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ClouD vs G5 Results and Interview

Forum Index > TSL2 Forum
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Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 16:10:41
January 07 2010 06:00 GMT
#1
If you want to watch the replays spoiler free, stop reading and CLICK HERE.



[image loading]


inF.ClouD vs G5[Media] Results and Interview


Replays

(P)(it)inF.ClouD < Bo3 > (P)(us)G5[Media]
Game 1 @ Destination
Game 2 @ Outsider
Game 3 @ Fighting Spirit


Full Detailed Results:

+ Show Spoiler [Show Results] +
(P)(it)inF.ClouD < Destination > (P)(us)G5[Media]
(P)(it)inF.ClouD < Outsider > (P)(us)G5[Media]
(P)(it)inF.ClouD < Fighting Spirit > (P)(us)G5[Media]

inF.ClouD 0-2 G5[Media]


Interview with Winner


Congratulations! How do you feel?

I feel good. I prepared a lot for my match. After I won, I got up and let all of my frustration out and felt extremely relieved. I have prepared for tournaments (such as WCG) like this before but I haven't prepared for a single match up and single player like that in a very long time. I am very happy.

Describe what happened in each game and what you were thinking at critical moments.

Game 1, I started with a safe / macro oriented build. I was relieved he didn't proxy gate simply because I scouted a little later than I usually do because Cloud is a solid player and I didn't expect proxies. We both went into macro oriented builds but where it differed, I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, wether it be him attacking me or me attacking him.

Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count. So I pushed at his third (which I didn't know he had) and simply 1a2a3a4a when I was in a good position and won the battle like I planned. Him taking a third so early ensured it as a victory for me, if he didn't it woulda been closer.

And Game Two?

Game 2, I started with essentially the same build order as Game 1. Fast expo off into probe cut to get my robo / 2nd and 3rd gateway up faster to stop any aggressive attacks. He actually attacked me off two gateways and micro'd better than me to force all my units back into my main as he was killing my nat. I had to use probes to stop his attack, at which point I thought I would probably lose. He miss-micro'd and I got to screw up his goons AI with my probes a bit / hold my nat which is the only reason I was still in the game.

After that I had NO idea wtf he was doing and basically made as many units as fast as I could thinking a 3 gate goon or something was about to run me over. When my first ob got out I saw he did 2 gate reaver and I basically played the best I could / adapted to whatever he was doing to try and hold on. There was about 3 points in this game I thought I lost.

His final attack he attacked me with a bigger army and I was basically like "f*ck" and he ended up pulling back for whatever reason (scared of reavers or something I think) and I just 1a2a3a'd into his base / brought along my straggling reavers. I got to chip away waaaay too much during his retreat and pushed into his nat ftw. This game we traded armies a bunch and with my probe cutting I felt like I was on the edge all game and behind in eco the entire time. I would be surprised if I was ever up in supply the entire game. I was just fortunate to have fought in pretty good positionings in almost every battle.

What do you think about flaf? How is your PvZ? You will be facing two tough Zergs in the upcoming weeks.

I still don't know much about (Z)(ro)FlaF. I have been told a few things from friends about him but nothing worth noting. He qualified for TSL so he obviously isn't someone you can take lightly, and I won't. My PvZ right now is the best it has ever been. I have been fortunate for many years that I have so many friends who are some of the fiercest players outside of Korea. I will definitively be calling on them for advice / practice in the upcoming days / weeks to prepare for my matches vs FlaF and possibly (Z)(nl)Ret.

Are you doing anything to celebrate?

I celebrated after the match with a nice little victory cigarette. And now it's back to preparing for my next match / living normal life.

Who helped you practice for this match? Any shout-outs?

I want to thank (P)(ua)White-Ra, (P)(us)NonY and (P)(de)iNfeRnaL for their help with practice / theorycrafting for this match. Especially White-rA who theorycrafted with me quite a bit over a span of a week or two and helped me to understand the match up a lot more.

Thanks for the interview and good luck next round!

Thanks for supporting me. I will be bringing my A-GAME every match I play throughout this tournament. If I lose it won't be because I was unprepared. <3 All~ G'Night~


Congratulations to (P)(us)G5[Media]!
Full TSL Ro48 Qualifiers R1/R2 Schedule



This TSL is sponsored by PokerStrategy.com, the world's largest poker school and community. With hundreds of Poker VODs and an assortment of learning material in 18 different languages, PokerStrategy.com offers the chance for aspiring Poker players to learn from a beginner to a professional level.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42547 Posts
January 07 2010 06:21 GMT
#2
This was
Games were decent but I wanted Carlo to win. Still congrats to G5.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
NeoOmega
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States495 Posts
January 07 2010 06:21 GMT
#3
G5 FIGHTING!!!
Ursadon-n-Pals
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States928 Posts
January 07 2010 06:22 GMT
#4
^_^ and the TSL Ro48 has started.
Nothing worth having comes easy.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
January 07 2010 06:22 GMT
#5
Congrats G5!

Game 2 was pretty exciting, got to feel for ClouD though (losing despite a heavy economy/supply advantage for pretty much the entire game).
✌
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 06:22:59
January 07 2010 06:22 GMT
#6
sick games (well i only saw game 2, which was pretty good anyway)

thanks for streaming chill
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
TryThis
Profile Joined February 2007
Canada1522 Posts
January 07 2010 06:22 GMT
#7
those games were too quick i thought

it was sad to see cloud go out like that.
gl too g5 though!
Dwell
numLoCK
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada1416 Posts
January 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#8
YES. G5 is a hero indeed.
LorDo
Profile Joined December 2008
Sweden485 Posts
January 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#9
gg's!
bellweather
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States404 Posts
January 07 2010 06:23 GMT
#10
Well done G5, second game was particularly exciting. Good luck against FlaF.
A mathematician is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat which isnt' there. -Charles Darwin
Lachrymose
Profile Joined February 2008
Australia1928 Posts
January 07 2010 06:24 GMT
#11
how could you lose with support like that?

wd g5!
~
CaptainPlatypus
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States852 Posts
January 07 2010 06:25 GMT
#12
Congratulations G5! Rock on!
DanceCommander
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1808 Posts
January 07 2010 06:26 GMT
#13
the second game was pretty close! great interview
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 06:42:01
January 07 2010 06:28 GMT
#14
GGs.

I'm going to love this Saturday.

Who helped you practice for this match? Any shout-outs?

I want to thank (P)(ua)White-Ra, (P)(us)NonY and (P)(de)iNfeRnaL for their help with practice / theorycrafting for this match. Especially White-rA who theorycrafted with me quite a bit over a span of a week or two and helped me to understand the match up a lot more.


I feel like the TSL is going to raise the level of the foreigner game quite a bit..! This is awesome.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
January 07 2010 06:28 GMT
#15
Congrats G5!
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
huameng
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
United States1133 Posts
January 07 2010 06:30 GMT
#16
Felt like cloud's battle positions were quite poor both games. Think he would've won with just a little better positioning. Oh well, better luck next time
[image loading]
skating
horang3
Profile Joined November 2009
United States261 Posts
January 07 2010 06:31 GMT
#17
good work G5. just don't flaf up your next match.
Do great work
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
January 07 2010 06:36 GMT
#18
gj G5 and gl vs FlaF. Game 2 was weird.... I really thought Cloud had that from the start when he scouted the 1 gate expo and then throughout the game with his eco+army advantage.
klizzer
Profile Joined March 2008
517 Posts
January 07 2010 06:44 GMT
#19
Well, Cloud attacked at the wrong times in game 2 imo. Had he stalled he would heavily outnumber G5's forces.

cookie monster
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
January 07 2010 06:47 GMT
#20
Unexpected result, I totally expected this to go to a third game [especially while watching game two]. I like G5 and Cloud a lot, together with White-Ra, those are my three favourite Protoss players, so it's bittersweet considering one had to lose. I feel bad for Cloud because in game one, I felt he was ahead, and that G5's attack was one he needed to make [obviously, he even stated in the replay]. It's unfortunate that Cloud didn't have storm when G5 attacked, it was essentially perfect [unintentional, but w/e] timing on G5's part, but IDK if Cloud could have survived even with storm, would've been a lot closer that's for sure.

Good luck in the rest of the tournament G5, I hope either you or White-Ra wins it, or goes really far! Good luck in future endeavors Cloud, I hope you still play BW!
[image loading]
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
January 07 2010 06:48 GMT
#21
Aww, I really wanted Cloud to win. Too bad.

G5 had imba practise partners.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
eXNewB
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada291 Posts
January 07 2010 06:50 GMT
#22
i cant believe no one has done a commentary on this yet and put it on youtube... mad hits!
THERES NO WAY HE CAN STOP THOSE HYDRAS!
Spike
Profile Joined October 2003
United States1392 Posts
January 07 2010 06:56 GMT
#23
Cloud should have just taken out that nexus and bailed in the 2nd game.
Even after that, still could have won by waiting it out.

Anyway, GJ G5.
CaucasianAsian
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Korea (South)11576 Posts
January 07 2010 07:00 GMT
#24
first game i think cloud only lost the battle was because his psi storm was like 10 seconds away from finishing, when G5 attacked. ee-han timing imo!
Calendar@ Fish Server: `iOps]..Stark
thopol
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Japan4560 Posts
January 07 2010 07:02 GMT
#25
That was some very tight play by both players, but I felt that Cloud really dropped the ball with his army control. In every battle G5 had a sexy concave outside Cloud's clumped units. I think this was a decisive factor in his victory.

Still, a very nice showing by both players. What a nice first couple of games in these TSL qualifiers.
CoOl]1st[
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States243 Posts
January 07 2010 07:08 GMT
#26
G5 i can't wait to see you face a T. I'd love for you to knock idra out (if at all possible with brackets)
Wizard]1st[ fighting :O
Ronald_McD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada807 Posts
January 07 2010 07:11 GMT
#27
It's too bad G-5 attacked right before Cloud's storms came in on game 1. He lost everything after that.

Cloud lost the second game to superior positioning and micro, G5 played a great defense for a while there.
FUCKING GAY LAGS
AtlaS
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 07:13:48
January 07 2010 07:13 GMT
#28
Really impressed with G5's play in game 1. Even though he said he didn't know the 3rd came up and he attacked about 15 seconds before storm finished for cloud, you gotta think that G5 just had a better grasp of the game and he was on a roll. Everything went in G5's his favor for that battle. Plus, that concave was sexy. Cloud just looked awkward for most of the time with only a few glimpses of brilliance sprinkled throughout the series.

GG to both players and I'm glad to see you advance G5, I was definitely pulling for you in this match.
I don't have mono anymore. Woooo!
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
January 07 2010 07:19 GMT
#29
I definately wanted ClouD to win, but it sounds like G5 has been practicing very hard for some time now... so its a well deserved win. I also enjoyed reading his interview.

If it was a best of 5, it may have been another story. Both games had some very fortunate battle micro situations work out for G5
MC Fighting!~
vx70GTOJudgexv
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3161 Posts
January 07 2010 07:31 GMT
#30
GJ G5, and better luck next time ClouD.

As pretty much everyone has said, these two are both solid players and either one of them deserves to advance. It's a shame that they had to end up matched up so early on. On that note with the group, it's a shame that these three [G5, ClouD & ret] ended up in the same group together, as I feel all three of them could've had success in the Ro16.

Still, GG guys and congrats to G5.
(-_-) BW for ever. #1 Iris fan.
Guilty
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada812 Posts
January 07 2010 07:31 GMT
#31
congrats to G5, well played series.
Too bad i liquibetted cloud...lol
"How hard could it be?" -J. Clarkson
merz
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
Sweden2760 Posts
January 07 2010 07:36 GMT
#32
+ Show Spoiler +
Wow I can't believe Cloud lost Game 2. He was up on supply and +1 Expo. T_T Carlo!
Winners never quit, quitters never win.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 07 2010 07:38 GMT
#33
g5 so amazazazing
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
January 07 2010 07:56 GMT
#34
Gratz G5, and awesome that you were able to get advice from some of the top tosses :D
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
404.Delirium
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1190 Posts
January 07 2010 08:02 GMT
#35
If only storm was finished in game one before G5 hit the third. 4 HT's of storm would've made a significant difference.

All speculation though. Congrats G5, and sorry go ClouD (Was rooting for you <3)
seriously next disrespectful comment in this blog is ip ban. Be happy or get the hell out. // SC2 is like playing with neutral-colored Play-Doh while BW is like colorful Legos.
iD.NicKy
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
France767 Posts
January 07 2010 08:28 GMT
#36
GO eric GO
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 07 2010 08:45 GMT
#37
YES ERIC I FUCKIN LOVE YOU
FirstBorn
Profile Blog Joined March 2007
Romania3955 Posts
January 07 2010 08:59 GMT
#38
Nooo Cloud

Grats to G5 for hanging in the second game, I most certainly didn't expect him to take it home.
SonuvBob: Yes, the majority of TL is college-aged, and thus clearly stupid.
TheBB
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Switzerland5133 Posts
January 07 2010 09:00 GMT
#39
Dude, G5, you don't loose in SC, but you do sometimes lose.

Anyway, sad to see Cloud go.
http://aligulac.com || Barcraft Switzerland! || Zerg best race. || Stats-poster extraordinaire.
amanet
Profile Joined December 2007
Croatia334 Posts
January 07 2010 09:09 GMT
#40
very lucky games! gj g5
RebirthOfLeGenD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
USA5860 Posts
January 07 2010 09:11 GMT
#41
lol wow Cloud was one of the only r3 people I voted for to advance. I am a little surprised but mostly impressed. I would of been happy with either player advancing. The games G5 just put up were quite simply amazing timing and army control. Although it must be said that cloud played rather sub-par for some of it especially when losing his first reaver in game 2 for basically nothing.

