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Ret,
if you want to loose weight a good idea is to cut down on carbs alot and like you said, don't eat them too late in the day. Also switch rice, pasta, potatoes for veggies (broccoli, avocado, tomato, cucumber, salad, spinache etc) and eat more healthy fats in the form of olive oil, omega-3 (salmon, mackerel etc), nuts (cashew, almonds etc).
Basically, try to aim for a high intake of protein and fat and lower the carbs and especially refined carbs (white pasta, rice etc) in your diet. Protein and fat stimulates anabolic hormones in the body and therefore muscle growth. A diet high in protein and fat will help keeping your muscle and instead shed off body fat.
Pretty much all kinds of meats are your friend, so is fat because you actually need to eat fat in order to burn body fat. Limit carbs, and switch them for veggies (which contain carbs but slower ones and a much lower amount in general).
Eating protein after the gym is good, actually milk is a quite good source of protein after a workout, and cheap.
Here's a short example of what you could eat during a day:
Breakfast: omelet with 3-5 eggs + cheese, tomatoes, whatever you want. Add bacon if you like
Lunch: 1 can of tuna (in water)/salmon, add tomatoes, olive oil, lots of spice.
Dinner (after gym): 300 gr chicken filé/salmon/meat, 0,5-1 dl parboiled/full grain rice, broccoli.
Evening: A couple of boiled eggs or something else high in protein/fat.
This above is a pretty cheap diet that I kind of use myself, being I'm a student. It provides a decent amount of protein and fat and not so many fast carbs. If you want you can also drink protein shakes after your gym session (and possibly right before).
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On January 21 2010 23:28 ret wrote:ret Age: 24 || Height: 6'1" or 1.84 || Weight: 259 lbs/118 kg Starting Date: 01/01/2010 || Goal Date: 01/06/2010 Weight goals -- Not lose muscle, get stronger as much as possible while losing fat the fastest way possible. Training goals -- No real training goals, just want to lose weight Nutrition goals -- eating healthy in general, establishing a healthy diet that i can maintain for the rest of my life Misc goals -- Look sexy as fux My main problem is the diet..Especially in Korea I have no idea what I can eat that is actually healthy, most things you order in restaurants have some bads in them of some sort..but I am going home in a week so it won't be as hard... I'll be able to make my own food daily. Main guidelines are just going to be to eat most of my carbs before 4 pm, go to the gym, and eat protein after. If anyone has detailed, specific food tips like meals i should eat when I would like to hear them. 
Ret,
Pretty much what Foucault said.
You're going to aim to:
1. cut down on the carbohydrates
2. cut out ALL processed foods
3. Eat a diet high in protein + healthy fats
4. Lift heavy, if you have access to a gym
On January 21 2010 13:11 bdams19 wrote:
Good link... I really have to start committing 100% to my diet.
I will declare today as my start date:
Age: 23
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 180 (highest it has been in my entire life)
Goal: 165 while adding lean muscle.
Training: Swim 40 minutes every other day, lift every other day (not on the same days, alternating). Use the weekend for rest.
I have been having severe stomach problems that are holding me back (gas, bloating, etc.) during workouts and it is extremely frustrating. All tests were negative so I probably need to get a colonoscopy =(
What are you eating?
Nutritional problems are at the forefront of a lot of stuff. If you are gluten intolerant for example and still keep eating things with gluten in it like most processed foods, breads, etc.. then you can get crazy problems.
On January 21 2010 13:48 Sadist wrote:My problem with all this stuff that ive glossed over is it assumes that you want to gain mass. Im 6'1-2 and 250. Id like to be like 215-225. It seems like all of these books (I even bought starting strength) assume you are starting out skinny and want to gain mass. Anything for someone who wants to cut weight but build muscle?
Eat isocalorically. Not enough to gain but not enough to lose.
Your body will start using fat as energy to build muscle albeit depending your bodyfat percentage it may be slow to much slower.
