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Do cookies and things not serve as a "this user has been here before" mechanism?
E.G: New visitors can be given a 2 second selection as to which content they want to view and further customise it later.
So, new visitor clicks on TL, gets "Which games do you wish to see content for?" user clicks dota, smash. TL settings are set accordingly, same crap for new accounts.
Bit easier then new websites for everybody. Some of us don't follow the other scenes so closely but like to read articles or click on streams every now and then if something catches our eye. Now we don't get that option.
Either way, dont really care.
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Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money.
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I used to be able to see links to Starcraft, Dota, and Hearthstone all on the same website. Now I have to swtich back and forth between three just to get an idea of what tournaments are going on or who's playing. I don't mind that there are game specific websites but PLEASE let us have the option to put Dota and Hearthstone back on our teamliquid.net stream list!
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If any generic news site can cover so many different categories of news, why can't an e-sports news site do the same? I realize this is simplifying things as a generic news site will not have as large of a community or subforums for discussion. But really, I can't think of any good thing to come out of this. I think part of the disappointment is that I would have expected better from you guys.
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Dota is no longer TL worthy! I win!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money.
"Cold numbers and money" definitely factor in as they will in any business that needs to pay bills, but it's both close-minded and ignorant to say that that's what the decision was all about - it wasn't. In all the discussion we had in staff forums, very little of it was about maximizing profits at all - rather, we focused on other aspects that I and several other staff members have detailed in this thread that everyone felt would create a better experience for the majority of users, both new and old.
And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. You may feel that "dual" fans - those who watch both Dota 2 and SC2 - are in the majority, but in my experience that's completely untrue. The people that post the most - the oldest members - may be fans of multiple games, but the majority of new users come for one game and stay for one game, uninterested in the others. That you would imply that everyone on TL loves BW and SC2 and Dota and LoL alike is interesting, because that's not what I've seen at all.
On May 13 2014 04:36 love9n wrote:
If any generic news site can cover so many different categories of news, why can't an e-sports news site do the same? I realize this is simplifying things as a generic news site will not have as large of a community or subforums for discussion. But really, I can't think of any good thing to come out of this. I think part of the disappointment is that I would have expected better from you guys.
Any generic news site can cover a lot of different categories, but they have a different set-up from TL designed with that purpose in mind. What would you say if Footballnews.com (I don't know if that's a thing at all) suddenly started covering swimming, basketball and hockey as well? The analogy isn't perfect, granted, but TL was originally an SC-centric site and that's what many people still associated the site with, long after TL expanded into Dota.
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On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable.
The shitstorm was because TL made it show for everyone, to promote TL Dota content specifically and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters TL implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the TL community.
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Well after some hands-on experience I have to say I dislike having 2 separate forums, at least in the form they are implemented now. I use TL as a starting point of all Interwebs activity and a hub for all the smaller communities I enjoy reading about. Sidebar customisation did wonders for my TL browsing experience as it eliminated need to use inferior custom scripts that provided the same features beforehand.
In the new setup however I have Doto General with a fancy calendar and sections that were already available in the sub-forum (at the cost of being completely disconnected from rest of TL) and the "mangled" remains of old TL without anything that will keep me browsing on TL.net for longer periods of time (as opposed to short burst of activity). This is where subforum format worked wonders as long as you were aware of how you can customise your TL experience. Much of the downsides I feel would disappear if sidebar customisation worked as someone suggested earler: letting you play mix-and-match between sections across all sister sites and main TL.net. There could be technical difficulties in implementing this solution, but I'm convinced that it would let people like me use TL like we had before, while still giving you the full benefit of having separate sites.
I definitely see potential in new TLDota, but I equally see how it can drive hub-users away from TL. It kind of feels like a car suddenly undergoing mitosis, adding shiny LEDs and cardboard spoilers but forgetting to add a wheel and an engine, while leaving the parent car without a body 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 13 2014 04:55 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. The shitstorm was because you made it show for everyone, to promote your Dota content and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters you implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the community.