But GL G5, I can't wait to see you PvZ.
Be a man, Become a Legend. TL Mafia Forum Ask for access!!
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
January 07 2010 09:15 GMT
#42
U S A!
U S A!
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 07 2010 09:19 GMT
#43
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Kaniol
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Poland5551 Posts
January 07 2010 09:20 GMT
#44
Man game 2 was VERY exciting, i was shocked when Cloud lost. But why didn't he cast storms? No research? :/
I guess with storms Cloud would have been in way better situation, especially when 2 reavers were near each other with attack at his nat. But gotta say - G5 really made a good job with his last attack.
SiDX
Profile Joined July 2009
New Zealand1975 Posts
January 07 2010 09:21 GMT
#45
Nice. Game one i was like woah thats a lot of templars but no storm

and that sucks cloud :\ i get more nervous on online matches then in a tourney/lan..weird
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 07 2010 09:23 GMT
#46
I'm going to let cloud finish here, but G5 had one of the best PvP probe cuts of recent TSL2 history.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 07 2010 09:29 GMT
#47
woowoo G5 fighting!
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
Drazzzt
Profile Joined September 2002
Germany999 Posts
January 07 2010 09:29 GMT
#48
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.
Be Nice, Be Fair, Be Mannered.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 07 2010 09:41 GMT
#49
On January 07 2010 18:29 Drazzzt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.

I am not gonna state he played good if he played without scouting at all, nor I am gonna state he had a better preparation when he obviously didn't. Why is it unmannered? Have you even watched the replays?
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 09:50:33
January 07 2010 09:48 GMT
#50
G5s timing in game1 was nice... he hit cloud right before storm was finished. i'm not sure, if he would have won the game 30 seconds later (as storm was finished as he crossed clouds bridges).
but it seemed to me that storm came pretty late for cloud though...

ggs & congrats to g5!
http://twitter.com/jhNz
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
January 07 2010 09:48 GMT
#51
both of u were going blind game 1 (thats alittle part of the charm in pvp). none of u really checked out each other alot so g5 decided so cut probe and 2base while u mass probe and 3base... so it wasnt really just him who played unsafe. its pvp there is not really any "safe" build if ive understood this correctly from other toss users. g5 played better than u and he deserved to win and if u get nervous we still shouldn't take any credits away from g5

if ur nervous u should figure out a way to get past that instead of giving up at playing these tournaments if u enjoy them so much
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
Crahptacular
Profile Joined December 2008
United States295 Posts
January 07 2010 09:51 GMT
#52
Grats to G5, though I think there was a good deal of luck involved (more specifically, unpredictable mistakes from Cloud's part). Cloud having a bunch of templars out but late/no storm research was something G5 couldn't possibly have known/worked into his strat, but it was a big factor in both games. Seemed like Cloud was definitely having a bad case of the nerves . Not to take too much credit away from G5. His army positioning was really impressive, particularly the game 1 concave at Cloud's bridge third. Good stuff.
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
January 07 2010 09:52 GMT
#53
Like inc said, Cloud imma let chu finish but G5 had one the best luck pushes of all time, of all time

Anywho I understand the frustration especially after reviewing wtf happened but you gotta give credit and let live. He deserved that win too u know
troi oi thang map nai!!!
[GiTM]-Ace
Profile Joined September 2002
United States4935 Posts
January 07 2010 09:52 GMT
#54
yay g5!! lets go usa! I don't like cloud response in here cause even if it is 100% true its lose lose and still makes you look like a jerk regardless. Might as well just say u were nervous instead of taking something away from g5. EIther way.. Lets go usa!
I may not be the best player right now but I think I can beat any 'best' players. I'll beat all the best players and become the best player. Watch me. - Jju
CoL_Drake
Profile Joined March 2005
Germany455 Posts
January 07 2010 09:55 GMT
#55
when i see
12 zealots in 2. game for cloud vs like 3 goons why he not run in kick nexus and just camp in 3 vs 1 base ? ... oh man cloud ^^
terrOne
Profile Joined September 2009
Italy172 Posts
January 07 2010 10:06 GMT
#56
G5 making blind decision? Wtf are you guys talking about? he had perma observer scounting every single move that ClouD made... (note the obsever following the shuttle)
I thing G5 had better ingame instinct decision, those reavers sniping made the GG.
HeLL yeah!
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 07 2010 10:06 GMT
#57
On January 07 2010 18:48 MorroW[MB] wrote:
both of u were going blind game 1 (thats alittle part of the charm in pvp). none of u really checked out each other alot so g5 decided so cut probe and 2base while u mass probe and 3base... so it wasnt really just him who played unsafe. its pvp there is not really any "safe" build if ive understood this correctly from other toss users. g5 played better than u and he deserved to win and if u get nervous we still shouldn't take any credits away from g5

if ur nervous u should figure out a way to get past that instead of giving up at playing these tournaments if u enjoy them so much

You do not play pvp like that on destination because when you attack on the other side of the map the opponent has a better unit count than you and can defend on the bridge mid map (and even if he cut probes I did have same units as him plus 4 templars without storm lol, but I even failed to move these 4 decisive goons on my third along with my army). That's why I said he played bad on game one, because I think that's an obsolete tactic that can eventually work if your opponent pretty much fails at macroing or having their units together. Game 2 was even more ridicolous, nexus before robo on that map is totally meaningless because any reaver push or dt build rapes it pretty bad (especially because it's easier to scout on outsider and it's not a big map). The fact I played worse than him and he deserved victory more than me as how bad I played is a fact I am not denying at all. It's just hard to bear the frustration of playing at half your capabilities in tournaments you should do better than you do in your standard practice games. That said I still wish g5 good luck against Flaf in the next round, I obviously just felt like sharing my opinion about this and it's not meant to be a personal attack against him.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
January 07 2010 10:06 GMT
#58
congrats G5.

those were good games with a lot of mistakes. Cloud forgetting storms, that was kind of weird. very weird.
I am not good with quotes
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
January 07 2010 10:15 GMT
#59
Great job Eric ~ Msg me on msn if you need some practice in the coming days
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
January 07 2010 10:18 GMT
#60
G5s timing in game1 was nice... he hit cloud right before storm was finished. i'm not sure, if he would have won the game 30 seconds later


If Flash has a good timing is because of his skill, if a foreign has a good timing it is because of his luck.

G5 won, it means he is better at this moment. Results matter.
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
EGLzGaMeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
United States1867 Posts
January 07 2010 10:20 GMT
#61
On January 07 2010 18:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm going to let cloud finish here, but G5 had one of the best PvP probe cuts of recent TSL2 history.

wow i just seen this.. epic post lol!
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 10:34:03
January 07 2010 10:25 GMT
#62
G5 fighting!
Quite a nice series, fun. Cloud had clearly better macro and hence a macro advantage all the time in both games, but lost to G5's superior micro. (alright, G5's timing was perfect in game 1, attacking just before the storm research finishing. Luck or gamesense?:-p But in game 2, just great micro, both with the probe defense several times, and constantly sniping the reavers of Cloud)

ggs
G5 is actually one of the few people who could eliminate ret without me feeling bad about it pvz scout micro gogo

On January 07 2010 18:41 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:29 Drazzzt wrote:
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.

I am not gonna state he played good if he played without scouting at all, nor I am gonna state he had a better preparation when he obviously didn't. Why is it unmannered? Have you even watched the replays?

Congratulating someone for advancing over you is not equal to saying he played good, its basic manners and accepting defeat. (and actually, he played better than you in the series, thats why he won.)
Also, if you can compare your preparations without actually seeing G5's, i guess he can might as well counter your builds without actually scouting them. (seriously though, in the interview he says he practiced with and got tips from Nony and White-Ra. Who other better foreign protosses to turn to?) Please be a little more respectful, even though you must be super-upset for having a very hard time staying calm and focused in tourneys, I understand it must suck big time.
You still have a large amount of fans, dont do this to them.
BW fighting!
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 10:37:08
January 07 2010 10:34 GMT
#63
On January 07 2010 18:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm going to let cloud finish here, but G5 had one of the best PvP probe cuts of recent TSL2 history.


lolololol

I can understand Clouds position though, I can see the points he makes and watching the games its obvious that it must have been frustrating as hell
though I dont think thats a reason not to congratulate.
But I mean if youre this nervous here, what are the chances of beating someone like ret anyways...
beep boop
CubEdIn
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Romania5359 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 11:25:32
January 07 2010 11:24 GMT
#64
Actually, after watching a bunch of Cloud's replays in the pack, I think it's a tad better for Flaf to face G5. I've seen some sick games by Cloud vs people I think are (were) a bit better than Flaf in ZvP.

So you know. Grats, G5. Sorry you lost, Cloud. Go Fluffy!
Im not a n00b, I just play like one.
torm3ntin
Profile Joined October 2009
Brazil2534 Posts
January 07 2010 11:50 GMT
#65
insane. NIce to see it finally started
Grubby and Ret fan, but a TERRAN player :D
JoeKim
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States608 Posts
January 07 2010 11:51 GMT
#66
On January 07 2010 18:23 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm going to let cloud finish here, but G5 had one of the best PvP probe cuts of recent TSL2 history.

Cloud got Kanye'd
On January 07 2010 19:15 Lz wrote:
Great job Eric ~ Msg me on msn if you need some practice in the coming days

G5 needs to train vs a GOOD zerg, sorry EzGaMeR
Tarmak_mk
Profile Joined May 2004
Macedonia410 Posts
January 07 2010 11:56 GMT
#67
same as i said. cloud gonna lose round1......
OctoberZerg
rest_less
Profile Joined January 2007
Germany142 Posts
January 07 2010 12:01 GMT
#68
In my opinion G5 was very lucky in both games, as he was basically all-in due to his probe count. It was cheese, I feel really bad for Cloud. In the first game his psi storm finished too late and in the second game, he fucked up his goon micro reaaaaally hard. I wondered why Cloud didn't go for smth like 3 gate or 4 gate when he saw G5's fe and expoed himself instead?
There is nothing more ridicoulus than "trying".
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
January 07 2010 12:04 GMT
#69
On January 07 2010 18:41 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:29 Drazzzt wrote:
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.

I am not gonna state he played good if he played without scouting at all, nor I am gonna state he had a better preparation when he obviously didn't. Why is it unmannered? Have you even watched the replays?

I know exactly what you mean here cloud no offense to G5 what so ever but Cloud played superior to G5 in both games. Better probe production, better timings, cleaner mechanics etc but the one thing which G5 did better was engage every battle perfectly. It was beautiful to watch, but man it must have sucked for you cloud =[. If G5 wants to give ret a run for his money he's really going to need to smooth over his game and bring his mechanics up to par. Here's hoping he can
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 07 2010 12:10 GMT
#70
pretty loose definition of 'played better' given the priority list in PvP Plexa
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 07 2010 12:11 GMT
#71
this is the person who put shine[kal] in 4th place in a ranking of starcraft players. you cant really expect him to understand anything at all.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 12:23:15
January 07 2010 12:14 GMT
#72
Im feeling sad cause the things that lost Cloud the game were so slim and little..
Game 2 for example his unit positioning was so bad
He was better at everything until this battle
and suddenly his zealots run one after the other and his units were not well spread

+ at one attack focusing on the nexus would have maybe been gg as well


To be honest I totally get what Cloud is saying

Basicaly G5 didnt play particulary amazing at all. Its just that Cloud made a few bad decision and G5 really just kinda got a gift here. I mean did u see how high in the tech tree Cloud was compared to G5 ? The unit count ? Man I hate to say it but all that lost it for Cloud were those very very sloppy fights.. and that is frustrating as hell. Basicaly Cloud was better in every aspect of the game except one and thats that...


ggs !

Was very nice to watch the replays man !

hatred outlives the hateful
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 07 2010 12:20 GMT
#73
yaa really congrats G5 gw !
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
Kompicek
Profile Joined May 2008
Czech Republic245 Posts
January 07 2010 12:22 GMT
#74
Clouds game is on another level than G5, too bad he played bad today and lost
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 07 2010 12:25 GMT
#75
both played really weird in my oppinion... But hey? g5 won fair and square so gl vs flaf in the next round
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 07 2010 12:26 GMT
#76
if your control and positioning and unit choice are bad enough to lose multiple fights while you're up 90 supply to 60 something is seriously wrong. they both made mistakes. cloud's were alot fuckin bigger. how did he deserve to win?
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
Corvi
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Germany1406 Posts
January 07 2010 12:31 GMT
#77
finished watching first game - SO SAD! i'm more impressed by cloud pulling of a nony than g5s build order. actually cloud was slightly ahead when he messed it up.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 07 2010 12:38 GMT
#78
On January 07 2010 21:26 IdrA wrote:
if your control and positioning and unit choice are bad enough to lose multiple fights while you're up 90 supply to 60 something is seriously wrong. they both made mistakes. cloud's were alot fuckin bigger. how did he deserve to win?

No one is saying I deserve to win, when you play that bad all you deserve is to die. Seriously though, I can't just handle the pressure. I'll keep playing and maybe I'll stream my games, but I'm not expecting to do anything in tournaments anymore.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Skeggaba
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Korea (South)1556 Posts
January 07 2010 12:40 GMT
#79
And were off!
Wow im so excited about TSL play-offs, too bad i have a HUGE exam this coming friday this next friday :/
Bisu[about JD]=I was scared (laughs). The force emanating from his facial expression was so manly that I was even a little jealous.
LordWeird
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States3411 Posts
January 07 2010 12:41 GMT
#80
Carlo

You played really well man. It was so close and there were a few times (especially in game 2) that I thought you had it. Really was hoping for you to snipe that nexus there. Oh well, good luck in the future and hoping you start streaming soon!

Your Fan,

LW
Chains none
rANDY
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United Kingdom748 Posts
January 07 2010 12:46 GMT
#81
Congrats g5 nice concaves, was slightly disappointed in the quality of the games but I guess the pressure of TSL showed, and those that can handle it will go far.


On January 07 2010 18:41 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:29 Drazzzt wrote:
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.

I am not gonna state he played good if he played without scouting at all, nor I am gonna state he had a better preparation when he obviously didn't. Why is it unmannered? Have you even watched the replays?


[image loading]
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
January 07 2010 12:46 GMT
#82
On January 07 2010 21:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
pretty loose definition of 'played better' given the priority list in PvP Plexa

yes but what i mean is G5's mistakes are a lot harder to fix than the ones Cloud made.
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
meathook
Profile Joined December 2007
1289 Posts
January 07 2010 12:50 GMT
#83
Third game was easily the best. Well played.
An ugly planet. A bug planet.
hefty
Profile Joined January 2005
Denmark555 Posts
January 07 2010 12:50 GMT
#84
Nice that the TSL is on! I don't mind one bit that this got played pre-schedule, it's an excellent teaser.

