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On February 23 2013 05:43 Kipsate wrote:
Armlet is definitely NOT a core item on Night Stalker. It is at best situational.
Originally, I had intended Aghnamin's to be core on Night Stalker, but it never really panned out in my favour to the item's cost.
Armlet ended up becoming more core for me due to its ease to snag it piece-by-piece and its great use for those ganks in lanes.
I understand the importance and use of Aghanmin's on Night Stalker, but can the average person get it at a sufficient time or can they rely on Armlet first and then work towards Aghnamins?
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United States47024 Posts
If you want a "generic" 2-item core for Night Stalker, it should be BKB-AC.
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Why would armlet be situational I guess is what I'm asking.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Armlet isn't bad but it delays your BKB by a significant amount of time. By the time you have half a BKB you actually need that BKB really badly to fight. In fact the average person as you pointed out will have difficulty even getting the BKB if he is going for Armlet first while he definitely needs that BKB. not getting Aghanims as a core is the same principle as the armlet, by the time you have the Agha you actually need the BKB really badly and won't have it.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2013 05:47 Torte de Lini wrote:
Why would armlet be situational I guess is what I'm asking.
The item is 100% DPS oriented, and quite frequently, a pure damage item is not what you want/need out of your 2nd/3rd item as Night Stalker. The most common options are map control/team utility items (Vlad's/AC/Aghs).
Lich: Mek is only core if you have solo farm or no one else is getting it. Typically Urn/Force should be considered. Ghost Scepter is situational.
Skill order is typically Nova>Sacrifice, with Sacrifice at 1, and maybe at 3. Often you leave Sacrifice at 2 or 3 and finish Nova and Frost Armor before getting the last rank because you don't need 4th rank Sacrifice to use all your spells.
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So if I add Armlet to situational, what would be the reasoning as. I can state that getting it delays your much needed BKB, but what would be the upside?
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United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2013 05:51 Torte de Lini wrote:
So if I add Armlet to situational, what would be the reasoning as. I can state that getting it delays your much needed BKB, but what would be the upside?
It's a lot of cost-efficient damage. There are games where you JUST need damage-dealing ability, and Armlet is a cheap, cost-efficient way to get it. But generally the other common options bring other things to the table (Vlad's/AC auras, Agh's map control).
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adding wand to the following heros: Axe
Clockwerk
Nightstalker
Undying
Sniper
Bounty Hunter
Broodmother
edit: I've added Armlet to situational with the benefits and faults.
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For lich, I recommend leaving sacrifice at level 2 for quite a while.
Something like
1) Sacrifice
2) Nuke
3) Sacrifice
4) Nuke
5) Nuke
6) Ult
7) Nuke
8) Armor
Sac
Sac
Ult
Armor
etc
The reason being that at level 2, sacrifice has a short enough CD to deny 1 creep per wave. You don't really improve upon this much by putting more levels into it whereas 1 level of armor is really strong and obviously the nuke is good to level etc. Yes you *can* run out of mana with this build but you have more burst and utility, and you deny the same amount of XP basically.
Also, I strongly disagree with autocast ice armor. The logic for when it casts can interrupt you doing important things and also only casts it once a target is taking damage. The goal is to pre-emptively keep it up on as many heroes as possible (usually the ones in the front lines). To be clear, autocast ice armor WILL GET YOU KILLED because it interrupts your actions in a fight to cast your lowest-priority spell.
Double Edit: I'd look to emphasize that you should use sacrifice even when at full mana to deny experience to your opponents. This is a non-obvious bonus to the spell that newer players may not grasp without a bit of help.
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I'll add that idea to the Lich sacrifice, but I think I might keep it alternating between Sacrifice and nuke.
edit: Engima published.
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Your Bounty Hunter guide is pretty eh. You really don't want to level up the Shuriken like that because of the way it scales. Level 1 and 2 scale fantastically, level 3 and 4 are too mana intensive for the extra damage until later in the game. Especially in a 1v2 offlane or a suicide lane, mana is an issue when getting LHs and having a 3rd or 4th level in Shuriken level is detrimental. Going Shadow Walk, Jinada, Shuriken, Shuriken is a good start but you're better off avoiding the final levels of your Shuriken until 11-13 or so.
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United States47024 Posts
Bane: Not sure why you're starting RoP and not building it into anything. The hero starts with 4 base armor, he doesn't need more.
Typically Bottle is better than Soul Ring if you're mid. If you're a support, the Soul Ring is questionable because you're spending 800 gold on a no-stats item.
