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Hello, all!
It's become quite apparent that many of you are not reading the first post carefully.
Failure to do so in the future will be met with swift punishment. And as always, remember to be civil.
Thanks,
Empyrean. Time stamp: 03:59 KST. |
On May 09 2011 06:25 HolyArrow wrote:
I do not deny that IdrA was being far more straightforward than CrunCher. I guess an adequate response to you in this case would be to refer you to my post immediately preceeding this one, where I revise my argument with the knowledge that IdrA explicitly admitted his intent to annoy Chill.
The thing is, annoying Idra by stream sniping him isn't a bannable offense. Posting on TL that Cruncher is a "waste of life" is a bannable offense. The antagonism between Idra and Cruncher is their personal business. But when it spills over to TL the mods have to act. That's the essence of what happened. Cruncher didn't force Idra to break TL's rules, and had Idra twitted it instead, I don't think he would've been banned.
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love how anyone who disagrees gets warned drunk with power mods maybe 
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On May 09 2011 06:00 aquanda wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 05:51 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On May 09 2011 05:41 Roffles wrote:On May 09 2011 05:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
I posted this in the fanclub, but since it seems that a lot of the mods are reading this thread, I thought I'd ask here.
If he chooses to continue streaming his games, how will IdrA's stream work for the next three months? Can he still set his channel to live by himself, or would he need someone to do it for him? Someone else said there's an option to have TL scan if your stream is live and then set your TL channel live. Is this option a reality?
And before someone jumps on me for not reading the OP, I'm not asking if he can stream or not, I'm asking the specifics of how his channel will appear in the sidebar, and how the channel will be set to live.
Thanks. :p Pretty sure you can still manage stream stuff while you're banned. Set it live, set it offline, change all that other stuff that's stream related. I've done this numerous times before. Ok, thank you. Although I wish he would, I seriously doubt he will continue to stream nearly as much as he did before. If I had just gotten banned for 90 days for insulting someone who trolls me 24/7, the last thing I would want to do is support the website. Unfortunate that TL was put into such a tough position, but I guess you can only deal with so much for so long.
Setting your stream live on Teamliquid benefits no one other than yourself, and I don't think that it would support TL. If anything, being able to stream and set his channel live on Teamliquid benefits IdrA more than anyone. He streams on Justin.tv, not on Teamliquid.net, and I'm sure that a lot of people would be unaware of when he streams if it were not for the TL sidebar notifying them of when he's online. So, being able to keep the sidebar and featured stream benefits him more than anyone, because it will help draw more viewers which equates to more ad revenue for IdrA.
That said, whether he chooses to continue to stream or not is entirely up to him, and is mostly a matter of pride and maturity, in my opinion. If he chooses to continue streaming, then I'll be happy to continue watching. If he chooses to stop streaming, then that's his decision as an individual, I'll accept it, and I'll just be glad to be able to watch him play in tournaments. I'm not going to whine and moan if he stops streaming, but just be happy for the games I do get to watch. I also won't blame Teamliquid.net, nor will I blame Cruncher if that does happen. Is the TL ban excessive? Was Cruncher acting childishly? That's irrelevant. Whether or not IdrA continues to stream is his decision alone, and if he stops, then that's the choice he made, and the rest of us can live with it, I'm sure.
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I think that almost everyone who are disagreeing with IdrA's ban, and saying that Cruncher must have been banned too, don't understand how a forum works. Even if Cruncher was really watching IdrA's stream, "cheating" as everyone is calling, this is not a behavior that Team Liquid, as a forum, have to take care of. This isn't against the rules of Team Liquid (unless I'm mistaken).
IdrA took his rage from a fact that happened outside the forums, and brought it to here, posted, got banned, and after that, started this "hate campaign" against Chill, an attitude that is clearly against the rules of the forum, and this is the reason he received a 90-day ban.
There is no sense in the idea behind this claim to ban Cruncher, for being a possible cheater, as there is no reason to believe that IdrA's lack of streaming has anything to do with his ban from TL.
PS: This post from smileyface22 was one of the worst ever. Shows exactly why fanaticism for anything is a laughable choice of life.
PS²: My english is horrible, so be nice with me. =)
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On May 09 2011 06:29 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:25 HolyArrow wrote:
I do not deny that IdrA was being far more straightforward than CrunCher. I guess an adequate response to you in this case would be to refer you to my post immediately preceeding this one, where I revise my argument with the knowledge that IdrA explicitly admitted his intent to annoy Chill. The thing is, annoying Idra by stream sniping him isn't a bannable offense. Posting on TL that Cruncher is a "waste of life" is a bannable offense. The antagonism between Idra and Cruncher is their personal business. But when it spills over to TL the mods have to act. That's the essence of what happened. Cruncher didn't force Idra to break TL's rules, and had Idra twitted it instead, I don't think he would've been banned.