There's definately some merit to what Cloud is saying, it just doesn't mean he was more deserving of a win (I know he never claimed to be). Also has to be considered that staying calm under pressure is an important skill as well in all competitive games - if Cloud lost due to him being too nervous that also points to G5 being the better player in this aspect.

I guess the point is just that there's two sides to each story, and one doesn't have to be false for the other to be true.

Can't fully agree with what Plexa says. Cloud had better timing? Timing was against him both when G5 attacked his 3rd in game 1 and when the fight in game 2 occured before storm research was done. You may want to attribute this to either G5's timing or his luck, but it doesn't have to be one or the other.

GGs (even if imperfect), gongrats to G5, and yay! - go TSL2!
fight_or_flight
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States3988 Posts
January 07 2010 12:51 GMT
#85
On January 07 2010 21:38 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 21:26 IdrA wrote:
if your control and positioning and unit choice are bad enough to lose multiple fights while you're up 90 supply to 60 something is seriously wrong. they both made mistakes. cloud's were alot fuckin bigger. how did he deserve to win?

No one is saying I deserve to win, when you play that bad all you deserve is to die. Seriously though, I can't just handle the pressure. I'll keep playing and maybe I'll stream my games, but I'm not expecting to do anything in tournaments anymore.

Didn't (T)Flash have to take medication at one point because he was so nervous? Look at him now. I don't think this is a good enough excuse to quit playing tournaments.
Do you really want chat rooms?
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
January 07 2010 12:51 GMT
#86
Wow, congrats G5, excellent games!
deathgod6
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States5064 Posts
January 07 2010 12:52 GMT
#87
Cloud seemed to have forgotten storm in the 2nd game. Grats G5.
4.0 GPA = A rank 5.0 GPA = Olympic --------- Bisu, Best, Fantasy. i ♥ oov. They can get in my BoxeR anyday.
rANDY
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United Kingdom748 Posts
January 07 2010 13:00 GMT
#88
On January 07 2010 21:46 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 21:10 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
pretty loose definition of 'played better' given the priority list in PvP Plexa

yes but what i mean is G5's mistakes are a lot harder to fix than the ones Cloud made.


The mistakes you listed of G5 are pretty nonsense though: worse probe production? If you read his interview you would see he purposefully cut probes. Worse timings? His timing in game 1 outright won him the game. Worse mechanics? They seemed pretty even to me.
LorD_AreS
Profile Joined April 2007
Canada208 Posts
January 07 2010 13:02 GMT
#89
Loosing Cloud in tournaments will suck, he's a great player overall. Like everyone is saying eaven G5 in interview ClouD had better unit count and better econo. Just bad attack timing and bad decisions.
I can understand poeple having problemes under pressure, it probably is very hard to play when you are so stressed or not thinking clearly.

Well GG to G5 on this, got to give it to him, your attacks were great and micro was awesome.

GG guys
Schnake
Profile Joined September 2003
Germany2819 Posts
January 07 2010 13:12 GMT
#90
I still cannot believe that ClouD lost the second game. T_T Congratulations to G5 for winning.
"Alán Shore" and "August Terran" @ LoL EUW - liquidparty
St3MoR
Profile Joined November 2002
Spain3256 Posts
January 07 2010 13:15 GMT
#91
gz G5, it was close series even tho the score doesnt show, your preparation paid off keep up the good work
Prophet in TL of the Makoto0124 ways
Odeyuken
Profile Joined June 2009
France94 Posts
January 07 2010 13:21 GMT
#92
Storm was almost upgraded @ g1, mb the outcome would have been different with it :/
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 07 2010 13:23 GMT
#93
On January 07 2010 21:04 Plexa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:41 iG.ClouD wrote:
On January 07 2010 18:29 Drazzzt wrote:
On January 07 2010 18:19 iG.ClouD wrote:
It was very frustrating, I play so bad in tournaments. My preparation this time was far superior to g5 but I get too nervous and make shitty decisions, like making 4 templars before researching storm in the first game or even forgetting to research storm in the second one. I won't congratulate to g5 because I think he actually played bad (going for blind, unsafe builds without having a clue of what I was doing), but well in the end the mistake was mine trying to think I can compete in tournaments even though I always get nervous and ansious to the point of not being able to think logically at all.


I hate that kind of unmannered posts. Ok, you lost. Just stand it. He played better than you. Talking about having a "far superior preparation" or not congratulating, because "G5 played bad", is simply disrespectful. You won't win any friends talking like this.

I am not gonna state he played good if he played without scouting at all, nor I am gonna state he had a better preparation when he obviously didn't. Why is it unmannered? Have you even watched the replays?

I know exactly what you mean here cloud no offense to G5 what so ever but Cloud played superior to G5 in both games. Better probe production, better timings, cleaner mechanics etc but the one thing which G5 did better was engage every battle perfectly. It was beautiful to watch, but man it must have sucked for you cloud =[. If G5 wants to give ret a run for his money he's really going to need to smooth over his game and bring his mechanics up to par. Here's hoping he can

Yea I think this is a pretty baseless comment. G5 played better in the areas that counted.
Moderator
Yizuo
Profile Joined December 2004
Germany1537 Posts
January 07 2010 13:27 GMT
#94
man, i havent watched a replay in a looong time... since when do they have chat?
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
January 07 2010 13:29 GMT
#95
but i dont see the link to download the reps where are them>?
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
rjT.
Profile Joined May 2008
Italy295 Posts
January 07 2010 13:35 GMT
#96
carlooo : (
538
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Hungary3932 Posts
January 07 2010 13:41 GMT
#97
On January 07 2010 22:29 Re-Play- wrote:
but i dont see the link to download the reps where are them>?

Look for big bright bolded red letters and a capitalized "click here" text at the top of the op. I'm not going to help any more.
BW fighting!
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
January 07 2010 13:48 GMT
#98
On January 07 2010 19:06 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 18:48 MorroW[MB] wrote:
both of u were going blind game 1 (thats alittle part of the charm in pvp). none of u really checked out each other alot so g5 decided so cut probe and 2base while u mass probe and 3base... so it wasnt really just him who played unsafe. its pvp there is not really any "safe" build if ive understood this correctly from other toss users. g5 played better than u and he deserved to win and if u get nervous we still shouldn't take any credits away from g5

if ur nervous u should figure out a way to get past that instead of giving up at playing these tournaments if u enjoy them so much

You do not play pvp like that on destination because when you attack on the other side of the map the opponent has a better unit count than you and can defend on the bridge mid map (and even if he cut probes I did have same units as him plus 4 templars without storm lol, but I even failed to move these 4 decisive goons on my third along with my army). That's why I said he played bad on game one, because I think that's an obsolete tactic that can eventually work if your opponent pretty much fails at macroing or having their units together. Game 2 was even more ridicolous, nexus before robo on that map is totally meaningless because any reaver push or dt build rapes it pretty bad (especially because it's easier to scout on outsider and it's not a big map). The fact I played worse than him and he deserved victory more than me as how bad I played is a fact I am not denying at all. It's just hard to bear the frustration of playing at half your capabilities in tournaments you should do better than you do in your standard practice games. That said I still wish g5 good luck against Flaf in the next round, I obviously just felt like sharing my opinion about this and it's not meant to be a personal attack against him.


u are gosu man, i understand u
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
January 07 2010 13:55 GMT
#99
On January 07 2010 22:41 538 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 22:29 Re-Play- wrote:
but i dont see the link to download the reps where are them>?

Look for big bright bolded red letters and a capitalized "click here" text at the top of the op. I'm not going to help any more.

most of the time replays are linked with a .RAR or zip
now they are under the map linked many ppl can get confuse
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9560 Posts
January 07 2010 14:00 GMT
#100
I'm a little sad that ClouD got knocked out so early =(, was hoping to see him make it further. But never the less, I have to give credit where it's due. Congrats G5!!!
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
January 07 2010 14:10 GMT
#101
really dissappointing games T_T
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
January 07 2010 14:15 GMT
#102
G5 is just a straight up baller.
Whenever I watch him I keep seeing this indescribable ability to just win. I reckon if he got his mechanics up to scratch he could be a sensational player.

One game in and already this is epic.
I couldn't be more hyped; TSL time FUCK YEAH!
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
Coulthard
Profile Joined September 2005
Greece3359 Posts
January 07 2010 14:16 GMT
#103
I didnt expect that sucks
tofucake
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Hyrule19030 Posts
January 07 2010 14:17 GMT
#104
Dammit. I voted ClouD in Liquibet. That'll teach me to doubt my countrymen
Liquipediaasante sana squash banana
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
January 07 2010 14:18 GMT
#105
I dont think we can expect many very good games when the stakes are so high.
deathgod6
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States5064 Posts
January 07 2010 14:22 GMT
#106
On January 07 2010 23:18 mdb wrote:
I dont think we can expect many very good games when the stakes are so high.

Wouldn't it be the opposite since they would invest more time into practicing?
4.0 GPA = A rank 5.0 GPA = Olympic --------- Bisu, Best, Fantasy. i ♥ oov. They can get in my BoxeR anyday.
win8282
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)454 Posts
January 07 2010 14:26 GMT
#107
I dont get why in game 2 Cloud didn't ram his zealot army into G5's nat. IMO he woulda won, since if his zeals had run non-stop, they woulda arrived when G5 had like 8 goons. 14-16 zeals > 8 goons. Oh, and the rvr wasn't out yet, so zeals coulda raped the nat nexus by the time the rvr was out... unfortunate for cloud.

GG G5
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
January 07 2010 14:38 GMT
#108
On January 07 2010 21:11 IdrA wrote:
this is the person who put shine[kal] in 4th place in a ranking of starcraft players. you cant really expect him to understand anything at all.


Man I'd love to see you do the Power Rank for once (No sarcasm)
beep boop
SchOOl_VicTIm
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
Greece2394 Posts
January 07 2010 15:02 GMT
#109
Grats G5! gl at the rest of tsl2

And many thanks to Cloud for providing more drama for this tsl already :D
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
January 07 2010 15:08 GMT
#110
On January 07 2010 23:38 7mk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 07 2010 21:11 IdrA wrote:
this is the person who put shine[kal] in 4th place in a ranking of starcraft players. you cant really expect him to understand anything at all.


Man I'd love to see you do the Power Rank for once (No sarcasm)

Yeah, I'd pay to read that thread.
Purely to see the abuse others get when they inevitably disagree. The entire population of Sen'Jin Village would migrate to the thread within minutes. (+10 nerd points if you get that)
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
edahl
Profile Joined February 2008
Norway483 Posts
January 07 2010 15:13 GMT
#111
On January 07 2010 21:38 iG.ClouD wrote:
No one is saying I deserve to win, when you play that bad all you deserve is to die. Seriously though, I can't just handle the pressure. I'll keep playing and maybe I'll stream my games, but I'm not expecting to do anything in tournaments anymore.

The trouble one might have is that you don't even care to congratulate. You actually go out on a limb to not congratulate, which seems weak and suggests to me that you still think that it's all about you, ... which further suggests that the right man won the game. Anyway, good luck with all your future endavours.

Good fight guys! Thanks for a TSL2 preview :-D
PangO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Chile1870 Posts
January 07 2010 15:19 GMT
#112
I knew it !!!!
Yea Go g5 you can do it !
In Economics, the majority is always wrong. aka: MattRz
banana
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands1189 Posts
January 07 2010 15:40 GMT
#113
both games lost by cloud by making tactical mistakes, oh well, well played by g5. MAKE MORE PROBES XD
meeple
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Canada10211 Posts
January 07 2010 15:56 GMT
#114
Nice positioning on G5's part... and it really showed. Good luck facing flaf!!
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 07 2010 16:08 GMT
#115
On January 08 2010 00:56 meeple wrote:
Nice positioning on G5's part... and it really showed. Good luck facing flaf!!

Yea, I was really impressed with G5's scouting and ability to engage almost only in battles he would win.
Moderator
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
January 07 2010 16:13 GMT
#116
I don't see what is so controversial about what Plexa said. I'm actually surprised that some people seem to think that G5 systematically outplayed ClouD. G5 didn't win because he pulled off a brilliant display of gamesense and build order engineering. He won simply because ClouD didn't execute proper battle micro. GG.
MC Fighting!~
wadadde
Profile Joined February 2009
270 Posts
January 07 2010 16:20 GMT
#117
tt
that was a little painful to watch for me
looking forward to some Ret pvz at least..
tt
Response
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
United States1936 Posts
January 07 2010 16:25 GMT
#118
G5 is gosu I'm not surprised at all...GG's! :-D <3
the REAL ReSpOnSe
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28641 Posts
January 07 2010 16:31 GMT
#119
yea, g5 positioned perfectly before every battle and let cloud engage and cloud didn't bother positioning prior to battles.. couple that with forgetting/getting storm too late in both games and it doesn't matter if your opening is far superior.

not g5's fault that cloud played badly though so congratulations are still in order.
Moderator
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
January 07 2010 16:34 GMT
#120
Can definitely understand that Cloud is pissed, though
He and we all knows he can do much better

+ he kept manner and gged twice without writing shit
I know a few gamers who arent capable of doing this..

To make the upset perfect now flaf has to win vs g5 and kick out ret
that would totally shock me T_T
obviously even more than g5 beating cloud...

it was obvious that this series would be close
hatred outlives the hateful
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
January 07 2010 16:43 GMT
#121
On January 08 2010 01:13 ProTech_MediC wrote:
I don't see what is so controversial about what Plexa said. I'm actually surprised that some people seem to think that G5 systematically outplayed ClouD. G5 didn't win because he pulled off a brilliant display of gamesense and build order engineering. He won simply because ClouD didn't execute proper battle micro. GG.


indeed man, Cloud was better at producing probe, units, buildings but attacking wrong cost him both games
possitioning won both game for G5
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
XsebT
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Denmark2980 Posts
January 07 2010 17:05 GMT
#122
Game 1: Cloud didn't research storm in time / nice timing from G5...
Game 2: Cloud didn't storm? wtf!
화이팅
UnderWorld_Dream
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada219 Posts
January 07 2010 17:06 GMT
#123

GG to both of you.
and gl G5 for the rest of the tournament.
KrAzYfoOL
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Australia3037 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 17:13:49
January 07 2010 17:12 GMT
#124
damn, I really thought cloud had this : <
It's better to burn out than to fade away
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
January 07 2010 17:56 GMT
#125
On January 08 2010 01:13 ProTech_MediC wrote:
I don't see what is so controversial about what Plexa said. I'm actually surprised that some people seem to think that G5 systematically outplayed ClouD. G5 didn't win because he pulled off a brilliant display of gamesense and build order engineering. He won simply because ClouD didn't execute proper battle micro. GG.


