going void ray and collosi...Cruncher's a genius. Cant wait till he runs into a terran, I'm not surprised he says he wants to face zerg players.
I've been quite a fan of CrunCher for awhile now... I'm not sure why he wasn't noticed before. He was actually the North American representative at BlizzCon this year for War3. He tower rushed both his games and said he was practicing SC2 now. Im glad he's doing well
Nobody? He just beat IdrA in a Bo3 in an important tournament, i think he has earned the right to at least talk back when shit on then, if you noticed he was really humble before the match.
So in other words he is just like one of those sad battle.net ppl who spam trash at u after they've won or insta ignore you if they dont.
Btw its actually quite pathetic that he is trying to leech as much fame from Idra as possible, very transparent. Acting like a true noname, using every little opportunity to promote himself
hmmm so according to idra fans outmacroing your oponent the entire game and not winning is anything but your fault. just because his opening didn't exactly cause dmg it made idra spend money preparing for air..crunchers opening was therefore BETTER. And props for giving idra a little bit of rage back at him an pissed he would be is deliciously evild the thought of owning idra knowing how
On March 29 2011 15:54 slip. wrote: hmmm so according to idra fans outmacroing your oponent the entire game and not winning is anything but your fault. just because his opening didn't exactly cause dmg it made idra spend money preparing for air..crunchers opening was therefore BETTER. And props for giving idra a little bit of rage back at him an pissed he would be is deliciously evild the thought of owning idra knowing how
But if you actually watched the game, idra was way ahead after the opening as he only had to make a few spores and queens to be completely safe and then just drone up and expand freely
On March 29 2011 15:43 L3gendary wrote: Like what?
Idra was completely out macroing him the entire game. Cruncher just sat passively until he got his deathball and rolled over everything zerg had. Going void ray and collosi...Cruncher's a genius. Cant wait till he runs into a terran, I'm not surprised he says he wants to face zerg players.
And what happens if the deathball works? Too bad for Idra, he should have done something
Nobody? He just beat IdrA in a Bo3 in an important tournament, i think he has earned the right to at least talk back when shit on then, if you noticed he was really humble before the match.
So in other words he is just like one of those sad battle.net ppl who spam trash at u after they've won or insta ignore you if they dont.
Btw its actually quite pathetic that he is trying to leech as much fame from Idra as possible, very transparent. Acting like a true noname, using every little opportunity to promote himself
First Idra trashed him before they even played. Is that fine? From your tone, only trashing after game is considered bad. At least when he trashed Idra, he won the series between them. He got results to back up his trash. Idra trashed him for no reason other than maybe getting cheesed on ladder(and ladder isn't worth anything). I think Idra is like one of those battle.net people who complain when they lose due to balance issue.
I'm definitely a fan of cruncher now. It's actually quite fun to have some drama.
Idra had a load of drones which means his army is going to be smaller in general so it's not that shocking to see that cruncher was able to kill idra's army multiple times
"sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
"would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Q: Oh, so you'd rather play him in Brood War if you had a choice?
Haha, in BW I would not have a chance anyway since my ZvT used to be the worst ZvT Europe has ever seen.
if only Mondi's zvt was as good as Octzerg's
haha, I totally forgot about that.
What happened to Octzerg, anyway? Is he playing SC2?
Nah, from what I know OctZerg is still playing SC1, either because of living in Macedonia with a godawful connection/computer, or because he can't win games with lings alone in SC2.
I dont get it. How can u complain about crunchers bm when idras bm ismuch worse?! Idra just gets his own medicine now. idra is a childish kid who cant lose. i mean how can u be like that after years and years of progaming? isnt he growing up like normal ppl?! i mean everybody he loses too has no skill and only abuses things? he always acts like he is the best player in the world and only HE knows how to play it. i mean he is by no doubt a top player ofc. but a top players should be able to clean up his weaknesses and nottrying to flame the guys who beat him by poking in his weaknesses. cruncher is absolutly right when he says that idra is really arrogant. i dont want to flame him personally but he acts like a guy who was bullied all the time at school and now this little boy is trying to get his revenge on the world....remember the pic of the harry potter in a leather jacket somewhere in korea....ok i should stop by now. the thing im trying to say is, cruncher carries his heart on the right spot und he got disrespected by idra sooo much. he just enjoys the mometum winning over an extremly arrogant and cocky dood. he just lets idra taste his own medicine....why shouldnt we be allowed to bully back the bully? or were all of u guys ppl who just gave their milkmoney away to the bullies? idra deserves it by beeing so extremly chiuldish and bm..... go cruncher....but mondi will rape u.....im so happy by now seeing mondi doing so well, idra could learn alot of him, even if its only the manners of mondi
It's absolutely amazing that people are trying to say Idra played better in G1 when they don't realize that Idra made fatal mistakes that cost him the game.
1) Did not play aggressive at all, played far too passive and didn't attempt to do any kind of good trades. Didn't snipe Colossus, never attempted to force Cruncher to stay in his base with drop play, didn't switch to any kind of other tech (he had PLENTY of time to do so), etc.
2) Tactically positioned his Corrupters horribly, losing many of them to VRs alone instead of microing them and sniping Colossus. There was a point where he lost something like 15+ Corrupters for no good reason.
3) Allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd UNCONTESTED on Shakuras. You're a god damn idiot if you allow a P to take an uncontested 3rd on Shakuras, and everyone that is decent at the game knows that. P with a fast 3rd like Cruncher can afford to basically camp for his 200/200 deathball and go roll you. Idra made a huge mistake here in allowing Cruncher to secure his 3rd for free. This was a big sign of his overconfidence.
4) Idra made WAY too many drones, thus cutting into his army count big time, when he KNEW for a fact that Cruncher was going for a big 200/200 deathball. To fight deathballs you need to stay mid level econ just ahead of P, because if you go for too many drones your army is to small to match his and you will get rolled hard.
Idra also deserves every bit of bad manner he gets. He spoke of Cruncher like he was some no name scrub that was horrible at SC2, when in fact that Cruncher is a solid upper level player who can beat top name players when he plays well.
When you treat everyone like a jackass you eventually will be treated like one. It's good to see that someone finally showed Idra what kind of a petulant spoiled brat he is. And the quote about Idra being an overrated is true. Idra can beat big name players IF you play his game. The second someone starts playing differently or abuses the fact that Idra plays in such a predictable manner, you will find that Idra has almost NO response to anything.
This was even true of him in BW, where I used to see players not do normal builds like 2 base Carrier and do some sort of heavy Gateway timing attack with shuttles and roll over Idra because he wasn't ready for it. So no, playing Z in SC2 isn't an excuse when he is still making the SAME mistakes that he did in BW.
On March 29 2011 16:10 superstartran wrote: It's absolutely amazing that people are trying to say Idra played better in G1 when they don't realize that Idra made fatal mistakes that cost him the game.
1) Did not play aggressive at all, played far too passive and didn't attempt to do any kind of good trades. Didn't snipe Colossus, never attempted to force Cruncher to stay in his base with drop play, didn't switch to any kind of other tech (he had PLENTY of time to do so), etc.
2) Tactically positioned his Corrupters horribly, losing many of them to VRs alone instead of microing them and sniping Colossus. There was a point where he lost something like 15+ Corrupters for no good reason.
3) Allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd UNCONTESTED on Shakuras. You're a god damn idiot if you allow a P to take an uncontested 3rd on Shakuras, and everyone that is decent at the game knows that. P with a fast 3rd like Cruncher can afford to basically camp for his 200/200 deathball and go roll you. Idra made a huge mistake here in allowing Cruncher to secure his 3rd for free. This was a big sign of his overconfidence.
4) Idra made WAY too many drones, thus cutting into his army count big time, when he KNEW for a fact that Cruncher was going for a big 200/200 deathball. To fight deathballs you need to stay mid level econ just ahead of P, because if you go for too many drones your army is to small to match his and you will get rolled hard.
There's so much wrong with this post I'm struggling to take it seriously
As soon as he had secured the advantage, he kept trying to force trades by pushing into Cruncher's natural. This in addition kept forcing Cruncher to move his deathball back there instead of allowing him to attack 1 o'clock main (though it's arguable whether he was going to do this, but he was clearly positioning his army for it). It certainly forced him to stay in his base and allowed idra to take the whole map. Drop play on shakura's isn't particularly good, especially when protoss takes these specific expansions, instead of expanding vertically. Now you can argue idra should have done some sort of all-in that hits just before protoss takes his third, but it is actually very difficult to do it on shakura's as both the natural and the expo behind rocks are easily defendable and forcefieldable. The air opening means you can't really do an roach all-in (no, it doesn't work despite Mondragon's games), and hydra timings don't really work in a way that you can get enough of them before the first colossi hits. It is, at least the version that they played on, a bad map for ZvP, just like Cruncher said. As for drone count, an argument can be made that zerg players should sack 20 or so drones when they see the protoss is going for deathball and not intending to take their fourth. Sometimes zergs do this very lategame by throwing down 20 spines, but that wouldn't have been particularly effective against voidray colossus. Idra's dronecount wasn't morrow esque at all, but he had the typical 74, which was likely about what cruncher had.
Whether trading those corruptors for a few void rays was worth it is arguable, but it doesn't appear to have affected the outcome of the game as idra was still maxed with a high corruptor count when the push hit, and there wasn't time to properly reinforce with anything but lings. "Bad" trades is what you are supposed to do as zerg when you are ahead like this against protoss.
On March 29 2011 16:10 superstartran wrote: It's absolutely amazing that people are trying to say Idra played better in G1 when they don't realize that Idra made fatal mistakes that cost him the game.
1) Did not play aggressive at all, played far too passive and didn't attempt to do any kind of good trades. Didn't snipe Colossus, never attempted to force Cruncher to stay in his base with drop play, didn't switch to any kind of other tech (he had PLENTY of time to do so), etc.
2) Tactically positioned his Corrupters horribly, losing many of them to VRs alone instead of microing them and sniping Colossus. There was a point where he lost something like 15+ Corrupters for no good reason.
3) Allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd UNCONTESTED on Shakuras. You're a god damn idiot if you allow a P to take an uncontested 3rd on Shakuras, and everyone that is decent at the game knows that. P with a fast 3rd like Cruncher can afford to basically camp for his 200/200 deathball and go roll you. Idra made a huge mistake here in allowing Cruncher to secure his 3rd for free. This was a big sign of his overconfidence.
4) Idra made WAY too many drones, thus cutting into his army count big time, when he KNEW for a fact that Cruncher was going for a big 200/200 deathball. To fight deathballs you need to stay mid level econ just ahead of P, because if you go for too many drones your army is to small to match his and you will get rolled hard.
There's so much wrong with this post I'm struggling to take it seriously
As soon as he had secured the advantage, he kept trying to force trades by pushing into Cruncher's natural. This in addition kept forcing Cruncher to move his deathball back there instead of allowing him to attack 1 o'clock main (though it's arguable whether he was going to do this, but he was clearly positioning his army for it). It certainly forced him to stay in his base and allowed idra to take the whole map. Drop play on shakura's isn't particularly good, especially when protoss takes these specific expansions, instead of expanding vertically. Now you can argue idra should have done some sort of all-in that hits just before protoss takes his third, but it is actually very difficult to do it on shakura's as both the natural and the expo behind rocks are easily defendable and forcefieldable. The air opening means you can't really do an roach all-in (no, it doesn't work despite Mondragon's games), and hydra timings don't really work in a way that you can get enough of them before the first colossi hits. It is, at least the version that they played on, a bad map for ZvP, just like Cruncher said. As for drone count, an argument can be made that zerg players should sack 20 or so drones when they see the protoss is going for deathball and not intending to take their fourth. Sometimes zergs do this very lategame by throwing down 20 spines, but that wouldn't have been particularly effective against voidray colossus. Idra's dronecount wasn't morrow esque at all, but he had the typical 74, which was likely about what cruncher had.
Whether trading those corruptors for a few void rays was worth it is arguable, but it doesn't appear to have affected the outcome of the game as idra was still maxed with a high corruptor count when the push hit, and there wasn't time to properly reinforce with anything but lings. "Bad" trades is what you are supposed to do as zerg when you are ahead like this against protoss.
He forced no trades at all, he didn't attempt to make any aggressive plays on Cruncher's 3rd which was in a very vulnerable position, instead he attempted to attack head on into the natural/main which cost him big time.
The air opening is weak to many all ins, including any kind of Hydra timing drop.
Did you even watch the game? Cruncher didn't take a normal 3rd timing, he took an extremely GREEDY timing that should have been punished. Idra didn't, and got over confident and allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd without a significant force to defend it. Any kind of big trade at that point would have heavily favored Idra, but he made a huge error in allowing Cruncher to take that 3rd uncontested. You normally take your 3rd as P around 13-14ish minutes because if you take it too fast, any kind of Roach/Hydra bust WILL kill you.
Face it, Idra played bad that game; he was outplayed because he made a whole slew of errors that cost him the game. He wasted so many Corrupters when he could have just kept sniping Colossus with them and kept Cruncher in full turtle mode. Cruncher had like what, 4-5 Colossus?
And drop play isn't good on Shakuras? Maybe against normal P openings, but against Forge FE into air it rapes. At 12-14 minutes any kind of all-in / big trade / drop would have killed Cruncher or put him severely behind. That was a huge mistake by Idra; you let P take an uncontested 3rd in PvZ and he will win almost 99.9% of the time. Anyone decent at this game knows this. Idra knows this, as does every good Z player out there.
I didn't even mention that Idra's hive timing was SUPER late, which also would have helped him fight against the deathball.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
This post is dead on... I really hope Idra learns from this loss. Raging at the game isn't going to change a thing. He needs to learn to take every match seriously. If he fails to finally realize this, I garuntee will be seeing history repeat itself all throughout his career as a Progamer. Keep in mind, this is his job...
Even assuming what you said is correct and there was a workable timing window, there's something wrong with the game or the map if the zerg has to hit such a window or lose even while taking the whole map and being way ahead. Hopefully 1.3 infestors at least somewhat help.
On March 29 2011 12:05 SiguR wrote: Love the interviews.
This is a gem from cruncher
Idra is extremely overrated and arrogant. If he isn't practicing 24/7, he is nowhere near being a good player.
Relatively unaccomplished protoss player calling one of the best players in the world, who has proven his ability time and time again, overrated? ell oh ell.
Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but I think he should wait until he wins an actual event before he talks like that. He's being just as rude as the player he is criticizing.
That "relatively unaccomplished Protoss player" beat "one of the best players in the world" in a BoX series. If that isn't an accomplishment, then maybe IdrA isn't one of the best players in the world. And that just confirms Cruncher's statement that IdrA is overrated. All that really matters is that Cruncher is in the Ro16 in the TSL and IdrA is not.
do you have a microphone inside my brain listening in on my thoughts? DO YOU!?
On March 29 2011 16:10 superstartran wrote: It's absolutely amazing that people are trying to say Idra played better in G1 when they don't realize that Idra made fatal mistakes that cost him the game.
1) Did not play aggressive at all, played far too passive and didn't attempt to do any kind of good trades. Didn't snipe Colossus, never attempted to force Cruncher to stay in his base with drop play, didn't switch to any kind of other tech (he had PLENTY of time to do so), etc.
2) Tactically positioned his Corrupters horribly, losing many of them to VRs alone instead of microing them and sniping Colossus. There was a point where he lost something like 15+ Corrupters for no good reason.
3) Allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd UNCONTESTED on Shakuras. You're a god damn idiot if you allow a P to take an uncontested 3rd on Shakuras, and everyone that is decent at the game knows that. P with a fast 3rd like Cruncher can afford to basically camp for his 200/200 deathball and go roll you. Idra made a huge mistake here in allowing Cruncher to secure his 3rd for free. This was a big sign of his overconfidence.
4) Idra made WAY too many drones, thus cutting into his army count big time, when he KNEW for a fact that Cruncher was going for a big 200/200 deathball. To fight deathballs you need to stay mid level econ just ahead of P, because if you go for too many drones your army is to small to match his and you will get rolled hard.
Now you can argue idra should have done some sort of all-in that hits just before protoss takes his third, but it is actually very difficult to do it on shakura's as both the natural and the expo behind rocks are easily defendable and forcefieldable. The air opening means you can't really do an roach all-in (no, it doesn't work despite Mondragon's games), and hydra timings don't really work in a way that you can get enough of them before the first colossi hits.
A Roach all in vs FFE will hit way before P has any air out. And no, IdrA didn't try to force trades, he threw all his Corruptors away killing ONE Void Ray. Well played.
As for the interview, I think IdrA deserves it but Cruncher still looks like a prick.
On March 29 2011 16:10 superstartran wrote: It's absolutely amazing that people are trying to say Idra played better in G1 when they don't realize that Idra made fatal mistakes that cost him the game.
1) Did not play aggressive at all, played far too passive and didn't attempt to do any kind of good trades. Didn't snipe Colossus, never attempted to force Cruncher to stay in his base with drop play, didn't switch to any kind of other tech (he had PLENTY of time to do so), etc.
2) Tactically positioned his Corrupters horribly, losing many of them to VRs alone instead of microing them and sniping Colossus. There was a point where he lost something like 15+ Corrupters for no good reason.
3) Allowed Cruncher to take a 3rd UNCONTESTED on Shakuras. You're a god damn idiot if you allow a P to take an uncontested 3rd on Shakuras, and everyone that is decent at the game knows that. P with a fast 3rd like Cruncher can afford to basically camp for his 200/200 deathball and go roll you. Idra made a huge mistake here in allowing Cruncher to secure his 3rd for free. This was a big sign of his overconfidence.
4) Idra made WAY too many drones, thus cutting into his army count big time, when he KNEW for a fact that Cruncher was going for a big 200/200 deathball. To fight deathballs you need to stay mid level econ just ahead of P, because if you go for too many drones your army is to small to match his and you will get rolled hard.
Now you can argue idra should have done some sort of all-in that hits just before protoss takes his third, but it is actually very difficult to do it on shakura's as both the natural and the expo behind rocks are easily defendable and forcefieldable. The air opening means you can't really do an roach all-in (no, it doesn't work despite Mondragon's games), and hydra timings don't really work in a way that you can get enough of them before the first colossi hits.
A Roach all in vs FFE will hit way before P has any air out. And no, IdrA didn't try to force trades, he threw all his Corruptors away killing ONE Void Ray. Well played.
As for the interview, I think IdrA deserves it but Cruncher still looks like a prick.
That's a different roach all-in than I was talking about, and relies heavily on protoss not making enough cannons or simcitying. You'll also get the void ray out during the push, which may or may not be too late depending on how well you simcitied during it.
I don't understand how any fan of the game can like Crunsher. This guy is a disgrace, and deserves nothing but contempt. He is a mixture between arrogance and incompetence, who's enjoying his small skill-less victory far too much. And that comes from a guy who doesn't even like idra.
On March 29 2011 16:34 syllogism wrote: Even assuming what you said is correct and there was a workable timing window, there's something wrong with the game or the map if the zerg has to hit such a window or lose even while taking the whole map and being way ahead. Hopefully 1.3 infestors at least somewhat help.
I never said there was nothing wrong with the game (design wise), but it is Idra's fault for not contesting Cruncher's 3rd when he was taking it at an extremely greedy timing that most P don't attempt because they are afraid of any kind of Roach bust. Cruncher started putting down his 3rd at just around 11 minutes, which is ULTRA greedy since he did not have the unit count to really defend it against any kind of big attack.
All I'm pointing out is that Idra did NOT play well in game 1. He played exactly into Cruncher's hands, allowed him to take a free 3rd, did not force any kind of trade at all that favored him (lost a boatload of Corrupters to VRs for no apparent reason), did not punish Cruncher for opening Forge FE = > VR (which is a VERY punishable build, especially if you take a fast 3rd like that).
