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On March 22 2011 11:26 Crazysane wrote:
I don't know, a 2 base baneling bust seems too strong. It requires the terran to get early seige tanks after his expansion and might not even come in time for the banelings. In my opinion, the 2 base baneling bust is virtually unstoppable and it's hard to scout because the zerg could hide the baneling nest, like morrow did in game 1 where he hid it in his natural. Also, making a tighter wall is out of the question unless Jinro decided to make 5 barracks as a wall opposed to 3 barracks. If he did that, he probably couldn't even make out of some of his barracks because his other barracks would block marines coming out of those other barracks. I guess bunkers would work, but as I said, it's very hard to scout it. Maybe scouting with an extra barracks floating over the zerg's main might work...
It's fairly easy to hold and you'd definitely have siege tanks out by then - it's built to punish people who go for the medi/drop style play first rather then Siege first.
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mc's overconfidence and arrogance makes me sick. bm like this is on the same level as rape and murder and pillaging. he is a dispicable human being and i have lost all respect for him
he is also ruining the legitimacy of esports, as the main demographic of people watching and playing videos games like this are males in their teens and twenties of which trash talking and banter is uncommon and generally unaccepted amongst.
User was warned for this post
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On March 22 2011 12:08 cosmincontra wrote:
mc's overconfidence and arrogance makes me sick. bm like this is on the same level as rape and murder and pillaging. he is a dispicable human being and i have lost all respect for him
he is also ruining the legitimacy of esports, as the main demographic of people watching and playing videos games like this are males in their teens and twenties of which trash talking and banter is uncommon and generally unaccepted amongst.
i'm not sure whether to take you seriously and report you or that you're being sarcastic. If you are being sarcastic pls put "/sarcasm"!!!
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How did Hasuobs win? I'm not trying to bash the guy. He's a perfectly good player. But, it's HuK?
My bracket is ruined.  Oh well, there's always next TSL...
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On March 22 2011 11:18 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 09:36 Ridiculisk wrote:
Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
Anywho, I'll probs get banned for that but w/e... I personally don't think it's that unsportsmanlike, he never comes out and says, X player is the WORST player ever he just asserts himself in a big way, if anything it helps fuel the spirit of competition as when anyone goes up against him it adds the extra factor of "who will knock MC down a peg" rather then just the typical, good player X vs good player Y doing pregame interviews with all the humbleness and nicieties.
I can not say I agree, I mean unless there is some kind of real personal differences you do not see this in other sports. MMA or boxing you see a ton of banter and talk before fights then once its done they tend to have full respect for each other, regardless of how good or bad the opponent is, MC just seems to keep the disrespect constantly flowing.
I am sure he does it to keep his own focus and confidence peaking though, but consciously doing it for the tournament? If thats true forget anything I have said then.
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I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair.
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nooooo, huk and jinro.... :'(, I had jinro going all the way...I'm really rooting for Tyler (teeeeler), but I don't know if he can stop the machine of MC, and/or maybe TLO have a breakout tournament against the koreans here :o
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On March 22 2011 13:48 esaul17 wrote:
I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair.
uhhh you dont realise... they are idra fans.. its ok if idra does it but if mc does it, its not ok... because he is not white.. jeez... get with the times will ya?
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Good interviews, crazy upsets all around it really shows how close the skill gap is between the top players of the globe!
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On March 22 2011 14:42 ilmman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 13:48 esaul17 wrote:
I don't get why people hate MC so badly. He stomped Ciara with only a 3 gate without losing any units, and the guy ragequit. What is he supposed to say, that he is a top Z? Wouldn't it be more arrogant and condescending to act like he was totally smashing S-Class players when the games went like that?
He was asked about Loner and said he didn't think he was playing too well. This doesn't seem too inaccurate. He thought WhiteRa was successful but that he would still win. Looking at both their PvP history, this seems reasonable.
It isn't like IdrA telling players to get self respect for playing a certain race or something. He is giving analysis of players which were requested, and quite fair. uhhh you dont realise... they are idra fans.. its ok if idra does it but if mc does it, its not ok... because he is not white.. jeez... get with the times will ya?
Haha it is not even like IdrA and MC do the same thing. MC states that he thinks he is better than certain players when asked, crushes them, then restates his assessment afterwards. If he doesn't think he is way better than someone he doesn't lie. When he was put in MVP's group in the selection for GSL5, he said he was okay with it because he could beat Hyperdub and July, even if he couldn't beat MVP, acknowledging his strength.
IdrA on the other hand says lots of players have little skill like Nestea. Or got luckly like Nestea or July. Or have no self respect because they play Terran. Or take losing for squirtle for good evidence that he, Idra, is the better player.
MC crushes everyone and is aware of it.
IdrA gets crushed then insults his opponents and people who do better than he ever has.
I don't want this to sound anti-IdrA. I do quite like him, think he is very skilled, and love how he will be honest in interviews. I don't really like his raging, but I can see past it.
I just can't see past people acting like IdrA and MC's BM similar. MC beats you and puts a manner nexus in your main to play mind games and show how far ahead he is. IdrA loses to you and calls you a talentless n00b who didn't deserve to win.
