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Trustworthy-Tony
Tanzania187 Posts
On May 12 2014 22:08 Latham wrote: On a sidenote, why not make a LiquidGeneral.net, LiquidMedia&Entertainement.net and LiquidBlogs.net? They're coming  Do not worryEdit: managed to fuck up the quote in my first attempt. | ||
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meegrean
Thailand7699 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On May 12 2014 18:10 Firebolt145 wrote: This is probably one of the bigger things we have debated over and over again in the staff forums. The benefits are obvious, but there are a couple complications/cons. 1) The technical side of it all is quite difficult. R1CH is a wizard but it doesn't make it a simple thing to do. 2) By starting from scratch, we allow a new community to build itself up. You could say it's easier to just let the old community carry over, but then you have a bunch of threads with thousands of posts that look daunting to new visitors. This debate is still continuing even now. I can't tell you which side we're leaning more towards after all the feedback we've received in the last 12 hours, but there is definitely a possibility we may decide to implement shared forums at some point. No promises though. After sleeping over it, here's a list of things that are, in my opinion, completely unacceptable for a site of this size and with a userbase this large. Keep in mind that I consider myself a complete amateur when it comes to a basic corporate id and that I'm applying concepts I learned in print and from other "real life" organisations. It's highly likely that someone more experienced can point out even more of these things. Alright, I get it - tl.net is a franchise now. Great. Make it look like one. Try clicking on the top right between TLPro / Liquipedia / LDota / LHearth / LPoker and all the various sites look like (weak) copycats of each other. If I, for example, come from tl.net, click LDota my mouse is now over LHearth. Hell, you even change the order in which the links are arranged. Finally when clicking tlpro the entire sidebar swaps to the left side. And when you click lpoker it looks like a site with zero relation at all. ----> Fix tlpro navbar to the top right. Figure out an order for the sites and keep em like this across all sites of the franchise. Don't make the link of the site you're currently at disappear, otherwise your navigation becomes confusing. Exercise time. Open up tl.net and now open up LHearth next to it. Swap between the two repeatedly. This is at the moment the best of all the tl sites when it comes to looking familiar between each other. LDota is worse, TLpro does something entirely different and Liquipedia tries to be cute instead of streamlined and functional. Fonts change, UI elements change (clock/no clock, facebook icon gone, search bar size difference, "Events" vs "Live Events", the logo position changes, the position of the font attached to the logo changes, TL+ disappears, etc.). All of that needs to be streamlined. Subscribed threads should carry across all the sites. In theory the beautiful "customize sidebar" buttons on the right and left side should be able to pull across all major sites. (As mentioned somewhere else the smartest solution would have been to let LHearth and LDota link to completely prefiltered sites of TL via sidebar customization for an unregistered user but I guess making a new site instead gives more room to play around.) Liquipedia. If I click the top right button it leads me to another site that lets me choose between all liquipedias. Don't do that. Make the top right a dropdown (what the button below the logo on tl.net does atm) and then turn the button below the logo into more "direct" links like e.g. on LDota. Keep this method the same across all franchise sites. ...why is it impossible to add e.g. "Dota Community" "Dota Strategy" and "Hearthstone Blogs" to my left sidebar and customize it the way I'd like to? This feature was one of the most brilliant things for regulars I've ever seen on any even remotely similar site. It allows the page itself (aka you guys) to display whatever you want for non-registered users and it allows me as a registered user to set the page up the way I'd like it to be. "Outsourcing" sites like this with zero backwards compatibility completely kills that feature. Just to make it clear, by compatibility I also mean that someone logged into LDota right now (because he loves the small changes in icons and the banner up top) be able to customize his sidebar to add sections from tl.net or sections from LHearth. That single feature allows tl to build on something that it does better than any competition out there (being a platform for one userbase across a multitude of topics and interest) and make it work together with something everyone else does (generic sites for generic topics) at the same time. Instead you're choosing the latter by sacrificing some of the former. That decision simply doesn't make sense, neither from a "we're doing this just for you, our community!" nor from a "We want more unique new users aka $"-perspective. This is one of the very few situations where you can indeed please everyone involved, it's just a matter of UI. | ||
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YourGoodFriend
United States2197 Posts
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Excludos
Norway8052 Posts
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Trustworthy-Tony
Tanzania187 Posts
On May 12 2014 18:46 Trustworthy-Tony wrote: Im happy the dota 2 streams are still listed on TeamLiquid.net <3 Thank you very much Looks like this is not the case anylonger  (((((((((((((( | ||
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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[]Phase[]
Belgium927 Posts
On May 12 2014 22:08 Latham wrote: I personally really hate this concept of sister sites. Once upon a time I had access to everything I needed on TL.net. I had Starcraft Broodwar, Starcraft II (for what little I watched - Dreamhack, MLG, GomTV Season finals), a little bit of hearthstone for fun on the side, and an ever-growing list of streams of Dota 2 tournaments. Now I'm being FORCED to juggle 3 sites just to CHECK if I'm interested in any of the streams going on, tournaments being played, participate in discussions and overall news. It's real fucking shitty. I didn't mind separating Hearthstone because it will always be a niche game without any e-sports value the way it was designed to be just a fun pastime, but now moving Dota 2? Really? You which provided me with everything-in-1-site, Teamliquid.net are going to forcefully inconvenience me to navigate to some wierd and certainly not iconic sister-offshoot just to get news on another game, you have previously made excellent articles written upon, and even have your own e-sports team? Thanks a bunch, really. I think I'm more likely to go back to joindota for news rather than visit that site for any sort of news and discussion. On a sidenote, why not make a LiquidGeneral.net, LiquidMedia&Entertainement.net and LiquidBlogs.net? I don't think I will like the change either. I'll adapt, but I don't think I'll like it. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