Idra was passive, his Hive timing was waaaaaaaay late (didn't have Broodlords when he needed them, didn't have Ultras, had no Infestors, too many Hydras, etc.) among the many other mistakes that I listed. Those were just obvious mistakes to anyone remotely familiar with PvZ at mid = > high Masters. You cannot allow P to take an early 3rd like that, and you cannot allow P to Forge FE into VR/Phoenix and go unpunished with it (especially when he does almost no damage to you). Any normal 12 minute timing attack by Z would have forced Cruncher to defend his 3rd, as he would not have the gas to support a VR/Colossus army that quickly without it. If he defends there early, he has no cannons, and only has like 2 Colossus to defend his 3rd, meanwhile Idra is sitting pretty on 4 bases with 2 bases saturated and a 3rd almost saturated, with the 4th just done.
Of course Idra does no such thing, allows Cruncher to probe up and cannon his 3rd, while making a massive VR/Colossus deathball, and makes horrible decisions overall the entire game. Anyone remotely decent knows that Idra played honestly horrible despite the massive map control that he had in G1.
On March 29 2011 16:43 MilesTeg wrote: I don't understand how any fan of the game can like Crunsher. This guy is a disgrace, and deserves nothing but contempt. He is a mixture between arrogance and incompetence, who's enjoying his small skill-less victory far too much. And that comes from a guy who doesn't even like idra.
Especially after seeing the quotes linked above
also, ultras and broodlords are worthless against void ray colossi, unfortunately. The game was played on 1.2, so infestors wouldn't have been worthwhile at all.
You are once again asserting protoss was "greedy", but protoss was also way behind
On March 29 2011 16:43 MilesTeg wrote: I don't understand how any fan of the game can like Crunsher. This guy is a disgrace, and deserves nothing but contempt. He is a mixture between arrogance and incompetence, who's enjoying his small skill-less victory far too much. And that comes from a guy who doesn't even like idra.
Especially after seeing the quotes linked above
also, ultras and broodlords are worthless against void ray colossi, unfortunately. The game was played on 1.2, so infestors wouldn't have been worthwhile at all.
Well then maybe you don't just sit back and let them get void/colossi...
On March 29 2011 14:25 tangwhat wrote: IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler).
When Morrow beat Idra at the IEM finals, Idra cried abuse. He said that if Morrow played zerg he wouldn't get past gold league. Idra's fans ate it up. They flamed Morrow on the forums and trolled his fanclub thread, saying he would be terrible as zerg or that he was only good because he abused reapers. Morrow is now one of the best zergs in the world and the scorn of Idra's disciples is mostly forgotten.
Before Morrow... well you mentioned Tyler. I'm not sure if you were actually giving Tyler as an example of someone who deserves respect, but in the past TSL, in fact, Idra said Tyler was a terrible player and that he would beat him 4-0. Idra lost 1-4.
Memories are short and Idra fans now have a new person to insist is bad and just wins due to imba/cheese. Enjoy all the hater attention, Cruncher. You have nothing to prove given all the big names you've beaten lately, anyone who says you're bad or a "random nobody" is too lazy to look at your actual results or is just completely braindead. 2-0 vs Kiwikaki, 3-0 vs Fenix, 4-1 vs PainUser, 4-1 vs Sjow, 4-1 vs LzGamer, 4-0 vs StrifeCro, 2-0 vs oGsInca, 2-0 vs CheckPrime, 2-0 vs MarineKingPrime...
CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference. I'm sorry that IdrA makes you so angry ploy, but some of us don't let our (probably rational) dislikes of people blind us to the flaws of others. I never said IdrA's BM is acceptable in any way, it's also rude and unacceptable but CrunCher really went above and beyond for being a massive douchebag.
I don't know about you, but for me there's nothing more satisfying in SC2 than getting bmed for no reason, winning and then rubbing it in. If that's childish then take me to Neverland, Peter Pan. And yeah me Pete are going to bm Captain Hook after we kick his ass and make him rage all night.
I don't even dislike Idra that much, but sheesh, some of his fans are just the worst...
Wow, CrunCher's attitude is so childish, and he just comes off as a douche. Was fun to see him beat Idra, I would have hoped he'd been more mature about it.
SOOOOOOOO excited for Mondragon on the other hand!
On March 29 2011 16:43 MilesTeg wrote: I don't understand how any fan of the game can like Crunsher. This guy is a disgrace, and deserves nothing but contempt. He is a mixture between arrogance and incompetence, who's enjoying his small skill-less victory far too much. And that comes from a guy who doesn't even like idra.
Especially after seeing the quotes linked above
also, ultras and broodlords are worthless against void ray colossi, unfortunately. The game was played on 1.2, so infestors wouldn't have been worthwhile at all.
You are once again asserting protoss was "greedy", but protoss was also way behind
Ultra/Broodlord would have been worthless? He could have made an even trade (or at least better trades) with any Hive tech army and killed Cruncher off with superior economy. He engaged in horrible spots on the map, his hive tech was way too late, and he made no attempt to punish Cruncher for his absurdly greedy opening (Stargate = > Fast Colossus with early 3rd expansion? LOL)
I mean, Cruncher literally had 4 Colossus. You kill those off, all you have are really Stalkers/VRs which are pretty easy to deal with. Ultra/Ling/Infestor/Hydras would have done well, as would have ANY Hive tech supported army. Hive tech works perfectly fine even in 1.2; most Z whine that hive tech doesn't work, but forget that they are sitting on huge economy lead. Idra in general just played horrible G1; anyone with a brain can see that.
Mondragon's interview was great as always. His zerg play was surprisingly awesome. Whatever people say about how good or bad Mondragon's opponent was playing at the time I was really impressed with his decision making / efficiency / gamesense. And this came at a time when zergs were losing left and right in the ro32.
Fantastic interviews, thanks for doing them. Have to enjoy the one by Cruncher the most. Most excited about Nada advancing to the Ro16 than Cruncher though.
I love Mondi but sometimes i think his modesty is too much.
Q: So you're enjoying being an unknown, a wild card for once in your life?
Hehe, that's pretty neat. I guess you know I love to be the underdog (and obviously I've always been an underdog whenever I play). Thus the situation is quite enjoyable for me.
Really? Always?
Dude your Mondragon!!! The Brood War bets used to be 90% on you and 10% in the poor bastard that was gona get raped by you.
loving the cruncher hate. you KNOW he had a mad troll face going on in g3
also loving the random forum posts from 3 months ago about wc3 and sc2 comparing it to wow. if people took everything people said completely seriously then idra would be in even worse shape, kinda hypocritical of yall :/
mc smack talks his fair share, idra def does, so what if cruncher does.
and also, day9 talked about the phenomenon of idra losing g1, winning g2, and falling apart in g3.....
i remember when idra casted a gsl game awhile back and said that he plays WAY better when he knows the game will be tight, having extreme confidence is his achilles heel (IN HIS OWN WORDS).
Thanks for doing the interviews, they've all been a good read so far!
Regarding Cruncher/Idra BM - I don't agree with using your interview to trash your opponent before or after the games, but hey it's not my interview to give
kas really, really impressed me on sunday, he's just playing a really solid, macro based terran and i think that he will continue to do very well. As opposed to someone like cruncher, who just does the same abusive void collossus and then 6 gates :/
Totally justifiable responses from Cruncher. If a dude publicly declares that you are weak and that he expects to walk all over you, then there is but one course of action you should take: put him in his place!
Q: Oh, so you'd rather play him in Brood War if you had a choice?
Haha, in BW I would not have a chance anyway since my ZvT used to be the worst ZvT Europe has ever seen.
if only Mondi's zvt was as good as Octzerg's
haha, I totally forgot about that.
What happened to Octzerg, anyway? Is he playing SC2?
Nah, from what I know OctZerg is still playing SC1, either because of living in Macedonia with a godawful connection/computer, or because he can't win games with lings alone in SC2.
On March 29 2011 17:02 maJes wrote: Thanks for doing the interviews, they've all been a good read so far!
Regarding Cruncher/Idra BM - I don't agree with using your interview to trash your opponent before or after the games, but hey it's not my interview to give
What other choice does IdrA have? He only wiehgs like 90lbs. Best keep trashtalk online know what I'm sayin?
Also, apart from that cruncher-idra scandal, Mondragon is by far the best foreigner interviewer, he talks a bit like BoxeR, and i just love that Such a nice guy. Didnt know him before, but i hope he gets some good results from now on. Would be nice a BoxeR vs Mondragon semifinals, i want to hear his opinion about a match vs the emperor :D Also, we need zerg in there, and hasu is just too german to be beaten by morrow, so he has to make it.
Haha, great interview from Cruncher. Obviously Idra isn't very good, its not like he has consistently performed in the top league in the entire World, taken out some of the best players in the World and is name dropped by pretty much every Korean along with Jinro when asked who the good foreign players are.
Bearing that in mind, I really think zergs need to have a get together and find a way to counter the damn 3 base death ball, its not very interesting to watch. I really hope Cruncher faces a good terran, I really, really do.
My faverouite part of the interview -
'I'd rather play against Mondragon since he is a Zerg. PvP is insanely annoying to play.'
Translation - I'd rather play a Zerg so I can use exactly the same tactic to garner another free win.
On March 29 2011 11:52 Gaius Baltar wrote: I had hoped Cruncher might take a humble approach to his interview, even if only to please people like me who weren't impressed by his wins. Instead, he comes across overly cocky.
IdrA is overrated? He's nowhere near being good without playing 24/7? Most people thought IdrA was the better player by far in the series.
He fully expected IdrA's strategy in game 2? Then why did he get dominated by it in perhaps the most one-sided SC2 game I've ever seen?
He also says IdrA lost game 3 because he had zero units. In reality, he had five roaches stuck in a forcefield trap, unable to fight back against sentries.
Most people thought IdrA was the better player by far in the series.
By most people you mean hardcore IdrA fanboys and zerg apologists right?
Tbh Idra need to cool it down. He played for CJ in bw and seem to think that it was enough to be the king of sc2. I mean he sat in a korean pro house and still got owned in TSL2 by a player that did not even work that hard. In Sc2 he started of in korea and then moved back but it has not changed the fact that he is getting owned most of the time anyway. And when he does, its always chees, lame use of op units or the map and faction he plays is so imb that it is impossible to win.
To have the bm style idra has, he need to show alot more result. Its starting to get embarassing how often he speaks out and then looks really lame when he lose or are just plain wrong in what he say. Like morrow not winning anything with zerg, or cruncher being a walkover etc etc etc.
The real fun thing is the peoples attitude towards Torunaments/Games:
Tournament BO1: "That means nothing, it's just 1 Game, you can't judge who is better from that".
Tournament BO3: "Thats means nothing, it's just 3 Games, you can't judge wo is better from that".
Tournament BO5: "That means nothing, it's just 5 Games, you can't really judge wo is better from that.
Might this comes shocking to some of you, but winning in a tournament is all that matters.... No one cares if your 10-0 in the Ladder against the Dude that just kicked you out. In no other Sports people are all the time like "well it was just a BO3".... Tennis, Football, Track, Skiing........ Whatever you wan't, the tournaments are BO1 (well you could argue in Tennis for BO3/5 depending on Sets) and no one ever asks which player/team was better in Training...
Cruncher beat Idra, Cruncher is therefore better until Idra beats him in another tournament game. It does not matter if he is better due to imbalance or whatever, it just does not matter.
Idra's been overrated since 2009. To think that there were people in the world who actually considered him to be the best SC2 player in the world around September/October last year is mind-blowing.
On March 29 2011 17:24 Velr wrote: The real fun thing is the peoples attitude towards Torunaments/Games:
Tournament BO1: "That means nothing, it's just 1 Game, you can't judge who is better from that".
Tournament BO3: "Thats means nothing, it's just 3 Games, you can't judge wo is better from that".
Tournament BO5: "That means nothing, it's just 5 Games, you can't really judge wo is better from that.
Might this comes shocking to some of you, but winning in a tournament is all that matters.... No one cares if your 10-0 in the Ladder against the Dude that just kicked you out. In no other Sports people are all the time like "well it was just a BO3".... Tennis, Football, Track, Skiing........ Whatever you wan't, the tournaments are BO1 (well you could argue in Tennis for BO3/5 depending on Sets) and no one ever asks which player/team was better in Training...
Cruncher beat Idra, Cruncher is therefore better until Idra beats him in another tournament game. It does not matter if he is better due to imbalance or whatever, it just does not matter.
This is hilariously flawed logic, but just for entertainment, do you think if some no name defeats Federer and then doesn't play him again and shows no other good results, he is better than him?
Man Kas seems so nice and humble. He is so skilled and makes a mistake but still says how Haypro played well to get into that position. Really dig that guy. Hope we see more of him.
On March 29 2011 17:24 Velr wrote: The real fun thing is the peoples attitude towards Torunaments/Games:
Tournament BO1: "That means nothing, it's just 1 Game, you can't judge who is better from that".
Tournament BO3: "Thats means nothing, it's just 3 Games, you can't judge wo is better from that".
Tournament BO5: "That means nothing, it's just 5 Games, you can't really judge wo is better from that.
Might this comes shocking to some of you, but winning in a tournament is all that matters.... No one cares if your 10-0 in the Ladder against the Dude that just kicked you out. In no other Sports people are all the time like "well it was just a BO3".... Tennis, Football, Track, Skiing........ Whatever you wan't, the tournaments are BO1 (well you could argue in Tennis for BO3/5 depending on Sets) and no one ever asks which player/team was better in Training...
Cruncher beat Idra, Cruncher is therefore better until Idra beats him in another tournament game. It does not matter if he is better due to imbalance or whatever, it just does not matter.
Hockey is a BO7 and that should be the staple of who is the better player. BO5 sometimes can work but BO3 and especially BO1 do not prove much.
What's wrong with some of you guys? Do you prefer to be hypochrite or honest? Cruncher is honest in this interview. As stated before the match by Day[9] and DjWheat, these two players don't like each other. I see nothing wrong with Cruncher's interview, even if he's saying some inexact things, he stays honest and that's all that matters for me.
On March 29 2011 17:13 Trowa127 wrote: Haha, great interview from Cruncher. Obviously Idra isn't very good, its not like he has consistently performed in the top league in the entire World, taken out some of the best players in the World and is name dropped by pretty much every Korean along with Jinro when asked who the good foreign players are.
Because Koreans in general have excellent knowledge of the international scene? There's a reason why they name Jinro and Idra, it's more or less the only foreigners they know of or at least have seen play. For instance Nestea had never heard of Goody and Genius only recognized qxc's name, didn't know anything about his game.
Really bad part on the people who do the interviews to let them badmouth others for no reason. This goes for both Cruncher and Idra but mainly cruncher since he bm'ed idra in every question.
On March 29 2011 17:24 Velr wrote: The real fun thing is the peoples attitude towards Torunaments/Games:
Tournament BO1: "That means nothing, it's just 1 Game, you can't judge who is better from that".
Tournament BO3: "Thats means nothing, it's just 3 Games, you can't judge wo is better from that".
Tournament BO5: "That means nothing, it's just 5 Games, you can't really judge wo is better from that.
Might this comes shocking to some of you, but winning in a tournament is all that matters.... No one cares if your 10-0 in the Ladder against the Dude that just kicked you out. In no other Sports people are all the time like "well it was just a BO3".... Tennis, Football, Track, Skiing........ Whatever you wan't, the tournaments are BO1 (well you could argue in Tennis for BO3/5 depending on Sets) and no one ever asks which player/team was better in Training...
Cruncher beat Idra, Cruncher is therefore better until Idra beats him in another tournament game. It does not matter if he is better due to imbalance or whatever, it just does not matter.
Hockey is a BO7 and that should be the staple of who is the better player. BO5 sometimes can work but BO3 and especially BO1 do not prove much.
A BO1 proves about as much as a BO7 that ends 4-3.
A 4-0 "rape" would probably prove something, but in the end it doesn't matter.
If you got the "Winner"-Tag your better.
I'm just kinda annoyed by the constant complaining of some people that BO1/3/whatever do not show who is better... Well... As long as people actually have to play the game these things are all that matters and all that define whos better.
Or we could just start with having each player fill out a SC2 trivia and multply the answers with their average apm divided by 3...
On March 29 2011 17:24 Velr wrote: The real fun thing is the peoples attitude towards Torunaments/Games:
Tournament BO1: "That means nothing, it's just 1 Game, you can't judge who is better from that".
Tournament BO3: "Thats means nothing, it's just 3 Games, you can't judge wo is better from that".
Tournament BO5: "That means nothing, it's just 5 Games, you can't really judge wo is better from that.
Might this comes shocking to some of you, but winning in a tournament is all that matters.... No one cares if your 10-0 in the Ladder against the Dude that just kicked you out. In no other Sports people are all the time like "well it was just a BO3".... Tennis, Football, Track, Skiing........ Whatever you wan't, the tournaments are BO1 (well you could argue in Tennis for BO3/5 depending on Sets) and no one ever asks which player/team was better in Training...
Cruncher beat Idra, Cruncher is therefore better until Idra beats him in another tournament game. It does not matter if he is better due to imbalance or whatever, it just does not matter.
true. in other words: it's NEVER about "who's better" in general, but ALWAYS about winning right here and then. no one is arguing something like "cruncher won so he's a better player than idra". he just won and that's all that matters. idra will never get this. i remember rekruls post when idra lost against i think it was f91 and his response was something like "well he played horribly, it's stupid to play the way he did and my strategy was good vs a good strategy so he's just stupid"... stupid and WINNING man.... jesus.
btw idra fans there's a BIG difference between being BM in general towards anyone and just BMing the one person on earth that SO deserved it. seriously, grow up.
Cruncher is no better than idra imo. He says he is cheesing in ladder games against idra to make him rage. that is what the bully in the schoolyard does as well. picking on some one else for their own ammusement. Idra should try to rage less and practice more. all that negative energy could be used in other ways.
cruncher over did it with the smileyface imo and ik hope he will get crushed by his next opponent.
i dont understand... whats the big deal with crunches forcefields. Those roaches were close enough to do the same damage as they were without forcefields.Or if all roaches are in the same place, then they take much more damage somehow? Or if roaches are forcefielded like that they dont even attack?
Somehow I don't feel like I read the same Cruncher interview as I really didn't see that much bm. Maybe the over-rated part, but it's kinda hard to argue that Idra isn't arrogant. Perhaps people are annoyed that he find Idra's rage funny? But when dealing with rage, either you let it effect you and rage back/rage quietly or you ignore it- part of ignoring it simply finding the rage ridiculous and therefore funny.
As for the trolling part- if it were a forum, yeah maybe he'd be seen as a baiter. But because Idra unnecessarily loses his cool to cheese- only cheesing Idra on ladder and then playing standard in tournament is more of a head-game thing.
The whole no respect for Idra thing- that largely comes down to how you view Idra's attitude and persona. Many fans enjoy it, many do not. Crunchy clearly does not. I do not, but I do see Idra as necessary part of SC internally- the bad boy of SC2, but as far as a spokeman for esports- never. We need another Boxer. The main thing with this though- given Idra's online bm (real-life, he seems to be fairly decent), fans have to expect not everyone will agree with Idra
I agree the most with tree.hugger and Sky Net's posts- especially worth noting that Idra has trash talked most everyone including the Chill'toss Tyler/Nony.
To me it's straight from the Awesome/ confusing BM thread in BW section or the Funny opponent quotes from SC2. Where Idra is the rager spamming 'f-ing noob', but we're getting mad at Cruncher for replying 'lol.' Honestly, who is 'bming' who? And if Idra really considers 'lol' to be cruel and unusual bm, then he needs to grow thicker skin. But somehow I don't think so. Somehow I think Idra is more than capable of handling the flak from his own bm. (Unless he tilts, but that's his self-created problem.) Somehow I think it's the fans that need to grow thicker skin for their favourite bm'er.
guys, idra doesn't need you to defend his honour, he is not a maiden and you are not an e-knight in shining armour. my opinion is that so long as cruncher backs his talk up with some good results, then its all good. otherwise he's just a big mouth. rivalries and backstories are good for sc2 scene anyway
So stoked for mondragon, so happy to see him do well, was a bit disappointed with zeerax though
On March 29 2011 18:15 ambient_orange wrote: i dont understand... whats the big deal with crunches forcefields. Those roaches were close enough to do the same damage as they were without forcefields.Or if all roaches are in the same place, then they take much more damage somehow? Or if roaches are forcefielded like that they dont even attack?
p.s. idravschuncher g2 and im silver player.