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HasuObs micro is awesome. He really deserves that win.
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I'm gonna reply to this although probably noone will read this anymore.
On March 22 2011 02:33 Skroach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 02:14 Mandalor wrote:On March 22 2011 01:22 enzym wrote:On March 22 2011 00:56 Enervate wrote:On March 22 2011 00:21 enzym wrote:On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote:
Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking. People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses. The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited. mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%. Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy. PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out. That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win. And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it. PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose. Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs. I don't buy into this "randomness rock/paper/scissors" thing. You can't say this on one hand then also say "well the better player should usually win". How do you explain MC's 86% win ratio in the matchup if it REALLYis randomness? If he wins because he is 10x better than the opponents like you say, then it isn't a rock/paper/scissors match. Can't be both! Please go look up the meaning of the word random on wikipedia or something because nobody seems to know what it actually means. You heard some pro who doesn't like the matchup say this and are just copying their opinion without putting any thought into it yourself. If it was like this, the best player in the world should not have such a high win rate in the matchup. Link to his record: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/640_MCI would love to actually hear a good argument for this randomness some people think seems to exist in PvP. Nothing said so far can be considered an argument because they're just statements without any evidence/support.
I said if a player is 10 times better (more like 100) then the randomness doesn't factor in as much. Jaedong has such good statistics in bw zvz because he's a billion times better than his zerg opponents. Still, if he chooses to 14 hatch, he's severely behind against a zerg opening 10 pool.
And please don't make assumptions about how I form my opinions. I'm a decent protoss player and I have personally beaten players in tournaments I never never ever should have because they're infinitely better than me. Turns out 90% of those wins were PvPs.
On March 22 2011 03:38 chaosdarkprince wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 02:14 Mandalor wrote:On March 22 2011 01:22 enzym wrote:On March 22 2011 00:56 Enervate wrote:On March 22 2011 00:21 enzym wrote:On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote:
Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking. People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses. The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited. mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%. Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy. PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out. That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win. And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it. PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose. Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs. well there's something called scouting man, you just can't win in this game by going blindly and just hoping for your build order to win, it's suicidal, because you never know when you'll make a little mistake and then pay for it tenfold... if you want, recall MC's interview -he is NOT blindly beating opponents- he said he wasn't worried about Ciara's growing army because he had observers always scouting it... Come on guys, i'm a big fan of HuK myself, but let's be honest, he did poorly (to his level of course, not that im better or something), both in decision making and in control, no paper-scissors-rock, just lower (than usual) level of play
God, please play the game before you talk about it. There is no possibility to scout in between the scout probe's death and the first observer. Unfortunately this is the time window in which you and your opponent choose your strategies. You have to play blind, at least to some extent. You can kind of figure out by looking at his nexus (chrono), building placement etc. what he might be aiming for, but this still means verrry scarce information (randomness).
MC vs ciara was a PvZ btw. My entire point was that PvP is random, not PvZ.
I'm not even a big HuK fan. He comes off as cocky sometimes and I just don't like his playstyle and actually prefer HasuObs'. Still, HasuObs is clearly the worse player and a big factor in why he beat HuK was the randomness of the matchup.
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@Mandalor
I really hope that "randomness of the matchup" will help White-ra against MC.  Great games so far and I really love SC2 of being absolutely impossible to predict.
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On March 22 2011 09:36 Ridiculisk wrote:
Wow, some pretty serious upsets so far. Can't wait to see how it all turns out.
Nice to see the foreign players taking it to the koreans.
Edit: Just got done reading MC's interviews...and honestly I don't know what to say.
His attitude is totally unbecoming of a world class player. Don't get me wrong, he deserves to be a little cocky, I mean he's won GSL twice now, so there is no doubt he is probably one of (if not THE) best players in the world. But seriously???
I think that attitude is completely unnacceptable tbh. The whole of the E-sports world has their eyes on MC, and he isnt exactly acting very sportsman like. Not only does his attitude paint a bad picture of him, but it detracts from E-sports as a whole. He needs to be an example, and show fans and sponsors that E-sports is the real deal, and not just a bunch of arrogant kids playing games.
Anywho, I'll probs get banned for that but w/e...
Are you a competitive sports fan? There are a lot of pro sports players that are very cocky, and they bring in a lot of money because of their big personalities and attitude. I don't think it's bad for eSports. You don't say Kobe Bryant is bad for basketball because of his attitude, in fact millions of people love Kobe and he makes a ridiculous amount of money for the sport. In a way it's best to have people with different personalities as opposed to a bunch of humble, quiet guys. For eSports to be recognized globally as a 'real' sport, it needs people like MC.
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Calgary26004 Posts
I'm not sure why the community suddenly expects players to tiptoe in their interviews. I didn't find MC BM at all and he crushed Ciara. I love him.
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MC said he'll crush Ciara, he crushes Ciara, he restates that he crushed Ciara, where's the BM?