Regardless, heavy lifting is the way you want to go.
On January 21 2010 23:09 funkie wrote:
Sup.
I started gym already.
been doing Biceps, Chest, Back, triceps, legs and all that, mixed with Bicycle and some cardio stuff. Doing soft abs workout everyday.
My question is:
I'm around 60~65kg in weight right now, I'm around 1.65cm of height. I'm not fat, but I'd like to get taller, and to get ripped and get muscle, not to the point where I'd look fucking ugly, but you know, a decent body wouldn't be too much to ask.
I'm no newbie to working out, as I'm always been an active person, Swimming, working out in my house etc etc etc.
To achieve my goal, Do I need to change my diet (I don't watch what I eat mostly, I drink coke and shit almost everyday, and I know it isn't good but meh T_T).
Any pointers on what should I be doing? When I was swimming and had to hit them gym, my coach always told us, that we needed to go for endurance, thus, never go less than 12 reps for each exercise. Should I keep this mentality? I'll see if I can get my gym program scanned so you can check it out.
I just want some pointers, on what should I eat, do, and how should I workout, to gain muscle, and get a nice body.
Thanks!
Nooooooo. Do Starting Strength.
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On January 22 2010 00:21 funkie wrote:
wat about me diets?
Check out the OP.
I put a lot of links into the nutrition section to help get you started.
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On January 22 2010 00:21 funkie wrote:
wat about me diets?
lol funkie read what I wrote in response to ret's post above. If you want to gain weight, add in more carbs/fat depending on your preferences
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I think I made my goals too low, almost at them already. I just cleaned 110. I need to refine my technique though. Im not patience enough at my 2nd pull.
eshlow what does your eating schedule look like?
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On January 21 2010 20:35 Energies wrote:
Just watched the Mark Rippetoe squat training video. I don't think I've ever been this excited to hit the gym and squat. Looking forward to it this Saturday!
Have been stuck at 220lb forever. Mostly just too scared to go heavier without a spotter.
Edit: Decaf, you're a beast. Seriously.
I love squatting!
Get a partner to spot you/push you to do better. I always lift better when i have someone watching me because they can see my form and i don't want to look like a bitch ^_^ Have you tried a 5x5 or SS program with linear progression in weight to get past 220?
On January 21 2010 23:09 funkie wrote:
Sup.
I started gym already.
been doing Biceps, Chest, Back, triceps, legs and all that, mixed with Bicycle and some cardio stuff. Doing soft abs workout everyday.
My question is:
I'm around 60~65kg in weight right now, I'm around 1.65cm of height. I'm not fat, but I'd like to get taller, and to get ripped and get muscle, not to the point where I'd look fucking ugly, but you know, a decent body wouldn't be too much to ask.
I'm no newbie to working out, as I'm always been an active person, Swimming, working out in my house etc etc etc.
To achieve my goal, Do I need to change my diet (I don't watch what I eat mostly, I drink coke and shit almost everyday, and I know it isn't good but meh T_T).
Any pointers on what should I be doing? When I was swimming and had to hit them gym, my coach always told us, that we needed to go for endurance, thus, never go less than 12 reps for each exercise. Should I keep this mentality? I'll see if I can get my gym program scanned so you can check it out.
I just want some pointers, on what should I eat, do, and how should I workout, to gain muscle, and get a nice body.
Thanks!
like eshlow said, you should do starting strength, you don't really need to be isolating things like biceps and triceps when doing compound lifts will work them enough. and of course, change your diet, there's plenty in this thread about that ^_^
On January 21 2010 13:48 Sadist wrote:My problem with all this stuff that ive glossed over is it assumes that you want to gain mass. Im 6'1-2 and 250. Id like to be like 215-225. It seems like all of these books (I even bought starting strength) assume you are starting out skinny and want to gain mass. Anything for someone who wants to cut weight but build muscle?
