In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 38

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 09:27 GMT

#741

On December 19 2013 18:25 Firebolt145 wrote:
Your link is to Io.

I'm not sure if you completely removed it because I didn't look but wand is definitely almost mandatory on her.

Maelstrom is generally a bad late game damage item, which is when you'll be looking for a damage item. Mkb and daedalus are much stronger at that point.

I did remove it, but it was error because I was reading IO's description by mistake.

Guide should be properly updated in full.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129204328

+ Show Spoiler +

Still to Verify

[quote]Puck:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Puck Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Added Situational Items tab
Moved Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational items
Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items (to verify validity)
Added Descriptions for Ghost Scepter, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Linken's Sphere, Mekansm, Scythe of Vyse, Shiva's Guard

Batrider:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Batrider Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Moved Magic Wand from Early Game to Core Items (after Phase Boots)
Removed Arcane Boots from Situational Items
Removed Tranquil Boots from Core Items
Added Phase Boots to Core Items (to verify validity)
Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items (to verify validity)
Added Descriptions for Iron Branch, Black King Bar, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Linken's Sphere, Tranquil Boots

Skywrath Mage:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Skywrath Mage Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Added Mantle of Intelligence to Starting Items (to verify validity)
Removed Bloodstone from Situational Items
Moved Rod of Atos from Core items to Situational Items (to verify validity)
Removed Orchid Malevolence from Situational Items
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items (to verify validity)
Moved Veil of Discord to Core items
Added Aghanim's Scepter as Extension Items
Added Descriptions for Iron Branch, Aghanim's Scepter and Shiva's Guard.

Treant Protector:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Skeleton King Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Added Descriptions for Shiva's Guard, Pipe of Insight, Linken's Sphere
Added Urn of Shadows to Early Game (to verify validity)
Added Description for Urn of Shadows
Removed Luxury Items section
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items
Removed Assault Cuirass
Added Linken's Sphere to Extension Items (to verify validity)

Meepo: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Meepo Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Removed Iron Branch and Vladmir's Offering
Updated Descriptions for Aghanim's Scepter, Mekansm, Ethreal Blade, Earthbind, Geostrike and United We Stand
New Skill Build: QWWRWEWQQQREEE (Max Poof, one in Geostrike at 6, Max Earthbind)

Brewmaster: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Brewmaster Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Moved Drums of Endurance from Situational Items to Core Items (to verify validity)
Moved Blink Dagger from Core Items to Situational Items (to verify validity)
Added Butterfly to Extension Items
Removed Iron Branch and Shiva's Guard
Updated Descriptions for: Aghanim's Scepter, Blink Dagger, Drums of Endurance, Assault Cuirass, Thunder Clap, Drunken Haze and Primal Split.

Invoker: (to verify validity)

Silencer: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Silencer Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
New Skill Build: EQEQEREQQWRWWW (Max E then Q then W) (to verify validity)
Updated Descriptions for Glaives of Wisdom

Tusk:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Tusk Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Removed Shadow Blade
Added Desolater to Core Items (to verify validity)
Updated Descriptions for Desolator, Frozen Sigil

Bloodseeker: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Bloodseeker Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Removed Shadow Blade, Removed Diffusal Blade, Power Treads
Added Descriptions for Sange & Yasha and Desolator
New Skill Build:

Ursa: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Ursa Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Removed Tranquil Boots from Early Game
Added Tango to Early Game
Removed Scythe of Vyse
to add: Ursa Lane Guide

Dazzle:
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Dazzle Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Moved Soul Ring to Situational
Added Clarity, 3x Iron Branches and Tango to Starting Items
Moved Pipe of Insight to Situational Items
Added Sentry Ward to Core Items
Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items
Removed Medallion of Courage
New Skill Build: WEQQQRQWWWREEER (Max Q, One in W and E before 6, max W then E) (to verify validity)