Indeed, but it certainly displayed that a fairly large amount of regular TL visitors (those that tend to post in articles) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Dota (more than one person got really hostile about it), and that was just a single article (something that was repeatedly clarified). Also, the nature of the article (This is how Dota 2 works, for a non-Dota 2 fan) would have made it very silly to hide it from the other sections, because the Dota 2 fans already knew how the game works. There was an idea to make a similar one but for Dota -> SC2, but it never happened. Even setting that incident aside, try mentioning Dota or LoL in an LR thread and see if you won't get at least a few replies telling you how shitty Mobas are or how easy the genre is. Try an SPL LR thread for example. It happens almost every week.
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On May 13 2014 04:35 TheRealPaciFist wrote:
[..] PLEASE let us have the option to put Dota [..] back on our teamliquid.net stream list!
I'd like to echo this part. Getting a quick overview of streams up across the board from just going on TL (like I've been able to for a while now) would be preferable.
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On May 13 2014 05:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:55 vrok wrote:On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. The shitstorm was because you made it show for everyone, to promote your Dota content and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters you implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the community. Indeed, but it certainly displayed that a fairly large amount of regular TL visitors (those that tend to post in articles) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Dota (more than one person got really hostile about it), and that was just a single article (something that was repeatedly clarified). Also, the nature of the article (This is how Dota 2 works, for a non-Dota 2 fan) would have made it very silly to hide it from the other sections, because the Dota 2 fans already knew how the game works. There was an idea to make a similar one but for Dota -> SC2, but it never happened. Even setting that incident aside, try mentioning Dota or LoL in an LR thread and see if you won't get at least a few replies telling you how shitty Mobas are or how easy the genre is. Try an SPL LR thread for example. It happens almost every week.
Hide from what sections? Dota content should be flagged as Dota content. Dota curious visitors wouldn't hide Dota in the first place. Filtering it out is a clear statement of disinterest. A statement that was thoroughly ignored, for potential new Dota clicks, hence the shitstorm.
LRs are the homes of fanatics, SPL more so than most. Talking about other games in an LR thread is pretty disrespectful to begin with (unless it's one of those hilarious GOM mobile game ads). Especially with all the 'ded gaem' tards floating around.
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surprisingly, on the internet, there are trolls.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 13 2014 05:09 vrok wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 05:00 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:55 vrok wrote:On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. The shitstorm was because you made it show for everyone, to promote your Dota content and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters you implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the community. Indeed, but it certainly displayed that a fairly large amount of regular TL visitors (those that tend to post in articles) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Dota (more than one person got really hostile about it), and that was just a single article (something that was repeatedly clarified). Also, the nature of the article (This is how Dota 2 works, for a non-Dota 2 fan) would have made it very silly to hide it from the other sections, because the Dota 2 fans already knew how the game works. There was an idea to make a similar one but for Dota -> SC2, but it never happened. Even setting that incident aside, try mentioning Dota or LoL in an LR thread and see if you won't get at least a few replies telling you how shitty Mobas are or how easy the genre is. Try an SPL LR thread for example. It happens almost every week. Hide from what sections? Dota content should be flagged as Dota content. Dota curious visitors wouldn't hide Dota in the first place. Filtering it out is a clear statement of disinterest. A statement that was thoroughly ignored, for potential new Dota clicks, hence the shitstorm. LRs are the homes of fanatics, SPL more so than most. Talking about other games in an LR thread is pretty disrespectful to begin with (unless it's one of those hilarious GOM mobile game ads). Especially with all the 'ded gaem' tards floating around.
The Viewers' Guide was an attempt to pique interest among those that didn't know the game or hadn't really watched it because they didn't understand what was going on. It was a one-off occurance that was never going to be repeated and it was aimed specifically at potentially teaching a few people who might be interested but unaware of how the game worked. To let it be filtered out with the other Dota content would have been counterproductive, because the article would not have reached its intended audience. Exactly the same would have happened with a SC2 Viewers' Guide. You may think it was unfair or stupid, but you can't reach an audience if the audience literally cannot see your stuff.
As for the second part, it was merely an example. Most SC2 threads that progress beyond a few pages or discuss game design are usually bound to eventually touch upon one or the other, and not rarely are those posts that do overwhelmingly negative. I don't know how often you browse the forums, but it was always pretty clear that the two fan bases were at each other's throats a lot of the time when discussion got heated. No matter how you choose to explain it, you're far off base if you mean to say that there weren't a lot of shitting on one game or the other between the two fan bases from time to time. That alone may not be enough of a reason to justify separating the two games entirely, but that's the reality of it.