Well they dont attack until idra told them to again which was a quite a bit later and cruncher was smart to move his stalkers back out of the roaches 4 range and still hitting them with the stalkers 6 range.
About the value of best of's and tournament wins, and comparisons to other competitive games. Especially in sc2, where a player might have one matchup they suffer in, ranking of players shouldn't (and doesn't) take into account the "who." Only the record of wins and losses. Love him or loath him, Idra is a very consistent player, placing well in many competitions, whereas Cruncher is relatively unknown. Regardless of any individual result between the two, Idra will remain the "better player" until cruncher performs consistently better than Idra in many competitions.
As to the flames, it all adds to the entertainment, so BM aside, it's all good for the esport :D
Okay, I consider myself a very respectful person in general even online, but honestly if somebody called me out like that and called me terrible, and then LOST to me in one of the most prestigious tournaments, I would gloat and troll the other guy like crazy. And I am almost definitely sure most of you guys would do the exact same thing in real life.
If somebody disrespects you publicly and you stomp him in something he cares about, of course you're going to rub it in his face for a little bit. If Idra did not want this, he would not have said what he said in the first place. But he's a big boy and he'll deal with it.
On March 29 2011 18:22 DrunkenTemplar wrote: guys, idra doesn't need you to defend his honour, he is not a maiden and you are not an e-knight in shining armour. my opinion is that so long as cruncher backs his talk up with some good results, then its all good. otherwise he's just a big mouth. rivalries and backstories are good for sc2 scene anyway
So stoked for mondragon, so happy to see him do well, was a bit disappointed with zeerax though
Lol what honour. Idra's just an arrogant, rude little boy.
Idra is 10x times better than you and he has 10x times (if not more) achievments than you. He also has more fans then you, a better sponser then you and i better attitude then you. He has also beaten you 95% of all the games you have played on ladder and in tournaments but still you say that u are a better player then him?
youre just a worthless faggot please enjoy your week in the spotlight becuse later you will still justy be a random noob that cant win shit while idra is making history )
cruncher so badass. He just straight up spits the truth, idrA's not even good at this game, unless he practices 14 hours a day, at which point hes competetive, but by no means the best.
Haha, the idra's fanboys are the worst. In fact, they are the same as idra. Idra treats this match as a walkover, saying his opponent will only 4 gate him, saying he's bad, even still bm'ing between games... Then people wonder why Cruncher saying what he says :D You guys are the most irrational people on earth. Bm'ing someone then losing to him will obviously have consequences :D
Aww I'm a Cruncher fan now. Such a champion attitude really. That was the most epic, classy, BM I've seen since Much's pylon heart. BM should be subtil, it's about letting the game talk for itself.
On March 29 2011 18:40 cruncherISaFAGGOT wrote: Dear Cruncher you worthless
Idra is 10x times better than you and he has 10x times (if not more) achievments than you. He also has more fans then you, a better sponser then you and i better attitude then you. He has also beaten you 95% of all the games you have played on ladder and in tournaments but still you say that u are a better player then him?
youre just a worthless faggot please enjoy your week in the spotlight becuse later you will still justy be a random noob that cant win shit while idra is making history )
It hurts my eyes when i see people repeating "cruncher says the truth"... you really think idra is a bad player? Uh. Ah and btw i (and i think most of us "with idra" in this case) dont defend his honour, its just 2 things: 1) the games seemed like rotflmao (especially game1), "how to win without using any micro or macro skills from a disadvantage" tutorial for P 2) bm from idra is one thing ( a) we know he does it, its expected from him b) he is a famous guy who can get away with it (just check teamliquid's own forum rules) c) telling bad stuff about a relatively unknown player something is bad manner, but somewhat reasonable), but what cruncher does is just being a monkey. "see i beat him i am the god and he is sh*t" stuff. well, we will see how he does in tournaments, but he didnt made himself any more sympathetic
I'm so happy Cruncher beat IdrA, and Mondragon played some fantastic games as well. I think hes gonna make it very far in this tournament, and I hope we see him around more often haha
I don't see how people can say that Cruncher is no better than Idra. To public knowledge Idra had no reason to BM and blatantly disrespect Cruncher. How can you expect Cruncher to stay humble when Idra made it obvious he think so lowly of him? Nobody would do that. Honestly he still took the high road and wasn't overly rude. Of course he BMed him a little bit but you can't say he didn't have it coming. Idra is kinda rude to everybody, Cruncher only BMed somebody who was rude to him first. Seems fair. His post game interview just seemed honest to me. The whole scenario was pretty great for the tournament honestly lol.
Cruncher did not say Idra was a bad player, he said that if Idra did not practice 24/7 he would be a bad player. Idra have had a set up that most sc2 players only can dream of but still he is not that dominant.
Its like Hayder, the guy lives in korea and practice in the Ogs house and what has he got from that? being kicked form Code A a million times and losing in the first round of TSL. But hey, I guess thats also just imb or maps fault like it is for Idra. Or maybe Kas did not play the way you are supposed to play etc etc etc. It just cant be that both Hayder and Idra might not be as good as people want them to be.
Haha, nice interview and I love the drama. I respect the opinion of people who don't like the interview if they also don't like Idra's interviews/behavior. Everybody who thinks Idra's behavior is fine and Cruncher's interview isn't is just being hypocritical.
Cruncher is completely right that Idra did a stupid mistake in underestimating his opponent, but labeling Idra as "predictable" is a bit pathetic.
Zerg is far more predictable than any of the other races, it's not a huge accomplishment to predict what a Zerg is going to do.
Cruncher might not respect Idra, but has no respect from me either, his name would, in my opinon, not be mentioned anywhere if not for the current balance of Terran and Zerg. Most Terrans know this to be true (although they will vehemently deny it)
On March 29 2011 11:45 ReaperX wrote: [Cruncher]'s actually pretty professional with his interviews too.
Clearly you don't mean this interview. It is hardly professional to make every other response about how much you want to make your opponent 'rage' because you 'don't respect him.' That's not the behavior of a professional. That's the attitude of a troll, to induce as much rage as possible. He's no more professional than idra was in his pre-game interview. I'm all for the logic of 'return in kind' but let's call this what it is and not delude ourselves just because he managed to take a best of 3 off idra.
Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
For me it feels like idra thinks he is the best and that he should always win. When he loses it's because his race is underpowered, not because of his fault. For idra both terran and protoss are OP and his race is UP. He is exact the reason why zergs whine so much. You don't hear players like morrow, sen and julyzerg whine.
Haha good Cruncher interview, was definitely looking forward to seeing what he had to say. Actually thought he was rather restrained given so many of Idra's comments towards him.
Nice interview from Kas too, classy and humble. Looking forward to his games with Nada =)
what the fuck is Cruncher doing? In the pre-game interview he was all humble and stuff. The most cocky thing he said then was that he was confident against IdrA. Now that he has won he's saying that idra is overrated and arrogant. That's pathetic. Also, why would you disrespect someone for being respectful? That's purely hypocritical. IdrA is being BM only to blow off steam. He has said that multiple times in interviews. Cruncher is basically saying he has no respect for IdrA because he has a temper. And he's saying IdrAs reactions are unprovoked...
On March 29 2011 19:48 Alpina wrote: Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
If you did all that and you still lost then you did something wrong. Don't tell me that Idra can't win even though he has map control, excellent economy, and is maxed out 1.5 times faster, and that the reason for that is race/luck/cheese/whatever.
Idra has this idea of how SC2 should be and plays according to that idea. His opponents just play the game, using and abusing every strategy available.
Come on, Cruncher def has a point there. I mean IdrA practises like a mad man and still his list of achievements is quite short: Tourneys won: MLG DC (Oct 2010) , Razer KotB (July 2010) and Hello, Goodbye Tournament (Apr 2010) (source: Liquipedia)
Yet he thinks he is one of the best players in the world. Well still he has to prove that.
On March 29 2011 19:48 Alpina wrote: Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
Idra has this idea of how SC2 should be and plays according to that idea. His opponents just play the game, using and abusing every strategy available.
The idea is to win.
You mean sitting on 3 base and just pumping units? That's what you call "using and abusing every strategy available"? That's exactly why IdrA rages - because he thinks that it's unfair for zerg players. And I don't get why Cruncher comes with all that agresssive bm, maybe he thinks is so extremelly good. For me personally game 2 showed exactly how much better IdrA is.
1) the games seemed like rotflmao (especially game1), "how to win without using any micro or macro skills from a disadvantage" tutorial for P 2) bm from idra is one thing ( a) we know he does it, its expected from him b) he is a famous guy who can get away with it (just check teamliquid's own forum rules) c) telling bad stuff about a relatively unknown player something is bad manner, but somewhat reasonable), but what cruncher does is just being a monkey. "see i beat him i am the god and he is sh*t" stuff. well, we will see how he does in tournaments, but he didnt made himself any more sympathetic
Without wishing to be rude, that is all totally biased bullshit. You only think the games were somehow unfair because you're clearly well behind Idra.
But actually saying Idra's BM is totally fine and Cruncher 'is just being a monkey' is straight up bollocks. It blows my mind how you can actually think that. Cruncher's BM was a reaction to Idra being an arrogant dick. Ever since Cruncher won his TL Open Idra has been dismissive, which was funny, but when you're playing the guy and you say it's going to be a walkover you better back that shit up or your face is going to get rubbed in it hard. For fuck's sake Idra was trash talking between every game.
Well, Crunsher can flame a bit for now. He win mostly because Idra under estimate him / Crunsher abuse Idra only weakness = his ego.
In terms of gameplay, i still want to see more of him. He get outplayed in game 2, abuse a unbalance composition on an unbalance map in game 1, and 6gate a zerg who was making drone during the push. Nothing to be impress for the moment.
On March 29 2011 19:24 shinarit wrote: It hurts my eyes when i see people repeating "cruncher says the truth"... you really think idra is a bad player? Uh. Ah and btw i (and i think most of us "with idra" in this case) dont defend his honour, its just 2 things: 1) the games seemed like rotflmao (especially game1), "how to win without using any micro or macro skills from a disadvantage" tutorial for P 2) bm from idra is one thing ( a) we know he does it, its expected from him b) he is a famous guy who can get away with it (just check teamliquid's own forum rules) c) telling bad stuff about a relatively unknown player something is bad manner, but somewhat reasonable), but what cruncher does is just being a monkey. "see i beat him i am the god and he is sh*t" stuff. well, we will see how he does in tournaments, but he didnt made himself any more sympathetic
Saying someone is overrated isn't thesame thing as saying someone is bad, it's saying that the person isn't as good as people make that person out to be. Idra has a huge flaw in his game, wich rekrul pointed out 2 years ago. If things don't go exactly as Idra planned, he'll lose.
2) Remind me, a while ago, he got a 30 day ban, when it expired, he came back, made exactly 1 post, and got banned for it again, I haven't seen him post since, was it a new 30 day ban or wa it a perm ban?
On March 29 2011 19:33 vdale wrote: Haha, nice interview and I love the drama. I respect the opinion of people who don't like the interview if they also don't like Idra's interviews/behavior. Everybody who thinks Idra's behavior is fine and Cruncher's interview isn't is just being hypocritical.
Idra's behavior isn't fine, I think everyone but the stupidest hardcore fans agree on that. But everyone but the stupidest haters recognise he's a great player too.
Crunsher won against someone who's undeniably miles ahead of him, showing absolutely nothing even remotely impressive at all. And now he acts like he's the GSL champion?
He's not disrespecting idra, he's pissing all over Starcraft, which is a game I enjoy quite a lot.
On March 29 2011 19:48 Alpina wrote: Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
Idra has this idea of how SC2 should be and plays according to that idea. His opponents just play the game, using and abusing every strategy available.
The idea is to win.
You mean sitting on 3 base and just pumping units? That's what you call "using and abusing every strategy available"? That's exactly why IdrA rages - because he thinks that it's unfair for zerg players. And I don't get why Cruncher comes with all that agresssive bm, maybe he thinks is so extremelly good. For me personally game 2 showed exactly how much better IdrA is.
Unfair or not, doesn't give you a reason to never write GG, write shit between matches and generally treat other people like crap...
You mean sitting on 3 base and just pumping units? That's what you call "using and abusing every strategy available"? That's exactly why IdrA rages - because he thinks that it's unfair for zerg players.
Yes, actually that's exactly what I mean. You're telling me that Idra had no way at all of winning the first game? None at all?.
If that's the case, I wonder why people even play Zerg.
On March 29 2011 20:07 MilesTeg wrote: Idra's behavior isn't fine, I think everyone but the stupidest hardcore fans agree on that. But everyone but the stupidest haters recognise he's a great player too. lot.
Of course it's fine. And only the stupidest hardcore conformists would disagree. Somehow you're supposed to and expected to always be happy and never be angry no matter what. Why are you not allowed to get upset from losing? Especially when your opponent is mocking you? How can you sit there and say "IdrAs behavior isn't OK because I think so because I've been taught that the norm says otherwise!"?
You mean sitting on 3 base and just pumping units? That's what you call "using and abusing every strategy available"? That's exactly why IdrA rages - because he thinks that it's unfair for zerg players.
Yes, actually that's exactly what I mean. You're telling me that Idra had no way at all of winning the first game? None at all?.
If that's the case, I wonder why people even play Zerg.
Seriously man, where did I say that IdrA has no chance of winning G1? My advice is to read my post few times before replying because we are talking about different things now.
You mean sitting on 3 base and just pumping units? That's what you call "using and abusing every strategy available"? That's exactly why IdrA rages - because he thinks that it's unfair for zerg players.
Yes, actually that's exactly what I mean. You're telling me that Idra had no way at all of winning the first game? None at all?.
If that's the case, I wonder why people even play Zerg.
Seriously man, where did I say that IdrA has no chance of winning G1? My advice is to read my post few times before replying because we are talking about different things now.
Benefit of the doubt. I hoped you weren't talking about race imba.
Seriously, when I asked someone "How do I deal with 25 mutas in my base?", the answer was "You can't. Don't let him make 25 mutas. Same thing with void rays.
Of course, everything I just said can be countered with "Ah yes but Toss is imba for Zerg"....
Basically I feel that if Idra was the SC2 demigod people make him to be, he wouldn't lose against Cruncher, even if we assume there's things lik race imba. If he had been the better player in those games, he would have won.
On March 29 2011 20:17 SanDevon wrote: Yes, actually that's exactly what I mean. You're telling me that Idra had no way at all of winning the first game? None at all?.
If that's the case, I wonder why people even play Zerg.
Well, if you can sit on 3 base and just pump units, and than 1a yourself to win is hardly compared in complexity to own the whole map and harrass/damage everywhere (as you cant win in a straight up battle obviously). So ofcourse if you have 9000+ apm than you can beat anyone in any matchup. But you dont, its expected that same skill levels will have 1:1 w/l, which is not the case obviously.
1) the games seemed like rotflmao (especially game1), "how to win without using any micro or macro skills from a disadvantage" tutorial for P 2) bm from idra is one thing ( a) we know he does it, its expected from him b) he is a famous guy who can get away with it (just check teamliquid's own forum rules) c) telling bad stuff about a relatively unknown player something is bad manner, but somewhat reasonable), but what cruncher does is just being a monkey. "see i beat him i am the god and he is sh*t" stuff. well, we will see how he does in tournaments, but he didnt made himself any more sympathetic
Without wishing to be rude, that is all totally biased bullshit. You only think the games were somehow unfair because you're clearly well behind Idra.
But actually saying Idra's BM is totally fine and Cruncher 'is just being a monkey' is straight up bollocks. It blows my mind how you can actually think that. Cruncher's BM was a reaction to Idra being an arrogant dick. Ever since Cruncher won his TL Open Idra has been dismissive, which was funny, but when you're playing the guy and you say it's going to be a walkover you better back that shit up or your face is going to get rubbed in it hard. For fuck's sake Idra was trash talking between every game.
If you realise that i didnt say IdrA's bm is ok, than you will realise your whole post is pointless. Yes, bm is bad in general, but everyone should see the difference. Not only the player's position but the whole point and reason of the bming and behind it. I agree that idra should be more modest, and if he knows that the matchup is bad, than dont take it too easy (not in words neither in game), but he is right so far: cruncher didnt show any special skill yet, where idra did.
Cruncher is one of my new favs, he gave Idra exactly what he needed ... he was trash-talking in between games of a huge tournament!! I knew he routinely did that on ladder matches, but in the middle of a tournament? C'mon, he is taking BM to a whole new level.....While I agree that Idra is very good, I also agree taht he is overrated and extremely arrogant. Thanks for a very entertaining match Cruncher!!!!
On March 29 2011 20:07 MilesTeg wrote: Idra's behavior isn't fine, I think everyone but the stupidest hardcore fans agree on that. But everyone but the stupidest haters recognise he's a great player too. lot.
Of course it's fine. And only the stupidest hardcore conformists would disagree. Somehow you're supposed to and expected to always be happy and never be angry no matter what. Why are you not allowed to get upset from losing? Especially when your opponent is mocking you? How can you sit there and say "IdrAs behavior isn't OK because I think so because I've been taught that the norm says otherwise!"?
Well it's certainly the first time I've been called a conformist ^^
It's off topic, but it's going to be hard for you to argue that insulting the other player for no reason is "fine". That's my biggest problem with idra, not that he rages but he tries to justify it, which in turn is responsible for thousands of unapologetic raging teenagers on the ladder. BM is human, and understandable, but still pathetic. Don't want to turn this (wonderful...) topic into another idra bm thread though.
IdrA's bm is no different to any other players bm. Except unlike most players who occasionally bm if your meet him on the ladder you know you can get some personalised bm if you cheese him (its basically the equivalent of one of those pictures people get where they're throwing a punch at a famous boxer).
I wouldn't say Crunchers bm is ok either, but I think most people would act like that if they were in Crunchers situation.
IdrA isn't a bad player, his macro is very good, but he needs to learn that he's not playing IdrAcraft 2, the game where nobody cheeses and the player with the best macro wins every game. He seems to think that his macro style is the only style that should be viable and that anyone who players anything else, or tries to mix it up a bit, is bad. He's also very weak at mind-games, like Cruncher said, he's predictable and he assumes his opponents are as predictable as he is.
Of course I do not talk about my ZvP in specific now because that would make me kind of self-owned
Mondragon is so baller. He's like Rocky, even after all his success he still manages to make himself the underdog.
Heres the thing about the idra-cruncher thing and im out of it with it, no more pointless posts because i think it makes the forum worse than better: only the real brainless would QQ if cruncher outplays idra. Than his interview would be totally ok, he beat him. But nothing of the sort happened. He just won a Bo3 2-1, not playing especially well. So thats the problem with him, he speaks as if he washed the floor with idra, but it didnt happen, and idra's pre-match bm is still more-or-less accurate (as someone noted before: idra didnt expect 4gate, so that you cant take seriously).
Forgot to add: being upset, angry or whatever over this is so pointless when we have other awesome stuff to cheer for
On March 29 2011 20:07 MilesTeg wrote: Idra's behavior isn't fine, I think everyone but the stupidest hardcore fans agree on that. But everyone but the stupidest haters recognise he's a great player too. lot.