I think it is a little controversial cause he's pretty much saying that g5 won despite having played worse, which he didn't. He played better than cloud and even cloud agrees with that.
beep boop
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
January 07 2010 18:10 GMT
#126
i really thought cloud had this. i remember being super impressed last few times i saw his pvp. That's starcraft though. Congrats to G5
Better than Pokebunny
CommanderFluffy
Profile Joined June 2008
Taiwan1059 Posts
January 07 2010 18:12 GMT
#127
On January 08 2010 01:43 Re-Play- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 01:13 ProTech_MediC wrote:
I don't see what is so controversial about what Plexa said. I'm actually surprised that some people seem to think that G5 systematically outplayed ClouD. G5 didn't win because he pulled off a brilliant display of gamesense and build order engineering. He won simply because ClouD didn't execute proper battle micro. GG.


indeed man, Cloud was better at producing probe, units, buildings but attacking wrong cost him both games
possitioning won both game for G5


Are you sure? The interview reveals G5 was cutting probes. Even though Cloud had a good econ advantage game 2, G5 had similar pop the whole game.

Positioning may have been a small factor in game 2, but i think micro and decision making were greater. As for game 1, G5 attacked the third he didnt know about at the perfect time, before storm completed.
Pain is temporary, but glory is forever.
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 18:26:41
January 07 2010 18:25 GMT
#128
game 1 super boring game 2 cloud just choked if he waited even for those 4 goons and reaver he woulda got natural
skyhighftw on iccup
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 07 2010 18:32 GMT
#129
On January 08 2010 03:25 FlameSworD wrote:
game 1 super boring game 2 cloud just choked if he waited even for those 4 goons and reaver he woulda got natural


did you watch the replays or?
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
January 07 2010 18:48 GMT
#130
I am sad for Cloud, because his PvP was always briliant and these games didn't show it. Game 2 was easy win if Cloud just waited for reaver/s and time attack G5's natural with good micro management. Game 1 was pretty even, but 1 battle decided (forgeting storm).
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 07 2010 18:53 GMT
#131
Ricjames he lost just move on, G5 is a great player anything can happen vs G5 iknow from own experience.. Im sad that cloud lost but G5 is a good player..
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
ProoM
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Lithuania1741 Posts
January 07 2010 18:59 GMT
#132
when I watched the 2nd game I thought to myself the whole time "how the hell is g5 gonna win this", but he did it and im glad ^^ (been spoiled the results before watching )
IMBA - International Mountain Bicycling Association.
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
January 07 2010 19:10 GMT
#133
i wasnt spoiled and in game 2 I was like 100 % sure that I will see a game 3 for like .. 2 times

but i <3 that even the first match out of OH so many is already that good and just .. things start to kick off thats just great !
hatred outlives the hateful
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14893 Posts
January 07 2010 19:11 GMT
#134
nooooooo cloud
AttackZerg
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States7454 Posts
January 07 2010 20:03 GMT
#135
Cloud is always amazing until big situations and then he gets raped by american protoss.

Valor/tsl2 it just works out this way =(
tYsopz
Profile Joined July 2009
Norway215 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 20:18:16
January 07 2010 20:08 GMT
#136
Cloud seemed to be the superior macro player, but he lost both games due to poor decisionmaking and bad luck. Got to feel that the force was with G5 this time.

First game he didnt use a single storm despite having a lot of templars with energy. Did he forget to research? (storms didnt come until after he already lost)

Second game he also made a lot of templars wasting all his gas forcing him to make mass zlots and cut goons, and then he morphs all his templars into archons. WTF? Did he manage to forget to research storm yet again? Even if he didnt research it, I dont think he had any reason to move out at that point.

Grats to G5.
"I'm going to send them to a far far distant place called Disneyland. Safe and sound at their own convenience, at the fastest and cheapest rate." - Lee Sung Eun
kidd
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
United States2848 Posts
January 07 2010 20:08 GMT
#137
Does anyone have this on On-Demand stream that I can watch the games on?
Hi
Johnranger-123
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United Kingdom341 Posts
January 07 2010 20:12 GMT
#138
lolz at semi-drama.
Can't wait for this weekend.
GG's guys and gl to G5 in the next round.
Belano
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Sweden657 Posts
January 07 2010 20:22 GMT
#139
GG and well played! I'm really looking forward to more games=)
Bring back 1 supply roaches.
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
January 07 2010 20:29 GMT
#140
Gratz G5
I Can Fly...
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
January 07 2010 20:47 GMT
#141
fuck yeah go g5
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
nicoaldo
Profile Joined March 2009
Argentina939 Posts
January 07 2010 21:04 GMT
#142
Congratz G5!!
And yeah ClouD, stream some of your games, u are great.
Spike
Profile Joined October 2003
United States1392 Posts
January 07 2010 21:06 GMT
#143
Can see what Cloud is saying about pretty much throwing the games.
He had better build orders but both games were lost to poor decision makings and positioning.

Game 1: Trying to save the right expansion (credit to G5 for timing) + slow storm.
Extremely bad positioning, should have just pulled back and canceled nexus.
Would have to go back and watch but at that point, I don't think Cloud would have won that battle with better positioning anyway.

Game 2: Could have killed that nexus and gotten out with his army more or less intact.
Mid-game was more even due to the fact that G5 was running on 2 nexus to 1 for some time.
After surviving G5's little push, Cloud should have just sat on 3 bases and go for map control.

Hindsight is 20/20 though.
G5's timing and positioning overcame slightly worse build orders.
Congrats.
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 21:44:16
January 07 2010 21:06 GMT
#144
Game1 10min attack:
g5-12z/20g
cloud- 13z/15g/4ht no storm
I quite like mass goon/speedz 10min attack. With 5gate->citadel, 1gas only and cut probes a bit one can attack with ~20g/20z. This is a really safe way to play the midgame to make sure you don't get out massed, though you may be out teched. Going for temp tech means spending 150/200 on archives, 100 on 2nd assim, 200/200 on storm, 100/300 for 2ht at least. Translate gas to possible mins and that makes >1000min cost just for first 2storms. Defensive storm player has some setup advantage and travel distance though.
But g5 did attack the 3rd a bit blind. Cloud had better macro overall, but bad positioning when it mattered, less units, no storm. Units is what matters most.
Game 2, cloud actually completes his 3rd this time, but again no storm, and units is what matters most. I like watching both players, and I can see why cloud is frustrated, but such is starcraft.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
January 07 2010 21:12 GMT
#145
1 USA:Europe 0

EGMachine
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
United States1643 Posts
January 07 2010 21:19 GMT
#146
G5 FIGHTING!!!!!!!

gj buddy. PVZ PRAC GOGO!
I'm like, the coolest
StarN
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States2587 Posts
January 07 2010 21:28 GMT
#147
Good job G5! White-Ra must be a gosu PvP partner xD

I'm so sad for our Cookie Monster Toss though :[
Retired BW Noob
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 21:52:05
January 07 2010 21:48 GMT
#148
congrats to g5, well played.. especially the 2nd game
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
HazMat
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
United States17077 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 21:56:04
January 07 2010 21:55 GMT
#149
Did anyone see G5's Sexy 1-goon-snipe-Shuttle-just-at-the-right-time in game 2?

I can sort of understand ClouD writing that bm post earlier since he did play bad and got eliminated from a 23k tourney.

(P)(us)G5 <3
www.youtube.com/user/ShakeDrizzle | League and SSBM content creator | Armada's Youtube Editor
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
January 07 2010 22:01 GMT
#150
Cloud pulled a Nony.
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
PokePill
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
January 07 2010 22:03 GMT
#151
On January 08 2010 01:13 ProTech_MediC wrote:
He won simply because ClouD didn't execute proper battle micro. GG.


Yea that stuffs unimportant anyways, let's try to squeeze out more probes 2 base vs 2 base during battles.
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:06:56
January 07 2010 22:06 GMT
#152
I really liked G5s play. Yeah, he isn't exactly a macro machine, but he makes the right decisions. And as shown, that is far more important. I mean wtf he almost never lost a battle. Sheer luck?

GG to Cloud as well to get so far.

Can't wait G5vsFlaF.
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
REDBLUEGREEN
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Germany1903 Posts
January 07 2010 22:06 GMT
#153
game 2 just reminded me of nony's storm drop with no storm -.-
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
January 07 2010 22:12 GMT
#154
The reason it's stupid to cut probes on desti is because getting into a good position before battle is really hard. The natural is virtually unbreakable early mid game and this will in almost every game buy sufficient time for your macro advantage to kick in.

The secondmost important thing, once you're outside your natural, is controlling the middle bridges. An inferior army, both in composition and numbers, can crush any army in the process of crossing the bridges. Hell it'll even crush an army that has just crossed the bridge since that army will be all clumped up and the other army will have a perfect surround.

This is why I believe cloud claims to have been better prepared. G5's build on desti is just a dead end in higher level play. It had no specific timing. It merely relied on hoping his opponent was stupid enough to attack into him, or that is opponent was bad enough not to cover the bridges as though his life depended upon it.

With this said: Cloud was actually stupid (or nervous) enough not to cover the bridges. He was bad enough not to realise what G5 was doing (he should've been able to deduce enough with his observer intel, seeing the low probe count and enough of everything else). He was bad enough to keep 4 goons at each far corner of the map guarding against drops despite seeing what was going on.

Which means what exactly? It means he didn't make the connection in game. He didn't read his opponent's build correctly. He didn't conclude from the intel that all he needed to do was survive a few more minutes. He didn't recognise his opponents bad build.

Now this is one of the most frustrating feelings you can experience in brood war. You've played a game where your actions were tailored towards stopping a smart opponent, where you assumed your opponent was playing a smart game, where you tried to be on top and ahead of every little advanced and smart little trick or play your opponent might pull. Cloud puts 4 goons in each corner. In his mind G5 prolly cut some probes to storm or dt-drop earlier. Cloud has an observer watching G5's 3rd, which G5 appears to be taking like any normal and smart player, though slightly later than Cloud, which probably makes Cloud feel comfortable. Cloud also has an observer at one of the middle bridges. It sees G5 preparing to cross the bridge, it sees him cross the bridge.

But, Cloud seems mentally unprepared for such a "stupid" or rather "simple" play. In his attempt to counter any move a smart player would make -- any of the tens or hundreds of advanced moves his practice partners made -- he forgot about the very basics of PvP on destination. He forgot about the possibility of an opponent doing a so called "stupid" strategy. Nowhere in his mind did he expect for G5 to cross the bridges, and that's probably why it took him almost 10 seconds to react. Once he realised what was going on it was too late.

The reason these kinds of plays are so frustrating to let go is because you know you would never ever lose to it again given another chance. At least that's the immediate feeling that will overwhelm you after playing such a game. But in reality, you know you've lost to that "crap" before, and that every once in a while you need to be reminded of the fact that so called "stupid" builds still exist. Every once in a while you need to be reminded to pay attention to the basics. To not blindly assume that every possible variation of a build you're playing is within the standard variation of an optimal build for said map.

This "every once in a while"-game that's so important to have faced, every once in a while, will probably last you 200 future games of caution and paying close attention to the basics of both your own play and your opponents. What I'm guessing went wrong for Cloud, was that, in his training, and in his laddering, he hadn't had one of these "every once in a while"-games for a long time. And I'm telling you, there's no worse feeling than losing because you abandoned the basics of something you know by heart.

I know cloud is a good enough a player to know he should have had the bridges covered. To know that he pretty much gave away a game by overlooking the rudimentary basics. He even partially had the bridge covered with the observer (even though his army was out of position). But he simply didn't expect that move, it took him far too long to react to it even though he had ample warning from the correctly placed observer.

I'm not surprised G5 played that way if he talked the games over with white-ra prior to this. But white-ra works with multiple timings. Bust timings... contain timings... Mid game army bust timings. Usually all in one and the same game. One timing usually sets him up for pulling off the next succesfully. G5 didn't have any timings really. He just cut probes, played the game like a completely normal macro game. Sat 5-6 minutes hoping his opponent would attack. Cloud didn't, G5 realised he'd lose if he didn't attack soon (absolutely the right move by him). Prayed to god the bridges were clear, and by some miracle they were. Added bonus miracle: opponent's army was still scattered once he'd crossed the bridges. 1a2a3a4a'd and won. I'm not taking anything away from G5, but this simply wasn't a very sound game plan...


Get off Cloud's back. He acknowledges he didn't deserve to win, he made far too many mistakes for that. But he should still have the right to think his opponent played bad/stupid on a map.
ceaRshaf
Profile Joined August 2009
Romania4926 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 22:33:06
January 07 2010 22:32 GMT
#155
LaLuSh , lol . "At a higher level it would not work". This is the higher level for foreign.

Analog for your long post: A Kung Fu Master engages a street gangster, and although the Kung Fu Master is GOSU, the street gangster pulls of a gun and shoots him, this way utilising one of the lowest strategies of battle ever. GET OVER IT. The Gangsta' lives, the Kung Fu Master dies.

Imagine getting CHEESED IN SOME PROGLEAGUE FINALS. Now THAT can be considered low. But not crossing a bridge and attacking at a point in time when it would sound STUPID for Cloud it's just smart not dumb. This is all about in StarCraft, surprising your enemy. Geeeesh!!
Mess with the best, die like the rest.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 07 2010 22:37 GMT
#156
if A > B > C > A, then you shouldn't pick one thing out of that circular arrangement and call it the stupid one. if a build can't cover all possible responses to it, then it's risky. if it can, but it is executed poorly, then it deserves to lose. there was nothing stupid about g5's style of play. he was hitting the timing for containing his opponent which is a legit good play for desti. cloud should have done shuttle harrass
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
January 07 2010 22:38 GMT
#157
lALush post was actually pretty good and summed it up very well imo
hatred outlives the hateful
Spike
Profile Joined October 2003
United States1392 Posts
January 07 2010 22:45 GMT
#158
You can disagree with LaLuSh's assertion but that was a good read.
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
January 07 2010 22:58 GMT
#159
On January 08 2010 07:32 ceaRshaf wrote:
LaLuSh , lol . "At a higher level it would not work". This is the higher level for foreign.