The idea is that annoying Idra by stream sniping isn't the entire story, but that CrunCher knew what it would look like and knew that it would get a rise out of IdrA. My entire argument rests on the (perhaps unreasonable to some people, but, in my opinion, reasonable) assumption that CrunCher actively tried to get a rise out of IdrA (trolling) and got exactly that. Obviously, IdrA didn't handle it at all gracefully and thus, all of this ensued. My argument is that CrunCher isn't blameless either.
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I can provide screen shots of my conversation with Chill. At no point did he ask me to stop or imply he didn't want to receive those messages. I'm going to quote wikipedia on the subject, "It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing." Thus it's commonly accepted for a action to become harassment, a party has to ask the other party in some form to stop.
I would like to point out section 3 of your ten commandments which states, "... If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that."
Two things, everyone that contact Chill about the ban was in the right according to the rules as long as they were being respectful. If they choose to violate the rules that was once again, their action. Not Greg Fields.
Last, the Idra Banned for 90 Days creates a double stander. Where it implied in the rules that such threads should not be create since it seems to be TL staff would prefer to deal with such matters in private.
Thus I humbly request you do not ban Greg "IdrA" Fields for 90 days. Since his tweet did not tell people to harass it clearly states, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". Which is clearly in the rules that you are allow to, "If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM..." I do not see any rule that was broken to increase IdrA's ban to 90 days.
I would also like to request that moderate actions on the Team Liquid forums be base solely on items that happen on the forums. Actions that happen on other outlets should be not be dealt with on the Team Liquid forums.
Thank you.
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Idra is immature as fuck, and then when he acts like a brat and shows it he's still somehow proud that "he speaks his mind".
Well dear Greg, it's nice that you speak your mind, but it'd be even better if your mind, or should I say emotional maturity level wasn't terribly reminiscent to that of a 8 year old.
You guys need to permaban him, who cares if he's a good SC2 player, he's a shitty human.
User was warned for this post
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On May 09 2011 06:04 eNtitY~ wrote:
This is a really stupid move, it's not like he told people to mass spam Chill and harass him about why. He just said he was banned and if they had a problem to PM Chill... The staff needs to lighten up a bit here because what he did really shouldn't be that big of a deal. All TL admins are doing is taking away from the community because now no one gets to benefit from the week of analysis he was going to do. Considering ~18k people watch it the first day there was a lot of interest there.
Overboard IMO.
He said he will stop streaming because he was temp. banned from TL even though those two things are unrelated. I don't see how this can mean anything but "I'm not happy about getting banned, so I'm not gonna keep my promise to my fans about streaming this week. If you have problems, this guy (Chill) is to blame". Chill actually did end up getting nearly 200 PM's flaming him. I can understand why the TL mods made this decision.
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On May 09 2011 06:19 PrincessLeila wrote:
All the love around a guy like Idra is scary.
What's great about a guy that acts like a 6 year old ?
A guy that cant admit his losses... And supposed to be a PRO ??
This guy have no respect for anything, he thinks he is so great that he can shit on anyone.
He should have been perma banned a long time ago.
Everyy sport has guys like idra, the guy you love or the guy you love to hate. He's a very talented player. And idras supposed to be a pro? He's one of the most famous and talented sc2 players.
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On May 09 2011 06:29 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:25 HolyArrow wrote:
I do not deny that IdrA was being far more straightforward than CrunCher. I guess an adequate response to you in this case would be to refer you to my post immediately preceeding this one, where I revise my argument with the knowledge that IdrA explicitly admitted his intent to annoy Chill. The thing is, annoying Idra by stream sniping him isn't a bannable offense. Posting on TL that Cruncher is a "waste of life" is a bannable offense. The antagonism between Idra and Cruncher is their personal business. But when it spills over to TL the mods have to act. That's the essence of what happened. Cruncher didn't force Idra to break TL's rules, and had Idra twitted it instead, I don't think he would've been banned.
I was fine with his 2 day ban.
#1 Mods PM IdrA and ask if his twitter post was meant as an aggressive move, IdrA confirms it was to annoy Chill.
#2 Mods ask if IdrA will apologize and if his attitude will continue like it is, Idra confirms it will.
Mods extend ban to 90 days.
right there is where rules were somewhat set aside and "i have my reasons" set in.
my current argument has nothing to do with his stream or TL shorting the community, because neither reason is different than cruncher trolling idra via stream sniping.
personally mods could have handled this better by banning him for 90 days in the first place, because this just rekindled the shitstorm, good one.