Of course it's fine. And only the stupidest hardcore conformists would disagree. Somehow you're supposed to and expected to always be happy and never be angry no matter what. Why are you not allowed to get upset from losing? Especially when your opponent is mocking you? How can you sit there and say "IdrAs behavior isn't OK because I think so because I've been taught that the norm says otherwise!"?
Lol, no it's not fine! Being angry is always fine, but insulting other people never is. Esp for e-Sports to develop and grow and eventually become more and more professional and comparable to "normal" sports. Just image a tennis player after a defeat, instead of shake-hands he says to his opponent "f--- you, you're a faggot, I have more skill" etc etc. I don't think this guy would have many fans. Can't understand how IdrA has any fans anyway. He is (1) bm, (2) arrogant and above all (3) not such a great and successful player.
I always go for the underdog, but there is no doubt Idra was/is the better player even from the losses. Probably didn't see Idras units (under the magic amount of you know whats)
i bet this hate thing between cruncher and idra started when idra picked a game against cruncher for JP and friends where cruncher did the most awefull cheesy 4-gate and got rolled and then left without saying gg (that's ragequitting yes? or that's what people call it when idra does it).
all this being said, it's all very silly lol. time will tell if cruncher sticks around, and personally i think he can, but so will idra. lots of drama to come? this will be like days of our lives^^
The funny thing is that people try to say that Cruncher just roled on the OP ness of toss. That when toss is on 3 bases pumping units zerg cant do shit. But how come Mondragon had no problem crushing toss on the same maps as Idra lost? I mean the skill between mondi and zeerax just cant be so much bigger then between idra and cruncher seeing how bad idra think that cruncher is.
If he is that bad and toss so op, then zeerax would have destroyed Mondragon easy but that did not happen.
Lol all the comments Cruncher made would be funny if he wasn't such a bad player, sorry but turtling on 3 bases with Col/vrs doesn't take skill, IdrA talks trash because he can back it up, he can't.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
OMG Tree hugger, best post of this whole thread so far. Problem with IdrA fan's is that they are as delusional as the person they admire (Not all of his fans but a good majority of them). And yeah this situation is a painful reminder of the Rekrul Post, it's pretty much word for word the same... and it's been two years??? Sheesh
From what I understand, most of TL followers never post on this awesome forum and just read it. So while it is okay to say that some Idra's fan rage because of what Cruncher did and are delusional, it is not okay to say that a good majority does, simply based on the comments on this thread.
EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
I just love Mondi in interviews - PLEASE let us see a Nony vs Mondi TSL rematch, let it happen!
The Cruncher/Idra discussion is senseless, everyone's stuck on their own opinion without even considering anything else. But it still is kinda funny :D
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: A hearty LOL at all of the IdrA fans coming in here to express their righteous outrage that CrunCher would dare take his well-deserved winners interview to call out his opponent for treating him like a speed bump in the run-up their series. All of the people dropping by to say "I hoped that CrunCher would've taken the opportunity to say what an honor it was to play IdrA and to then allocate a question of his interview to allow IdrA to plug his stream" need to remove the goggles and rejoin the real world. The world in which calling your opponent "a walkover" is an absurd insult, where telling your opponent he has no skill is ridiculous gamesmanship, and where predicting two four gate all-ins looks embarrassing when your opponent does nothing of the sort.
It's clear that IdrA didn't do any research on CrunCher besides his ladder games, which explains why he was convinced in his interview that CrunCher four gates constantly when any follower of CrunCher knows that he favors exactly the opposite. It's clear that IdrA has learned nothing from any of his plethora of embarrassing losses over his career. This happens again and again and yet IdrA keeps treating his peers like dirt and keeps reaping the rewards for his callousness. If you're going to be an IdrA fan, you better take your head out of the sand and start noticing this trend so you can anticipate it when it happens and stop mucking up Team Liquid when you go on tilt.
OMG Tree hugger, best post of this whole thread so far. Problem with IdrA fan's is that they are as delusional as the person they admire (Not all of his fans but a good majority of them). And yeah this situation is a painful reminder of the Rekrul Post, it's pretty much word for word the same... and it's been two years??? Sheesh
From what I understand, most of TL followers never post on this awesome forum and just read it. So while it is okay to say that some Idra's fan rage because of what Cruncher did and are delusional, it is not okay to say that a good majority does, simply based on the comments on this thread.
EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
Yes, you're definitely right. I think I'm a good example of what you're saying. Though I am no Idra fan.
On March 29 2011 20:07 MilesTeg wrote: Idra's behavior isn't fine, I think everyone but the stupidest hardcore fans agree on that. But everyone but the stupidest haters recognise he's a great player too. lot.
Of course it's fine. And only the stupidest hardcore conformists would disagree. Somehow you're supposed to and expected to always be happy and never be angry no matter what. Why are you not allowed to get upset from losing? Especially when your opponent is mocking you? How can you sit there and say "IdrAs behavior isn't OK because I think so because I've been taught that the norm says otherwise!"?
Lol, no it's not fine! Being angry is always fine, but insulting other people never is. Esp for e-Sports to develop and grow and eventually become more and more professional and comparable to "normal" sports. Just image a tennis player after a defeat, instead of shake-hands he says to his opponent "f--- you, you're a faggot, I have more skill" etc etc. I don't think this guy would have many fans. Can't understand how IdrA has any fans anyway. He is (1) bm, (2) arrogant and above all (3) not such a great and successful player.
If i beat someone in Tennis and that guy is known for having anger issues after losing, I'd not take it personally or even take offense by it if he/she called me a noob or idiot of faggot. I'd know (s)he were just mad for losing. Calling people names when calm and collected is another thing, but even there I'm not bothered. If idra were to literally call me or Cruncher a "fucking noob" on state of the game, I wouldn't care, let alone if he were to call someone overrated or bad. Criticism is ok and everyone has the right to speak their opinion, but taking offense by harsh words is for pussies
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
Where did you pull that interview from? I'd like to read the whole thing.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
The BW players are saying the same about BW/SC2. In wc3 skill was the only factor, there weren't many cheeses and they weren't effective at all and you didn't win games by choosing the right BO.
I mean Idra said that he and all the progamers are hating SC2 on a stream, so you could say the same about him.
On March 29 2011 22:11 Shooks wrote: Lol all the comments Cruncher made would be funny if he wasn't such a bad player, sorry but turtling on 3 bases with Col/vrs doesn't take skill, IdrA talks trash because he can back it up, he can't.
So if its so easy to do why do not all protoss win every game with it? why did not mondi get raped by it when he played zeerax?
Protoss is not op and Idra was just not good enough to win simple as that.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
Why is everyone crying about a little trash talking. I see nothing wrong with what cruncher did, it's going to happen in any competitive environment. If I was a no name defensive end that crushed a legend (not that I consider Idra a legend exactly but you get the idea) like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning, you're damn right I'm going to talk shit. While I might have respect for them, I'll be getting in their head and potentially throwing off their game so I'm doing it.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
yeah, he said the things idra said too in the past, big news. What you say makes so much no sense when you say it to defend idra who thinks the same and doesn't respect anyone, or the game, or the scene. Like idra deserve so much respect that he is allowed to trash talk someone that is not allowed to trash talk in return, seriously this is dumb.
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
Where did you pull that interview from? I'd like to read the whole thing.
On March 29 2011 22:11 Shooks wrote: Lol all the comments Cruncher made would be funny if he wasn't such a bad player, sorry but turtling on 3 bases with Col/vrs doesn't take skill, IdrA talks trash because he can back it up, he can't.
So if its so easy to do why do not all protoss win every game with it? why did not mondi get raped by it when he played zeerax?
Protoss is not op and Idra was just not good enough to win simple as that.
Are you seriously using the Mondragon-Zeerax match to compare with the Idra-Cruncher? Zeerax was not turtling and was basically RUSHING to Colossi + Air without any sort of proper gateway unit support. Cruncher on the other hand defended his 3 bases like a champ and crushed with an amazing unit combo. I'm not talking about balance; just pointing out that your comparison is not reasonable.
lol @ IdrA should be the best player because he has the best macro massing drones is a useful talent toi have.
there are so many other good and/or better zergs i don't even understand idra fanboys. least creative and most one dimensional player in competitive gaming. if he can't mass drones and win, then sc2 is OMG imbalanced.
Oh boy...so many people are raging with idra. It's not like Cruncher started BMing idra. They have longer history where idra was bming him and even showed a vid in JP's show how to destryo noob Ps (cruncher) who just 4gate and suck at it compared to koreans.
Cruncher is just striking back and not nearly as harshly as Idra. I guess fans are like that..
Mondragon was quite prepared for air, which gave him an advantage I guess, he also surprised his opponent with the masses of roaches. the game was quite epic, but its more the surprising tactic of an underdog that won the match in my opinion. We'll see in the next match
I don't know what to say about IdrA's zvp because he is just so ballerz, and a lot of times it just seems like he is way in the lead, but there is just no high economy answer to the big ball of p in late game. I feel like most zergs are trying to end it in a more short all/inish way, but thats just not IdrA's way. Cruncher made quite an analystic win, we'll see if his mechanics will be enough for the next round The grudge stuff isnt so interesting, but I think Cruncher wont be the last grudge enemy of IdrA :D Just wait for some Naniwa vs. IdrA on some random stream and the TRUE GRUDGE is on! :D
On March 29 2011 22:11 Shooks wrote: Lol all the comments Cruncher made would be funny if he wasn't such a bad player, sorry but turtling on 3 bases with Col/vrs doesn't take skill, IdrA talks trash because he can back it up, he can't.
So if its so easy to do why do not all protoss win every game with it? why did not mondi get raped by it when he played zeerax?
Protoss is not op and Idra was just not good enough to win simple as that.
I was using the build 2-3 months ago and never lost a game, pretty much every Protoss did win games when they did the build (It got out of fashion when every Protoss realized they're not gonna get better if they do the same skill-less strat), and I'll tell you right now that it's hands down the most boring strategy you could ever do.
Mondragon's games were completely different, the first map only having 1 gas in the natural so you have to take a quick 3rd if you plan to go Col/VR/Stalker, although the third is completely open, and on Shakuris, Zeerax could of just FF'd the roaches off.
Col/VR/Stalker is OP, simple as that, obviously Blizzard thought so too, since they buffed infestors. But to bad that the matches were played pre patch, hopefully Mondragon takes advantage of the buff.
Great interviews! Loved what Cruncher had to say. IdrA fans are taking eveything said toward Idra so seriously. Fact is, if you throw a punch be prepared to take a punch. Don't expect to be able to trash talk somebody and not have them talk trash back when they delete your name from the tourney bracket. GJ from all the winners though.
On March 29 2011 11:45 ReaperX wrote: [Cruncher]'s actually pretty professional with his interviews too.
Clearly you don't mean this interview. It is hardly professional to make every other response about how much you want to make your opponent 'rage' because you 'don't respect him.' That's not the behavior of a professional. That's the attitude of a troll, to induce as much rage as possible. He's no more professional than idra was in his pre-game interview. I'm all for the logic of 'return in kind' but let's call this what it is and not delude ourselves just because he managed to take a best of 3 off idra.
Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
He is playing the wrong game then. In that match up, letting a P sit on 3 base and get voids and colossus is a loss. I'm sure he knows that. The same way that having 5k/5k 10 minutes in the game is a loss. Just because he SHOULDN'T lose because he has a superior economy doesn't mean he is entitled to not lose. He should have done something to stop Cruncher from getting his comp.
On March 29 2011 23:19 synapse wrote: I found Cruncher's interview to be just as arrogant as he claims IdrA is. Props to him for the win, but he didn't exactly do anything amazing.
Lol that was my thought too. I love the way he acts like turtle -> VR/Colossi was something he had to work on a long time to figure out or that taking the free 3 bases you are given on Shakuras was an amazing revelation.
I'm officially a new Cruncher fan! What an awesome interview!!!
I can't believe all of the rage from Idra fans... omfg you guys are making my WEEEK!
It is hilararious to me that Idra's pregame interview was just as honest as Cruncher's post-game interview was, yet you all rage on Cruncher because he won and was honest. All of this 'sitting on 3 bases getting VRs/colossi isn't skill' talk cracks me up. It makes all of you Idra fans look soooo pathetic... You are all sounding just like him!!! It is like you all are claiming that VR/colossi is unbeatable and there is nothing Idra could have done... so funny I can't even believe it.
Loved the Cruncher interview. Usually, I'd think it was crude and lacked class but there's just something about how Idra draws it on himself that makes it very nice to see him get his just desserts.
That smiley face was my favourite part of the round of 32. All that was missing was a Firebathero dance and it would have been perfect.
The level of hypocrisy needed to say with a straight face provoking Idra makes you worse than him is rather high, really. Idra is not some innocent, helpless kitten that is unable to control himself, even though he wants to. When he leaves games without saying 'GG', or when he calls Cruncher a newbie and walkover before the game, that's not some uncontrollable action - or even him being 'refreshingly honest' - that's deliberately showing yourself in a certain way that sets you up for a fall.
Not to say Cruncher handled it well. He should have just hinted at being upset at Idra's actions and it would have been classier than his apparent dislike now.
On March 30 2011 00:09 Grumbels wrote: The level of hypocrisy needed to say with a straight face provoking Idra makes you worse than him is rather high, really. Idra is not some innocent, helpless kitten that is unable to control himself, even though he wants to. When he leaves games without saying 'GG', or when he calls Cruncher a newbie and walkover before the game, that's not some uncontrollable action - or even him being 'refreshingly honest' - that's deliberately showing yourself in a certain way that sets you up for a fall.
Not to say Cruncher handled it well. He should have just hinted at being upset at Idra's actions and it would have been classier than his apparent dislike now.
I would agree with you completely if it were not for all the harassment that Idra was doing between games in the game lobbies. I already got warned for posting the screenshots once but I think the smiley and this interview were justified. But all in all Idra and Cruncher are two of my favorite players! You know how in every NASL video everyone answered, "Do you have any rivals?" in the same boring fasion? Looks like we found ourselves some rivals
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
The BW players are saying the same about BW/SC2. In wc3 skill was the only factor, there weren't many cheeses and they weren't effective at all and you didn't win games by choosing the right BO.
I mean Idra said that he and all the progamers are hating SC2 on a stream, so you could say the same about him.
ummm.. saying skill is the only factor in WC3 is wrong... WC3 does have random elements based on luck, for instance items which are dropped by creeps. Also simply choosing a certain hero or tech route can have a huge impact on the game.. how is that different than choosing a certain BO? The reason WC3 doesn't have as much cheese is because there's no economy management in WC3 besides the upkeep system. You put 5 guys on gold and your done. There's no such thing really as cutting workers or "one basing" so when your doing the same exact thing every game economically there's no room for cheese. IMO this is a bad thing.. not a good thing. Makes the game very one dimensional and boring. Macro and economy management is one of the hardest things about an RTS game and WC3 has basically none of it. All games are based on who has the best micro and who can cast their spells the fastest and creep the best. SC2 requires skilled micro AND macro elements.. both games require skill, but SC2 requires skill in more areas than WC3. You could also probably even argue than SC2 is a more balanced game than WC3 and it's only been out a year. The hero system and 4 races makes the game ridiculously hard to balance which is a huge factor if your going to argue that WC3 is a better competitive game. To say WC3 is this game of huge skill and SC2 isn't is just a stupid statement.. Cruncher should realize the reason SC and SC2 are so much more successful than WC3 is because they are better competitive games..
I mean I can understand SC1 players making this argument and saying how their game takes "more skill" but to hear this coming from a WC3 player is just silly...
On March 29 2011 23:19 synapse wrote: I found Cruncher's interview to be just as arrogant as he claims IdrA is. Props to him for the win, but he didn't exactly do anything amazing.
Lol that was my thought too. I love the way he acts like turtle -> VR/Colossi was something he had to work on a long time to figure out or that taking the free 3 bases you are given on Shakuras was an amazing revelation.
Not only is this view unfair since there is no guaranteed path for protoss to win today, it is also irrelevant.
Idra knew full well BEFOREHAND he was facing a protoss. He was presumably aware of "death-balls" and he had played many games on Shakuras. Hell, he could even find replays with Cruncher doing the same exact strategy to other top players.
Knowing all this going into the game Idra never said "I am facing a bad player but protoss is OP so I may lose". Idra instead went ahead and called Cruncher a walkover! Then he acted like a child when he lost.
LOL at crucher thikig he is good. OP deathall game 1, get rolled game 2, the ause FFs game 3. pretty good. says idra is overrated but he is much better than cruncher. when everyone is expecting idra to win, its because he should, cruncher is a random lol
On March 29 2011 14:51 tree.hugger wrote: EDIT : In fact i'm pretty certain that the average follower of SCII who happens to be an Idra's fan would think that he had it coming. Not every fan of him thinks of him as some kind of deity. They're just fans.
The issue here isn't so much that he insulted idra, but that he is a nobody who says one of the most successful foreign players in both BW and SC2 isn't a good player. Furthermore, he doesn't even respect the game (now if he was a BW veteran he would have a right to say this), so basically he is just a WC3 player who switched to SC2 for money and has no respect for the scene
Cruncher : "would be so nice to play wc3 again after playing sc2. actually win games based on skill instead of retarded gameplay. too bad the general population sucks and blizzard is catering to sc2 like they did to wow so nubs feel good"
Cruncher: "sc2 is so much easier than wc3. half the games are rock paper scissors or flipping a coin right now"
The BW players are saying the same about BW/SC2. In wc3 skill was the only factor, there weren't many cheeses and they weren't effective at all and you didn't win games by choosing the right BO.
I mean Idra said that he and all the progamers are hating SC2 on a stream, so you could say the same about him.
ummm.. saying skill is the only factor in WC3 is wrong... WC3 does have random elements based on luck, for instance items which are dropped by creeps. Also simply choosing a certain hero or tech route can have a huge impact on the game.. how is that different than choosing a certain BO? The reason WC3 doesn't have as much cheese is because there's no economy management in WC3 besides the upkeep system. You put 5 guys on gold and your done. There's no such thing really as cutting workers or "one basing" so when your doing the same exact thing every game economically there's no room for cheese. IMO this is a bad thing.. not a good thing. Makes the game very one dimensional and boring. Macro and economy management is one of the hardest things about an RTS game and WC3 has basically none of it. All games are based on who has the best micro and who can cast their spells the fastest and creep the best. SC2 requires skilled micro AND macro elements.. both games require skill, but SC2 requires skill in more areas than WC3. You could also probably even argue than SC2 is a more balanced game than WC3 and it's only been out a year. The hero system and 4 races makes the game ridiculously hard to balance which is a huge factor if your going to argue that WC3 is a better competitive game. To say WC3 is this game of huge skill and SC2 isn't is just a stupid statement.. Cruncher should realize the reason SC and SC2 are so much more successful than WC3 is because they are better competitive games..
I mean I can understand SC1 players making this argument and saying how their game takes "more skill" but to hear this coming from a WC3 player is just silly...
You have no idea how to play WC3 bro.
It is relatively balanced because the metagame has developed to the point that there is only ONE viable opening / strategy for each race, and everyone knows exactly what creep routes to take, and has basically seen everything.
At the pro level, there are some imbalances that start to pop up like Blademaster vs UD, but that's another story.
SC2 is not a better competitive game than WC3; SC2 has had the backing of Blizzard from the start flooding it with money. WC3 had no such backing early on, and yet up until very, very, very recently it was leading the way for international RTS play. In terms of actual gameplay, SC2 is grossly way more imbalanced than WC3, with alot more broken mechanics (very volatile early game, alot of mechanics that are deemed unfair like FF, extremely broken match-ups like PvZ, TvP, etc.)
Anyone saying that Cruncher having a little fun at Idra's expense is going too far is defending the indefensible. Idra dug his own grave by saying the harsh shit he said about an opponent he didn't know much about. By Cruncher winning the series, he gets to put Idra in his place. If one is going to talk shit, it would be in their best interest to back up their claims, regardless of perceived imbalance. With all the experience Idra has along with his self-proclaimed skill he should have had no problem beating Cruncher; since he did not, Cruncher gets to retaliate. I, personally, think that is his right. You babies talking about BM ruining your watching experience would hate fighting game players, that's for sure. God forbid somebody says something mean about your favorite player!