Analog for your long post: A Kung Fu Master engages a street gangster, and although the Kung Fu Master is GOSU, the street gangster pulls of a gun and shoots him, this way utilising one of the lowest strategies of battle ever. GET OVER IT. The Gangsta' lives, the Kung Fu Master dies.

Imagine getting CHEESED IN SOME PROGLEAGUE FINALS. Now THAT can be considered low. But not crossing a bridge and attacking at a point in time when it would sound STUPID for Cloud it's just smart not dumb. This is all about in StarCraft, surprising your enemy. Geeeesh!!
That's quite possibly the worst StarCraft analogy I've ever read.
MC Fighting!~
Re-Play-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Dominican Republic825 Posts
January 07 2010 23:35 GMT
#160
On January 08 2010 07:12 LaLuSh wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
The reason it's stupid to cut probes on desti is because getting into a good position before battle is really hard. The natural is virtually unbreakable early mid game and this will in almost every game buy sufficient time for your macro advantage to kick in.

The secondmost important thing, once you're outside your natural, is controlling the middle bridges. An inferior army, both in composition and numbers, can crush any army in the process of crossing the bridges. Hell it'll even crush an army that has just crossed the bridge since that army will be all clumped up and the other army will have a perfect surround.

This is why I believe cloud claims to have been better prepared. G5's build on desti is just a dead end in higher level play. It had no specific timing. It merely relied on hoping his opponent was stupid enough to attack into him, or that is opponent was bad enough not to cover the bridges as though his life depended upon it.

With this said: Cloud was actually stupid (or nervous) enough not to cover the bridges. He was bad enough not to realise what G5 was doing (he should've been able to deduce enough with his observer intel, seeing the low probe count and enough of everything else). He was bad enough to keep 4 goons at each far corner of the map guarding against drops despite seeing what was going on.

Which means what exactly? It means he didn't make the connection in game. He didn't read his opponent's build correctly. He didn't conclude from the intel that all he needed to do was survive a few more minutes. He didn't recognise his opponents bad build.

Now this is one of the most frustrating feelings you can experience in brood war. You've played a game where your actions were tailored towards stopping a smart opponent, where you assumed your opponent was playing a smart game, where you tried to be on top and ahead of every little advanced and smart little trick or play your opponent might pull. Cloud puts 4 goons in each corner. In his mind G5 prolly cut some probes to storm or dt-drop earlier. Cloud has an observer watching G5's 3rd, which G5 appears to be taking like any normal and smart player, though slightly later than Cloud, which probably makes Cloud feel comfortable. Cloud also has an observer at one of the middle bridges. It sees G5 preparing to cross the bridge, it sees him cross the bridge.

But, Cloud seems mentally unprepared for such a "stupid" or rather "simple" play. In his attempt to counter any move a smart player would make -- any of the tens or hundreds of advanced moves his practice partners made -- he forgot about the very basics of PvP on destination. He forgot about the possibility of an opponent doing a so called "stupid" strategy. Nowhere in his mind did he expect for G5 to cross the bridges, and that's probably why it took him almost 10 seconds to react. Once he realised what was going on it was too late.

The reason these kinds of plays are so frustrating to let go is because you know you would never ever lose to it again given another chance. At least that's the immediate feeling that will overwhelm you after playing such a game. But in reality, you know you've lost to that "crap" before, and that every once in a while you need to be reminded of the fact that so called "stupid" builds still exist. Every once in a while you need to be reminded to pay attention to the basics. To not blindly assume that every possible variation of a build you're playing is within the standard variation of an optimal build for said map.

This "every once in a while"-game that's so important to have faced, every once in a while, will probably last you 200 future games of caution and paying close attention to the basics of both your own play and your opponents. What I'm guessing went wrong for Cloud, was that, in his training, and in his laddering, he hadn't had one of these "every once in a while"-games for a long time. And I'm telling you, there's no worse feeling than losing because you abandoned the basics of something you know by heart.

I know cloud is a good enough a player to know he should have had the bridges covered. To know that he pretty much gave away a game by overlooking the rudimentary basics. He even partially had the bridge covered with the observer (even though his army was out of position). But he simply didn't expect that move, it took him far too long to react to it even though he had ample warning from the correctly placed observer.

I'm not surprised G5 played that way if he talked the games over with white-ra prior to this. But white-ra works with multiple timings. Bust timings... contain timings... Mid game army bust timings. Usually all in one and the same game. One timing usually sets him up for pulling off the next succesfully. G5 didn't have any timings really. He just cut probes, played the game like a completely normal macro game. Sat 5-6 minutes hoping his opponent would attack. Cloud didn't, G5 realised he'd lose if he didn't attack soon (absolutely the right move by him). Prayed to god the bridges were clear, and by some miracle they were. Added bonus miracle: opponent's army was still scattered once he'd crossed the bridges. 1a2a3a4a'd and won. I'm not taking anything away from G5, but this simply wasn't a very sound game plan...


Get off Cloud's back. He acknowledges he didn't deserve to win, he made far too many mistakes for that. But he should still have the right to think his opponent played bad/stupid on a map.



WOW Awesome Review
P1: Best rank? P2:1st time iccup, P1:really? P1 looks at the account of P2 WOW B+ last season ^^
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 07 2010 23:45 GMT
#161
I think you guys critically overvalue the idea of timing. Like by orders of magnitude.
Moderator
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 23:46:21
January 07 2010 23:45 GMT
#162
On January 08 2010 07:37 Liquid`NonY wrote:
if A > B > C > A, then you shouldn't pick one thing out of that circular arrangement and call it the stupid one. if a build can't cover all possible responses to it, then it's risky. if it can, but it is executed poorly, then it deserves to lose. there was nothing stupid about g5's style of play. he was hitting the timing for containing his opponent which is a legit good play for desti. cloud should have done shuttle harrass


no offense but did u even watch the replay ?
how has shuttle harass anything to do with the game and how it happened on desti !?

edit: i agree timing is not the real issue in those games

just look at the decisions and how bad his units were approaching the attack at the end of the game.. thats what lost it for cloud
hatred outlives the hateful
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
January 07 2010 23:47 GMT
#163
On January 08 2010 06:55 HazMat wrote:
Did anyone see G5's Sexy 1-goon-snipe-Shuttle-just-at-the-right-time in game 2?

I can sort of understand ClouD writing that bm post earlier since he did play bad and got eliminated from a 23k tourney.

(P)(us)G5 <3


If you mean what I'm thinkin about then I saw it more as a Cloud loading up the shuttle at a perfectly wrong time
beep boop
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-07 23:55:18
January 07 2010 23:48 GMT
#164
so much analysis.. the players know what their mistakes were

simply put g5 got lucky in the first game(luck is a part of bw, his b.o woulda failed if cloud upped storm faster or defended the bridges.. there was no timing involved in this game at all) and outplayed cloud in the 2nd game(this and cloud's poor decision making)
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
oberon
Profile Joined May 2009
United States1320 Posts
January 08 2010 00:12 GMT
#165
Am I the only one who thinks Cloud holds in game 1 if he doesn't suicide his storm-less HTs into G5's army and instead holds them in his main?

--oberon
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 00:22:13
January 08 2010 00:22 GMT
#166
damn it i voted cloud!

ugh why did i vote for him

even after seeing his ass get raped on tl arena
Nony is Bonjwa
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
January 08 2010 00:26 GMT
#167
After i see the 2 games and read some comments i understand alot more about PvP
Ty guys

I expecting more about Cloud :/
I Can Fly...
Art.FeeL
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
1163 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 00:36:39
January 08 2010 00:33 GMT
#168
its ok i found how to dl xD ...gona wathc this asap
I am a great believer in luck. The harder I work the luckier I am.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 08 2010 00:34 GMT
#169
On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 07:37 Liquid`NonY wrote:
if A > B > C > A, then you shouldn't pick one thing out of that circular arrangement and call it the stupid one. if a build can't cover all possible responses to it, then it's risky. if it can, but it is executed poorly, then it deserves to lose. there was nothing stupid about g5's style of play. he was hitting the timing for containing his opponent which is a legit good play for desti. cloud should have done shuttle harrass


no offense but did u even watch the replay ?
how has shuttle harass anything to do with the game and how it happened on desti !?

the two basic choices for players in this map and matchup are shuttle harrass (while keeping army at your natural) and contain (keeping most of your army outside enemy natural, while the rest defends against shuttle harrass). these choices are good because of the bridges at the naturals.

cloud's decision to do neither is a difficult way to play if the opponent is going to fight for the middle. cloud's plan is a good counter against people who do shuttle harrass (block the harrass --> get a free expansion), but a bad counter against people who fight for the middle (opponent cuts probes for timing attack, shuttle never comes, all units gogogo take middle ez).
On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
just look at the decisions and how bad his units were approaching the attack at the end of the game.. thats what lost it for cloud

i'm only looking at the strategy and gameplan choices since the rotten idea that g5's strategy was stupid/simple was introduced. im sure if bisu played cloud's build, bisu would have won. but i'd watch that replay and think "g5's strat was a good counter. let's just clean up g5's little imperfections so he's on a level with bisu, and g5 would win that game."
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
kroko
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
Finland2136 Posts
January 08 2010 00:38 GMT
#170
On January 08 2010 09:33 Art.FeeL wrote:
its ok i found how to dl xD ...gona wathc this asap

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=109448
I have Sick Timing and UnReal Macro
Djin)ftw(
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Germany3357 Posts
January 08 2010 00:43 GMT
#171
god, how could cloud lose game 2? t.t game 1 was a nicely timed attack by g5 plus bad positioning by cloud
but game 2 was so bad, 1a2a3a without any positioning, running in g5's well spread army backho style. g5 was clearly better
"jk CLG best mindgames using the baron to counterthrow" - boesthius
HowitZer
Profile Joined February 2003
United States1610 Posts
January 08 2010 01:46 GMT
#172
G5 is a beast. Game 2 was an awesome comeback game.
Human teleportation, molecular decimation, breakdown and reformation is inherently purging. It makes a man acute.
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
January 08 2010 01:51 GMT
#173
On January 08 2010 01:34 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
+ he kept manner and gged twice without writing shit
I know a few gamers who arent capable of doing this..


What's that? MaGic~PhiL making a random attack at idra's manners for the umpteenth time? Didn't see that coming...
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
LaLuSh
Profile Blog Joined April 2003
Sweden2358 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 02:34:50
January 08 2010 02:05 GMT
#174
On January 08 2010 09:34 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
On January 08 2010 07:37 Liquid`NonY wrote:
if A > B > C > A, then you shouldn't pick one thing out of that circular arrangement and call it the stupid one. if a build can't cover all possible responses to it, then it's risky. if it can, but it is executed poorly, then it deserves to lose. there was nothing stupid about g5's style of play. he was hitting the timing for containing his opponent which is a legit good play for desti. cloud should have done shuttle harrass


no offense but did u even watch the replay ?
how has shuttle harass anything to do with the game and how it happened on desti !?

the two basic choices for players in this map and matchup are shuttle harrass (while keeping army at your natural) and contain (keeping most of your army outside enemy natural, while the rest defends against shuttle harrass). these choices are good because of the bridges at the naturals.

cloud's decision to do neither is a difficult way to play if the opponent is going to fight for the middle. cloud's plan is a good counter against people who do shuttle harrass (block the harrass --> get a free expansion), but a bad counter against people who fight for the middle (opponent cuts probes for timing attack, shuttle never comes, all units gogogo take middle ez).
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 08:45 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
just look at the decisions and how bad his units were approaching the attack at the end of the game.. thats what lost it for cloud

i'm only looking at the strategy and gameplan choices since the rotten idea that g5's strategy was stupid/simple was introduced. im sure if bisu played cloud's build, bisu would have won. but i'd watch that replay and think "g5's strat was a good counter. let's just clean up g5's little imperfections so he's on a level with bisu, and g5 would win that game."


Perhaps a bad choice of words to call it stupid/simple. But I still regard it a weak build on desti because of the things you mentioned in your last post. Additionally, the manouverability shuttles give you on desti makes any sort of contain hard to pull off without the game turning chaotic on you, having to fraction your army into too many pieces and eventually getting rolled. Sacrificing tech early for a huge mass of units really limits your choices and that's why you wouldn't see bisu doing G5's build (meaning starting to cut probes THAT early and waiting THAT late to attack).

I don't really disagree with you though. Except for calling G5's (or "bisu's") strat a counter. It's a timing bust depending on the opponent being overly aggressive or the opponent being sloppy. It's a build 100% designed to wipe out the opponents army on a map where it, if your opponent caught on to your strat, should be hard to pull off.

By the time G5 decided to attack, I wouldn really call that a "timing for contain". Cloud had virtually caught up in unit count. He was safe to stroll around on his side -- had he only controlled the bridges or kept his army together. By that point any battle is pretty much game deciding. You don't really go around thinking about contains 13 minutes into the game (or whatever the timing was).

*: Anyway. I was, in my post, mostly trying to explain that feeling of dissapointment that I could empathise with in Cloud. Cloud's build or "strategy" in itself wasn't at fault or weak against what G5 did. Rather it was the fact that he failed to read G5's build correctly. That he forgot about the basics of Desti PvP. Even a player doing a standard build would have crushed Clouds army in that position. That's why I'm arguing the people in here claiming there was some kind of a brilliant timing attack involved.

It was a mistake... no more no less. G5 deserved it sure. Good timing attacks do exist on desti, sure (and bisu would prolly win if he pulled on of them). None of this means G5 played good or that his build was the reason behind the win.

G5 won, that's all that matters in the end. But that wasn't a timing attack countering a standard strategy. It was merely an attack slamming an army out of position.
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11552 Posts
January 08 2010 02:34 GMT
#175
aw man I wanted ClouD to come out on top, but seeing G5 win is a prize in itself as well.