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On May 13 2014 05:17 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 05:09 vrok wrote:On May 13 2014 05:00 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:55 vrok wrote:On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. The shitstorm was because you made it show for everyone, to promote your Dota content and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters you implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the community. Indeed, but it certainly displayed that a fairly large amount of regular TL visitors (those that tend to post in articles) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Dota (more than one person got really hostile about it), and that was just a single article (something that was repeatedly clarified). Also, the nature of the article (This is how Dota 2 works, for a non-Dota 2 fan) would have made it very silly to hide it from the other sections, because the Dota 2 fans already knew how the game works. There was an idea to make a similar one but for Dota -> SC2, but it never happened. Even setting that incident aside, try mentioning Dota or LoL in an LR thread and see if you won't get at least a few replies telling you how shitty Mobas are or how easy the genre is. Try an SPL LR thread for example. It happens almost every week. Hide from what sections? Dota content should be flagged as Dota content. Dota curious visitors wouldn't hide Dota in the first place. Filtering it out is a clear statement of disinterest. A statement that was thoroughly ignored, for potential new Dota clicks, hence the shitstorm. LRs are the homes of fanatics, SPL more so than most. Talking about other games in an LR thread is pretty disrespectful to begin with (unless it's one of those hilarious GOM mobile game ads). Especially with all the 'ded gaem' tards floating around. The Viewers' Guide was an attempt to pique interest among those that didn't know the game or hadn't really watched it because they didn't understand what was going on. It was a one-off occurance that was never going to be repeated and it was aimed specifically at potentially teaching a few people who might be interested but unaware of how the game worked. To let it be filtered out with the other Dota content would have been counterproductive, because the article would not have reached its intended audience. Exactly the same would have happened with a SC2 Viewers' Guide. You may think it was unfair or stupid, but you can't reach an audience if the audience literally cannot see your stuff. As for the second part, it was merely an example. Most SC2 threads that progress beyond a few pages or discuss game design are usually bound to eventually touch upon one or the other, and not rarely are those posts that do overwhelmingly negative. I don't know how often you browse the forums, but it was always pretty clear that the two fan bases were at each other's throats a lot of the time when discussion got heated. No matter how you choose to explain it, you're far off base if you mean to say that there weren't a lot of shitting on one game or the other between the two fan bases from time to time. That alone may not be enough of a reason to justify separating the two games entirely, but that's the reality of it.
Several high ranking officials have already stated in this very thread that most TL users do not use the filters or even know they exist. Unless the "intended audience" was people who never wanted anything to do with Dota, and went out of their way to ignore it, this defeats the entire argument.
And yes, people who enjoy different kinds of games don't want the 'people who are wrong' to dictate to them what makes a game good or not. Not exactly rocket science. I wouldn't want the input of Gears of Wars fans saying "this game should do this more like Gears of War does" either in that particular subject. 
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On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. "Cold numbers and money" definitely factor in as they will in any business that needs to pay bills, but it's both close-minded and ignorant to say that that's what the decision was all about - it wasn't. In all the discussion we had in staff forums, very little of it was about maximizing profits at all - rather, we focused on other aspects that I and several other staff members have detailed in this thread that everyone felt would create a better experience for the majority of users, both new and old. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. You may feel that "dual" fans - those who watch both Dota 2 and SC2 - are in the majority, but in my experience that's completely untrue. The people that post the most - the oldest members - may be fans of multiple games, but the majority of new users come for one game and stay for one game, uninterested in the others. That you would imply that everyone on TL loves BW and SC2 and Dota and LoL alike is interesting, because that's not what I've seen at all. Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:36 love9n wrote:
If any generic news site can cover so many different categories of news, why can't an e-sports news site do the same? I realize this is simplifying things as a generic news site will not have as large of a community or subforums for discussion. But really, I can't think of any good thing to come out of this. I think part of the disappointment is that I would have expected better from you guys. Any generic news site can cover a lot of different categories, but they have a different set-up from TL designed with that purpose in mind. What would you say if Footballnews.com (I don't know if that's a thing at all) suddenly started covering swimming, basketball and hockey as well? The analogy isn't perfect, granted, but TL was originally an SC-centric site and that's what many people still associated the site with, long after TL expanded into Dota.