On March 29 2011 23:19 synapse wrote: I found Cruncher's interview to be just as arrogant as he claims IdrA is. Props to him for the win, but he didn't exactly do anything amazing.
Lol that was my thought too. I love the way he acts like turtle -> VR/Colossi was something he had to work on a long time to figure out or that taking the free 3 bases you are given on Shakuras was an amazing revelation.
Not only is this view unfair since there is no guaranteed path for protoss to win today, it is also irrelevant.
Idra knew full well BEFOREHAND he was facing a protoss. He was presumably aware of "death-balls" and he had played many games on Shakuras. Hell, he could even find replays with Cruncher doing the same exact strategy to other top players.
Knowing all this going into the game Idra never said "I am facing a bad player but protoss is OP so I may lose". Idra instead went ahead and called Cruncher a walkover! Then he acted like a child when he lost.
So yeah, good job Cruncher.
Most of all I enjoyed Nada's interview btw.
I didn't mention IdrA once in my statement. You presumably didn't even read my post because your reply is completely unrelated.
Cruncher's choice of strategy was good, but it's just about the most vanilla Protoss thing you can do. It's something you will see again and again playing x-positions Shakuras ZvP because it's common knowledge that Shakuras is a great map to turtle on and everyone knows colossi/vr is a good unit composition.
So it's odd/funny to kind of talk like you really worked out this new thing to do on Shakuras when it's super common.
Cruncher's interview is funny, but he really took the low road here. Yes, IdrA isn't well mannered, but Cruncher just demonstrated that neither is he. I think if he just acted modestly, he would have earned more fans and showed that he's a different kind of player.
lol @ cruncher, he gets outplayed and turtles up in game 1 winning with an imba unit composition that George Forman could win with, gets WORKED in game 2, and cheeses/gets lucky with a forcefield donut to win game 3... Then brags about it.
How do protoss players feel when they donut roaches and win straight up like that? Doesn't that feel broken to them? I know that everyones ego will say "but im good! thats why i can do that!" but its not really the case... Its a broken mechanic that completely negates every zerg option until burrow movement or OL drop.
Takes a lot out of the game, its not fun to watch at all... MC vs July was a joke, and so was this. I miss the real e-sports
I don't get all this talk about calls for "maturity" and "class" from Cruncher. IdrA kept calling him terrible, and Cruncher walked over him, he's earned the right to be happy and brag about it in his victory interview. There's something to be said about progamers who aren't afraid to show character (IrdA included). I don't' want to read every interview about how, "Oh my opponent was so good I only got lucky that I prepared well for this match. I only wanted to give some good games, I didn't care about winning or losing." No, let's have some trashtalking, some rivalries, some callouts, some cocky and arrogant assholes, it gives the community more color, makes results (such as upset like these) more exciting, and makes it look less like progamers are a bunch of pieces of wood that play rally good SC2.
On March 30 2011 01:04 mesohawny wrote: lol @ cruncher, he gets outplayed and turtles up in game 1 winning with an imba unit composition that George Forman could win with, gets WORKED in game 2, and cheeses/gets lucky with a forcefield donut to win game 3... Then brags about it.
How do protoss players feel when they donut roaches and win straight up like that? Doesn't that feel broken to them? I know that everyones ego will say "but im good! thats why i can do that!" but its not really the case... Its a broken mechanic that completely negates every zerg option until burrow movement or OL drop.
Takes a lot out of the game, its not fun to watch at all... MC vs July was a joke, and so was this. I miss the real e-sports
If Idra really outplayed him in game 1 then why did he even let Cruncher form the deathball? Seems a little silly to me to sit back and just let Protoss get three bases and build units almost completely uncontested, no drops, no trading of units and only roaches, hydras and corrupters, not exactly the strongest unit composition. And in game three, was it just bad luck that Idra was still building drones even as the toss forces were heading for his natural and he'd already scouted them? Why not make roaches or lings instead? Why were there no spine crawlers in place? Sounds more like either a stupid mistake or a foolish decision to me.
And how do you expect Cruncher to react after the way Idra talked about him in the run up to the game? I guarantee that 99.9% of the people comdeming him in this thread would do exactly the same as Cruncher after the disrespect Idra showed him. Maybe he should have taken the high road and not talked down to Idra afterwards but frankly I don't blame him and Idra should expect it after the way he behaved. If you're gonna talk shit about another player you better make damn sure you back your words up or you just end up looking like the fool.
On March 30 2011 01:04 mesohawny wrote: lol @ cruncher, he gets outplayed and turtles up in game 1 winning with an imba unit composition that George Forman could win with, gets WORKED in game 2, and cheeses/gets lucky with a forcefield donut to win game 3... Then brags about it.
How do protoss players feel when they donut roaches and win straight up like that? Doesn't that feel broken to them? I know that everyones ego will say "but im good! thats why i can do that!" but its not really the case... Its a broken mechanic that completely negates every zerg option until burrow movement or OL drop.
Takes a lot out of the game, its not fun to watch at all... MC vs July was a joke, and so was this. I miss the real e-sports
paraphrasing Tasteless "For all those jobbers out there who are complaining about imbalances etc etc"
At the highest level, some zerg players like Sen are really frustrated by forcefields. But ZvP is not broken yet thank you. Burrow play, drop play, overseer play (Sniping observers, contamination, etc etc), infestor play, blingvprotoss play, mass queen-transfuse play has yet to be fully explored. Idra also incidentally plays a VERY passive style, which he doens't have to. Game 2 showed his aggro micro ability and it was a total spectacle.
Not fun to watch? most of TL is totally mesmerised by TSL atm.
I'm happy all these guys won (even though i voted against all of them ) ! They will make the TSL more awesome.
I'm a bit sad for Haypro and TLO though
PS: Cruncher did outplay Idra. Even if he is worse in mechanics (although i doubt micro), he was the much better player strategy- and tactics-wise. Idra got outplayed, get over it.
To be honest, having 'absolutely zero respect' for Idra doesn't make CrunCher come across any better to me. I didn't mind the smiley at all, it was deserved and funny.
He would have been a total boss if he'd kept it respectful towards Idra instead of counter-raging in the post-match interview imo =P
If you're a zerg player, that had to be painful to watch. Game 1, It's such a familiar scene to lose on Shakuras like that; not so bad when it's cross positions, but for me, when I get stuck on roach/hydra, even using drop to hit a lot of places at once, eventually you need to deal with the deathball directly, and often you'll just lose in one push. With the way Shakuras is, even after the map change, it'll likely still be common for a protoss to get on 6 gas and just roll you. It does get to a point where a protoss army becomes very efficient, and throwing resources at the problem won't work. There's real incentive for zergs to try and end the game earlier; at some point you just have to stay aggressive because the situation simply will not get better for you.
Game 3, I'm not so sure he did anything TOO wrong; he doesn't ever actually see 5 gates (?) but he does continue producing drones along with roaches.
4:43 saw one gateway with an ovie 5:44 saw a nexus at crunchers nat with his ovie 6:09 starts ovie speed + roach speed, starts making roaches 6:12 sees protoss move out with zerglings (at front of crunchers base)
From this point onward, Idra starts adding a lot of roaches (along with those drones) for the push. I feel like he had enough roaches to deal with it, strictly in a numbers sense, especially with the reinforcements, but with the FF's those 5 roaches got smashed.
I can think of ways to defend it, say, with spines or just skipping the drones for other units, but I guess Idra is used to cutting it close and defending with just that number of roaches. In hindsight, getting burrow would've worked out better than speed; but seriously, as a zerg player I would probably 99% of the time go for roach speed first.
So nothing terribly wrong, but got beat. We should be glad, since it'll encourage Idra to work on his game more, so we can of course steal all his builds
Cruncher: "ihihihihi IdrA must be ragin' so haaard now!" *celebrates himself*
IdrA: "terrible game." *sigh* *prepares dinner*
Not really an IdrA fan (manner wise), but that there are still people who think that after a loss IdrA would sit there, looking at his screen in anger while smashing his keyboard is rather silly. He pretty much lost faith in training and it's more than obvious that right now (or at least until patch day), he doesn't enjoy practicing very much. I'd go as far and guess that a good amount of Team Liquid Users play more than he does right now and that makes me kinda sad, as he definitely has potential (skill-wise). Guess only time will tell if he can actually get out of his recent slump and focus his mind on his own weaknesses to work on for future tournaments. He has shown many times that he is capable of playing awesome, entertaining games.
Btw: This war between the IdrA-Haters (who say that idra fanboys are idiots while being equally or even more stupid) and the IdrA-Fanboys is pretty hilarious. Also, moderation appears to have hit an all time low in this thread... Why are people who end their post with "everybody who disagrees is brainless/stupid/a communist" tolerated in a thread like this? Imo they are worse than balance whiners, because they spend their time in a discussion board without the desire to discuss whatsoever. They got their opinion and by putting it that way insult everybody who begs to differ, thus stiring up heat big time!
Wow... now this post is much longer than it should've been.
The highlight of this day for me personally was watching Idra lose. haha... Nothing brings a smile to my face faster then watching a player with a condesending attitude lose a game to a 'supposed' underdog. .
Idra needs to find the location of his G key on his keyboard for future games. Its just plain and simple sportsmanship. Cruncher played well and deserves a GG for his efforts. Bring on the next round!!!!
I find it hilarious that he devotes basically the entire interview to talking about Idra, whereas Idra pretty much treats him like any other newbie he faces on the ladder, and he claims that Idra is raging. He still doesn't care, he will tell you he lost to Protoss not to Cruncher. It's funny to me that he thinks he's somehow exposed Idra and is in his head when Idra likely thinks exactly what he thought before the games.
Also the whole 'my team and I came up with this build" for the Shakuras game. The first time him and his team heard about it was probably on the hit SC2 show "Imbalanced!"
idra is a big win for anyone but Cruncher makes it sound so personal when Idra probably doesn't care at all on a personal level
It seems like Cruncher and I share an opinion on Idra.
That's all I'm gonna say about that.
Otherwise this was a great day for the tournament as a whole and I really, really enjoyed watching it.
I think the only prediction that I missed was the Zeerax/Mondragon one because I never followed SC1 very closely and figured qualifier > unknown invite.
Glad to be proved wrong on that one, Mondragon showed some amazing play.
CrunCher interview is hilarious. Kas amazes me as always, especially with his training partners (I mean those names are legends in themselves) Mondragon seems like a cool guy. Nada humble and likable.
After the way Idra treated Cruncher before and during this game was anyone seriously expecting him to be humble in his interview?
Judge Cruncher by how he aproachs the rest of this tournament, playing against people who dont call him terrible and predictable multiple times before and during matches.
Top quality and professional content again Team Liquid, my first TSL i really hope to see many more
Cruncher's interview comes off as very immature. I've sat in his stream before and he demonstrates the same kind of demeanor. I'm of the mind that he should have taken the higher road. However, acting like a complete troll seems to be winning over the other trolls on this forum.
Guess I'm just a guy that enjoys people with some humility. GL Mondragon!
If Idra was a hornet's nest, Cruncher's apparently holding the stick. But I think he went a bit overboard when he doesn't have to lower himself to Idra's level. Does he really want long term notoriety that Idra has? It's still the most interesting interview, I guess. Oh and today's oGsMC appearance taught us all how to be hilarious when BM'ing rather than hurt people's feelings + Show Spoiler +
Look when it's his turn to play in game 1 of 2nd day of the exhibition World vs Korea match
Crucher is lucky.... Idra was definitely not playing his best in Game 3 and anyone who doesn't know that is just being silly. Also, it's good for the community to have a polarizing player like Idra; it keeps things interesting.
I don't really agree with Cruncher, IdrA is a really good player, he's just really emotionnal... He played really well in game 1, IdrA didn't attack enough and let him get a void/colo ball that was unbeatable ! On game 2, IdrA was clearly All Over Baby... On game 3, the mind game was great, IdrA didn't have enough units when the push came, at one point he made about 7 drones instead of units, that might have changed the outcome... About the rage part, well, as he said, loads of IdrA's fan love when he rages so Cruncher played the fans game making him rage... He might have no respect for IdrA but thanks to that kind of bm, people were talking about him [Cruncher] so does he deserve more respect, i don't know... He could have handeled it with classe but there wouldn't be any "buzz" then...
So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
So artosis should punch cella in the face because cella was bm for saying team korea would take them out 4-1? Oh I get it now, makes perfect sense.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
So artosis should punch cella in the face because cella was bm for saying team korea would take them out 4-1? Oh I get it now, makes perfect sense.
Ah yes, comparing online trash talk to physical violence. We've now reached rock bottom. Even with that aside, if you can't see the difference between predicting a score and comparing an opponent to a walkover, you need to seek professional help. If idra was just being honest with that comment, then cruncher was just being honest when he stated that he thinks idra is overrated.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Yes, it is BM. In any competitive sport pretty much the biggest insult you can make to someone is to dismiss them as being easy, not worthwhile or a walkover. There was no need for Idra to say that he was approaching this as a walkover even if he thought he was so much better, he could have just said he expected to win without the insult, that is pretty much the definition of bad mannered.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
So artosis should punch cella in the face because cella was bm for saying team korea would take them out 4-1? Oh I get it now, makes perfect sense.
That doesn't even make sense, how did anything lead to that? If The world had won and Artosis had come back with a "bm" quote it would be reasonable. You're making it seem like what Cruncher said was 1000x worse then what IdrA had said.
I loved Mondragon and NaDa's interviews. Mondragon has a good sense of modesty, or perhaps he is hustling us? I still don't quite know how good he is. And NaDa seems to just be an all around good guy. Cruncher just doesn't seem like the kind of guy I'd want to hang around.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
So artosis should punch cella in the face because cella was bm for saying team korea would take them out 4-1? Oh I get it now, makes perfect sense.
Ah yes, comparing online trash talk to physical violence. We've now reached rock bottom. Even with that aside, if you can't see the difference between predicting a score and comparing an opponent to a walkover, you need to seek professional help. If idra was just being honest with that comment, then cruncher was just being honest when he stated that he thinks idra is overrated.
He's free to think idra is overrated, no one said that's rude, but if 80% of an interview states how you think you made your opponent rage and bragging about it, that's just fucking pathetic. Saying Idra is overrated is fine, the smiley is fine but the interview was just sad.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Yes, it is BM. In any competitive sport pretty much the biggest insult you can make to someone is to dismiss them as being easy, not worthwhile or a walkover. There was no need for Idra to say that he was approaching this as a walkover even if he thought he was so much better, he could have just said he expected to win without the insult, that is pretty much the definition of bad mannered.
No it isn't, there's a difference between not being humble and trashtalking your opponent. You're confusing cocky with bm.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Oh, I get it now. Idra was just being honest, but cruncher wasn't. Makes perfect sense.
So artosis should punch cella in the face because cella was bm for saying team korea would take them out 4-1? Oh I get it now, makes perfect sense.
That doesn't even make sense, how did anything lead to that? If The world had won and Artosis had come back with a "bm" quote it would be reasonable. You're making it seem like what Cruncher said was 1000x worse then what IdrA had said.
Not saying what Cruncher said was 1000x worse than what IdrA said, just saying that cruncher's interview was rather pathetic.
I can't believe I read nearly the entire thread, most of it is people who are in Idra's fanclub trying to hate on Cruncher. You're supporting the most arrogant and awful mannered person in this community, he's going to get flamed back and if he comes across the wrong person he'll probably get punched in the face as well.
No need to get so bitter over comments someone makes about your hero, especially not when your hero was the guy being a dick and basically asking to get flamed.
That said I absolutely love Cruncher's interview, it's about time someone said those things.
On March 30 2011 04:39 dunc wrote: I can't believe I read nearly the entire thread, most of it is people who are in Idra's fanclub trying to hate on Cruncher. You're supporting the most arrogant and awful mannered person in this community, he's going to get flamed back and if he comes across the wrong person he'll probably get punched in the face as well.
No need to get so bitter over comments someone makes about your hero, especially not when your hero was the guy being a dick and basically asking to get flamed.
That said I absolutely love Cruncher's interview, it's about time someone said those things.
It's mostly Idra's anti-fanclub hating on Idra, Idra did deserve it, doesn't mean cruncher's interview was a bit sad. Do it during the matches/after the matches, no need to keep bragging about how bad mannered you acted in an interview afterwards. I didn't see zenio brag about his ceremony in the same manner after he won vs idra.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
What was idra angry about when he made that walkover comment in the pre-match interview?
That's not bm, that's just answering the questions honestly, as you can see from the matches it's not something he should've done. Thinking you're better than someone may be cocky in some situations, but in no way is it bm.
Yes, it is BM. In any competitive sport pretty much the biggest insult you can make to someone is to dismiss them as being easy, not worthwhile or a walkover. There was no need for Idra to say that he was approaching this as a walkover even if he thought he was so much better, he could have just said he expected to win without the insult, that is pretty much the definition of bad mannered.
No it isn't, there's a difference between not being humble and trashtalking your opponent. You're confusing cocky with bm.
Cocky is being over-confident but not necessarily insulting, what Idra did was insulting, and frankly being cocky is bad mannered anyway, please stop making excuses for Idra's behaviour, Crunchy's wasn't much better frankly but Idra should not make comments then fail to back them up, it just makes you look foolish and only serves to highlight what he said in the first place.
On March 30 2011 04:39 dunc wrote: I can't believe I read nearly the entire thread, most of it is people who are in Idra's fanclub trying to hate on Cruncher. You're supporting the most arrogant and awful mannered person in this community, he's going to get flamed back and if he comes across the wrong person he'll probably get punched in the face as well.
No need to get so bitter over comments someone makes about your hero, especially not when your hero was the guy being a dick and basically asking to get flamed.
That said I absolutely love Cruncher's interview, it's about time someone said those things.
It's mostly Idra's anti-fanclub hating on Idra, Idra did deserve it, doesn't mean cruncher's interview was a bit sad. Do it during the matches/after the matches, no need to keep bragging about how bad mannered you acted in an interview afterwards. I didn't see zenio brag about his ceremony in the same manner after he won vs idra.
How did he act bad mannered in the games? The smiley? That is a bit BM yeah but considering the opponent said the match was a walkover it was not horrible out there.
Apart from that he is mostly lauging at IdrA raging, and dissing him pretty hard, in the interview. Hut he did not decide what questions to be asked, if you think the interview focuses to much on the "drama" blame the interviewer imo.
In any gameplay related interviews, Idra comes out as logical and knowledgeable. He knows his stuff. You can question his bad manner, but questioning his ability at playing sc2 is a little over the top. Cruncher's interview gets no points from me.
Well Cruncher was direct, It kind of makes me think twice about morrow said in his pre-interview. Even if your a established/qualified player, doing this loltroll against a GSL veteran shows his character. Regardless, awesome games, seeing some really interesting stuff. poor team liquid
I'm really happy for Mondragon, he's my absolute favorite zerg player other than ret. (BW!!)
I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
On March 30 2011 05:13 Sideburn wrote: I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
Crunchers just responded with the same candor and honesty that Idra fans revere. I don't see it as being BM or unprofessional at all. All he did was point out everything that we already knew: Idra is a player that relies more on hard work than talent, takes the game very personally, and can be extremely petty when he loses.
I'm a huge Idra fan by the way, but I don't pretend that some of the criticism of Idra's personality or game isn't unwarranted.
On March 29 2011 22:04 purpose wrote: The funny thing is that people try to say that Cruncher just roled on the OP ness of toss. That when toss is on 3 bases pumping units zerg cant do shit. But how come Mondragon had no problem crushing toss on the same maps as Idra lost? I mean the skill between mondi and zeerax just cant be so much bigger then between idra and cruncher seeing how bad idra think that cruncher is.
