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On February 23 2013 06:37 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 06:36 Torte de Lini wrote:
Midas? really?
Those are all very expensive items. Mekansm is just the safer, more conventional item expected on a support.
I didn't see the point of getting Tranquil on Warlock since he has Shadow Word. Cheap armor and MS (Warlock's base armor is mediocre, his Agi growth is trash, and his base MS is below-average). Midas is situational, but Aghs->Refresher really is the core for pub Warlock, even when you're a support.
I always figured Mana boots would be better purely for the team as well as giving you most shadow words in lanes.
I can move Aghs to Core, but Refresher as extension. Meka will be situational.
edit: published the updated.
I credited you in nearly most of these.
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Did you just want feedback or did you want some builds for hero's you're not comfortable writing for?
Off topic, can you make multiple guides for 1 hero?
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On February 23 2013 06:42 Scaramanga wrote:
Did you just want feedback or did you want some builds for hero's you're not comfortable writing for?
Off topic, can you make multiple guides for 1 hero?
Yes, you can make multiple guides for 1 hero. The title would be different and everything.
I want feedback, but I also need help writing some builds for heros. a slow decay just wrote some for me which I'm going to do next as soon as I finish the Int section.
Right now I'm having trouble figuring the items for Pugna, but if you want, I can list you all the heros still undone and I need builds for );
edit: Leschrac published.
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Pugna is an extremely flexible hero in terms of items. But generally, %mana reg is very effective on him because of his high int gain, and he badly needs hp. Items like Urn, Mek, Eul, Drum etc. are fairly useful. Hex is a good lategame item, and Agha is situational but can be devastating against the right lineup.
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Ancient Apparition Published.
I'll do Pugna now and credit you thanks!
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On February 23 2013 05:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +Overall I just think it lacks a bit on when and why to build some items, you have to consider that people that read this things will follow them blindly. It's why you see people playing Sylla starting with a full headress because the guide says so, and why people would build desolator first every game if it is a core item for Lanaya. There is no room to write why and when to build these items. If I want to list all of its uses in addition to common scenarios, I cannot fit a why and when. The why is sometimes written within the author's note, but Valve literally does not offer enough characters to fit a "When"
The writters note is what I meant. You often wrote nothing or just explained why that item is good, when I feel something like "get this when you are underfarmed/the enemy has a lot of disables/need the extra health, armor or damage" would be more helpful for someone that needs a guide.
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On February 23 2013 07:13 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 05:24 Torte de Lini wrote:Overall I just think it lacks a bit on when and why to build some items, you have to consider that people that read this things will follow them blindly. It's why you see people playing Sylla starting with a full headress because the guide says so, and why people would build desolator first every game if it is a core item for Lanaya. There is no room to write why and when to build these items. If I want to list all of its uses in addition to common scenarios, I cannot fit a why and when. The why is sometimes written within the author's note, but Valve literally does not offer enough characters to fit a "When" The writters note is what I meant. You often wrote nothing or just explained why that item is good, when I feel something like "get this when you are underfarmed/the enemy has a lot of disables/need the extra health, armor or damage" would be more helpful for someone that needs a guide.
For situational, I try and clarify when to get these items.
For core items, typically they're needed as soon as possible in that order.
Let me take a look at Razor again. Any other heros?
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United States47024 Posts
Mid AA should start Tango+Salve+4 Branches, and should get stats at 2 and 4. Vortex isn't mana-efficient in solo lanes. Chilling Touch isn't a "leave till 22-25" skill anymore, you generally get some Stats midgame, but you can start leveling it once you and other supports are comfortable enough with your survivability to reliably use all the charges.
3xBranch->Bottle rush is for mids that have reliable nukes to guarantee lasthits for a pre-2 minute Bottle. AA doesn't have this, so it's better to start with more stats/regen.
Mek+Force should be core and Urn+Eul's should be situational, not the other way round.
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Pugna published, let me look over AA
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On February 23 2013 07:16 TheYango wrote:
Mid AA should start Tango+Salve+4 Branches, and should get stats at 2 and 4. Vortex isn't mana-efficient in solo lanes. Chilling Touch isn't a "leave till 22-25" skill anymore, you generally get some Stats midgame, but you can start leveling it once you and other supports are comfortable enough with your survivability to reliably use all the charges.