By gaining muscle you will lose fat. Your lifting won't change THAT much weather you want to get cut or put on mass, thats mostly diet i think. When i was putting on weight i was eating 4000-4500 cal a day and now i'm eating around 3000 or so now that i'm not as concerned with putting on weight. Add in cardio to burn some fat
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On January 21 2010 23:40 Foucault wrote:
Ret,
if you want to loose weight a good idea is to cut down on carbs alot and like you said, don't eat them too late in the day. Also switch rice, pasta, potatoes for veggies (broccoli, avocado, tomato, cucumber, salad, spinache etc) and eat more healthy fats in the form of olive oil, omega-3 (salmon, mackerel etc), nuts (cashew, almonds etc).
Basically, try to aim for a high intake of protein and fat and lower the carbs and especially refined carbs (white pasta, rice etc) in your diet. Protein and fat stimulates anabolic hormones in the body and therefore muscle growth. A diet high in protein and fat will help keeping your muscle and instead shed off body fat.
Pretty much all kinds of meats are your friend, so is fat because you actually need to eat fat in order to burn body fat. Limit carbs, and switch them for veggies (which contain carbs but slower ones and a much lower amount in general).
Eating protein after the gym is good, actually milk is a quite good source of protein after a workout, and cheap.
Here's a short example of what you could eat during a day:
Breakfast: omelet with 3-5 eggs + cheese, tomatoes, whatever you want. Add bacon if you like
Lunch: 1 can of tuna (in water)/salmon, add tomatoes, olive oil, lots of spice.
Dinner (after gym): 300 gr chicken filé/salmon/meat, 0,5-1 dl parboiled/full grain rice, broccoli.
Evening: A couple of boiled eggs or something else high in protein/fat.
This above is a pretty cheap diet that I kind of use myself, being I'm a student. It provides a decent amount of protein and fat and not so many fast carbs. If you want you can also drink protein shakes after your gym session (and possibly right before).
Some counter-opinions from wiki:
In his book Dr Atkins' New Diet Revolution, Dr. Atkins made the controversial argument that the low-carbohydrate diet produces a metabolic advantage in which the body burns more calories, overall, than on normal diets, and also expels some unused calories. He cited one study where he estimated this advantage to be 950 calories (4.0 MJ) a day. However, a review study published in the Lancet[3] concluded that there was no such metabolic advantage and dieters were simply eating fewer calories because of boredom. Professor Astrup stated, "The monotony and simplicity of the diet could inhibit appetite and food intake".
This diet trend has stirred major controversies in the medical and nutritional sciences communities and, as yet, there is not a general consensus on their efficacy or safety.[6][7]
Bravata et al., 2003[33] conducted a literature search study of low-carbohydrate diet studies conducted between 1966 and 2003. The paper stated the following conclusion.
There is insufficient evidence to make recommendations for or against the use of low-carbohydrate diets, particularly among participants older than age 50 years, for use longer than 90 days, or for diets of 20 g/d or less of carbohydrates. Among the published studies, participant weight loss while using low-carbohydrate diets was principally associated with decreased caloric intake and increased diet duration but not with reduced carbohydrate content.
The study determined that carbohydrate reduction did not significantly contribute more to weight loss than simply reducing calories. The article does state that
Low-carbohydrate diets had no significant adverse effect on serum lipid, fasting serum glucose, and fasting serum insulin levels, or blood pressure.
A meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials by the Cochrane Collaboration in 2002 concluded[56] that fat-restricted diets are no better than calorie restricted diets in achieving long term weight loss in overweight or obese people.
A more recent meta-analysis that included randomized controlled trials published after the Cochrane review[57][58][59] found that "low-carbohydrate, non-energy-restricted diets appear to be at least as effective as low-fat, energy-restricted diets in inducing weight loss for up to 1 year. However, potential favorable changes in triglyceride and high-density lipoprotein cholesterol values should be weighed against potential unfavorable changes in low-density lipoprotein cholesterol values when low-carbohydrate diets to induce weight loss are considered."[60]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_research_related_to_low-carbohydrate_diets
Take advice with a grain of salt. There's also some people who saying going vegan, no meat and focusing on whole grains is a much better diet, and I'm skeptical about them as well. Fads abound in weight loss, and popularity does not equal validity.