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On May 09 2011 06:32 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:29 Azarkon wrote:On May 09 2011 06:25 HolyArrow wrote:
I do not deny that IdrA was being far more straightforward than CrunCher. I guess an adequate response to you in this case would be to refer you to my post immediately preceeding this one, where I revise my argument with the knowledge that IdrA explicitly admitted his intent to annoy Chill. The thing is, annoying Idra by stream sniping him isn't a bannable offense. Posting on TL that Cruncher is a "waste of life" is a bannable offense. The antagonism between Idra and Cruncher is their personal business. But when it spills over to TL the mods have to act. That's the essence of what happened. Cruncher didn't force Idra to break TL's rules, and had Idra twitted it instead, I don't think he would've been banned. The idea is that annoying Idra by stream sniping isn't the entire story, but that CrunCher knew what it would look like and knew that it would get a rise out of IdrA. My entire argument rests on the (perhaps unreasonable to some people, but, in my opinion, reasonable) assumption that CrunCher actively tried to get a rise out of IdrA (trolling) and got exactly that. Obviously, IdrA didn't handle it at all gracefully and thus, all of this ensued. My argument is that CrunCher isn't blameless either.
He's not blameless, but he doesn't deserve a ban on TL. There's a huge difference between the two.
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On May 09 2011 06:33 GeeseHoward wrote:
I can provide screen shots of my conversation with Chill. At no point did he ask me to stop or imply he didn't want to receive those messages. I'm going to quote wikipedia on the subject, "It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing." Thus it's commonly accepted for a action to become harassment, a party has to ask the other party in some form to stop.
I would like to point out section 3 of your ten commandments which states, "... If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that."
Two things, everyone that contact Chill about the ban was in the right according to the rules as long as they were being respectful. If they choose to violate the rules that was once again, their action. Not Greg Fields.
Last, the Idra Banned for 90 Days creates a double stander. Where it implied in the rules that such threads should not be create since it seems to be TL staff would prefer to deal with such matters in private.
Thus I humbly request you do not ban Greg "IdrA" Fields for 90 days. Since his tweet did not tell people to harass it clearly states, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". Which is clearly in the rules that you are allow to, "If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM..." I do not see any rule that was broken to increase IdrA's ban to 90 days.
I would also like to request that moderate actions on the Team Liquid forums be base solely on items that happen on the forums. Actions that happen on other outlets should be not be dealt with on the Team Liquid forums.
Thank you.
Actually, IdrA explicitly admitted that his twitter post was intended to annoy Chill, which is something that I didn't realize until recently.
Still, I feel like you make an excellent point in the first part of your post - the part about how people PMing Chill to contest the ban seems to fall within the rules (and, I'm formulating a new argument right now - even if IdrA intended to annoy Chill, that annoyance - namely, the people PMing Chill to contest IdrA's ban - was within the rules of the forum. It's the fault of the people who PMed Chill, not IdrA himself, that those PMs were stupid and far more troll-worthy than rational).
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People for god sake, learn to read! Half of these posts go off at the fact he got banned for simply calling Cruncher a waste of life, there's more to it than that.
Going off on a highwire when you barely even know what played out makes you all look seriously retarded, people are drawing way too many conclusions and are going by word of mouth from others. Get infromed first, then make whatever argument it is you have to make. Seems to be a problem in most drama threads.
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On May 08 2011 08:12 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
It's standard procedure to leave the stream open when sniping its player. When the game is over, simply remove mute and listen to the commentary. If the stream is closed, the initial advertisement is very likely to destroy the chance to hear the full commentary.
Most people use ad-block. I don't think a stream should ever be left open for any reason after you've successfully sniped someone.
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Telling the moderators "Hey, I'm doing this to piss you off" is insulting, and a bannable offense regardless of the context. There's nothing personal about it.
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Lalalaland34502 Posts
Er, adblock doesn't work for this situation haha.
The ad tyler is referring to is the one you get at the start of most streams before they show the actual stream
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Russian Federation5 Posts
On May 09 2011 06:33 GeeseHoward wrote:
I can provide screen shots of my conversation with Chill. At no point did he ask me to stop or imply he didn't want to receive those messages. I'm going to quote wikipedia on the subject, "It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing." Thus it's commonly accepted for a action to become harassment, a party has to ask the other party in some form to stop.
I would like to point out section 3 of your ten commandments which states, "... If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that."
Two things, everyone that contact Chill about the ban was in the right according to the rules as long as they were being respectful. If they choose to violate the rules that was once again, their action. Not Greg Fields.