I found TeamLiquid when I got into the early WoL beta, and loved that I could find everything there is to find for SCBW and SC2 all on one site. Over time, I came to appreciate the general and other games forums too since discussions could be had with people who shared my interests. I lost interest in SC2 over time, but Liquid adopting DotA got me to check out that game and I fell in love with that too. I've used TL over the last few years to get all my DotA news and discussion while getting the general stuff still too. Now I feel like I'm being kicked out. If I want to talk DotA, I have to go to a different website that's just for DotA, of which plenty exist. You guys cite Hearthstone as being a success story of this model, but it took you bringing it up for me to remember it existed. I would occasionally glance through that forum from time to time, but it's been dead to me ever since you made it it's own site, because I don't visit other sites, I visit TL. I don't really know how this will affect my browsing, but I doubt I'll be visiting two different sites with the same frequency, so I'm sad to think that I'll either go without my TL or without my DotA. It boggles my mind that there is no cross-over of the general/community forums to the other websites. Why does SC2 get the General/Community/Other Games/Blogs/etc.etc. forums but no one else can? | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia530 Posts
First of all, I like the new design, the calendar and how the forums work over there. However, I as many of you loved this site for it's community and ability to have all my gaming interests on one place. I don't really get why do you guys think this will help grow dota 2 on TL. TL is a very specific site and I got on here because every caster, player and personality in sc2 mentioned it all the time. This kind of promotion and marketing is not something you are going to get in the dota 2 world. Another thing that got me on TL were TL opens, witch are not going to happen for dota 2 any time soon. I doubt you will be able to gain a lot of traffic from reddit and other aggregate sites because braking news and rumors are covered and linked by other sites, and I don't see TL links on dota 2 reddit that much. I won't abandon either tl.net or boycot LD, but the first thing that I have seen on the new site was an ad to get me to turn my adblock (witch I do for tl.net). I disabled it because Doom made me lough, however after reading the announcement thread and the post on reddit, I decided to not reward this (in my mind bad and business minded) move of yours and enabled it on Liquid dota. One of things that disappointed me more than anything is complete unwillingness of TL staff in this thread to even consider this as an fuck you to the veterans and core users, specially the excuses for not doing the bare minimum of having the general and community forums on both domains. I really hope this move results in enough of a drop in traffic for you to revert it or at least enable me to somehow have the site functions I had before. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
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TheRidd
713 Posts
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theniceninja
United States30 Posts
edit: To the haters: at least it isn't liquidlol.lol... lol. | ||
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lolmlg
619 Posts
This problem was reduced over time but it was never fully eliminated. So in some ways I think this is a good move. However, some of the comments in this thread are extremely strange to me. "I stopped playing Hearthstone because you guys moved it to its own website". What? Either you enjoyed the game or you didn't. If all you wanted to do was casually talk about it, but only if you didn't have to log into a different website, then you obviously didn't like the game that much. So what are you griping about? | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
+ Show Spoiler +  Im bit drama queen, I know  | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On May 12 2014 22:57 Faust852 wrote: If it isn't broken, don't fix it ! How about "If it isn't broken, don't improve it"? That doesn't sound as great, does it? In essence, the majority of TL staff involved in the discussion believe that the benefits of this change outweigh the disadvantages. This is not TL trying to "fix" anything, this is TL trying to evolve and improve. | ||
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nachtkap
Germany195 Posts
old-TL had exclusion filters. Why cant new-TL's have inclusion filters that lets me choose to have as much TL content as I want on whatever TL site? | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On May 12 2014 23:47 Zealously wrote: How about "If it isn't broken, don't improve it"? That doesn't sound as great, does it? In essence, the majority of TL staff involved in the discussion believe that the benefits of this change outweigh the disadvantages. This is not TL trying to "fix" anything, this is TL trying to evolve and improve. There are some really cool ways to improve it, but the way you did it is not one of them. | ||
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
On May 12 2014 23:47 Zealously wrote: How about "If it isn't broken, don't improve it"? That doesn't sound as great, does it? In essence, the majority of TL staff involved in the discussion believe that the benefits of this change outweigh the disadvantages. This is not TL trying to "fix" anything, this is TL trying to evolve and improve. Adding "dota2" coverage to TL.net was an improvement, spliting the community is not. Lots of users give reason to it. especially this paragraph has lots of truth in it: "...why is it impossible to add e.g. "Dota Community" "Dota Strategy" and "Hearthstone Blogs" to my left sidebar and customize it the way I'd like to? This feature was one of the most brilliant things for regulars I've ever seen on any even remotely similar site. It allows the page itself (aka you guys) to display whatever you want for non-registered users and it allows me as a registered user to set the page up the way I'd like it to be. "Outsourcing" sites like this with zero backwards compatibility completely kills that feature." | ||
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urboss
Austria1223 Posts
On May 12 2014 23:58 Faust852 wrote: There are some really cool ways to improve it, but the way you did it is not one of them. Yeah, I always found it strange that the TL forum seems to use outdated technology from 15 years ago. All the more because this is quite a technically minded community. This is probably a good opportunity to improve on that. | ||
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