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gonna repost what i said on your brood build
Soul ring recipe first ALWAYS. Better starting items are SR recipe / Tangoes / Sentry wards / 3xBranches. QB is good if you know their lane is weak enough that you can cs and deny, and actually helps immensely once you start poking in and out of jungle. Plus cutting down trees for extra vision (dire side) / secret side shop spot (radiant side) is useful. If the lane is easy for you as brood starting SR recipe / Tangoes / QB / 2xBranches is good. Never start off with Ring of Regen because Tangoes will give you more regen if you actually need it early on and you can buy the ring at the side shop anyway.
I think your skill build on Brood is a bit situational. Generally you will not need to get Ulti at 6, but delaying it should be a conscious decision rather than the normal build. You take ulti whenever you feel like it will help you get a kill or push down a tower, which often comes at lvl 6~8. Your extension items need to include AC and Manta, as those will boost Brood's utility/dps more than MKB or Daedalus.
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On February 23 2013 04:26 synapse wrote:
gonna repost what i said on your brood build
Soul ring recipe first ALWAYS. Better starting items are SR recipe / Tangoes / Sentry wards / 3xBranches. QB is good if you know their lane is weak enough that you can cs and deny, and actually helps immensely once you start poking in and out of jungle. Plus cutting down trees for extra vision (dire side) / secret side shop spot (radiant side) is useful. If the lane is easy for you as brood starting SR recipe / Tangoes / QB / 2xBranches is good. Never start off with Ring of Regen because Tangoes will give you more regen if you actually need it early on and you can buy the ring at the side shop anyway.
I think your skill build on Brood is a bit situational. Generally you will not need to get Ulti at 6, but delaying it should be a conscious decision rather than the normal build. You take ulti whenever you feel like it will help you get a kill or push down a tower, which often comes at lvl 6~8. Your extension items need to include AC and Manta, as those will boost Brood's utility/dps more than MKB or Daedalus.
Yep, it's been updated. I just have to publish the changes. Give me a minute then take a look!
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On February 23 2013 04:28 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:26 synapse wrote:
gonna repost what i said on your brood build
Soul ring recipe first ALWAYS. Better starting items are SR recipe / Tangoes / Sentry wards / 3xBranches. QB is good if you know their lane is weak enough that you can cs and deny, and actually helps immensely once you start poking in and out of jungle. Plus cutting down trees for extra vision (dire side) / secret side shop spot (radiant side) is useful. If the lane is easy for you as brood starting SR recipe / Tangoes / QB / 2xBranches is good. Never start off with Ring of Regen because Tangoes will give you more regen if you actually need it early on and you can buy the ring at the side shop anyway.
I think your skill build on Brood is a bit situational. Generally you will not need to get Ulti at 6, but delaying it should be a conscious decision rather than the normal build. You take ulti whenever you feel like it will help you get a kill or push down a tower, which often comes at lvl 6~8. Your extension items need to include AC and Manta, as those will boost Brood's utility/dps more than MKB or Daedalus. Yep, it's been updated. I just have to publish the changes. Give me a minute then take a look!
haha np 
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Steam Cloud is so slow. Takes at least 50 seconds to load a page.
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On February 23 2013 04:30 Torte de Lini wrote:
Steam Cloud is so slow. Takes at least 50 seconds to load a page.
I was noticing that... Is it always like this?
Also, if its all the same to you I don't have any desire to be "credited" at the bottom of the guides
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On February 23 2013 04:34 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:30 Torte de Lini wrote:
Steam Cloud is so slow. Takes at least 50 seconds to load a page. I was noticing that... Is it always like this? Also, if its all the same to you I don't have any desire to be "credited" at the bottom of the guides
It wasn't last night when it was first released T_T
Ok, I'll stop doing it~
broodmother updated
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Disruptor published.
Keeper of the Light published.
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Your author note for bloodrage (on BS) calls it Blood Bath.
Your troll guide intro needs some proofreading as well. ("...an incredible low cooldown global ultimate that allows extends his attack speed to reach near maximum speed!")
If you don't care about nitpicks like this let me know and I'll ignore them.
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United States47024 Posts
As a general note, it starts to get really cumbersome to give criticism when you publish guides faster than people can critique them.
I think it would be easier to get the guides to a good state if you make sure the existing ones are 100% where they need to be before you add new ones.
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On February 23 2013 04:55 TheYango wrote:
As a general note, it starts to get really cumbersome to give criticism when you publish guides faster than people can critique them.