Last, the Idra Banned for 90 Days creates a double stander. Where it implied in the rules that such threads should not be create since it seems to be TL staff would prefer to deal with such matters in private.
Thus I humbly request you do not ban Greg "IdrA" Fields for 90 days. Since his tweet did not tell people to harass it clearly states, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". Which is clearly in the rules that you are allow to, "If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM..." I do not see any rule that was broken to increase IdrA's ban to 90 days.
I would also like to request that moderate actions on the Team Liquid forums be base solely on items that happen on the forums. Actions that happen on other outlets should be not be dealt with on the Team Liquid forums.
Thank you. Totally agree.
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On May 09 2011 06:35 Zeke50100 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:32 HolyArrow wrote:On May 09 2011 06:29 Azarkon wrote:On May 09 2011 06:25 HolyArrow wrote:
I do not deny that IdrA was being far more straightforward than CrunCher. I guess an adequate response to you in this case would be to refer you to my post immediately preceeding this one, where I revise my argument with the knowledge that IdrA explicitly admitted his intent to annoy Chill. The thing is, annoying Idra by stream sniping him isn't a bannable offense. Posting on TL that Cruncher is a "waste of life" is a bannable offense. The antagonism between Idra and Cruncher is their personal business. But when it spills over to TL the mods have to act. That's the essence of what happened. Cruncher didn't force Idra to break TL's rules, and had Idra twitted it instead, I don't think he would've been banned. The idea is that annoying Idra by stream sniping isn't the entire story, but that CrunCher knew what it would look like and knew that it would get a rise out of IdrA. My entire argument rests on the (perhaps unreasonable to some people, but, in my opinion, reasonable) assumption that CrunCher actively tried to get a rise out of IdrA (trolling) and got exactly that. Obviously, IdrA didn't handle it at all gracefully and thus, all of this ensued. My argument is that CrunCher isn't blameless either. He's not blameless, but he doesn't deserve a ban on TL. There's a huge difference between the two.
That's your opinion. My point was simply to argue that CrunCher shares some blame in this - whether or not you interpret that blame as ban-worthy is up to you (obviously, I personally feel like since this entire fiasco ended in IdrA being banned for 90 days, you have to compare the weight of the blame to that huge ban, and thus punish CrunCher in some way as well). Again, this is just my opinion - the mods likely disagree with me, and that's fine, but I feel like I'm making a valid point.
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On May 09 2011 06:33 GeeseHoward wrote:
I can provide screen shots of my conversation with Chill. At no point did he ask me to stop or imply he didn't want to receive those messages. I'm going to quote wikipedia on the subject, "It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset, and it is characteristically repetitive. In the legal sense, it is intentional behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing." Thus it's commonly accepted for a action to become harassment, a party has to ask the other party in some form to stop.
I would like to point out section 3 of your ten commandments which states, "... If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM or in our IRC channel, but please be respectful about it. Do not take things into your own hands by posting "Ban?" or telling users they will be banned. You PM Moderators to let them know about specific posts or threads, but let them handle it after that."
Two things, everyone that contact Chill about the ban was in the right according to the rules as long as they were being respectful. If they choose to violate the rules that was once again, their action. Not Greg Fields.
Last, the Idra Banned for 90 Days creates a double stander. Where it implied in the rules that such threads should not be create since it seems to be TL staff would prefer to deal with such matters in private.
Thus I humbly request you do not ban Greg "IdrA" Fields for 90 days. Since his tweet did not tell people to harass it clearly states, "wont be streaming for 2 days as i have been banned from tl for insulting cruncher, everyone pm Chill if this upsets you". Which is clearly in the rules that you are allow to, "If you believe a certain ban was a mistake, you can contact a Mod through PM..." I do not see any rule that was broken to increase IdrA's ban to 90 days.
I would also like to request that moderate actions on the Team Liquid forums be base solely on items that happen on the forums. Actions that happen on other outlets should be not be dealt with on the Team Liquid forums.
Thank you.
Idra told TL staffs that he did it on purpose. Proof:
On May 09 2011 06:15 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2011 06:04 eNtitY~ wrote:
This is a really stupid move, it's not like he told people to mass spam Chill and harass him about why. He just said he was banned and if they had a problem to PM Chill... The staff needs to lighten up a bit here because what he did really shouldn't be that big of a deal. All TL admins are doing is taking away from the community because now no one gets to benefit from the week of analysis he was going to do. Considering ~18k people watch it the first day there was a lot of interest there.
Overboard IMO. TL Staff talked about it with Idra. He said he did it on purpose to annoy Chill. We are not taking anything from you. If Idra doesn't want to stream, it's his own decision. We don't have a power button to switch his computer or stream off.
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EPT