GL G5!
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
PhOeniX[MinD]
Profile Joined August 2008
361 Posts
January 08 2010 02:44 GMT
#176
On January 07 2010 15:28 tree.hugger wrote:
GGs.

I'm going to love this Saturday.


I feel like the TSL is going to raise the level of the foreigner game quite a bit..! This is awesome.


agree
KT_FlaSh #1
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 08 2010 02:48 GMT
#177
desti was one of my courage maps, so i learned it from and practiced it with progamers, focusing on how to play safely in order to survive the crazy courage newbs. so maybe just take my word that cloud's build was riskier? maybe the execution is just confusing you, since cloud executed his build better (aside from the bad unit positioning), so it looked safer and better. g5's BO could be cleaned up a bit. but the basic idea behind it is solid, while cloud's is walking a very fine line... and now i have immense respect for incontrol, cuz after 2 posts i've already lost my patience.

all the strategy stuff aside, i agree with the empathy. my pvp is very similar to cloud's and i lose in similar ways sometimes. some gameplans have to be played perfectly in order to succeed and sometimes you dont see the holes until you've lost a game.
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
FlameSworD
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States414 Posts
January 08 2010 02:59 GMT
#178
On January 08 2010 03:32 NiGoL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 03:25 FlameSworD wrote:
game 1 super boring game 2 cloud just choked if he waited even for those 4 goons and reaver he woulda got natural


did you watch the replays or?


couldnt watch after cloud sucks to bad at attacking
skyhighftw on iccup
SolaR-
Profile Blog Joined February 2004
United States2685 Posts
January 08 2010 03:05 GMT
#179
Yo if cloud didn't have poor scouting, poor micro with unit formations, didn't forget important things, he would of won the game! If I had 100 more apm and had better micro/macro and strategy i could be A+.
Knickknack
Profile Joined February 2004
United States1187 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 04:02:09
January 08 2010 03:54 GMT
#180
The main argument against mass unit build here is that the middle is bad to pass on destination. I suppose I agree that since middle is easy to defend the faster techer should be able to stuff the mass attack player in a "black sheep wall" world, and then have a bit of an advantage. But that is simply not what happened, and live games have a lot of variation. G5 went on the offensive and nothing was standing in his way. Cloud had ob around, but it was not giving a clear view of g5 army. Cloud probably did not even see the blip from units moving across the bridge, and did not react fast enough. Even if he did he would probably have lost the battle due to having fewer units, if not the game at least.

LaLuSh puts a lot of thoughts to Cloud that are reasonable, but we don't know and cloud is not coming in here confirming it, and its hard to recall exactly what you were thinking during the game exactly. Its understandable to be annoyed when you feel you are playing a bit poor due to nerves, and you lose in a chancy situation where you don't quite scout the other guy attacking. Oh well, but thats all it is, and that is starcraft.

BTW we do have a bisu rep on this map vs best. Bisu goes relatively fast dt drop after expo and contains best at nat ~9min. Best expos and breaks out though back side. And its a long game. Note how both go for 2archons before storm though.
| www.ArtofProtoss.vze.com |
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
January 08 2010 04:38 GMT
#181
Nony go practice for saturday :O!!!
troi oi thang map nai!!!
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 08 2010 04:49 GMT
#182
So much drama when I just say I can't congratulate because I thought this set of games was bad. Basically G5 played strategically bad and my management moves were very bad. I do not shake hands after a live game if I think it was shitty, so I don't understand why I should do it online. I was actually litterary shaking while playing, and it doesn't get better anytime I play in a tournament against a player I am confident to win against. There's people arguing and even trolling in this thread, but really you can't blame me for telling my honest opinion since G5 did the same in a post game interview.

About the game analysis going on up in the thread, I think Lalush pointed pretty much what happened, even if I felt it slightly different. I am actually a very passive player. Everything I do in any matchup is to try and counter my opponent build or strategy and eventually overrun him later with better economy or position. I almost never employ aggressive tactics if I can't see what the opponent is doing, pretty much because it's the same as casting a dice. In the destination game, I saw his gate count when I needed to see it and it was the same as mine, I and had an obs right where I needed it in mid game, to see if G5 was moving to my side of the map. The fact I failed to react at all was not because I was not expecting it, it was just because I was mentally crumbling. Game 1 was still ok and G5 somehow used my poorly positioned army at his own advantage. Game 2 was completely retarded from both sides in pretty much every aspect.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 08 2010 06:55 GMT
#183
On January 08 2010 13:49 iG.ClouD wrote:
I do not shake hands after a live game if I think it was shitty.

Really? That's pretty shitty.
Moderator
PiSan
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States160 Posts
January 08 2010 07:12 GMT
#184
Despite the negative attitudes expressed in this thread, I feel like I've learned a ton about PvP on Desti. Thanks to Lalush and Nony for giving us their perspectives!
selboN
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2523 Posts
January 08 2010 07:16 GMT
#185
Good shit G5, better luck next time Cloud... Pity to see two of my favorite protosses going at it first round...
"That's what happens when you're using a mouse made out of glass!" -Tasteless (Referring to ZergBong)
nodule
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada931 Posts
January 08 2010 07:31 GMT
#186
If ClouD isn't going to congratulate G5, I guess I'll have to do it:

+ Show Spoiler +
congratulations for lpaying protoss, G5


Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
January 08 2010 07:54 GMT
#187
On January 08 2010 13:49 iG.ClouD wrote:
I do not shake hands after a live game if I think it was shitty.

If he played poorly and you were defeated 2-0 by his bad play, what does that say about your play? Pretty unsportsmanlike.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 08 2010 07:58 GMT
#188
Cloud also played ret that night (for fun) lost (expected) and had some choice words for ret.. I love cloud he is a friend of mine but his attitude has always sucked when it comes to losing. We used to watch him lecture the SHIT out of Media terrans after beating them and hearing complaints about imbalances.. it was a double sided sword cutting everyone in the room.. pretty fun to watch as a media zerg rofl
Jonoman92
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
United States9103 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 08:05:33
January 08 2010 08:03 GMT
#189
On January 08 2010 07:01 Boblion wrote:
Cloud pulled a Nony.


Why do you say that? Nony got to Courage finals on his first try and that's a live tourney vs scary koreans!
WhuazGoodJaggah
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Lesotho777 Posts
January 08 2010 08:07 GMT
#190
On January 08 2010 17:03 Jonoman92 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 07:01 Boblion wrote:
Cloud pulled a Nony.


Why do you say that? Nony got to Courage finals on his first try and that's a live tourney vs scary koreans!


the forgotten storm.
small dicks have great firepower
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 08 2010 08:16 GMT
#191
On January 08 2010 16:58 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Cloud also played ret that night (for fun) lost (expected) and had some choice words for ret.. I love cloud he is a friend of mine but his attitude has always sucked when it comes to losing. We used to watch him lecture the SHIT out of Media terrans after beating them and hearing complaints about imbalances.. it was a double sided sword cutting everyone in the room.. pretty fun to watch as a media zerg rofl

I don't think you even know what you are talking about. What bugged me about media terrans was the fact they insulted the shit out of me when they lost. Here I just said the games were played poorly and with ret I complained about the fact these new maps are too good for zerg against protoss. I don't understand how you can't see the difference here.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 08 2010 08:20 GMT
#192
I do know what I was talking about you just explained the reasoning for WHY you did what I said you did.

Don't get pissy about it cloud, if this is news to you you are in bad shape my friend: YOU ARE BM

lol
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 08 2010 08:40 GMT
#193
Again, you can't see the difference. Media terrans felt the need to insult, to try destroying the self exteem of other players when they lost games. If you want to list things regarded as BM I have a whole bunch for you aswell, but seriously pretty much the most of players feel the need to explain why they lost or disappoint when they do so, so why do you think this is something new or extremely offending? And why are you even speaking about this stuff in that manner after what you said to morrow not so long ago.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
January 08 2010 08:49 GMT
#194
I'm just glad that ClouD is back to BW. <3 Cloud. Gratz G5.

Cloud don't beat yourself up over not performing well in tournaments. It's not a perpetual thing, and it's certainly not something that everyone is immune to (like ret in courage).

About the congratulations thing: it's just a formality thing that you should say to wish your opponent good luck and show good will despite losing the game (even if you're extremely mad). You don't necessarily have to actually feel that way, but it's something that has become standard and doing it prevents you from looking like a douchebag to other people (please say gg idra), similar to 'thank you'.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 08 2010 08:54 GMT
#195
On January 08 2010 17:40 iG.ClouD wrote:
Again, you can't see the difference. Media terrans felt the need to insult, to try destroying the self exteem of other players when they lost games. If you want to list things regarded as BM I have a whole bunch for you aswell, but seriously pretty much the most of players feel the need to explain why they lost or disappoint when they do so, so why do you think this is something new or extremely offending? And why are you even speaking about this stuff in that manner after what you said to morrow not so long ago.


oh you must be confused, I never said anything about me being manner or that I never give excuses.. I was just laughing cause you are here defending what you did/do as if it is just or correct in manner. It ain't.

Also you don't understand the Media discussion: They were pricks too. Not excusing them at all. Just you were as well.

Keep trying though cloud it is fun to watch you try and explain this and all the while talk about everyone else not understanding.
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 08 2010 09:04 GMT
#196
You are not "everyone else" Geoff. And I know you are just doing this to piss me off and because you like to troll on TL. I don't actually think you are stupid to the point of not understanding what other people say. In my opinion as long as I don't offend anyone I'm fine with it, and if I do I tend to apologize. That's pretty much it and I don't really feel the need to explain you why I act like I do. I actually did already, but you just forget stuff when it's convenient to create your beloved dramas on forums, so I don't see why I should keep answering your provocations.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 08 2010 09:11 GMT
#197
hows he trying to create drama? you said you prepared better (which is obviously not the case as anyone who prepares for g5 at all knows hes completely willing to take risks, and the first thing you would have prepared for is probe cut timing rushes). you said he played bad, used risky builds, and got lucky. thats the exact same thing as calling someone a cheesy newbie.
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
aTnClouD
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Italy2428 Posts
January 08 2010 09:13 GMT
#198
On January 08 2010 18:11 IdrA wrote:
hows he trying to create drama? you said you prepared better (which is obviously not the case as anyone who prepares for g5 at all knows hes completely willing to take risks, and the first thing you would have prepared for is probe cut timing rushes). you said he played bad, used risky builds, and got lucky. thats the exact same thing as calling someone a cheesy newbie.

Maybe in your vocabulary, in the pre match interview I said I respect G5 skills and I still do. That doesn't change the fact he played these 2 games bad, not as bad as me but not worth of congratulation either.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/hunter692007/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 08 2010 09:25 GMT
#199
alright carlo you win. I was wrong to point out that you are usually bm. In fact, this is all normal behavior and everyone is wrong on the subject.

Our bad dude.
Ruehl
Profile Joined January 2007
United States68 Posts
January 08 2010 09:46 GMT
#200
gj G5 but too bad you have to play two zergs and not two terrans but if you make it to round of 16 i will buy you a few rounds at Bear Republic!
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
January 08 2010 09:54 GMT
#201
On January 08 2010 18:13 iG.ClouD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 18:11 IdrA wrote:
hows he trying to create drama? you said you prepared better (which is obviously not the case as anyone who prepares for g5 at all knows hes completely willing to take risks, and the first thing you would have prepared for is probe cut timing rushes). you said he played bad, used risky builds, and got lucky. thats the exact same thing as calling someone a cheesy newbie.

Maybe in your vocabulary, in the pre match interview I said I respect G5 skills and I still do. That doesn't change the fact he played these 2 games bad, not as bad as me but not worth of congratulation either.

lol
so if i say you're good in an interview before a match and then call you a fuckin newbie afterwards its ok?
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
January 08 2010 09:57 GMT
#202
you just cant understand idra
maybe with your confidence in ego you will know future logically.
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
January 08 2010 10:40 GMT
#203
On January 08 2010 18:54 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 18:13 iG.ClouD wrote:
On January 08 2010 18:11 IdrA wrote:
hows he trying to create drama? you said you prepared better (which is obviously not the case as anyone who prepares for g5 at all knows hes completely willing to take risks, and the first thing you would have prepared for is probe cut timing rushes). you said he played bad, used risky builds, and got lucky. thats the exact same thing as calling someone a cheesy newbie.

Maybe in your vocabulary, in the pre match interview I said I respect G5 skills and I still do. That doesn't change the fact he played these 2 games bad, not as bad as me but not worth of congratulation either.

lol
so if i say you're good in an interview before a match and then call you a fuckin newbie afterwards its ok?

Yeah I know what a load of crap.
How is lieing in the post match interview mannered?
Oh you gave the cookie cutter "I respect my opponent" bullshit line before the game... that means you must be mannered?!
Surely shaking hands after a game is more about manners than that.

Clearly you don't respect your opponent because you made it quite clear you rate your skills much higher than his after the match... and many at TL agree with you.
Why not cut the crap.. you don't rate G5 that highly and you were suprised/upset that you didn't play your best and lost. At least I could respect someone who is honest.
Don't hate the player - Hate the game
Ricjames
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Czech Republic1047 Posts
January 08 2010 11:28 GMT
#204
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.
Brood War is the best RTS that has ever been created.
Moletrap
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
United States1297 Posts
January 08 2010 11:37 GMT
#205
Hate to derail the drama, and respect to ClouD, but WOOHOO G5! Congrats! Now go show FlaF who has beaten GGPlay

Btw, as a G5 fan and a PvP fan I couldn't pass up casting this series if anyone is interested. Even if you don't like my casting you can mute it and have VODs to watch if you're too lazy for replays, heh.