If he is that bad and toss so op, then zeerax would have destroyed Mondragon easy but that did not happen.
Mondragons opponent took expos a lot faster than cruncher, and it helped that zeerax donated plenty of collusus to him. Zeerax played completely different than cruncher so its hard to compare the two matches.
On March 30 2011 05:13 Sideburn wrote: I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
Not really. If you want drama go watch Desperate Housewives.
On March 30 2011 04:39 dunc wrote: I can't believe I read nearly the entire thread, most of it is people who are in Idra's fanclub trying to hate on Cruncher. You're supporting the most arrogant and awful mannered person in this community, he's going to get flamed back and if he comes across the wrong person he'll probably get punched in the face as well.
No need to get so bitter over comments someone makes about your hero, especially not when your hero was the guy being a dick and basically asking to get flamed.
That said I absolutely love Cruncher's interview, it's about time someone said those things.
It's mostly Idra's anti-fanclub hating on Idra, Idra did deserve it, doesn't mean cruncher's interview was a bit sad. Do it during the matches/after the matches, no need to keep bragging about how bad mannered you acted in an interview afterwards. I didn't see zenio brag about his ceremony in the same manner after he won vs idra.
How did he act bad mannered in the games? The smiley? That is a bit BM yeah but considering the opponent said the match was a walkover it was not horrible out there.
Apart from that he is mostly lauging at IdrA raging, and dissing him pretty hard, in the interview. Hut he did not decide what questions to be asked, if you think the interview focuses to much on the "drama" blame the interviewer imo.
The smiley wasn't actually bm, bad choice of words from me, bragging about making someone rage in an interview is just pathetic.
To the other poster, if you genuinly think you're far better than someone it's not bad mannered to say so, it would be bad mannered if idra would completely trash talk him saying he didn't deserve to be in the TSL. MC said about the same thing about his opponent. Just IdrA looking silly for actually losing against a "walkover".
On March 30 2011 05:13 Sideburn wrote: I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
Wait, what, we have to cheer at trashtalking now "for e-sports"? There's a reason Chill makes fun of people who say that.
I think IdrA induced the behaviour of Cruncher with his, let's call it "over-confindent" statements before the games even started.
And somehow it is satisfying to see someone in the professional area of gaming to be honest about IdrAs bad attitude and responding in a way, IdrA deserves.
Nevertheless: These three games became an instant classic. The smiley of game 3 is priceless, as mentioned before.
You all who like cruncher are sadly pathetic. IdrA has so much more talent it is hard for me to believe that you actually think cruncher deserved to move on. Just because Cruncher can abuse things as protoss does not make him good, which is why IdrA deserves to rage. I dont think that you should have to say GG to someone you know you are better than, but just abuses the game. It is like when the game first came out and everyone 5 rax reaperd... are those players better than you? Take a look at IdrA and Artosis's videos about why 2-3 base protoss turtle is imbalanced. The only reason IdrA took game two was because of the map size and distance between expansions. That gave him plenty of room to drop. On shakuras there is very little room and proper splitting of an army and a few cannons easily holds drops. For real though, Chruncher L2P please before you talk bad about IdrA.
EDIT:
I do realize that the last game Cruncher deserved to win. That was not imba it was just sneaky play that IdrA didnt prepare for.
On March 30 2011 04:32 ampson wrote: I loved Mondragon and NaDa's interviews. Mondragon has a good sense of modesty, or perhaps he is hustling us? I still don't quite know how good he is.
In TSL2, he pretty much said he was the worst player left right from the start, all the way to the finals, even though everyone knew he was one of the favourites to win. Horribly understating his abilities is pretty much par for the course for Mondragon. There's a reason that more people voted for him than Zeerax in the brackets/liquibets even though no one had seen him in a SC2 setting... and that's not a shot at Zeerax's abilities at all.
I've never been able to decide if it's false modesty (which is annoying) or if he actually has an inferiority complex... Either way, he has ridiculous amounts of RTS talent, even though he often doesn't practice as much as many other top players. However long he lasts in this TSL, I fully expect him to say he's the underdog in every interview until he's out or he wins the whole thing.
It isnt about Idra being better that another player you just have to show some repect to other players. I mean obviously there arent bad players in a tournament like this and you shouldn't act like your opponent is stupid or something.
The people who say "Idra is right bla blah he is 10 times better, Cruncher shut your mouth" have to understand that those things dont matter. Show respect to your opponent, dont be cocky and if it is really the games fault that u lose all the time then stop it. It must be imba or something but i dont believe that this is the only reason someone like Idra loses from time to time. There might be some balance problems but Idra doesnt play perfect and makes mistakes too of course.
Cruncher isnt bad at all obviously... idra should really act professional. I mean Jinro for example wouldnt rage like Idra did (i think... of course i dont know him). Even other zergs arent that offensive!
I wrote this because i believe what cruncher wrote there is completely true. It's just not spoken out often enough. These Idra "fans" may say:" Thats what makes him great and it's kind of an Idra trademark" and so on... but really it's childish and he deserves the loss everytime he acts cocky and makes fun of his opponents before the match is even played.
There isnt much to talk about: Idra manner up pls... Cruncher did the right thing maybe idra will learn it some day as well. I mean he got what he deserved that series... i think.
Of course i dont know their b net history but i feel that Idra is the "bad guy" here just because he raged often enough in the past and offended other people just because he lost to them. Kinda looks like airs and graces to me.
Other than that nadas interview is quite good he seems to be a nice guy. I also hope Mondragon will perform well the next games. He practiced with Testie, didnt even knew Testie plays sc2. Would be quite nice to see some of his games =)
Edit: Quite some Idra bashing on my post sorry about that but one last thing just came into my mind: Look at Morrow. He is an absolutely great zerg player. Was in a final already and has really solid style. Who said Morrow isnt good, Morrow will never be someone with zerg? right... I dont hate on Idra but he really deserved that one now. He should change Oo
On March 30 2011 06:14 Sc2ttyl wrote: You all who like cruncher are sadly pathetic. IdrA has so much more talent it is hard for me to believe that you actually think cruncher deserved to move on. Just because Cruncher can abuse things as protoss does not make him good, which is why IdrA deserves to rage. I dont think that you should have to say GG to someone you know you are better than, but just abuses the game. It is like when the game first came out and everyone 5 rax reaperd... are those players better than you? Take a look at IdrA and Artosis's videos about why 2-3 base protoss turtle is imbalanced. The only reason IdrA took game two was because of the map size and distance between expansions. That gave him plenty of room to drop. On shakuras there is very little room and proper splitting of an army and a few cannons easily holds drops. For real though, Chruncher L2P please before you talk bad about IdrA.
EDIT:
I do realize that the last game Cruncher deserved to win. That was not imba it was just sneaky play that IdrA didnt prepare for.
Game 3 was played pretty well by cruncher, not really impressed with game 1, Cruncher bad talking IdrA is completely justified. Still think Cruncher is pathetic as a person though.
On March 30 2011 05:13 Sideburn wrote: I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
Wait, what, we have to cheer at trashtalking now "for e-sports"? There's a reason Chill makes fun of people who say that.
Trashtalking to a certain degree actually adds more to the game than you think.
There isnt much to talk about: Idra manner up pls... Cruncher did the right thing maybe idra will learn it some day as well. I mean he got what he deserved that series... i think.
this ^
really? IdrA can say what he wants to say. Don't act like its "being unprofessional" or something just because it offends you. There is no rule in life that says you cannot speak your mind. As for Cruncher, iam not saying the stuff he said was bad either because he just spoke his mind. In the end, IdrA did not "get what he deserved" because that would mean a victory.I wonder why there are so many protoss now adays, because iam sure half of them play the style that actually wont allow you to alt-tab during a game and win (http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/us/1/all)
I didn't like Crunchers interview. He sounded way too obsessed with IdrA for one thing. I don't agree with what IdrA has said to him, but in the way Cruncher is responding, he is just bringing himself down to IdrA's level. Calling IdrA overrated? Thats just silly, hate or love him, IdrA has been a consitent top 3 foreigner since the beta, thats an un-arguable fact.
But w/e, for Crunchers sake, I hope he realizes that a lot of the things he said could easily apply to himself. The metagame is in protoss's favor right now, there is no denying that. Once a balance patch comes through, or the metagame changes, he's going to have to be practicing just as much as IdrA if he wants to be sucessful and not Silver 2.0. just my 2 cents
There isnt much to talk about: Idra manner up pls... Cruncher did the right thing maybe idra will learn it some day as well. I mean he got what he deserved that series... i think.
this ^
really? IdrA can say what he wants to say. Don't act like its "being unprofessional" or something just because it offends you. There is no rule in life that says you cannot speak your mind. As for Cruncher, iam not saying the stuff he said was bad either because he just spoke his mind. In the end, IdrA did not "get what he deserved" because that would mean a victory.I wonder why there are so many protoss now adays, because iam sure half of them play the style that actually wont allow you to alt-tab during a game and win (http://sc2ranks.com/stats/league/us/1/all)
What was special about idras play in the last game? Overdroning? You're right he is without any doubt the better player overall... What i really mean is that he deserved it because he talked about an "easy win" beforehand. There are other zerg players that also know the balance problems sc2 has but most of them actually dont insult everyone. It's not about skill what i talk about it's about behaviour. Im not too srict on that u can tilt from time to time but Idra does it too often. Just dont be an ass Oo
the level of bias and double standards is astonishing me. apparently people want that there favorite player has absolute freedom to behave like he wants, while the other person should take the shit like a saint.
wasnt Idra saying things like "you gotta relieve your anger" when he talks about his bm. so this is ok when you are unsatisfied with the general state of the game, your opponent plays his best and wins games vs you (what a crime) or its ok to trashtalk players right off the bat..
..but when someone gets disrespected and offended as a player several times then the healthiest way is to bottle everything up, right? (irony)
sure in a perfect world you wouldnt "get down on the same level" etc.. I am also not cheering cruncher to give Idra shit back.. I just dont like this onesided judgements. but maybe Idra cares less than some of his fans and doesnt got this double standard view himself.
I'm an IdrA fan and now I'm also a Cruncher fan. I absolutely love the BM/drama personality. Starcraft is a game and putting on a show adding viscous personality flair just makes for that much more entertainment. It's no coincidence that the series between these two has received the most attention. People love the tension, BM, and drama. Well played from both of you.
You have to ask yourself though: why does Idra keep losing in high stakes games that he should win? Nony last TSL, a thirteen-year-old Koll in WCG grand finals, F91, Cruncher now... He just isn't a winner. It is as simple as that. Players who practice much less than he does just use whatever resources they have in their game to beat him. If they practiced as much as Idra it wouldn't even be close.
What was special about idras play in the last game? Overdroning? You're right he is without any doubt the better player overall... What i really mean is that he deserved it because he talked about an "easy win" beforehand. There are other zerg players that also know the balance problems sc2 has but most of them actually dont insult everyone. It's not about skill what i talk about it's about behaviour. Im not too srict on that u can tilt from time to time but Idra does it too often. Just dont be an ass Oo
I totally agree with you. There is no doubt IdrA is a strong player and he has shown in the last months his stamina, experience and good mechanics. But all games with IdrA I really do remember well contain some kind of raging and insults from IdrAs side. In my opinion IdrAs style is somehow conservative and thus boring to watch (just my opinion).
In fact I know IdrA more because of his attitude and the whole drama in some games than because of his gamestyle.
And the YouTube show "Imbalanced" he made with Artosis. I dont know, the whole show is kind of biased. I have mixed feelings with that and I tend to Day9s opinion about that.
In conclusion: I am also frustrated after a loss and I sometimes start to say insults (but only in front of the screen). Usually the "worst" I do is to ragequit without gg (in ladder games). But if I would insult someone, because I lost to him, and if I knew that thousands would see it, I just would be embarrassed and would feel like a stupid idiot for behaving like a 3 year old child. IdrA should accept that for being a great player and not only a good player,you need some kind of humbleness and respect to your opponents. Who will respect you, if you do not respect anyone else? IdrA is just making a fool of himself with this kind of behaviour.
Edit: Sorry for doubleposting. I got confused a bit.
On March 30 2011 05:13 Sideburn wrote: I feel that the community's ridiculous sycophancy and bizarre korean-influenced attitude towards trash talk (such as referring to it as "BM") is a huge limiting factor towards starcraft becoming a respectable e-sport.
Wait, what, we have to cheer at trashtalking now "for e-sports"? There's a reason Chill makes fun of people who say that.
Trashtalking to a certain degree actually adds more to the game than you think.
? I didn't say what I thought of the whole trashtalking aspect of the game, just saying that people who get annoyed by it shouldn't be silenced just by blindly exclaiming "..for e-sports!". SC2's growth is supposed to come from an interested audience, and saying "be interested!" when a part of them aren't isn't exactly the best way to argue. People have a right to their opinion and they shouldn't be shunned because it doesn't fit into your arbitrary model for how to grow e-sports.
Personally, I find this whole aspect of Idra tiresome as first of all it's never about the games, always about some controversial remark, and second, it's entirely predictable. I realize just that's my opinion and that others might disagree, so at least I'm not dressing it up as battling for the higher cause of e-sports, or something
JulyZerg got hammered by MC and as far as I'm aware did not at any point indulge in insults, trying to say that he 'really' won the game or accuse MC of taking advantage of 'OP' mechanics.
These are the things Idra regularly falls back on when he loses. That's not a sign of character. Anyone who thinks that it is 'a good thing' for esports to have prominent players come across like immature school children needs to reconsider.
How is acting like kids going to get it taken seriously?
You want esports taken seriously, act like you, your game, and everything involving it, deserves and is inherently possesssing a degree of dignity and respect. Neither Cruncher nor Idra's behaviour is good for esports. It is good for a laugh though.
On March 29 2011 11:45 ReaperX wrote: [Cruncher]'s actually pretty professional with his interviews too.
Clearly you don't mean this interview. It is hardly professional to make every other response about how much you want to make your opponent 'rage' because you 'don't respect him.' That's not the behavior of a professional. That's the attitude of a troll, to induce as much rage as possible. He's no more professional than idra was in his pre-game interview. I'm all for the logic of 'return in kind' but let's call this what it is and not delude ourselves just because he managed to take a best of 3 off idra.
Yeah I agree.
IdrA isn't stupid, he rages just because of game balance. I mean when you have whole map under your control, excellent economy, maxed out 1.5 faster than toss and then loose because you just feel hopeless in late game of this match up. That's why he rages, and that isn't fine but it is understandable. So I don't know why cruncher is being a dick with all his bm, doesn't he understand why IdrA bms?
It's just like you play on ladder ZvP and someone kills your whole army with single vortex then you feel seriously dissapointed and you don't gg and leave the game. Now imagine protoss player says for me after the game: "why no gg noob?". That's just straight up bm and disrespect to other player.
Toss is supposed to roll 200 vs 200 head up, ball for ball. Check out unit costs. Check out what blizzard says about them.. more or less."strongest and expensive" Zerg is about the swarm and speed like July showed us dominating World league today. Another player IdrA, ironically, says is no good who is playing Zerg way it's meant to be played. And Nestea and FD before that.
What's funny is Toss is suited to IdrA's style rather than constant harrass/semi all ins required of Zerg. He should switch and stop trying to play zerg way he wants it to be because it will never be as strong as Terran or Toss 200/200.
On March 30 2011 06:14 Sc2ttyl wrote: You all who like cruncher are sadly pathetic. IdrA has so much more talent it is hard for me to believe that you actually think cruncher deserved to move on. Just because Cruncher can abuse things as protoss does not make him good, which is why IdrA deserves to rage. I dont think that you should have to say GG to someone you know you are better than, but just abuses the game. It is like when the game first came out and everyone 5 rax reaperd... are those players better than you? Take a look at IdrA and Artosis's videos about why 2-3 base protoss turtle is imbalanced. The only reason IdrA took game two was because of the map size and distance between expansions. That gave him plenty of room to drop. On shakuras there is very little room and proper splitting of an army and a few cannons easily holds drops. For real though, Chruncher L2P please before you talk bad about IdrA.
EDIT:
I do realize that the last game Cruncher deserved to win. That was not imba it was just sneaky play that IdrA didnt prepare for.
That type of anti-social, finger pointing way of thinking is holding idra back. He might see more success if he took responsibility for his own actions. There are weaknesses in his static style, ie early pushes, creative play, punishment of his overdroning, ect. If he doesn't make an attempt to become mature and adapt his style, then he will keep on being the same player.
Honestly, I don't understand how you can root for a person who displays such little class. His behavior is not acceptable in real society and shouldn't be acceptable on the internet either.
Cruncher has gained my respect. Not from beating idra because in my opinion that isn't amazing, but for beating all those players in the fxopen and showmatches. Check.prime, MKP, etc etc.
The difference between CrunCher's and IdrA's interviews was that one was post-game, the other was pre-game. CrunCher had absolutely none of this attitude pre-game, because he was afraid he would be a laughing-stock if he lost. IdrA just doesn't care, which makes me respect IdrA a hell of a lot more. It's a lot safer (and more cowardly) to be arrogant and insulting right after a win than before a match... I think CrunCher would have gotten a lot more respect had he been honest but humble in his post-game interview, like the Koreans are with IdrA.
CrunCher made a new fan. I laughed for at least 5 minutes after the happy face. Idra totally deserves it. I really liked the interview too, being honest it's always good.
On March 30 2011 09:06 growl wrote: The difference between CrunCher's and IdrA's interviews was that one was post-game, the other was pre-game. CrunCher had absolutely none of this attitude pre-game, because he was afraid he would be a laughing-stock if he lost. IdrA just doesn't care, which makes me respect IdrA a hell of a lot more. It's a lot safer (and more cowardly) to be arrogant and insulting right after a win than before a match... I think CrunCher would have gotten a lot more respect had he been honest but humble in his post-game interview, like the Koreans are with IdrA.
Your logic makes no sense. Cruncher give an humble pregame interview despite not liking Idra(he didn't know that idra is gonna bash him). Idra instead bashed him in his pregame interview calling him a walkover. Then Idra continue to bm him while they play. I mean comon how does Idra fans twist Idra's BM into bravery. This is getting hilarious. The thing is when you talk the talk, you better walk the walk. Idra talked the talked but got rolled.
cruncher has gained my respect after his honest interview - people like idra need to be called out.
It seriously boggles my mind when I look at the SC2 community and see that there are people who are fans of Idra. How can you support someone with absolutely no sportsmanship and no class? If you are good enough to call yourself a "professional" at whatever you are doing, doesn't it mean that you should act professionally and maturely?
If SC2 wants to become even bigger than it already is, then the players should reflect the professionalism that is representative of e-sports and SC2, just like players in other sports like basketball or football should act. It only takes one person like Idra for outsiders to think that SC2 players are a bunch of immature and arrogant gamer nerds, which is obviously not true.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
Wait how does calling someone walkover or say that you have no skill not make you rage? If I meet you on ladder and tell you that on ladder. Are you gonna be like "thx, I appreciate that".
So happy to see sum1 put Idra back on his place. Off course he's a good player and stuff but if he honestly thinks that every1 that doesn't play supermacro mode and attacks after the 20 minute mark is a no-skilled cheeser he has some issues. If you make 7 drones when a semi all-in is coming to ur base it's ur own fault. If you let a protoss go forge fast expand and even get a fast 3rd with barely any units its ur own fault.
BM is fun once in a while, but seeing BM all the time when he loses a game is just saaaad.
the truth is that idra we will be seeing for years to come, cruncher will be a FOTM, he will be "here and gone before you know it" Enjoy your moment cruncher
On March 30 2011 09:32 xbankx wrote:Your logic makes no sense. Cruncher give an humble pregame interview despite not liking Idra(he didn't know that idra is gonna bash him). Idra instead bashed him in his pregame interview calling him a walkover. Then Idra continue to bm him while they play. I mean comon how does Idra fans twist Idra's BM into bravery. This is getting hilarious. The thing is when you talk the talk, you better walk the walk. Idra talked the talked but got rolled.