I'm not implying all people on Liquid like all games. I'm implying that I can write a blog on TL and I can get responses from people that identify with me even though they happen to like Dota and I happen to like Starcraft. TL hasn't survived by catering to every random 12 year old who can't handle other games existing, yet now there's a big MOBA bubble let's throw these values overboard and get a piece of the pie. Let's ignore what makes TL unique and be another random Dota site.
On May 13 2014 05:00 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:55 vrok wrote:On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. The shitstorm was because you made it show for everyone, to promote your Dota content and get it more clicks, despite people's filter preferences, filters you implemented, specifying that they wished to have no part in it. It had nothing to do with hating the Dota section of the community. Indeed, but it certainly displayed that a fairly large amount of regular TL visitors (those that tend to post in articles) wanted absolutely nothing to do with Dota (more than one person got really hostile about it), and that was just a single article (something that was repeatedly clarified). Also, the nature of the article (This is how Dota 2 works, for a non-Dota 2 fan) would have made it very silly to hide it from the other sections, because the Dota 2 fans already knew how the game works. There was an idea to make a similar one but for Dota -> SC2, but it never happened. Even setting that incident aside, try mentioning Dota or LoL in an LR thread and see if you won't get at least a few replies telling you how shitty Mobas are or how easy the genre is. Try an SPL LR thread for example. It happens almost every week.
So what? It's the internet, people are going to disagree and argue. Do you really think that if you separate Dota 2 players from SC2 players they're not going to find internal differences to argue about?
As if the BW core TL was founded on all loved SC2, as if there weren't elephants in the room then. But you'd be hard pressed to find people who think TeamLiquid would've been better off today if LiquidSC2.net had been a thing. Both sites would probably barely exist today. Liquid means something as a brand, it's kind of ignorant to think chopping it in pieces will be fine.
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Lalalaland34486 Posts
On May 13 2014 05:32 Saechiis wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. "Cold numbers and money" definitely factor in as they will in any business that needs to pay bills, but it's both close-minded and ignorant to say that that's what the decision was all about - it wasn't. In all the discussion we had in staff forums, very little of it was about maximizing profits at all - rather, we focused on other aspects that I and several other staff members have detailed in this thread that everyone felt would create a better experience for the majority of users, both new and old. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. You may feel that "dual" fans - those who watch both Dota 2 and SC2 - are in the majority, but in my experience that's completely untrue. The people that post the most - the oldest members - may be fans of multiple games, but the majority of new users come for one game and stay for one game, uninterested in the others. That you would imply that everyone on TL loves BW and SC2 and Dota and LoL alike is interesting, because that's not what I've seen at all. On May 13 2014 04:36 love9n wrote:
If any generic news site can cover so many different categories of news, why can't an e-sports news site do the same? I realize this is simplifying things as a generic news site will not have as large of a community or subforums for discussion. But really, I can't think of any good thing to come out of this. I think part of the disappointment is that I would have expected better from you guys. Any generic news site can cover a lot of different categories, but they have a different set-up from TL designed with that purpose in mind. What would you say if Footballnews.com (I don't know if that's a thing at all) suddenly started covering swimming, basketball and hockey as well? The analogy isn't perfect, granted, but TL was originally an SC-centric site and that's what many people still associated the site with, long after TL expanded into Dota. I'm not implying all people on Liquid like all games. I'm implying that I can write a blog on TL and I can get responses from people that identify with me even though they happen to like Dota and I happen to like Starcraft. TL hasn't survived by catering to every random 12 year old who can't handle other games existing, yet now there's a big MOBA bubble let's throw these values overboard and get a piece of the pie. Let's ignore what makes TL unique and be another random Dota site.
Regarding this, if you read Nazgul's blog you'll see that we've taken on board all the feedback regarding shared community forums. We were on the fence before and decided to hold back at that time, but the feedback is pretty clear on this and it is now our priority to fix this issue.