Naga Siren: (to verify validity)
Added tag 6.79 - Standard Naga Siren Build in the title.
Added Tab: "Contributors" to add some credit to major contributors
Moved Mekansm to Core Items (to verify validity)
Removed Quelling Blade from Starting items
Added Clarity, Healing Salve and Ring of Protection to Starting Items (to verify validity)
Removed Poor Man's Shield, Daedlus and Butterfly (to verify validity)
Added Ring of Aquila to Early Game (to verify validity)
Added Urn of Shadows, Heaven's Halberd and Medallion of Courage to Situational (to verify validity)
Moved Assault Cuirass to Extension Items (to verify validity)
Updated Descriptions for Urn of Shadows, Medallion of Courage, Assault Cuirass and Manta Style

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34507 Posts

December 19 2013 10:06 GMT

#742

I'd stick aghs in situational since it's not gotten in most games.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 10:06 GMT

#743

On December 19 2013 19:06 Firebolt145 wrote:
I'd stick aghs in situational since it's not gotten in most games.

I was debating that as well, but ultimately left it in. I wish there was a "highly-suggested situational" section haha

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34507 Posts

December 19 2013 10:09 GMT

#744

It's not even a highly suggested situational. It's inferior to orchids and sheep unless you absolutely need the 40 sec CD on your ult.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 10:19 GMT

#745

I'll swap it down to situational, but to be honest; it hardly sounds situational at all.

Extension Items is also lacking some suggested items.

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34507 Posts

December 19 2013 10:30 GMT

#746

It doesn't matter because QoP is ALL about what items fit what situation, at least after bottle and treads. Orchids is the most useful for early ganks. Rushing a sheep after that is amazing but sometimes you cannot do it because you need a bkb to survive in team fights. Or perhaps you're against bkb-piercing single target spells such as doom or roar or fiends grip, in which case you need to get an early linkens instead. Or perhaps you're doing extremely well in the lane, with lots of squishy heroes on the enemy team and no desperate need of a silence, in which case rushing a dagon can completely obliterate the enemy team early. And after you've gotten a bkb, perhaps your team has enough disables and you need to start providing more damage, in which case you'd immediately start on an mkb.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 10:43 GMT

#747

I'll keep Agh as Extension and Dagon as Situational. With Extension being late-game item choices.

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34507 Posts

December 19 2013 10:47 GMT

#748

Aghs is perhaps the weakest late gate item choice in her though. :/

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 10:51 GMT

#749

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

then extension only has 1 item in there.

I just removed Agh's, it's really not that needed.
moved mkb to extension

idonthinksobro

3138 Posts

December 19 2013 11:45 GMT

#750

about null talisman, quite often players start with null talisman and pooled tangos, into bottle. Personally i prefer that over tango + 3 branches into bottle, it makes last hitting way easier and if you have a tough matchup in mid it helps a ton. I would at least list it as situational.

Firebolt145

Lalalaland34507 Posts

December 19 2013 12:24 GMT

#751

If you're doing a guide for basic players in pubs, you're not going to be telling them to expect pooled tangos. It's even harder to illustrate that in a steam guide as well.

NotYango

United States719 Posts

December 19 2013 16:55 GMT

#752

Regardless, I'd never go 3 Branch bottle rush on QoP. At the very least, I'd go 4, and usually 3 Branch + Mantle or Circlet.

You have to understand the mindset of skimping on stats level 1 to decide on starting items. Starts that get heavy stats and spend all your gold are intent on winning the lane. They want to establish a stat advantage level 1 and use that stat advantage to put pressure on the opposing mid. They expect to get lane control, so they don't worry about having to save for Bottle because with lane control, they'll get easy lasthits and have their Bottle before running out of regen anyway. Stat-light starts that save gold on the other hand, do not expect to lasthit that easily. Their goal is to get that Bottle as fast as possible, even expecting that they will only get 2-3 lasthits on the first few waves, and then use Bottle-crowing to stalemate.

Think which of these applies to QoP. With the exception of a small number of unfavorable lanes, the vast majority of QoP lanes involve her applying heavy pressure beginning at level 1. A stat-light Bottle rush start almost never makes sense for this hero.