I don't approve of IdrA's bm, and I never really have. I don't really care to be frank, but the reason I don't despise it is that he himself doesn't really give it much thought and that he seems to be doing it more to hype up matches than out of any real ill will or thought. While CrunCher is doing a similar thing, CrunCher's kicking IdrA when he's down (the ONE time that he actually managed to beat IdrA, I mean judging from their record on ladder and the Justin.tv tourny that doesn't seem to have happened too often) and I hate people that do that. If you're going to insult someone, you might as well BM straight to their face (where they can make you look foolish with a good rebuttal or a straight up win, kinda like the BM Combat-Ex does) or in a pre-match hype interview (because the community loves that, and it's not like it would embarrass the underdog, but rather charge them up. Anyone who takes pre-game talk seriously in any sport or game is an idiot). While these forms of BM are really stupid, they're not really despicable in the same way as I found this. I understand that CrunCher wanted to use his spotlight in the interview to get back at IdrA, but imo it's enough to acknowledge that the other guy was an ass and state that you're the better person and the better player, but anything more makes you look like the biggest jackass ever. I guess in some ways, it's similar to IdrA BM in that he's hyping up the next match between the two, but if he's even half serious he comes off a lot worse than IdrA in my book, just cause of where and when he's saying shit.
On March 30 2011 09:35 white_horse wrote: cruncher has gained my respect after his honest interview - people like idra need to be called out.
It seriously boggles my mind when I look at the SC2 community and see that there are people who are fans of Idra. How can you support someone with absolutely no sportsmanship and no class? If you are good enough to call yourself a "professional" at whatever you are doing, doesn't it mean that you should act professionally and maturely?
If SC2 wants to become even bigger than it already is, then the players should reflect the professionalism that is representative of e-sports and SC2, just like players in other sports like basketball or football should act. It only takes one person like Idra for outsiders to think that SC2 players are a bunch of immature and arrogant gamer nerds, which is obviously not true.
Probably because he says a lot of the things nobody will say, and a lot of people agree with it?
A lot of zerg players hate the balance situation right now, and when Protoss players or whoever tell them to shut up and l2p it's fucking annoying. But when a pro player says the same thing, it's a lot harder to tell him to l2p.
On March 30 2011 09:32 xbankx wrote:Your logic makes no sense. Cruncher give an humble pregame interview despite not liking Idra(he didn't know that idra is gonna bash him). Idra instead bashed him in his pregame interview calling him a walkover. Then Idra continue to bm him while they play. I mean comon how does Idra fans twist Idra's BM into bravery. This is getting hilarious. The thing is when you talk the talk, you better walk the walk. Idra talked the talked but got rolled.
I don't approve of IdrA's bm, and I never really have. I don't really care to be frank, but the reason I don't despise it is that he himself doesn't really give it much thought and that he seems to be doing it more to hype up matches than out of any real ill will or thought. While CrunCher is doing a similar thing, CrunCher's kicking IdrA when he's down (the ONE time that he actually managed to beat IdrA, I mean judging from their record on ladder and the Justin.tv tourny that doesn't seem to have happened too often) and I hate people that do that. If you're going to insult someone, you might as well BM straight to their face (where they can make you look foolish with a good rebuttal or a straight up win, kinda like the BM Combat-Ex does) or in a pre-match hype interview (because the community loves that, and it's not like it would embarrass the underdog, but rather charge them up. Anyone who takes pre-game talk seriously in any sport or game is an idiot). While these forms of BM are really stupid, they're not really despicable in the same way as I found this. I understand that CrunCher wanted to use his spotlight in the interview to get back at IdrA, but imo it's enough to acknowledge that the other guy was an ass and state that you're the better person and the better player, but anything more makes you look like the biggest jackass ever. I guess in some ways, it's similar to IdrA BM in that he's hyping up the next match between the two, but if he's even half serious he comes off a lot worse than IdrA in my book, just cause of where and when he's saying shit.
Why does Cruncher need to give respect to Idra when Idra clearly showed no respect to him. If someone just spit on your face and called you trash/whore and then tripped and fell down. Are you gonna hold out your hand and help him up? Look there is a difference between "friendly" BM in pregame and just straight up insulting the other player. I have no problem with MC's type of BM because he says stuff like "lol my next round opponent should complain to admin because he has to face me next." He ever insult the other player directly. But calling player a cheeser and a walkover is not a "friendly" hype BM. It is just insulting whether it is pregame or postgame. The main problem I have with Idra fans that they try to somehow justify Idra's actions by saying he is being truthful and outspoken and just emotional. While when others do it back to him, it is some atrocity because he is not as known as Idra. No matter how much you are known or not known, inside a starcraft game the two will just be players and the better player will win. No one ever said what Cruncher said is not BM. Most Cruncher fans just felt Idra got what is coming to him. While Idra fans is trying to spin, Idra's BM into bravery and honesty. It is just laughible with the double standard. I always follow the saying "Do to others as you would like them to do to you." If idra hAS been BMing people since scbw, he will one day get what was coming to him. When he BMs someone pregame and loses, and they BM back and make Idra look like an idiot.
On March 30 2011 09:32 xbankx wrote:Your logic makes no sense. Cruncher give an humble pregame interview despite not liking Idra(he didn't know that idra is gonna bash him). Idra instead bashed him in his pregame interview calling him a walkover. Then Idra continue to bm him while they play. I mean comon how does Idra fans twist Idra's BM into bravery. This is getting hilarious. The thing is when you talk the talk, you better walk the walk. Idra talked the talked but got rolled.
I don't approve of IdrA's bm, and I never really have. I don't really care to be frank, but the reason I don't despise it is that he himself doesn't really give it much thought and that he seems to be doing it more to hype up matches than out of any real ill will or thought. While CrunCher is doing a similar thing, CrunCher's kicking IdrA when he's down (the ONE time that he actually managed to beat IdrA, I mean judging from their record on ladder and the Justin.tv tourny that doesn't seem to have happened too often) and I hate people that do that. If you're going to insult someone, you might as well BM straight to their face (where they can make you look foolish with a good rebuttal or a straight up win, kinda like the BM Combat-Ex does) or in a pre-match hype interview (because the community loves that, and it's not like it would embarrass the underdog, but rather charge them up. Anyone who takes pre-game talk seriously in any sport or game is an idiot). While these forms of BM are really stupid, they're not really despicable in the same way as I found this. I understand that CrunCher wanted to use his spotlight in the interview to get back at IdrA, but imo it's enough to acknowledge that the other guy was an ass and state that you're the better person and the better player, but anything more makes you look like the biggest jackass ever. I guess in some ways, it's similar to IdrA BM in that he's hyping up the next match between the two, but if he's even half serious he comes off a lot worse than IdrA in my book, just cause of where and when he's saying shit.
Why does Cruncher need to give respect to Idra when Idra clearly showed no respect to him. If someone just spit on your face and called you trash/whore and then tripped and fell down. Are you gonna hold out your hand and help him up? Look there is a difference between "friendly" BM in pregame and just straight up insulting the other player. I have no problem with MC's type of BM because he says stuff like "lol my next round opponent should complain to admin because he has to face me next." He ever insult the other player directly. But calling player a cheeser and a walkover is not a "friendly" hype BM. It is just insulting whether it is pregame or postgame. The main problem I have with Idra fans that they try to somehow justify Idra's actions by saying he is being truthful and outspoken and just emotional. While when others do it back to him, it is some atrocity because he is not as known as Idra. No matter how much you are known or not known, inside a starcraft game the two will just be players and the better player will win. No one ever said what Cruncher said is not BM. Most Cruncher fans just felt Idra got what is coming to him. While Idra fans is trying to spin, Idra's BM into bravery and honesty. It is just laughible with the double standard. I always follow the saying "Do to others as you would like them to do to you." If idra hAS been BMing people since scbw, he will one day get what was coming to him. When he BMs someone pregame and loses, and they BM back and make Idra look like an idiot.
This pretty much sums it all up... There is no need to make a thread 100 pages long. It's just simple facts...
On March 30 2011 10:25 xbankx wrote: Why does Cruncher need to give respect to Idra when Idra clearly showed no respect to him. If someone just spit on your face and called you trash/whore and then tripped and fell down. Are you gonna hold out your hand and help him up? Look there is a difference between "friendly" BM in pregame and just straight up insulting the other player. I have no problem with MC's type of BM because he says stuff like "lol my next round opponent should complain to admin because he has to face me next." He ever insult the other player directly. But calling player a cheeser and a walkover is not a "friendly" hype BM. It is just insulting whether it is pregame or postgame. The main problem I have with Idra fans that they try to somehow justify Idra's actions by saying he is being truthful and outspoken and just emotional. While when others do it back to him, it is some atrocity because he is not as known as Idra. No matter how much you are known or not known, inside a starcraft game the two will just be players and the better player will win. No one ever said what Cruncher said is not BM. Most Cruncher fans just felt Idra got what is coming to him. While Idra fans is trying to spin, Idra's BM into bravery and honesty. It is just laughible with the double standard. I always follow the saying "Do to others as you would like them to do to you." If idra hAS been BMing people since scbw, he will one day get what was coming to him. When he BMs someone pregame and loses, and they BM back and make Idra look like an idiot.
I might help them up, but I definitely wouldn't call them trash right then. Maybe I would walk away somewhat amused. But I think that flaming when someone is in a (relatively speaking) helpless position is disgusting. I'm pretty sure I made that clear. If you don't agree, that's just a difference between us.
And I'm pretty sure you want to rewrite your saying. Perhaps you want to write "Do unto others as they would do to you"? Because otherwise it completely contradicts your entire post, which is more of an "eye for an eye" justice-based mentality than a "do unto others what you would like done to you" peaceful mentality, which I am advocating. But thanks for the support, if that's what you meant. Not sure what the rest of the post is about then.
Also please don't generalize my opinions on this incident based on my personal experiences to the entire population of IdrA supporters. It's really silly...
On March 30 2011 10:25 xbankx wrote: Why does Cruncher need to give respect to Idra when Idra clearly showed no respect to him. If someone just spit on your face and called you trash/whore and then tripped and fell down. Are you gonna hold out your hand and help him up? Look there is a difference between "friendly" BM in pregame and just straight up insulting the other player. I have no problem with MC's type of BM because he says stuff like "lol my next round opponent should complain to admin because he has to face me next." He ever insult the other player directly. But calling player a cheeser and a walkover is not a "friendly" hype BM. It is just insulting whether it is pregame or postgame. The main problem I have with Idra fans that they try to somehow justify Idra's actions by saying he is being truthful and outspoken and just emotional. While when others do it back to him, it is some atrocity because he is not as known as Idra. No matter how much you are known or not known, inside a starcraft game the two will just be players and the better player will win. No one ever said what Cruncher said is not BM. Most Cruncher fans just felt Idra got what is coming to him. While Idra fans is trying to spin, Idra's BM into bravery and honesty. It is just laughible with the double standard. I always follow the saying "Do to others as you would like them to do to you." If idra hAS been BMing people since scbw, he will one day get what was coming to him. When he BMs someone pregame and loses, and they BM back and make Idra look like an idiot.
I might help them up, but I definitely wouldn't call them trash right then. Maybe I would walk away somewhat amused. But I think that flaming when someone is in a (relatively speaking) helpless position is disgusting. I'm pretty sure I made that clear. If you don't agree, that's just a difference between us.
And I'm pretty sure you want to rewrite your saying. Perhaps you want to write "Do unto others as they would do to you"? Because otherwise it completely contradicts your entire post, which is more of an "eye for an eye" justice-based mentality than a "do unto others what you would like done to you" peaceful mentality, which I am advocating. But thanks for the support, if that's what you meant. Not sure what the rest of the post is about then.
Also please don't generalize my opinions on this incident based on my personal experiences to the entire population of IdrA supporters. It's really silly...
No I merely said i followed that. I never said cruncher followed that. But Idra definitely don't follow that so "I" don't feel bad when Cruncher BMed Idra. Since Idra deserved it.
On March 29 2011 12:19 justdweezil wrote: Man, Cruncher just seems like a dick now, too. Very unfortunate. Even more unfortunate when Protoss don't appreciate that they still have a fair advantage in the match-up, given the metagame right now.
People blow Idra's "rage" way out of proportion... venting a little frustration or speaking your mind is not a very big deal, and Crunchers lolitrollu attitude is painful to read. He really seems like a complete chode more so now than even before. Gloating his wins of a WC3 replay site with screenshots from the lobby as members of another community site shit on "Idra fanboys" as he caters to his own... the whole thing is pathetic..
I agree, speaking from total opinion, Idra probably doesn't get MAD like people all imagine him to. Just because he speaks his mind while getting frustrated over the current meta-game and puts out skill-bashing BM to people he loses to, doesn't mean he gets all "kid gets WoW account closed" angry. Crunchers "i bet he's getting so mad right now look at my ego!!!! lolololo" attitude is painful. Idra is probably used to losing (unlike many people) and I'm sure he doesn't RAGE over losing to a fairly skilled player like Cruncher.
On the other hand, compared to Idras, Crunchers BM is far worse. Whereas Idra's rage and BM is only based on skill and on the current meta-game, Cruncher opts to BM on personal lifestyle, income, etc. No respect.
I think that both sides in this Idra/Cruncher thing need to give each other more respect. Both players are amazing, and both players were unprofessional here. Granted Idra has experience, but that doesn't mean that he can get away with what he says. Cruncher definitely had a reason to BM in reply but he didn't have to. Not everyone can be as classy as Mondragon.
In terms of looking at the games, you can't really say that either one played too poorly, they won games with completely different styles and none of the wins says anything about game balance. In game one Idra was ahead in macro but Cruncher had a huge tech advantage for way longer. Instead of macro cheesing he tech cheesed and was on only one gateway for a long time giving Idra a giant timing where he can walk up and crush him in exchange for a ridiculously potent late game deathball. He played to counter Idra's style and Idra loses. Game two Idra took advantage of that giant timing window to let him macro things up and get drops ready to abuse the deathball's lack of mobility. Game three Cruncher went for an earlish attack taking advantage of his micro. Idra didn't take that into account and made his roaches and drones as if his opponent couldn't micro instead of roaches and some zerglings. Had those roaches not been force fielded so well the game would probably have been Idra's win from there.
Idra started the BM war and got completely mind gamed. Cruncher practiced and did his research and deserved his win, but he didn't have to be as BM as he was in his interview. They're both good players and as fans you should be happy for your favorites win, but respect the other side too for their play. You may not like how they act but don't disrespect either of their very potent skills.
i really don't see why a is SUCH a bif BM/trollin to some people... I do it on games when opponents are being disrespectful to me... I f i would have been on Cruncher's position i would have :D 'ed Idra... Just because he deserved that... Don't believe me? http://www.wcreplays.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2689991&postcount=152 Then, in his interview, Cruncher was just being honest, maybe a little bit too big mouthed, but still, anyone who gets insulted in that way (remember that this game was gonna be a "walkover" for Idra) has at least the legitimate right to laugh, to be happy in a never unrespectfull way -i think Cruncher has been almost as mannered as possible given the facts-. Sorry Idra, but you lost in a legal way. GJ Cruncher, hope you go back to be a quiet yet desirefull guy.
there's a reason why idra had to leave korea b/c of having no practice partners
even the korean players don't like him, and that's actually something thats actually hard to do. you know something is wrong when you can't get along with korean pro gamers
did you see the group shot of gsl koreans and world team, idra would be pouting 5 feet away from everyone else while the rest of the group is smiling and having a good time
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
Wait how does calling someone walkover or say that you have no skill not make you rage? If I meet you on ladder and tell you that on ladder. Are you gonna be like "thx, I appreciate that".
I'd roll over you and laugh @ you afterwards, but that would be about it, I wouldn't talk about laughing about you all the time in an interview. If you feel insulted because someone else thinks they're far better than you than you have issues. There's always gonna be someone who will be far superior to anything you do, always. If you can't handle the truth like IdrA stated you better man up.
On March 30 2011 15:27 akalarry wrote: there's a reason why idra had to leave korea b/c of having no practice partners
even the korean players don't like him, and that's actually something thats actually hard to do. you know something is wrong when you can't get along with korean pro gamers
did you see the group shot of gsl koreans and world team, idra would be pouting 5 feet away from everyone else while the rest of the group is smiling and having a good time
He actually had plenty of practice partners, iirc he even practiced with genius. It's just oGs who dislike IdrA.
On March 30 2011 11:13 growl wrote: Maybe I would walk away somewhat amused.
This is more or less what Cruncher did with the smiley face.
Also I really like the honesty in Cruncher's statements. I mean COME ON, it was 100% obvious that he had a huge banana-grin for probably several hours. What is he supposed to say "I'm happy with this win, I'm looking forward to my Ro16 matches, thx for interviewing me"? Everybody loves defeating bad-mannered people, show me ONE player who doesn't get warm and fuzzy inside when he stomps somebody who has talked down to him before the match.
To cut the long story short: any other statements of Cruncher wouldn't have been a sign of modesty, they would've been straight up lies. IdrA definitely got this interview coming, there's no reason why Cruncher shouldn't be allowed to talk about how he really felt.
On March 30 2011 03:46 purpose wrote: So to sum it up. If Idra lose he is not playing his best and so the opponent is just lucky. And when Idra is bm and troll people before they even played or deserved it, he is good for the interest.
But when a guy like Cruncher just respond to a cocky and bm attitude before the game was even played, he is bm and childish etc etc etc.
Yea that makes sens.
Tbh playing on top of your game is kinda what tourneys is all about. If you cant brin gout your A game when needed you are not the best simple as that. You cant go around claiming that a player is the best but that he just is not on top when it matters.
No, the difference is, IdrA doesn't bm you to make you rage or feel bad, he's just venting his anger without thinking about that. Cruncher is just bming for the sake of making others rage. While I did think the smiley @ the end of that game was great, his interview is just bragging about how he thinks he made idra rage and it's just pathetic overall, it's nothing to be proud of.
Wait how does calling someone walkover or say that you have no skill not make you rage? If I meet you on ladder and tell you that on ladder. Are you gonna be like "thx, I appreciate that".
I'd roll over you and laugh @ you afterwards, but that would be about it, I wouldn't talk about laughing about you all the time in an interview. If you feel insulted because someone else thinks they're far better than you than you have issues. There's always gonna be someone who will be far superior to anything you do, always. If you can't handle the truth like IdrA stated you better man up.
On March 30 2011 15:27 akalarry wrote: there's a reason why idra had to leave korea b/c of having no practice partners
even the korean players don't like him, and that's actually something thats actually hard to do. you know something is wrong when you can't get along with korean pro gamers
did you see the group shot of gsl koreans and world team, idra would be pouting 5 feet away from everyone else while the rest of the group is smiling and having a good time
He actually had plenty of practice partners, iirc he even practiced with genius. It's just oGs who dislike IdrA.
Always fun when someoneplays the heel, calls someone out, gets beat then goes all "no gg". Fair play to Cruncher there, reminds me of the Zenio slap and the "Idra should stop being a dick" in the follow up interview. Fucking stupid how Idra fans are getting all riled up about someone talking shit to THE GUY WHO IS FAMOUS FOR BEING A DICK TO EVERYONE (and was a class 1 dick in and before the series).
No more Idra fanboys in TSL3 can only a good thing though right?
While I agree Idra is mechanically the better player and was in the series his decision making was off par that day. And since SC2 is about beating the other guy into the ground and not about who can make the most workers (although it greatly helps the latter), Cruncher took the series.