Part 1, follow video responses through the series:
aka Moletrap
Seku
Profile Joined December 2006
United States313 Posts
January 08 2010 11:39 GMT
#206
Thanks so much for making the games available spoiler free
Silentness
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2821 Posts
January 08 2010 12:09 GMT
#207
I understand where Cloud is getting at about not congratulating him on those games. I feel the same way if I lose because I was being retarded and my opponent was just "less retarded" that game. We both played like complete garbage, but he just so happen to won that game and you don't really want to say "GG" because it wasn't a good game the game was complete garbage, but I still say GG anyways because I'm trying to show proper respect and not come off as a douche.
GL HF... YOLO..lololollol.
Liquid`Ret
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Netherlands4511 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 13:10:34
January 08 2010 13:09 GMT
#208
It's sad this thread derailed like it did. Congrats on a fanastic win G5, ClouD is actually one of the best foreigners atm and has been practicing insanely much, anyone beating him is a great achievement.
Team Liquid
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 08 2010 13:15 GMT
#209
On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did. Congrats on a fanastic win G5, ClouD is actually one of the best foreigners atm and has been practicing insanely much, anyone beating him is a great achievement.


oh shit, i think i agrees with u. He has practice a lot tho, but one of the best foreigner?
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
January 08 2010 14:02 GMT
#210
On January 08 2010 22:15 NiGoL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did. Congrats on a fanastic win G5, ClouD is actually one of the best foreigners atm and has been practicing insanely much, anyone beating him is a great achievement.


oh shit, i think i agrees with u. He has practice a lot tho, but one of the best foreigner?

One of the best could be top 5, top 10 or even top 100, it depends on your definition..
wat
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 08 2010 14:54 GMT
#211
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
January 08 2010 15:28 GMT
#212
Well if he would play his A game.. definitely..
In those 2 particular games ? Not really..
hatred outlives the hateful
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
January 08 2010 15:30 GMT
#213
Who is FlaF?

Does anyone have a quick summary of his playstyle / strengths / weaknesses?
MC Fighting!~
Sc2ggRise
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States607 Posts
January 08 2010 15:50 GMT
#214
who cares what the BM loser has to say? He'll disappear next round anyway T_T

GG G5! remember me yet?? :D
Singu
Profile Joined March 2005
Netherlands90 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 15:59:41
January 08 2010 15:58 GMT
#215
Too bad Cloud lost. I like his style. Nevertheless, I like G5 his style too. So it will be an interesting outcome in the group. But as a Dutchman I have to root for Ret.

On a sidenote: you guys are blowing this way out of its proportion. I think all that Cloud is trying to say is that he is frustrated because he lost and because of that he cant congratulate G5 with his win. A bad decision imo but if he feels that way, let him be. He stated that he respected G5 as a person and as a BW player. So no need for drama I think.

Now please, back on topic gentlemen, discuss the games! =)
Ol'~sKool
rANDY
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United Kingdom748 Posts
January 08 2010 16:19 GMT
#216
On January 09 2010 00:30 ProTech_MediC wrote:
Who is FlaF?

Does anyone have a quick summary of his playstyle / strengths / weaknesses?


low income-cheese based zerg, think ultraling's understudy (unless he's changed much over the last ~6 months)
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 08 2010 16:27 GMT
#217
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?
Moderator
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
January 08 2010 17:03 GMT
#218
On January 09 2010 01:27 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?


While I don't agree with some peoples conception here that G5 was simply lucky that Cloud was playing bad (Which is kind of ridiculous), I don't see how one could argue that timing had nothing to do with G5's win. Here is a quote from the OP interview with G5:

"I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, whether it be him attacking me or me attacking him. Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count."

Unless I am not quite understanding what you mean by timing, it seems clear that G5 knew that he must attack at that time or lose the game [much like any timing attack, wait too long and it loses it's effectiveness].

NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 17:21:17
January 08 2010 17:19 GMT
#219
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25979 Posts
January 08 2010 17:54 GMT
#220
On January 09 2010 02:03 Salv wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 01:27 Chill wrote:
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?


While I don't agree with some peoples conception here that G5 was simply lucky that Cloud was playing bad (Which is kind of ridiculous), I don't see how one could argue that timing had nothing to do with G5's win. Here is a quote from the OP interview with G5:

"I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, whether it be him attacking me or me attacking him. Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count."

Unless I am not quite understanding what you mean by timing, it seems clear that G5 knew that he must attack at that time or lose the game [much like any timing attack, wait too long and it loses it's effectiveness].


Just because you use the word time, it's not timing. G5 crossed the bridge and Cloud ran into him. There's no timing there. Unless G5 specifically built that army for that moment, in which case I apologize, but I'm very confident he didn't and just decided it was time to move out.
Moderator
PhilGood2DaY
Profile Joined September 2005
Germany7424 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 18:30:55
January 08 2010 18:30 GMT
#221
On January 09 2010 02:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o






Stating the opinion that flaf has better chances winning vs g5 than vs cloud because u think clouds pvz is better than g5s is totally fine and makes sense

what a stupid response is this of yours ?

Seriously ?

hatred outlives the hateful
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 08 2010 18:36 GMT
#222
Wow MaGic~PhiL you finaly understand and explain one of my posts ^^
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
January 08 2010 18:41 GMT
#223
In this case you're both dumb: Skela wrote an incomprehensible post that in no way could be interpreted in saying that flaf has a better chance of winning against g5 than against cloud. MaGic~PhiL, it is not Nony's fault that he misunderstood SkelA. It if SkelA's fault for not having a good grasp of the English language. Calling him dumb for that is... dumb.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 08 2010 18:48 GMT
#224
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

Its obvious that i ment that G5 has lower chances of wining FLaf than Cloud.... Last few matches i saw Flaf wining both White-ra and Infernal which i consider them 2 of the best pvz on the nonkorean scene .
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
rANDY
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United Kingdom748 Posts
January 08 2010 18:53 GMT
#225
On January 09 2010 02:54 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 02:03 Salv wrote:
On January 09 2010 01:27 Chill wrote:
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?


While I don't agree with some peoples conception here that G5 was simply lucky that Cloud was playing bad (Which is kind of ridiculous), I don't see how one could argue that timing had nothing to do with G5's win. Here is a quote from the OP interview with G5:

"I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, whether it be him attacking me or me attacking him. Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count."

Unless I am not quite understanding what you mean by timing, it seems clear that G5 knew that he must attack at that time or lose the game [much like any timing attack, wait too long and it loses it's effectiveness].


Just because you use the word time, it's not timing. G5 crossed the bridge and Cloud ran into him. There's no timing there. Unless G5 specifically built that army for that moment, in which case I apologize, but I'm very confident he didn't and just decided it was time to move out.



his moveout timing was when his zeal speed finished
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
January 08 2010 19:02 GMT
#226
wow, motbob, chill out dude, no need to call people dumb. I perfectly understood what skela meant, i mean its not like he wrote something very difficult to understand. whether he`s right or not is another question.

regarding the games, I`m so sad that cloud lost and I hope that he really sticks around in the scene.
TT1
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada10004 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 19:21:54
January 08 2010 19:13 GMT
#227
On January 09 2010 02:54 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 02:03 Salv wrote:
On January 09 2010 01:27 Chill wrote:
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?


While I don't agree with some peoples conception here that G5 was simply lucky that Cloud was playing bad (Which is kind of ridiculous), I don't see how one could argue that timing had nothing to do with G5's win. Here is a quote from the OP interview with G5:

"I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, whether it be him attacking me or me attacking him. Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count."

Unless I am not quite understanding what you mean by timing, it seems clear that G5 knew that he must attack at that time or lose the game [much like any timing attack, wait too long and it loses it's effectiveness].


Just because you use the word time, it's not timing. G5 crossed the bridge and Cloud ran into him. There's no timing there. Unless G5 specifically built that army for that moment, in which case I apologize, but I'm very confident he didn't and just decided it was time to move out.


exactly, theres no timing involved unless g5 had a maphack to check out how much of cloud's storm upgrade was done in order to attack him.. he just happened to attack cloud when his storm tech wasnt done, when he started exping and while he had 4 goons out of position at his 2nd exp

its hard to have any type of timing in a pvp when the game turns into a macro game, especially on desti where probe cutting is pretty much useless (pvp timing/probe cuts are more important when the game is still 1base vs 1base and when u go for b.o's like a 1gate robo/exp/reav etc..)
ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate
Salv
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Canada3083 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 19:18:27
January 08 2010 19:17 GMT
#228
On January 09 2010 02:54 Chill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 02:03 Salv wrote:
On January 09 2010 01:27 Chill wrote:
On January 08 2010 20:28 Ricjames wrote:
Despite me being noob (10 years of bw) i have to say that G5 played badly with good micro and timing and Cloud played even worse. Didn't adapt to what G5 was doing and had awful positioning + micro. I still respect both players but Cloud a bit more, cause he really is better than G5 as many of us understand.

I would argue that timing had almost nothing to do with G5's win. Actually, let's go with nothing. I will argue it had actually nothing to do with the win. Where's G5 to comment?


While I don't agree with some peoples conception here that G5 was simply lucky that Cloud was playing bad (Which is kind of ridiculous), I don't see how one could argue that timing had nothing to do with G5's win. Here is a quote from the OP interview with G5:

"I cut probes throughout the game strategically to ensure that I would win the first decisive battle, whether it be him attacking me or me attacking him. Time passed long enough that I had to engage or I would lose due to his probe count."

Unless I am not quite understanding what you mean by timing, it seems clear that G5 knew that he must attack at that time or lose the game [much like any timing attack, wait too long and it loses it's effectiveness].


Just because you use the word time, it's not timing. G5 crossed the bridge and Cloud ran into him. There's no timing there. Unless G5 specifically built that army for that moment, in which case I apologize, but I'm very confident he didn't and just decided it was time to move out.


I shouldn't have bolded that sentence, it makes what I was trying to say confusing. What I mean was that G5 stated that he was cutting probes to gain an army advantage over Cloud. That advantage doesn't last for the whole game, there is a timing in which that cut will benefit G5 and allow him more units, however after that certain point, he would lose the advantage. G5 stated that he realized this timing was coming to a close, and that he attacked because of this.

IDK if that's considered timing by everyone, I would consider it so. It's much like any timing attack IMO, you are doing some build that will allow a window of opportunity in which you have the advantage, if you don't attack during that period, you will lose your advantage and gain a disadvantage. I suppose what's the debated is whether you would consider timing attacking at a very specific moment, and whether you would also considering timing to be a period of time in which the persons actions will give them the advantage.
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 08 2010 19:18 GMT
#229
Why keep discussing this when its over and done? Cloud lost anyways. pity for him that he lost and trained that much as he did. But now G5 won and went to the next round, cheer for him and just go on living. Just enjoy these TSL matchs like everyone else.
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
January 08 2010 19:22 GMT
#230
On January 09 2010 04:18 NiGoL wrote:
Why keep discussing this when its over and done?
Because its the only series that's been played out, so we're going to analyze the replays into the ground...



..and start plenty of drama while we're at it.
MC Fighting!~
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 08 2010 19:32 GMT
#231
On January 09 2010 04:22 ProTech_MediC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 04:18 NiGoL wrote:
Why keep discussing this when its over and done?
Because its the only series that's been played out, so we're going to analyze the replays into the ground...



..and start plenty of drama while we're at it.


yea "analyze" as much as u want, HE won and thats the end of it. Just be happy and move on like seriously? there are A LOT more games to be played in this tournament.
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
January 08 2010 19:35 GMT
#232
On January 09 2010 03:48 SkelA wrote:
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

Its obvious that i ment that G5 has lower chances of wining FLaf than Cloud.... Last few matches i saw Flaf wining both White-ra and Infernal which i consider them 2 of the best pvz on the nonkorean scene .

I didn't call you dumb in my post. This is getting pretty frustrating.
ModeratorGood content always wins.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 08 2010 19:39 GMT
#233
On January 09 2010 03:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 02:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o






Stating the opinion that flaf has better chances winning vs g5 than vs cloud because u think clouds pvz is better than g5s is totally fine and makes sense

what a stupid response is this of yours ?

Seriously ?


as motbob pointed out, that isnt what skela wrote. i just read and responded to what he wrote. and why do you always have this disbelief? seriously? did you even watch the replay? what a stupid response is this of yours? give us a break.

On January 09 2010 03:48 SkelA wrote:
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

who are you talking to? nobody called you dumb. he called magic~phil dumb. just give up kid

On January 09 2010 04:02 mdb wrote:I perfectly understood what skela meant, i mean its not like he wrote something very difficult to understand.

in skela's sentence, if you replace "good" with "better" then it would make sense. huge difference in meaning between those two and there's never any instance where one can mean the other. so i dont see how it's so easy to understand. but if you read skela's post history, you'd familiarize yourself with his habit of writing nonsense. so you wouldnt think "oh he accidentally didnt use a comparative" but rather "where are some pins so i can gouge out my eyes"
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
win8282
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Korea (South)454 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 20:06:07
January 08 2010 19:50 GMT
#234
Yay Drama! Gotta love the italianos. They get pissed off so easily. Carlo is no exception, however good he is at SCBW. Anyways, I can understand both sides of the argument. Cloud is extremely disappointed that he lost to something he could've easily beaten had he made better choices, though he must accept, it's his fault, not G5's.


User was temp banned for this post.
mdb
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
Bulgaria4059 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 19:53:14
January 08 2010 19:52 GMT
#235
well, macedonian and bulgarian languages are the same, so I guess thats why, the way he worded that sentence makes perfect sense to me. but nevertheless i still think its pretty clear what skela meant : cloud pvz > g5 pvz => flaf`s z has better chances against g5, rather than cloud.

But, after all its not that important, I feel dumb for arguing about this ^^

gl tomorrow nony, i`m rooting for you.
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 08 2010 19:53 GMT
#236
On January 09 2010 03:41 motbob wrote:
In this case you're both dumb: Skela wrote an incomprehensible post that in no way could be interpreted in saying that flaf has a better chance of winning against g5 than against cloud. MaGic~PhiL, it is not Nony's fault that he misunderstood SkelA. It if SkelA's fault for not having a good grasp of the English language. Calling him dumb for that is... dumb.


Ok Im blind here or what???? You are calling either ME or Nony dumb so pls explain because my english skills are bad as you said yourself.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
motbob
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States12546 Posts
January 08 2010 19:56 GMT
#237
oh whoops that was meant to be a throwaway joke but yeah i guess I did call you dumb. Sorry!
ModeratorGood content always wins.
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
January 08 2010 20:22 GMT
#238
On January 08 2010 07:32 ceaRshaf wrote:
This is the higher level for foreign.!

Well, then I had too high expectations I guess. This was terrible play by Cloud. It seems he just focused 100% on macro and didn't even watch the battles. He never even stormed many templars even though he had tons of energy and storm, annoyed me a lot. Felt like he surrendered before the game was over.