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this whole thread and the staff posts in it remind me of the esl employees regarding the 100k winner takes it all iem.
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On May 13 2014 05:37 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 13 2014 05:32 Saechiis wrote:On May 13 2014 04:50 Zealously wrote:On May 13 2014 04:19 Saechiis wrote:
Not going to lie, as a person who's been visiting TL for years this feels like a fuck you. We already have you and you'll probably stick around even if we make things more uncomfortable for you, but if you leave that's fine as we expect to have more new users.
Awful decision to focus on singular games rather than on the fact that we're all people who like to play games and be competetive. Especially when it's largely a decision based on cold numbers and money. "Cold numbers and money" definitely factor in as they will in any business that needs to pay bills, but it's both close-minded and ignorant to say that that's what the decision was all about - it wasn't. In all the discussion we had in staff forums, very little of it was about maximizing profits at all - rather, we focused on other aspects that I and several other staff members have detailed in this thread that everyone felt would create a better experience for the majority of users, both new and old. And you may say that "we're all people who like to play games", and while that may be true it doesn't paint the image fairly. There was and is a lot of animosity between the SC2 fan base, for some reason, and the fan bases of Dota 2 / LoL. Remember when there was one single Dota 2 Beginners' Guide up around TI3 last year that showed up for everyone? The shitstorm was unbelievable. You may feel that "dual" fans - those who watch both Dota 2 and SC2 - are in the majority, but in my experience that's completely untrue. The people that post the most - the oldest members - may be fans of multiple games, but the majority of new users come for one game and stay for one game, uninterested in the others. That you would imply that everyone on TL loves BW and SC2 and Dota and LoL alike is interesting, because that's not what I've seen at all. On May 13 2014 04:36 love9n wrote:
If any generic news site can cover so many different categories of news, why can't an e-sports news site do the same? I realize this is simplifying things as a generic news site will not have as large of a community or subforums for discussion. But really, I can't think of any good thing to come out of this. I think part of the disappointment is that I would have expected better from you guys. Any generic news site can cover a lot of different categories, but they have a different set-up from TL designed with that purpose in mind. What would you say if Footballnews.com (I don't know if that's a thing at all) suddenly started covering swimming, basketball and hockey as well? The analogy isn't perfect, granted, but TL was originally an SC-centric site and that's what many people still associated the site with, long after TL expanded into Dota. I'm not implying all people on Liquid like all games. I'm implying that I can write a blog on TL and I can get responses from people that identify with me even though they happen to like Dota and I happen to like Starcraft. TL hasn't survived by catering to every random 12 year old who can't handle other games existing, yet now there's a big MOBA bubble let's throw these values overboard and get a piece of the pie. Let's ignore what makes TL unique and be another random Dota site. Regarding this, if you read Nazgul's blog you'll see that we've taken on board all the feedback regarding shared community forums. We were on the fence before and decided to hold back at that time, but the feedback is pretty clear on this and it is now our priority to fix this issue.
Good to hear. I'm not opposed to having a nice pure Dota 2 page, however I am strongly opposed to separating forums and also to removing the ability to *opt in* to seeing both SC2 and Dota2 content on teamliquid.net. It really shouldn't be that hard to publish articles to both sites and the Dota 2 filter could just default to Off.
Also, saying that TL.net is just thought of as being a Starcraft site (earlier posts) is naive. Liquid has always felt like more than that and people will learn over time. Switching the main site to *actually* being Starcraft-only again isn't going to help it's image.
LiquidDota.com itself is very nice looking! Great features - it just feels like content is arbitrarily gated between sites.
Just weighing in my opinion as a casual user.
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maybe it's homeostasis
but I dislike the change
we were a family I come from a starcraft background now manly watching dota but I very much am a teamliquidperson and prefered the sites together
meh
maybe I'm too old school 
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I'm just curious, FireBolt/Zealously/Naz/Other Reds/Blues, if you expected this reaction. I mean, is it possible that you thought this was a good idea and would go over well, but are reconsidering some aspects of the idea (not connecting the General Forum, getting rid of the Dota streams, others) in light of the backlash?
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EPT