You aren't in a hurry to max Enfeeble after your other two skills are maxed. The mana cost scales really aggressively, and there has to be a carry strong enough for it to be worth using on. Generally after rank 1 Enfeeble, a couple points of Stats are taken before maxing the skill.
Force+Necro is an ok-ish core. Mek, Ghost Scepter, Dagon, possibly Blink should be situational items.
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On February 23 2013 06:18 Venomsflame wrote:
Your Bounty Hunter guide is pretty eh. You really don't want to level up the Shuriken like that because of the way it scales. Level 1 and 2 scale fantastically, level 3 and 4 are too mana intensive for the extra damage until later in the game. Especially in a 1v2 offlane or a suicide lane, mana is an issue when getting LHs and having a 3rd or 4th level in Shuriken level is detrimental. Going Shadow Walk, Jinada, Shuriken, Shuriken is a good start but you're better off avoiding the final levels of your Shuriken until 11-13 or so.
Believe me, there have been too many people disagreeing and agreeing with BH. A lot of people support leveling Shuriken and others preferring maxing Jinada or Shadow Walk.
Personally, I like maxing Jinada first.
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On February 23 2013 06:20 TheYango wrote:
Bane: Not sure why you're starting RoP and not building it into anything. The hero starts with 4 base armor, he doesn't need more.
Typically Bottle is better than Soul Ring if you're mid. If you're a support, the Soul Ring is questionable because you're spending 800 gold on a no-stats item.
You aren't in a hurry to max Enfeeble after your other two skills are maxed. The mana cost scales really aggressively, and there has to be a carry strong enough for it to be worth using on. Generally after rank 1 Enfeeble, a couple points of Stats are taken before maxing the skill.
Force+Necro is an ok-ish core. Mek, Ghost Scepter, Dagon, possibly Blink should be situational items.
Should be a ring of regen. Fixing!
The guide is for Bane lane because he works so well with nightmare and other heros that can stun and such.
I maxed Enfeeble for the sake of consistency and feeling. Otherwise it gets too situational.
You like Soul Ring because it does what Bottle does without any real repercussions. Its similar to bottle, but 200 and no refill needed. It's a fair trade.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2013 06:20 Torte de Lini wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2013 06:18 Venomsflame wrote:
Your Bounty Hunter guide is pretty eh. You really don't want to level up the Shuriken like that because of the way it scales. Level 1 and 2 scale fantastically, level 3 and 4 are too mana intensive for the extra damage until later in the game. Especially in a 1v2 offlane or a suicide lane, mana is an issue when getting LHs and having a 3rd or 4th level in Shuriken level is detrimental. Going Shadow Walk, Jinada, Shuriken, Shuriken is a good start but you're better off avoiding the final levels of your Shuriken until 11-13 or so. Believe me, there have been too many people disagreeing and agreeing with BH. A lot of people support leveling Shuriken and others preferring maxing Jinada or Shadow Walk. Personally, I like maxing Jinada first.
It really depends on the types of games you're playing. Jinada-max is strong if you're playing the types of games where an off-laner can get reliable lasthits (or you somehow got to play BH as a safe lane carry) because the enemy team isn't controlling the lane well or attempting to deny you that hard--so you can get items up. But if you're in the kind of games where you're going to have Boots+Bottle+Wand at 6-7 mins, and at the same time you need to be in teamfights in the level 7-11 range, Jinada just isn't going to be useful because with those items you're just going to be insta-killed if you run up to use Jinada. This is why Shuriken-max became the norm in high-level play, because while on paper it's less efficient to level Shuriken past 2 ranks, it's a far more practical skill to use in those early fights. Your priority is staying alive and getting to use Track on every kill, and not relying on Jinada for your damage makes this far easier.
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I think Jinada max first is better for these guides simply because these guides are aimed towards newer/pub players. Just my personal thought on it though.
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United States47024 Posts
Arcanes is unnecessary, Warlock's mana demand isn't that high. Either Tranquils or stick with brown boots.
Don't bother with Mek on pub Warlock. Midas->Aghs->Refresher is the tried and true Chinese pub build.
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Midas? really?
Those are all very expensive items. Mekansm is just the safer, more conventional item expected on a support.
I didn't see the point of getting Tranquil on Warlock since he has Shadow Word.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 23 2013 06:36 Torte de Lini wrote:
Midas? really?
Those are all very expensive items. Mekansm is just the safer, more conventional item expected on a support.
I didn't see the point of getting Tranquil on Warlock since he has Shadow Word.
Cheap armor and MS (Warlock's base armor is mediocre, his Agi growth is trash, and his base MS is below-average).
Midas is situational, but Aghs->Refresher really is the core for pub Warlock, even when you're a support.
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EPT