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On March 22 2011 20:22 Mandalor wrote:I'm gonna reply to this although probably noone will read this anymore. Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 02:33 Skroach wrote:On March 22 2011 02:14 Mandalor wrote:On March 22 2011 01:22 enzym wrote:On March 22 2011 00:56 Enervate wrote:On March 22 2011 00:21 enzym wrote:On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote:
Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking. People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses. The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited. mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%. Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy. PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out. That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win. And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it. PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose. Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs. I don't buy into this "randomness rock/paper/scissors" thing. You can't say this on one hand then also say "well the better player should usually win". How do you explain MC's 86% win ratio in the matchup if it REALLYis randomness? If he wins because he is 10x better than the opponents like you say, then it isn't a rock/paper/scissors match. Can't be both! Please go look up the meaning of the word random on wikipedia or something because nobody seems to know what it actually means. You heard some pro who doesn't like the matchup say this and are just copying their opinion without putting any thought into it yourself. If it was like this, the best player in the world should not have such a high win rate in the matchup. Link to his record: http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/sc2-korean/players/640_MCI would love to actually hear a good argument for this randomness some people think seems to exist in PvP. Nothing said so far can be considered an argument because they're just statements without any evidence/support. I said if a player is 10 times better (more like 100) then the randomness doesn't factor in as much. Jaedong has such good statistics in bw zvz because he's a billion times better than his zerg opponents. Still, if he chooses to 14 hatch, he's severely behind against a zerg opening 10 pool. And please don't make assumptions about how I form my opinions. I'm a decent protoss player and I have personally beaten players in tournaments I never never ever should have because they're infinitely better than me. Turns out 90% of those wins were PvPs. Show nested quote +On March 22 2011 03:38 chaosdarkprince wrote:On March 22 2011 02:14 Mandalor wrote:On March 22 2011 01:22 enzym wrote:On March 22 2011 00:56 Enervate wrote:On March 22 2011 00:21 enzym wrote:On March 21 2011 19:05 Stamper wrote:
Love Morrows answer concerning the match Hasu vs HuK. Exactly what i was thinking. People should really stop making excuses whenever their favourite player loses. The better player in that particular matchup on that particular day wins. That's all there is to it. HuK lost because his decision making (including build choice and not scouting the proxy pylon) and arguably preparation was worse (less in depth) than Hasu's. Jinro lost because he took risks, which MorroW exploited. mouz was better in 66% of these games, and Liquid was better in the remaining 33%. Just because pvp seems unpredictable for fans and a lot of players doesn't make it inherently random or chancy. PvP is inherently random. In PvP, build order wins are quite common because it's impossible to scout after your probe dies and before your obs gets out. That doesn't mean Hasu doesn't deserve his win. And the players choose those buildorders. They are not chosen for them. It is not random. It is your job to know the weakness of your build and make sure you can handle anything threatening it. PvP is rock/paper/scissors. If you pick rock, you'll lose to paper etc. You have to choose one, you can't put a flamethrower on your rock to beat paper. Obviously, players that are ten times better than any other protoss (like mc) will have decent chances beating everyone no matter which build they choose. Still, PvP is random and with the state of the game right now, we'll continue to see worse players beat better players because of the random factor in this matchup. No offense to HasuObs. well there's something called scouting man, you just can't win in this game by going blindly and just hoping for your build order to win, it's suicidal, because you never know when you'll make a little mistake and then pay for it tenfold... if you want, recall MC's interview -he is NOT blindly beating opponents- he said he wasn't worried about Ciara's growing army because he had observers always scouting it... Come on guys, i'm a big fan of HuK myself, but let's be honest, he did poorly (to his level of course, not that im better or something), both in decision making and in control, no paper-scissors-rock, just lower (than usual) level of play God, please play the game before you talk about it. There is no possibility to scout in between the scout probe's death and the first observer. Unfortunately this is the time window in which you and your opponent choose your strategies. You have to play blind, at least to some extent. You can kind of figure out by looking at his nexus (chrono), building placement etc. what he might be aiming for, but this still means verrry scarce information (randomness). MC vs ciara was a PvZ btw. My entire point was that PvP is random, not PvZ. I'm not even a big HuK fan. He comes off as cocky sometimes and I just don't like his playstyle and actually prefer HasuObs'. Still, HasuObs is clearly the worse player and a big factor in why he beat HuK was the randomness of the matchup.
The funny thing is, that "rock-paper-scissor" only played a role in the match Huk won.
In the first game he had bad micro with his initial 4gate attack and he threw away many units the whole game.
In the second game he produced blindly 2 immortals and countered Hasu's blinkstalker-build. He would be behind, if Hasu went straight for Colossi.
In the third game he forgot to scout his own base for probes/pylons.
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On March 22 2011 21:41 Chill wrote:
I'm not sure why the community suddenly expects players to tiptoe in their interviews. I didn't find MC BM at all and he crushed Ciara. I love him.
Really just a matter of taste isn't it, we can all argue/talk about it endlessly but that is just want it comes down to which of course ends up creating rivalry and interest which we all want.
Personally I can not stand it in any form of life, no matter how successful they are, it just comes across as someone who is shallow and under developed character; granted they could be completely different in day to day life.
Battle of the right and left, welcome to the human race.
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MC seems very arrogant. I didnt really like him before and this interview made it even worse. Hope White-Ra wins vs MC.
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EPT