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On January 22 2010 05:18 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2010 20:35 Energies wrote:
Just watched the Mark Rippetoe squat training video. I don't think I've ever been this excited to hit the gym and squat. Looking forward to it this Saturday!
Have been stuck at 220lb forever. Mostly just too scared to go heavier without a spotter.
Edit: Decaf, you're a beast. Seriously. I love squatting! Get a partner to spot you/push you to do better. I always lift better when i have someone watching me because they can see my form and i don't want to look like a bitch ^_^ Have you tried a 5x5 or SS program with linear progression in weight to get past 220?
I'm starting 5x5 soon, but it isn't really an ability issue, I think it's more mental. My legs partner trains at different times now and I just never bothered to find someone else to train legs with, as much as I love squats, they scare the crap out of me as I've squatted to failure on 2 different occasions. the rack saved me, but it was scary.
My numbers are really weird at the moment because of it.
Deadlift is 352
Squat is 220, which I think should be 240-260, maybe more.
Bench is 176 ;-(.
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igotmyown, it doesn't really matter what you eat as long as you eat less calories than you use during a day.
The difference lies in what kind of weight loss we are talking about. You could eat only candy all day long and loose weight but your body composition would probably be that of a person who doesn't weigh much but still has belly fat etc.
Low weight doesn't equal an healthy body. If you instead loose weight with a diet high in protein and fat your body composition will be far better than a diet very high in carbs and lower in fat/protein. This is pretty much general knowledge and is the reason why people who want to get in shape eat that kind of diet. There is also believed to be an genetic aspect of how well your body uses carbs.
You should also be aware of the fact that because carbs are a huge part of our western diet and because there are big economic interests from food companies to keep them, this also makes the views on diet biased with researchers. If you as a researcher believe that carbs are essential to living human beings (which they in fact aren't), this will make your research have innate bias.
The stuff you posted now mainly makes people confused about weight loss. So I'll say it again:
You can loose weight eating anything but what you eat will determine your body composition after weight loss
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sleeping adequately
Sorry, this is impossible
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Confusion isn't bad, it forces you to be think critically about trends. A controlled scientific study has less bias than an advocate. For example if you say that lots of protein is important for what shape you need to be, the first question I would ask is how much protein do you need for weightlifting. First result I found for how much protein you need.
http://exercise.about.com/cs/nutrition/a/protein.htm
1. Weight in pounds divided by 2.2 = weight in kg
2. Weight in kg x 0.8-1.8 gm/kg = protein gm.
Use a lower number if you are in good health and are sedentary (i.e., 0.8). Use a higher number (between 1 and 1.8) if you are under stress, are pregnant, are recovering from an illness, or if you are involved in consistent and intense weight or endurance training.
Study with 3 control groups on protein intake for weightlifters
An ounce of meat or fish has approximately 7 grams of protein For you metric people, an ounce is about 30 grams.
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Sure, I don't believe in over-eating on protein either. Many weighlifters advocate 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight so if you're 160 pounds, you should get 160 grams of protein daily in order to get optimal results. I do think that protein intake is a little bit overrated in some cases, 1.4-2.0 grams daily per kg weight is sufficient for any needs. Except maybe if your name is Ronnie Coleman or whatever.
I have always strived for about 1.8 gr/kg bodyweight. I'm 76 kg currently (187 cm tall) and get around 140-150 gr protein daily, which I think is well enough.
However, when you want to diet and really get those abs showing, many people advocate an even higher protein intake for that purpose, around 1.8-2.5 gr protein/kg bodyweight. I believe that when you want to put on muscle you don't need as much protein (but still quite alot) as when cutting.