I think it would be easier to get the guides to a good state if you make sure the existing ones are 100% where they need to be before you add new ones.
The issue is is that I can't be guaranteed that any and all guides will be criticized to the point of general acceptance. Additionally, I work in a three-step program where I publish one, start the other and revise the wordings on most of them in the Steam Workshop site.
The pace of which I receive criticisms depends on the time of day and its best to publish them, receive the criticisms, then make the changes while its still public. The guides need to be published in order for you guys to see them, otherwise its just text.
I work fast enough in all three state to maintain consistent production to weave through most of these guides.
On February 23 2013 04:53 Sn0_Man wrote:
Your author note for bloodrage (on BS) calls it Blood Bath.
Your troll guide intro needs some proofreading as well. ("...an incredible low cooldown global ultimate that allows extends his attack speed to reach near maximum speed!")
If you don't care about nitpicks like this let me know and I'll ignore them.
I CARE! THanks! I'm doing it now!
edit: Bane published.
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Hmmm, I always thought kotl stopped at 3 chakra until he had max illuminate and 1 in ulti since at level 3 chakra can essentially sustain non-stop illuminates.
So like
1 Illuminate
2 Chakra
3 Chakra
4 Illuminate
5 Chakra
6 Ulti/Illuminate
7 Illuminate
8 Ulti/Illuminate
9 Chakra
10 Leak
11 Ulti
etc
EDIT: Disraptor isn't showing any items?
Also, A tip is that the last tick of his thunder strike goes off 4 seconds after you cast it, so this can be used to estimate glimpse timings. (aka blast him where you want to glimpse him back to, then glimpse him when blast ends). Dunno where/how you would fit that in.
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United States47024 Posts
It depends on the laner and how well they use Chakra.
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On February 23 2013 05:02 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 04:55 TheYango wrote:
As a general note, it starts to get really cumbersome to give criticism when you publish guides faster than people can critique them.
I think it would be easier to get the guides to a good state if you make sure the existing ones are 100% where they need to be before you add new ones. The issue is is that I can't be guaranteed that any and all guides will be criticized to the point of general acceptance. Additionally, I work in a three-step program where I publish one, start the other and revise the wordings on most of them in the Steam Workshop site. The pace of which I receive criticisms depends on the time of day and its best to publish them, receive the criticisms, then make the changes while its still public. The guides need to be published in order for you guys to see them, otherwise its just text. I work fast enough in all three state to maintain consistent production to weave through most of these guides.
I think the issue with this kind of thinking is that you end up publishing a lot of average guides but few great ones. Considering the amount of guides that I assume will be published fairly quickly, that seems like a waste.
For example, just looking at the ones you think are perfect or near perfect:
Sniper: Lothars as an essential item, but in the discription you say it's situational if you need an escape. Is it situational or is it a core item? While at the same times your situational items lack any kind of explanation on why they are situational and when you should buy a desolator or HotD.
Razor: Vanguard on ranged at all seems like a waste most of the time, but at least you explained that. Still, you should mention Pipe if you consider Hood core, and it should give you better benefits than a late Vanguard.
For me, the way someone fairly new would read this kind of guides is: Start with starting items, quickly build you basic items and work towards your essential items. Only after you have them with get your situational/luxury items. For your Razor guide, if I were a newbie, what I would probally do is get either Hood or Mek before thinking of Vanguard, maybe both, and by then it is kinda late for it.
Overall I just think it lacks a bit on when and why to build some items, you have to consider that people that read this things will follow them blindly. It's why you see people playing Sylla starting with a full headress because the guide says so, and why people would build desolator first every game if it is a core item for Lanaya.
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Quick note, Mek is in no way core on CM.
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Overall I just think it lacks a bit on when and why to build some items, you have to consider that people that read this things will follow them blindly. It's why you see people playing Sylla starting with a full headress because the guide says so, and why people would build desolator first every game if it is a core item for Lanaya.
There is no room to write why and when to build these items. If I want to list all of its uses in addition to common scenarios, I cannot fit a why and when. The why is sometimes written within the author's note, but Valve literally does not offer enough characters to fit a "When"
On February 23 2013 05:22 maru~ wrote:
Quick note, Mek is in no way core on CM.
Yep, being changed.
edit: Lich Published.