3xBranch->Bottle rush is for mids that have reliable nukes to guarantee lasthits for a pre-2 minute Bottle. AA doesn't have this, so it's better to start with more stats/regen.
Mek+Force should be core and Urn+Eul's should be situational, not the other way round.
Yeah I don't understand why Eul's would no longer be core.
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United States47024 Posts
Because it doesn't do that much. You pay a lot of gold for mediocre stats just to get the cute Euls+Cold Feet combo. Mek/Force have more up-front utility.
At the very least, Atos gives better stats while accomplishing more or less the same thing now.
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On February 23 2013 07:23 TheYango wrote:
Because it doesn't do that much. You pay a lot of gold for mediocre stats just to get the cute Euls+Cold Feet combo. Mek/Force have more up-front utility.
At the very least, Atos gives better stats while accomplishing more or less the same thing now.
The cost is 500 more and it offers more mana regen, int stat and movement speed.
I put atos as luxury, but I really like that item on AA.
I updated AA with the ability build changes.
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Visage added, I'm going to take a small break because I've been doing this for the past 4-5 hours.
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Sorry for the triple post, but I'm back and just released Pudge, Dragon Knight and Skeleton King.
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Disruptor (Lane) - Bottle as Core?
I think Dazzle's core is bloated with arcanes, mek, pipe AND force staff, while other support's core is just boots & mek (i.e. kotl) with pipe, force staff etc moved to situational.
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On February 23 2013 08:47 Zocat wrote:
Disruptor (Lane) - Bottle as Core?
I think Dazzle's core is bloated with arcanes, mek, pipe AND force staff, while other support's core is just boots & mek (i.e. kotl) with pipe, force staff etc moved to situational.
You're right. Force should be situational.
Meka, Pipe are core but should be indicated to alternate if need-be with other support heros.
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United States47024 Posts
Don't get Helm on Dragon Knight. Maelstrom/Mjollnir is the superior orb for farming. Helm allows you to stack/farm ancients, but Maelstrom allows you to farm everything else faster (push faster, jungle faster, etc.).
Heart is better on Dragon Knight than Satanic. Halberd and MKB are situational.
With regard to skill order, it's very common that you won't get rank 2 ult at 11, and unless there are specifically heroes you need long stuns against (e.g. Blink heroes), Stats is better than Dragon Tail.
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On February 23 2013 08:51 TheYango wrote:
Don't get Helm on Dragon Knight. Maelstrom/Mjollnir is the superior orb for farming. Helm allows you to stack/farm ancients, but Maelstrom allows you to farm everything else faster (push faster, jungle faster, etc.).
Heart is better on Dragon Knight than Satanic.
I'll change it, same cost too.
Updated the rest too.
Lycan published.
Chaos Knight published.
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Yeah I mentioned skipping level 11 ult unless you need it to clear stacked ancient camp.
I'm not sold on Maelstrom over HoTD, although it would lead to faster farming (although if your supports dont stack for you I very much prefer HoTD) I really like Satanic if your DK gets that farmed and if he doesn't then HoTD is good by itself. I will play around with Mael though, interesting.
The strength of DK in the mid-game with Drums/Phase/HoTD is intense and I tend to play him as a #2 so after I have that core I prefer to be more active on the map while my #1 farms. Interesting thoughts though Yango.
Edit: TDL I think it's worth it to mention how incredibly strong Pudge is during barracks sieges, I know that in my semi-serious scrims with my friends that our best pudge player makes engaging on an enemy tier 3 an incredibly daunting task and I believe it's one of the greatest strengths of pudge as the game moves into that phase.
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United States47024 Posts
If you're playing 2nd position then you're typically going to develop with something like Treads->Drum->BKB or Pipe->AC. You're going to eschew farming items altogether and focus on maximizing teamfighting effectiveness at all stages. HotD is not effective for this because it is by and large a farming item.
One thing i forgot to mention is that Lothar's should be mentioned as a situational item. Lothar's DK is popular in Pinoy DotA, and it is quite effective in pubs due to its high solo-killing ability.
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EPT