The definition of being "lean" is a bit vague too and relates to how lean a person wants to be. Also an important thing is that protein intake alone doesn't make you lean. It's the combination of less carbs and more fat along with higher protein intake that makes your body loose more fat and keep muscle to a higher degree.
The study only looked at protein intake, neglecting fat and carbs. It's a bit more complex than that, and you can't really isolate one of the macronutrients.
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On January 22 2010 07:18 Foucault wrote:
igotmyown, it doesn't really matter what you eat as long as you eat less calories than you use during a day.
The difference lies in what kind of weight loss we are talking about. You could eat only candy all day long and loose weight but your body composition would probably be that of a person who doesn't weigh much but still has belly fat etc.
Low weight doesn't equal an healthy body. If you instead loose weight with a diet high in protein and fat your body composition will be far better than a diet very high in carbs and lower in fat/protein. This is pretty much general knowledge and is the reason why people who want to get in shape eat that kind of diet. There is also believed to be an genetic aspect of how well your body uses carbs.
You should also be aware of the fact that because carbs are a huge part of our western diet and because there are big economic interests from food companies to keep them, this also makes the views on diet biased with researchers. If you as a researcher believe that carbs are essential to living human beings (which they in fact aren't), this will make your research have innate bias.
The stuff you posted now mainly makes people confused about weight loss. So I'll say it again:
You can loose weight eating anything but what you eat will determine your body composition after weight loss
Sorry, I don't know how to frame it better, but I believe what you just wrote is neither relevant nor necessarily accurate. Your argument about body composition does not make any sense to me at all. If you eat less calories and work-out hard, it will improve your body composition whether it is candy or all protein. Of course, you are all in all healthier, feel better and maybe have results faster with a good diet. But body composition, I don't think so.
Nutrition and diet is really a very complex topic to cover. There are studies for everything out there, and the paradigma changes constantly. I'm not challenging minor stuff like how protein helps muscle-growth, but the whole carbs vs fat debate to me is just silly. The only constant I truly believe in is that calorie intake matters.
I've lost around 90lb (40kg) twice in my life (and sadly gained them back, but that had nothing to do with nutrition, but falling apart on all levels, not enough exercise, eating too much of everything etc.)
The first time was around 2001, when Fat was considered bad by public opinion. I also took a course about this under the supervision of doctors etc.
During one year, I drastically reduced fat intake. I worked out on a horrible routine, and build muscle regardless while losing weight drastically, looking good and healthy all around.
The second time during 2005 I trained for a marathon, did less strength training, had a more balanced diet between carbs and fat. The result was pretty much the same over the same amount of time, only a little bit less muscular.
This is just anecdotical evidence, but my point is that this whole carbs vs fats debate is totally pointless in my opinion.
Eat healthy and in moderation while working out, and you while have good results. I don't think that confuses anyone about weight loss.
edit: and choose a diet you can realistically follow over a long period of time. If you cut out everything you like to eat just because of carbs, fats or whatever, you probably won't make it.
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What the heck just happened?
You should eat both low carb and high carb. Find out what works better for you. The adaptation period for trying low carb out is at least 2-3 weeks. So stick it out for a month.
Based on my experience with MOST people they will do MUCH MUCH MUCH better on a low carb, high fat, moderate/high protein diet. Year round.
This is for strength and mass gain. As well as losing fat. The difference if you are eating quality foods is just intake of more or less calories.
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If you want to gain mass as a lifter or if you are an athlete you need > 1g/lbs bodyweight. I know some people who only really pack on the mass when they're up near 1.5g/lbs. Some professional BBers go up to 2-2.5g/lbs while they are cutting.
Anything less (and yes<2.2g/kg) and you're cheating yourself in strength and performance in most cases.
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On January 22 2010 02:22 AoN.DimSum wrote:
I think I made my goals too low, almost at them already. I just cleaned 110. I need to refine my technique though. Im not patience enough at my 2nd pull.
eshlow what does your eating schedule look like?