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On Dazzle, I think getting 3 levels of poison should take precedence over shadow weave. Shadow weave's damage in fights is inconsistent due to the way it works, and in early fights a slow/stun is slightly more useful than a burst heal, though that depends on whether you're playing aggressively or defensively.
For Bounty Hunter, I think a second level of Jinada is more damage effective than a third level of shuriken, since the damage jump from level 2/3 on shuriken isn't that much, and honestly isn't worth the mana cost increase.
I personally max orbs on Wisp before tether, but I only play Wisp if I'm laning with someone with their own stun/slow where quick burst damage is more valuable than a stun length increase, so I'm not sure if that's a comprehensive build.
On KotL I'd prefer to get my ultimate at level 6 and delay the fourth level of chakra, since I think the blind and TP are infinitely more useful than the little extra mana that's usually not vital.
On Ogre, I'd move Aghs off core items, it's a waste of money before any big mana item and level 16 since you'll just end up eating all your mana away for no reason.
Picking Axe should always be accompanied with "i mid i tank this good champ pls dont noob".
And yeah that's the heroes I play sometimes that have different builds to yours. I'm by no means an expert, actually good or sober so take it with a grain of salt.
oh and also on bane and razor, damage steal is the best level 1 skill to get if you're mid/not in a defensive tri since it'll cripple their csing early. static link > plasma field on the first level
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On February 23 2013 05:33 RockIronrod wrote:
On Dazzle, I think getting 3 levels of poison should take precedence over shadow weave. Shadow weave's damage in fights is inconsistent due to the way it works, and in early fights a slow/stun is slightly more useful than a burst heal, though that depends on whether you're playing aggressively or defensively.
For Bounty Hunter, I think a second level of Jinada is more damage effective than a third level of shuriken, since the damage jump from level 2/3 on shuriken isn't that much, and honestly isn't worth the mana cost increase.
I personally max orbs on Wisp before tether, but I only play Wisp if I'm laning with someone with their own stun/slow where quick burst damage is more valuable than a stun length increase, so I'm not sure if that's a comprehensive build.
On KotL I'd prefer to get my ultimate at level 6 and delay the fourth level of chakra, since I think the blind and TP are infinitely more useful than the little extra mana that's usually not vital.
On Ogre, I'd move Aghs off core items, it's a waste of money before any big mana item and level 16 since you'll just end up eating all your mana away for no reason.
Picking Axe should always be accompanied with "i mid i tank this good champ pls dont noob".
And yeah that's the heroes I play sometimes that have different builds to yours. I'm by no means an expert, actually good or sober so take it with a grain of salt.
I was hesitant on Ogre Magi Agh as core. What do you think his core should be?
I play Wisp a fair lot and I prefer maxing tether, but maxing spirits is also good. I think that really depends.
edit: fixing Disruptor now, thanks!
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I was under the impression it was customary for puck to get 1 in phase shift at level 2 to avoid nukes and win harass wars, but I admit I don't play a ton of puck. I've seen pros level it
1) Orb
2) phase shift
3) Silence
4) Orb
5) Orb
6) Ult
etc
Max orb then silence, ulti whenever possible. I feel like for a generic guide having the dodge capability early may be more applicable than the max nuke build against *most* mid opponents.
Oh yeah your ogre build has a stout shield at the start but IMO he should use that 250g for wards OR courier and a salve. Ogre shouldn't really be getting right clicked in lane too much and he is definitely a support.
I'm aware that you can't do A "or" B items in these guides though 
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On February 23 2013 05:40 Sn0_Man wrote:I was under the impression it was customary for puck to get 1 in phase shift at level 2 to avoid nukes and win harass wars, but I admit I don't play a ton of puck. I've seen pros level it 1) Orb 2) phase shift 3) Silence 4) Orb 5) Orb 6) Ult etc Max orb then silence, ulti whenever possible. I feel like for a generic guide having the dodge capability early may be more applicable than the max nuke build against *most* mid opponents. Oh yeah your ogre build has a stout shield at the start but IMO he should use that 250g for wards OR courier and a salve. Ogre shouldn't really be getting right clicked in lane too much and he is definitely a support. I'm aware that you can't do A "or" B items in these guides though
I put both for courrier/Wards with the author's note indicating to get one or the other. Hopefully people will read.
And you're right, that is a mistake of mine
Published Lich, updated Disruptor.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Armlet is definitely NOT a core item on Night Stalker. It is at best situational. Stick/wand situational. Luxury includes Heart aswell.
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EPT