As for G5's play, well, I guess it was the perfect counter to Cloud's type of play - not giving him time. Still remains to see how good he is.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 08 2010 20:37 GMT
#239
i can only hope a few more matches produce as much discussion as this one! :D
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36374 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 20:51:27
January 08 2010 20:51 GMT
#240
On January 09 2010 05:22 Freezard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 07:32 ceaRshaf wrote:
This is the higher level for foreign.!

Well, then I had too high expectations I guess. This was terrible play by Cloud. It seems he just focused 100% on macro and didn't even watch the battles. He never even stormed many templars even though he had tons of energy and storm, annoyed me a lot. Felt like he surrendered before the game was over.

As for G5's play, well, I guess it was the perfect counter to Cloud's type of play - not giving him time. Still remains to see how good he is.

I think its more indicative of the pressure of the moment rather than just lack of ability, obviously Cloud doesn't usually forget storm in practice or something.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Ilikestarcraft
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Korea (South)17726 Posts
January 08 2010 20:52 GMT
#241
your games vs idra will produce more than that
"Nana is a goddess. Or at very least, Nana is my goddess." - KazeHydra
OhThatDang
Profile Joined August 2004
United States4685 Posts
January 08 2010 20:53 GMT
#242
On January 09 2010 04:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 03:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
On January 09 2010 02:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o






Stating the opinion that flaf has better chances winning vs g5 than vs cloud because u think clouds pvz is better than g5s is totally fine and makes sense

what a stupid response is this of yours ?

Seriously ?


as motbob pointed out, that isnt what skela wrote. i just read and responded to what he wrote. and why do you always have this disbelief? seriously? did you even watch the replay? what a stupid response is this of yours? give us a break.

Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 03:48 SkelA wrote:
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

who are you talking to? nobody called you dumb. he called magic~phil dumb. just give up kid

Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 04:02 mdb wrote:I perfectly understood what skela meant, i mean its not like he wrote something very difficult to understand.

in skela's sentence, if you replace "good" with "better" then it would make sense. huge difference in meaning between those two and there's never any instance where one can mean the other. so i dont see how it's so easy to understand. but if you read skela's post history, you'd familiarize yourself with his habit of writing nonsense. so you wouldnt think "oh he accidentally didnt use a comparative" but rather "where are some pins so i can gouge out my eyes"


Lol is there really an argument over what was said....

Its simply meaning that Because cloud has a better pvz than G5 in his opinion, he believes that G5 is going to lose the match. That's all that skela says
troi oi thang map nai!!!
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
January 08 2010 20:58 GMT
#243
I agree that my english is not that good but I think anyone with half a brain and a little logic can understand my post... -_-
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
Chaos
Profile Joined July 2009
United States772 Posts
January 08 2010 21:00 GMT
#244
On January 09 2010 05:22 Freezard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 08 2010 07:32 ceaRshaf wrote:
This is the higher level for foreign.!

Well, then I had too high expectations I guess. This was terrible play by Cloud. It seems he just focused 100% on macro and didn't even watch the battles. He never even stormed many templars even though he had tons of energy and storm, annoyed me a lot. Felt like he surrendered before the game was over.

As for G5's play, well, I guess it was the perfect counter to Cloud's type of play - not giving him time. Still remains to see how good he is.


When I watched game 1 (assuming thats the one you are talking about) storm wasn't finished when he got attacked.
FruitMarket
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-08 21:15:13
January 08 2010 21:11 GMT
#245
On January 09 2010 05:53 OhThatDang wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 04:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 09 2010 03:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
On January 09 2010 02:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o






Stating the opinion that flaf has better chances winning vs g5 than vs cloud because u think clouds pvz is better than g5s is totally fine and makes sense

what a stupid response is this of yours ?

Seriously ?


as motbob pointed out, that isnt what skela wrote. i just read and responded to what he wrote. and why do you always have this disbelief? seriously? did you even watch the replay? what a stupid response is this of yours? give us a break.

On January 09 2010 03:48 SkelA wrote:
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

who are you talking to? nobody called you dumb. he called magic~phil dumb. just give up kid

On January 09 2010 04:02 mdb wrote:I perfectly understood what skela meant, i mean its not like he wrote something very difficult to understand.

in skela's sentence, if you replace "good" with "better" then it would make sense. huge difference in meaning between those two and there's never any instance where one can mean the other. so i dont see how it's so easy to understand. but if you read skela's post history, you'd familiarize yourself with his habit of writing nonsense. so you wouldnt think "oh he accidentally didnt use a comparative" but rather "where are some pins so i can gouge out my eyes"


Lol is there really an argument over what was said....

Its simply meaning that Because cloud has a better pvz than G5 in his opinion, he believes that G5 is going to lose the match. That's all that skela says

What are you saying differently than what's already been said? What's the point of your post?

See how PvP makes everybody crazy and stupid. Surely everyone can empathize with Cloud now that we see how crazy people post after just watching PvP, not even playing it. Except me of course ezly
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
Trezeguet
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States2656 Posts
January 08 2010 22:15 GMT
#246
On January 09 2010 06:11 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 05:53 OhThatDang wrote:
On January 09 2010 04:39 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 09 2010 03:30 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
On January 09 2010 02:19 Liquid`NonY wrote:
On January 08 2010 23:54 SkelA wrote:
Ok there is a good chance of Flaf wining next match Cloud pvz alot better than G5.

it doesn't matter how good cloud's pvz is

On January 08 2010 22:09 ret wrote:
It's sad this thread derailed like it did.

i thought it has stayed on topic :o






Stating the opinion that flaf has better chances winning vs g5 than vs cloud because u think clouds pvz is better than g5s is totally fine and makes sense

what a stupid response is this of yours ?

Seriously ?


as motbob pointed out, that isnt what skela wrote. i just read and responded to what he wrote. and why do you always have this disbelief? seriously? did you even watch the replay? what a stupid response is this of yours? give us a break.

On January 09 2010 03:48 SkelA wrote:
Yea english is not my first language you calling me dumb because of that? Let me see you understand my native language then eh.. I asure you wont understand a word does this makes you a retard then ?

who are you talking to? nobody called you dumb. he called magic~phil dumb. just give up kid

On January 09 2010 04:02 mdb wrote:I perfectly understood what skela meant, i mean its not like he wrote something very difficult to understand.

in skela's sentence, if you replace "good" with "better" then it would make sense. huge difference in meaning between those two and there's never any instance where one can mean the other. so i dont see how it's so easy to understand. but if you read skela's post history, you'd familiarize yourself with his habit of writing nonsense. so you wouldnt think "oh he accidentally didnt use a comparative" but rather "where are some pins so i can gouge out my eyes"


Lol is there really an argument over what was said....

Its simply meaning that Because cloud has a better pvz than G5 in his opinion, he believes that G5 is going to lose the match. That's all that skela says

What are you saying differently than what's already been said? What's the point of your post?

See how PvP makes everybody crazy and stupid. Surely everyone can empathize with Cloud now that we see how crazy people post after just watching PvP, not even playing it. Except me of course ezly

This makes me hope there are no TvTs.
SoL[9]
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Portugal1370 Posts
January 08 2010 22:40 GMT
#247
Damm and i was thinking that gg.net threads was funnys this is away better ^^


I Can Fly...
Freezard
Profile Blog Joined April 2007
Sweden1010 Posts
January 08 2010 22:57 GMT
#248
On January 09 2010 06:00 Chaos- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 05:22 Freezard wrote:
On January 08 2010 07:32 ceaRshaf wrote:
This is the higher level for foreign.!

Well, then I had too high expectations I guess. This was terrible play by Cloud. It seems he just focused 100% on macro and didn't even watch the battles. He never even stormed many templars even though he had tons of energy and storm, annoyed me a lot. Felt like he surrendered before the game was over.

As for G5's play, well, I guess it was the perfect counter to Cloud's type of play - not giving him time. Still remains to see how good he is.


When I watched game 1 (assuming thats the one you are talking about) storm wasn't finished when he got attacked.

No I was talking about game 2. In the end I saw 3-4 templars and since he had speedlots I really thought he had storm as well.

But now when I watch the replay I see he canceled storm 5 seconds after he started it... too bad,
would have won him the game. Weird decisions anyway:

-upgrade legs as soon as citadel finishes when he doesn't use the speedlots anyway (which delayed storm/dt)
-morph 2 archons when G5 didn't even have citadel and just ~5 zealots
-move out without observer when G5's observer sees everything

Then Cloud comes here and comments about G5 not scouting... dude, he had an observer on your forces for ages whereas you had nothing in his base.
Mentos
Profile Joined August 2003
United Kingdom203 Posts
January 08 2010 23:07 GMT
#249
LaLuSh, yeah Cloud's build was chosen pretty well given the map (game1) and the match up, and yes he did execute it correctly, but from your posts it seems like it's some kind of an achievement ... it's not. No offence but even a properly trained monkey can execute a build order, what matters is what you do with it, how you react to your opponent and how you control everything. What matters is how you >play< the game, not how good you are at theorycraft or practice. Practice means nothing if all it does for you is put you in tunnel vision mode, it means nothing if you prepare for a handful of scenarios and can't react if something doesn't go your way.
Splitting your army to look for drops that you're not even sure exist when you can clearly see that your opponent is going for all in push is a rookie mistake, so forgive me if I laugh at Cloud's claims that his prep was better.
I will also laugh at his overall behaviour in this thread, it's not a losers' place to say that his opponent played very simple or risky rounds, or this or that, his place is analyzing his mistakes and learning from them, nothing more, nothing less. That's the kind of mentality someone who truly wishes to excel at his game should show.
So no, I don't agree that G5's play was bad or even average, in fact nearly all his decisions were dead on, his control was also very good and he deserved to win hands down. Both players can always arrange a rematch if Cloud can't hold down his nerves in high stakes games, my money will still be on G5.
Texas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
Germany2388 Posts
January 08 2010 23:49 GMT
#250
g5's auto-struggle with macro will prevent him from going far in this tournament i guess.
FakeSteve[TPR]
Profile Blog Joined July 2003
Valhalla18444 Posts
January 09 2010 00:55 GMT
#251
let's take this to the next level!!!!!!

hey liquid`nony!! i do not think that you are a very good protoss player at all!!! perhaps you should try knitting instead!!!
Moderatormy tatsu loops r fuckin nice
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
January 09 2010 01:08 GMT
#252
LOL FAKESTEVE?!
how could u say it like that
R
O
F
L
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
Cambium
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States16368 Posts
January 09 2010 01:45 GMT
#253
Congrats G5, good luck with next round!
When you want something, all the universe conspires in helping you to achieve it.
Pure.Freedom
Profile Joined January 2010
United States114 Posts
January 09 2010 03:40 GMT
#254
Regardless of how Cloud played (obviously not up to his full capability), i believe you have to give credit to G5. Even if G5's play did not impress you, just remember that a. this is a foreigner tournament, not a korean one, and b. G5 made the top 48 on the TSL ladder, and has now moved on to round two in qualifiers... that takes skill

So, congratulations G5
What you need to do is be thankful for the life you got, you know what im sayin? ... stop lookin at what you ain't got ... start bein thankful for what you do got.
NonY
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
8748 Posts
January 09 2010 04:55 GMT
#255
On January 09 2010 09:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
let's take this to the next level!!!!!!

hey liquid`nony!! i do not think that you are a very good protoss player at all!!! perhaps you should try knitting instead!!!

underwater knitting is where it's at
"Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'
CakeOrI)eath
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States327 Posts
January 09 2010 06:59 GMT
#256
After downloading the replay files I really want G5 to at least beat FlaF and then take Ret to game 5 just so the file can be named:
G5_G5_vs_Ret.rep
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
Epicfailguy
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Norway893 Posts
January 09 2010 22:56 GMT
#257
If it really gets that bad during tournaments, Cloud, you should have a beer or two.
Seriously, I really think that would help.

As for not shaking hands when you play shit, well that's just silly and I hope you'll understand that...although I'm not surprised since italians arent very nice people, no offence.
Brett
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
Australia3820 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-01-10 01:54:33
January 10 2010 01:54 GMT
#258
On January 09 2010 13:55 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2010 09:55 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote:
let's take this to the next level!!!!!!

hey liquid`nony!! i do not think that you are a very good protoss player at all!!! perhaps you should try knitting instead!!!

underwater knitting is where it's at

Basket weaving I should think.
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
January 10 2010 09:10 GMT
#259
Cloud. I agree with you. I think even by looking at your base design (eg. look at destination game, clouds base vs g5's base, g5's is messy) you can tell who is more prepared. In the end all the theory/knowledge doesn't count if you do not apply it, you failed to have storm, you lost. Sorry. Next time with storm you will win. That is it. No second chances this time bro. I think you are great though, just letting you know that there are mistakes you made.
www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
anotak
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States1537 Posts
January 11 2010 02:05 GMT
#260
i find it interesting, starcraft is the only competitive gaming community i have ever seen where a top player can lose a match (not just here, many other examples)... then "he played so bad, i expected him to play smart and this is why i lost he is a bad player" instead of realizing that he got outplayed based on that very expectation right there.

and being nervous isn't an excuse, that's part of the skill in any tournament game.
Myxomatosis
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States2392 Posts
January 11 2010 17:27 GMT
#261
On January 07 2010 21:11 IdrA wrote:
this is the person who put shine[kal] in 4th place in a ranking of starcraft players. you cant really expect him to understand anything at all.

hahaha
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
January 11 2010 17:54 GMT
#262
On January 10 2010 18:10 alexpnd wrote:
Cloud. I agree with you. I think even by looking at your base design (eg. look at destination game, clouds base vs g5's base, g5's is messy) you can tell who is more prepared. In the end all the theory/knowledge doesn't count if you do not apply it, you failed to have storm, you lost. Sorry. Next time with storm you will win. That is it. No second chances this time bro. I think you are great though, just letting you know that there are mistakes you made.

PvP is probably the P MU where building placement is the least important of all. If he was planning on a 2 base semi-allin probe cut build, he didn't need to fit in 20 Gateways. This is a silly thing to say. Maybe G5 figured that other things would be more important to prepare for than making your base tidy? Maybe he macroes better when his base is slightly messy?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
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