Would've been a Cruncher fan if he'd been the bigger man and completely ignored the IdrA-shenanigans. His victory was an open invitation to stoop down to that level and it looks like he grabbed that opportunity with both hands. Shame
On March 30 2011 13:54 Shana wrote: Will you ever respect someone that said 'lol I'll win this walk-over game ezpz' on pre-game interview and constantly trash-talking on the lobby?
How can you expecting Cruncher to be modest after all of that blows my mind.
This, Cruncher doesn't have the class of Mondragon but how the fuck can you call him bm, it was IdrA that treated Cruncher like shit in the first place. What goes around, comes around.
On March 30 2011 13:54 Shana wrote: Will you ever respect someone that said 'lol I'll win this walk-over game ezpz' on pre-game interview and constantly trash-talking on the lobby?
How can you expecting Cruncher to be modest after all of that blows my mind.
This, Cruncher doesn't have the class of Mondragon but how the fuck can you call him bm, it was IdrA that treated Cruncher like shit in the first place. What goes around, comes around.
This again haha. Seriously I thought he responded completely appropriately to IdrA. In fact, all the IdrA fans out there who love his stupid BM and raging, why would you not love someone like Cruncher who brings out even more of that in IdrA
Anyway, loved Kas/Mondragon/Nada's interviews, although they weren't as contronversial, and I hope Dissy will show us some more of that amazing zvp vs cruncher :D
Was waiting so long for these interviews to show up!
I can't believe anyone would have anything bad to say about what Cruncher is saying. I know this has been said before, but it's pretty cut and dry.
Player A talks all kinds of smack and is super rude, Player B says nothing. Player B stomps Player A. Player B now takes his opportunity to express his opinion once he's earned the right.
And that's all there is to it. Idra does it to himself. Cruncher is right, Idra is arrogant and he has been overrated by his die hard fans. When it's all said and done, your legacy will be your accomplishments, and Idra is ruining his by not taking the game seriously.
Yeah Crucher really stooped down to all of the rudeness and trash talking. Not very nice to try to get somebody to rage, but I guess it's idra's fault for giving people reason to hate him. Sounded arrogant as he made idra out to be.
Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Idra talks a lot of shit. He's not only an asshole to players he's better than (which is unacceptable and unprofessional), he's an asshole to players who can beat him (which is a great way to end up looking like an idiot).
When I first started following SC2, I thought Idra was a BA. He talked shit, played hard, and didn't give a fuck what people thought. Then I realized... Idra talked shit, played the same way over and over and railed at others for doing anything else, and pretended he didn't give a fuck what anybody thought so he would look like a bad ass.
Cry me a river Idra. Zerg sucks, this sucks, that sucks, that player sucks, that series sucked, Protoss sucks. Zerg is so brokenly bad that tons of other Zergs are placing well and tearing shit up (July, anyone?). You know what sucks? Calling your Round 1 opponent of a major tournament a walkover and then getting beat by a guy who gives you a smiley face at the end of Game 3 as he rapes you.
Fuck off Idra + his fans. If you talk a lot of shit, you better come ready to back it up. You better not come in, lose, and go back to whining about how broken Zerg is and how good you really are.
Prove it or drop off the scene, the act is getting old.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
On March 31 2011 11:56 xbankx wrote: He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Not true. I remember hearing IdrA say (I believe on SOTG, just before Assembly finals?) that he thought Morrow had very strong ZvT and ZvP but lacked understanding of ZvZ, and therefore would lose to Ret. He may or may not be right about the ZvZ part, but I'm pretty sure IdrA and almost anyone who has been following the game lately would agree that Morrow is incredibly good.
Just to get a view on the loser's end.. How about interviews for losing players? That would be interesting IMO considering what would idra have to say about the forcefields :D
On March 31 2011 11:56 xbankx wrote: He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Not true. I remember hearing IdrA say (I believe on SOTG, just before Assembly finals?) that he thought Morrow had very strong ZvT and ZvP but lacked understanding of ZvZ, and therefore would lose to Ret. He may or may not be right about the ZvZ part, but I'm pretty sure IdrA and almost anyone who has been following the game lately would agree that Morrow is incredibly good.
that was incontrol I think Idra always bashes on morrow
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Nada: "My Siege Mode upgrade was late so my expeditionary force had to just come back. I was really surprised by the Battlecruisers, and I felt Dario was really that great of a player as I had expected"
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
I clearly said what cruncher said is BM. My first post is if you say what Idra said is merely "telling the truth", we can technically say the same about what cruncher said.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
I clearly said what cruncher said is BM. My first post is if you say what Idra said is merely "telling the truth", we can technically say the same about what cruncher said.
Maybe you should dig deep in the quotes and find what you bolded.
EDIT: Shit that was someone else.
In any case, IdrA attacked Cruncher's play while Cruncher attacked IdrA himself. I do see a big difference between the two, but maybe other people don't care.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
I clearly said what cruncher said is BM. My first post is if you say what Idra said is merely "telling the truth", we can technically say the same about what cruncher said.
Maybe you should dig deep in the quotes and find what you bolded.
EDIT: Shit that was someone else.
In any case, IdrA attacked Cruncher's play while Cruncher attacked IdrA himself. I do see a big difference between the two, but maybe other people don't care.
I don't get you. Cruncher did not even insult that much idra directly(unless I assume you count calling someone arrogant is super super BM but compared to what Idra said to him I don' even think it is that bad). He merely said Idra was a bad/overrated player which is no different than calling someone a walkover. Walkover=bad player. As for the make Idra rage part through cheese, that is just standard bad manner on bnet. Cheesing someone does not mean he is attacking idra even if he has the intend to make Idra rage. I get cheesed. I raged but it doesn't mean he is attacking me personally even if it is his intent to get me to rage.
The only attack of character is probably when he called Idra arrogant and I don't even think it is that bad considering what Idra said to him during game. Arrogant is not a "OMFG how dare he said that" phrase.
Sportsmanship is really revealing in terms of character and if you look at how the players acted during the actual game, then I think Cruncher was much more professional. As far as I know, Cruncher did have the common courtesy to gl/gg, even during game 2, whereas Idra didn't. As someone who loves sports in general, how you conduct yourself during the game is more important to me than anything else. Athletes are pissed off in post-game interviews all the time.
Sure, Cruncher was BM in the post game interview, but Idra was BM several times before that for no apparent reason. All that Cruncher said before the match was that he was prepared and confident. Why did Idra make those SoTG comments anyway? Or call Cruncher a walk-over before the match? At least Cruncher's reaction was understandable, he was disrespected.
And by the way, most of what Cruncher said was fairly reasonable. If Idra is going to call him a walkover and then lose in a Bo3 at a major tournament, then I have no problem with Cruncher saying he's overrated.
Edit: I also don't understand people giving Idra benefit of the doubt because he is the more accomplished player. All that means is Idra has had the better career, not that he somehow deserved to win and therefore he can say whatever he wants. I had never seen a Cruncher game before this either, but he did win a TSL Qualifier and therefore deserved to be there as much as anyone else. We don't even know if Idra would have qualed if he had to.
Okay, a lot of you don't understand why Cruncher is getting a lot of hate. You don't beat your opponent and then in your post-game interview trash talk your opponent (basically getting a free-roll on your trash talking / cheap-shoting your opponent) just as you should always gg after game no matter how badly you got raped.
Cruncher was the higher of the two before and during the match (humble pre-game interview, gg's after g2 loss, etc.) but this coming out party post-game interview is basically him stooping down to Idra's level.
I am not a fan of Idra's BM, attitude, unprofessionalism or antics. But let me draw an example from a real sport where BM and trash talking regularly happens.
In playoff NHL hockey, pre-game trash-talking and in game trash-talking basically the norm. Team A during warm up will go over to Team B's side and say shit like 'you're gf is hot', 'lolol, you remember when I smashed your face in the last time we fought?', 'you guys probably only here because you're riding your goalies nuts, trololol' you do it to psyche your opponent out, it's part of the game and I think that is exactly what Idra was trying to accomplish pre-game and during game.
Yes, it's cocky. Yes, it's dirty. But it is a part of the game.
Idra was even trash talking in between games. I don't know the formal rules on that but I guess in SC2 etiquette that is frowned upon. So Idra is definitely going pretty low here.
Even after a hockey playoff series, no matter what transpired, no matter what trash talk was dished out players line up and shake hands - for respect of the opponent and RESPECT OF THE GAME.
Idra should have GGed out after losing the games. I think that's what it's equivalent to in real sport, to put it into perspective. Idra disrespected Cruncher by rage quitting when he lost and didn't gg out. Simple as that.
However, after beating your opponent (no matter how much trash-talking he did to psyche you out), you SHOULD NOT in post-game interview trash-talk, 'try to induce rage' and try to clown your opponent further after he lost. It's the same as not gg-ing out and not giving a hand-shake.
There are sore losers and there are sore winners. I feel like both players were quite disappointing in their attitudes and professionalism. You don't challenge someone, lose, and then don't give any respect to your opponent. At the same time, you don't win and take a chance to cheap-shot and run salt on already open wounds.
On March 29 2011 14:25 tangwhat wrote: IdrA's bm is different because he disrespects people like Silver/CrunCher(random nobodies who only achieve success based on how strong their race was at the time), he disrespects the way those guys play because it's abusive and comparatively easier to do than the way talented people play(read: Tyler).
When Morrow beat Idra at the IEM finals, Idra cried abuse. He said that if Morrow played zerg he wouldn't get past gold league. Idra's fans ate it up. They flamed Morrow on the forums and trolled his fanclub thread, saying he would be terrible as zerg or that he was only good because he abused reapers. Morrow is now one of the best zergs in the world and the scorn of Idra's disciples is mostly forgotten.
Before Morrow... well you mentioned Tyler. I'm not sure if you were actually giving Tyler as an example of someone who deserves respect, but in the past TSL, in fact, Idra said Tyler was a terrible player and that he would beat him 4-0. Idra lost 1-4.
Memories are short and Idra fans now have a new person to insist is bad and just wins due to imba/cheese. Enjoy all the hater attention, Cruncher. You have nothing to prove given all the big names you've beaten lately, anyone who says you're bad or a "random nobody" is too lazy to look at your actual results or is just completely braindead. 2-0 vs Kiwikaki, 3-0 vs Fenix, 4-1 vs PainUser, 4-1 vs Sjow, 4-1 vs LzGamer, 4-0 vs StrifeCro, 2-0 vs oGsInca, 2-0 vs CheckPrime, 2-0 vs MarineKingPrime...
CrunCher's disrespect reeks of being a petulant child towards someone who has earned/proved his worth as a player over a long period of time. There's a subtle difference. I'm sorry that IdrA makes you so angry ploy, but some of us don't let our (probably rational) dislikes of people blind us to the flaws of others. I never said IdrA's BM is acceptable in any way, it's also rude and unacceptable but CrunCher really went above and beyond for being a massive douchebag.
I don't know about you, but for me there's nothing more satisfying in SC2 than getting bmed for no reason, winning and then rubbing it in. If that's childish then take me to Neverland, Peter Pan. And yeah me Pete are going to bm Captain Hook after we kick his ass and make him rage all night.
I don't even dislike Idra that much, but sheesh, some of his fans are just the worst...
Here Idra had already beaten Tyler once by 3-1, and then Tyler had come back later in the same tournament (after this interview) to beat Idra 3-2. Notice, though, that Idra was still saying that Tyler is a skilled player, and in this thread ( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109625¤tpage=All ) Tyler says that he is Idra's friend. In other words, despite their rivalry there is still respect between them.
Compare that to the walkover comment Idra made about Cruncher. There is a serious lack of respect there. Did Cruncher go over the line? Probably. But it certainly is more understandable when your opponent just gives you no respect. Here is the real issue. In the interview before the TSL game with Tyler, I do not mind Idra as much since, even though he does basically the same thing, it comes off as confidence rather than just BM. In the interview before Cruncher, here are Idra's exact words: Q: Your first round opponent is a relatively unknown player - Cruncher. What are your thoughts about him? A: I'm approaching the match as if it were a walkover.
Q: Are you confident you can beat him? Do you expect him to do any risky strategies against you? A: Yes, he's going to 4 gate all-in both games unless he decides to be clever and make voidrays or DTs.
Not only is this a lack of basic respect, but it also does not represent good game sense. It is overconfident. There is a huge difference between thinking/know you are going to win, and underestimating your opponent. It seems from the interview that he underestimated his opponent. To make this easier, I will give an example of an answer that remains confident and in Idra style, but that seems not as stupid: Q: What are your thoughts about him? A: Since I am not too familiar with him it would not be good to underestimate him. That said I will crush him 2-0 no problem.
Do you see the difference? Saying you are going to crush someone is still in Idra's style, but the utter lack of respect of the former and the underestimation in "approaching the match as if it were a walkover" is not only bad form, but just plain stupid in any competition. Anyone who has competed for anything, or even watched a sports movie at all in their lives once will know that underestimating your opponent is the worst thing you can do.
The 4-1 win by Tyler over Idra that Sky Net mentioned by the way, was a special showmatch after Tyler had won TSL 2. Here is the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=165609¤tpage=All Comparing it to this thread with Cruncher all I can think of is: The more things change, the more they stay the same.
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
I clearly said what cruncher said is BM. My first post is if you say what Idra said is merely "telling the truth", we can technically say the same about what cruncher said.
Maybe you should dig deep in the quotes and find what you bolded.
EDIT: Shit that was someone else.
In any case, IdrA attacked Cruncher's play while Cruncher attacked IdrA himself. I do see a big difference between the two, but maybe other people don't care.
I don't get you. Cruncher did not even insult that much idra directly(unless I assume you count calling someone arrogant is super super BM but compared to what Idra said to him I don' even think it is that bad). He merely said Idra was a bad/overrated player which is no different than calling someone a walkover. Walkover=bad player. As for the make Idra rage part through cheese, that is just standard bad manner on bnet. Cheesing someone does not mean he is attacking idra even if he has the intend to make Idra rage. I get cheesed. I raged but it doesn't mean he is attacking me personally even if it is his intent to get me to rage.
The only attack of character is probably when he called Idra arrogant and I don't even think it is that bad considering what Idra said to him during game. Arrogant is not a "OMFG how dare he said that" phrase.
Calling someone a walkover = a comment on their skill Calling someone arrogant = a comment on their personality
The difference in my mind isn't the severity of the insult but instead what you're insulting.
Good for Cruncher talking back and standing up for himself.... but calling idra "overrated" and saying he's not that good unless he practices all day (what players should be doing) is just stupid, and Cruncher look retarded for saying it.
On April 02 2011 07:27 m0rg3n wrote: Someone who won a game by clicking in circles should take great care calling other people overrated imho
calling someone a walkover right before doing so many wrong decisions ingame (beginner mistakes), is not much better, or? Cruncher should have said "I feel fine, nothing special. It was just a walkover" ^^
On March 31 2011 07:21 MonsieurGrimm wrote: Meh, say what you want about IdrA, I'm just glad he says what he thinks, there's sure as hell enough fake people everywhere these days. Cruncher should really just get a tougher skin, just because someone said something honest about you doesn't mean beating him = winning every GSL forever or something, calm down about yourself.
Mondragon is a baller.
We can say the same about Cruncher. He says what he thinks and he is just being honest. Why should Cruncher get tougher skin when Idra doesn't. Typical Idra fan, somehow justifying Idra's action as honest/speaking his mind and others as BM when they are doing the same thing. Get a hold of reality please. Both are BM if you don't want to get BMed then don't BM in the first place. Cruncher in his interview never said how good he is so Im not sure where you are getting on about how he should calm himself down. All he said is Idra is terrible and you know what? Recent results speak for itself. While other zergs are taking down tournies left and right, Idra is QQing and not doing anything. He has been saying Morrow is terrible and worst zerg in the world for ages. Guess what? Morrow made it past round of 32 and also came in second to Ret at Assembly.
Nope, IdrA thinks MorroW is one of the better foreign zergs. And anyways, all IdrA said is that he thought the match would be a walkover - never said a thing about Cruncher himself except that he thought he could beat Cruncher easily. Apparently that's BM, I don't think so - maybe it's a little cocky but Cruncher really shouldn't get offended by that, he was the underdog and he knew it. Then Cruncher wins and is arrogant and immature as shit in his interview, just because he caused an upset?
Since you like comparing the "BM" of the two players, here's what went down:
IdrA: I think that beating Cruncher will be easy. Later: What Cruncher did in game 1 took no skill. What I did in game 2 did. You're not a very good player.
Cruncher: LAWL I love making IdrA "rage". IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player. It's so funny when he "rages" that I sacrifice the time I could spend getting better at the game just to piss him off. I have no respect for him. I love pissing IdrA off. IdrA's fans only like him because of the BM, not because of his play.
Judge for yourself, I suppose.
Here's what actually went down: IdrA directly insulted Cruncher on three separate occasions. Cruncher never insulted IdrA. Inciting rage in an opponent that has emotional problems is not an insult. is not an insult. "I knew he would rage because he lost" is not an insult.
IdrA is overrated and arrogant and nowhere near being a good player.
Seems just as bad as anything IdrA said.
And even if he didn't insult IdrA, he's acting like a child.
How can you say calling someone a walkover is not the same as calling them bad? I don't get your logic.
Idra to Cruncher: Walkover, can only win by 4 warpgate->bad player=insult Cruncher to Idra: overrated player, terrible player when he isn't practicing
as a professional gamer, the worst insult is being called a walkover. I mean if Idra said something like "I think Im better than him, so I can win" Sure that is not insulting their skill level or even if he did it in a mannered way by saying "cruncher's mechanics is not at my level", but calling someone a walkover+win only be cheesing is.
The thing is no matter how much of an idra fan boy you are, I assume your reality still stays intact enough to realize what Idra said pregame is BM. Im not saying what Cruncher said postgame isn't BM because obviously it is. But I just feel Idra deserve every bit of it
Maybe he said he would be a walkover because Cruncher has no real notable wins in his past and was a relative unknown? I never said calling someone a walkover was not the same as calling them bad, I said they were equivalent - you said that Cruncher never insulted IdrA which is completely false.
In any case, Cruncher did win using Void Rays and he did win with a 6gate Allin, what IdrA said was relatively accurate.
I don't know why you keep calling me an IdrA fanboy either - it's not like I'm saying LAWL cruncher so bad idra rape him protoss op!!!1, I'm just saying that all the hate IdrA's gettting is uncalled for - all he did was tell the truth.
I clearly said what cruncher said is BM. My first post is if you say what Idra said is merely "telling the truth", we can technically say the same about what cruncher said.
Maybe you should dig deep in the quotes and find what you bolded.
EDIT: Shit that was someone else.
In any case, IdrA attacked Cruncher's play while Cruncher attacked IdrA himself. I do see a big difference between the two, but maybe other people don't care.
I don't get you. Cruncher did not even insult that much idra directly(unless I assume you count calling someone arrogant is super super BM but compared to what Idra said to him I don' even think it is that bad). He merely said Idra was a bad/overrated player which is no different than calling someone a walkover. Walkover=bad player. As for the make Idra rage part through cheese, that is just standard bad manner on bnet. Cheesing someone does not mean he is attacking idra even if he has the intend to make Idra rage. I get cheesed. I raged but it doesn't mean he is attacking me personally even if it is his intent to get me to rage.
The only attack of character is probably when he called Idra arrogant and I don't even think it is that bad considering what Idra said to him during game. Arrogant is not a "OMFG how dare he said that" phrase.
Calling someone a walkover = a comment on their skill Calling someone arrogant = a comment on their personality
The difference in my mind isn't the severity of the insult but instead what you're insulting.
IdrA: "Q: If you had to introduce yourself to our fans who never met you, how would you describe yourself? Write a few sentences about your personality.
Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show. "
I would think that to a person like IdrA and a die hard progamer, having their skill insulted in such a way would be much worse than being called arrogant. Its like Gordon Ramsay doesn't really give a rats ass if you think he's an angry douchebag but doesn't take crap when it comes to his restaurants and cooking.