3-4x a day.
Breakfast = bacon + 4-6 whole eggs + maybe fruit. I actually need to eat more.
Lunch/dinner = Vege/fruits + meat/fish + healthy fat source at every meal (usually fat from meat... which reminds me I need to get some grass fed meat so I don't have to keep taking fish oil to counteract the omega 6s)
Fruits tend to be best as berries.
nuts/dried squid/maybe some jerky for snack if I'm feeling hungry. I make an exception for some ice cream here and there.
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Of course your body composition will be different when dieting if you're eating candy only compared to lots of protein. There is a reason people who diet to get in shape for tournaments (fitness, bodybuilders etc) eat alot of protein and cut down on the carbs. You won't get the same muscle definition on a low-protein diet UNLESS you're not that interested in muscles and do cardio training alot, because then the carbs will get burned in the process and you will end up skinny but defined.
How is carbs vs fat silly? You obviously don't have to choose either but balance both. If you cut out carbs (LCHF) you will have a very hard time adding body fat because of the role insulin plays in putting on fat. Fast carbs especially make you fat, if you're eating more calories than you use of course. If you switch out the fast carbs for veggies and carbs that are alot slower, this will have a big impact on your blood sugar levels and your body won't store as much energy as body fat.
In general, less carbs = less body fat
That being said it depends on your workout routine. If you do alot of cardio you will end up burning the carbs and remain slender. If you don't do alot of cardio and eat alot of carbs, chances are your body fat will be in the moderate-high range. It's of course dependant on your calorie intake, but alot of carbs means alot of calories.
Also, people are different. Some people handle carbs quite well and don't have as much body fat as someone else, although they eat the same amount. A common misconception is that it's ALL about calories. No, it's about your balance of macronutrients, your genetics and your workout routine as well.
Btw, it's not only about how your body looks but general health as well. Skyrocketing levels of blood sugar isn't a good thing to have.
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On January 22 2010 09:34 eshlow wrote:
Based on my experience with MOST people they will do MUCH MUCH MUCH better on a low carb, high fat, moderate/high protein diet. Year round.
Definately agreed.
The reason people are so fat nowadays are:
1) People don't exercise enough considering their daily intake and balance of micronutrients.
2) People eat WAY too much fast carbs.
Fast carbs play an important role for when you need to perform during a workout or as a post-workout meal, but other than that you don't really need them unless you want to increase your risk of getting diabetes or heart problems in the future.
We aren't really genetically designed to handle all these fast, processed carbs that we eat nowadays. People should go for slower carbs in the form of vegetables, nuts, seeds, berries and the occasional fruit.
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since we're on the topic of diet i might as well throw this question out there.
i'm trying to lean out and breakfast is really the only time i try to stuff myself. am i right in thinking i can eat as much as i want for breakfast which usually consists of some meat w/ rice + fruit and milk. i read somewhere that the more you eat during breakfast the less you tend to eat during the day.
thoughts on this??
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On January 22 2010 13:18 unknown.sam wrote:
since we're on the topic of diet i might as well throw this question out there.
i'm trying to lean out and breakfast is really the only time i try to stuff myself. am i right in thinking i can eat as much as i want for breakfast which usually consists of some meat w/ rice + fruit and milk. i read somewhere that the more you eat during breakfast the less you tend to eat during the day.
thoughts on this??
Errr, just plug all your cals into something like fitday. As long as you are on target (with a caloric deficit for loss, surplus for gain, or iso for staying the same), and eating quality foods you should be fine.
Doesn't really matter how your cals are distributed as long as it's not really weird.
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I think we're at an agreement that low total calorie intake is good for losing weight, and that high protein has its detractors and supporters. I think this is much better aggregate advice than before.
I do want to know how you can advocate a high protein low carb diet but don't recommend over-eating protein. I would also feel very bad about advocating high fat diets if it proved to have strong evidence toward long term health risks, which protein hasn't.
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EPT