EDIT: Regarding items, your extension/situational items are woefully inadequate here. I don't expect some obscure follow-ups like Armlet, but Shiva's and AC definitely need to be listed. Honestly, Shiva's is a more common Orchid+BKB follow-up than MKB is.

On December 19 2013 19:47 Firebolt145 wrote:
Aghs is perhaps the weakest late gate item choice in her though. :/

Agh should be bought first item if t all, and is honestly too situational to bother with in a guide like this.

Plansix

United States60190 Posts

December 19 2013 17:04 GMT

#753

Hey, just some thoughts on CM. We have see more use of her ult in pro games, but it is still skilled last in the build. Also it's not earthshakers or SKs ult, it does have uses in zoning out enemy teams and securing kills. You may want to consider changing the skill build for CM to put it earlier.

Just a thought.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 17:16 GMT

#754

I'm heading home now, I'll retouch QOP
and I'll take a look at CM. She hasn't been touched in a long while.

Jaeger

United States1150 Posts

December 19 2013 20:33 GMT

#755

The AM skill build is still incredibly wrong.

NotYango

United States719 Posts

December 19 2013 20:49 GMT

#756

AM's skill order is really situational anyway. It's not really sensible to try and make a cookie-cutter skill build for him.

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 21:36 GMT

#757

We had this AM discussion like a thousand times before. I couldn't please everyone, I'll just please the people who I trust in this particular case ):

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 21:39 GMT

#758

On December 20 2013 01:55 NotYango wrote:
Regardless, I'd never go 3 Branch bottle rush on QoP. At the very least, I'd go 4, and usually 3 Branch + Mantle or Circlet.

You have to understand the mindset of skimping on stats level 1 to decide on starting items. Starts that get heavy stats and spend all your gold are intent on winning the lane. They want to establish a stat advantage level 1 and use that stat advantage to put pressure on the opposing mid. They expect to get lane control, so they don't worry about having to save for Bottle because with lane control, they'll get easy lasthits and have their Bottle before running out of regen anyway. Stat-light starts that save gold on the other hand, do not expect to lasthit that easily. Their goal is to get that Bottle as fast as possible, even expecting that they will only get 2-3 lasthits on the first few waves, and then use Bottle-crowing to stalemate.

Think which of these applies to QoP. With the exception of a small number of unfavorable lanes, the vast majority of QoP lanes involve her applying heavy pressure beginning at level 1. A stat-light Bottle rush start almost never makes sense for this hero.

EDIT: Regarding items, your extension/situational items are woefully inadequate here. I don't expect some obscure follow-ups like Armlet, but Shiva's and AC definitely need to be listed. Honestly, Shiva's is a more common Orchid+BKB follow-up than MKB is.

Show nested quote +

Agh should be bought first item if t all, and is honestly too situational to bother with in a guide like this.

Here we go:

I added extra branch for QOP, I felt Shadow Strike was adequate in regards to stacking the amount of pressure you could apply to an opponent, even ranged heroes. Do we really have to go all out with the Null Talisman?

I'll add Shiva as Extension

Added you as contributor

synapse

China13814 Posts

December 19 2013 21:41 GMT

#759

On December 20 2013 06:39 Torte de Lini wrote:

Show nested quote +

rtz complains about them being op, must be good item

Torte de Lini

Germany38463 Posts

December 19 2013 21:41 GMT

#760

On December 20 2013 02:04 Plansix wrote:
Hey, just some thoughts on CM. We have see more use of her ult in pro games, but it is still skilled last in the build. Also it's not earthshakers or SKs ult, it does have uses in zoning out enemy teams and securing kills. You may want to consider changing the skill build for CM to put it earlier.

Just a thought.

Let's have a look.

Changed her build to get her ult at 6/11/16. Though I think some people even skip 6 right?

Now the skill build is:

WQEEQRQQWWREWER

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=128851981

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In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 38

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