In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 332

On August 24 2016 05:48 Sn0_Man wrote:

thats because neither of those items make any sense on him

On August 25 2016 04:59 Sn0_Man wrote:
Why does jungle underlord start with his worst jungling ability that makes no sense at all
or should i say why is underlord "support" guide sub titled jungle. Jungle is the subtitle to an offlane build imo.

I also think Underlord's primary lane should be mid as he literally cannot lose that lane with level 1 E.

On August 25 2016 05:51 Sn0_Man wrote:

"his biggest issue mid is that he has no escape" no thats his biggest issue offlane lolz mid its irrelevant

w pierces bkb (not the damage to my knowledge) but regardless it does 100 flat damage at all levels hows that help do ancients lmao

as support of course you get w then q then w then q never get aura and never jungle thats the point. The role that goes to the jungle is the offlane

On August 24 2016 05:52 Torte de Lini wrote:


Why not?

Vlads: Early Armour, Team Damage + Lifesteal + Mana Regen. Two of those things Underlord likes and the other two are things his team-oriented hero likes.

Blink has a variety of usefulness:

- Initiation (Stack damage from creeps, Blink on Foe, Pit + Firestorm)
- Saving Teammates: Start Rift + Blink onto ally
- Cleaner: Initiate onto enemies, let enemies die, chase almost-dead enemies with Blink to finish them in one hit with your big damage.

On August 25 2016 06:07 Torte de Lini wrote:


Having no escape offlane as opposed to middle are vastly different in terms of severity of an issue.
If I can't get close to exp. range in the offlane, I have the adjoining jungle camps to take advantage of.

I would say if you can't safely take the middle lane and are getting ganked, it has a much higher consequence of events as opposed to the Offlane. On top of that, you are most susceptible to ganks from both sides as opposed to Offlane which you can sometimes see coming (depending if they deward you or not).

Stacking Ancients:

• W doesn't do damage to the main ancient creep, but works on his minions, causing them to stack.
  
• Max Atrophy Aura reduces the damage taken from camps heavily. With Vanguard, you can take entire stacks of the camp without taking any real damage
  
• You can take the camps with the stacked damage from the lane and do Ancients at a decent pace (with Firestorm killing the smaller units

To add, saying Atrophy Aura makes you unkillable is pretty inaccurate vs. the usual mid-laners that can nuke you down.

A single point in Aura is no different than Crystal Maiden utilizing her single point in Frostbite, which she does at Level 1. To not use an early point in Atrophy Aura to take out camps meanwhile your carry lanes (and you can gank with W whenever necessary with extra damage) seems silly to me.

---

As I said before: "I'm holding off on a "mid" guide until there are more concrete results/data and he is being more regularly played/seen/countered."

On August 27 2016 07:56 Belisarius wrote:
It's not really that creative. This is what I/we originally envisaged doing for a lot of heroes when we switched to the core/support/offlane system, in order to reduce the number of guides.

There's a ton of heroes that can be played both mid and offlane in the same way. Timbersaw, sandking and huskar are examples in the TI6 meta, plus a zillion others in pubs like brew, magnus, legion, necro, veno etc.

None of them build much differently coming out of mid. Mid just starts with less regen and more lane dominance (null/quelling etc), and considers bottle. Off the top of my head, the only modern hero that has real changes to his itemisation for offlane versus core is void.

The same thing is true of safelane core versus mid core as well. We're still maintaining a dozen-odd not-quite-duplicate guides like mid/safe weaver/tiny/troll, and I don't understand why when you're already feeling burnt out.

While you're looking at underlord, I think you should consider what I said on the last page as well:

On August 25 2016 21:42 Belisarius wrote:
Either way I still don't think Vlads is core and he should probably have necro somewhere. I don't see much point in octarine. Also raindrops. Maybe consider delaying his ult to like 8 or 9 too.

The support guide needs your normal tab for wards/cour/gem etc. I'm not sold on that skill build, but his early points as a support seem pretty fluid so w/e. Probably depends whether he's afk stacking, duo roaming or sitting in lane making someone's lasthits a misery with atrophy. I'd prefer WQQWQ as default.

On August 27 2016 09:16 Belisarius wrote:
I have no idea why you're allcapsing me when there's nothing in my post that's even tangentially related to your rant.

Purge agrees with you, that's fine. I don't. He doesn't need regen to jungle like void because he has firestorm, and an early vlads is generally poor value for money in combat as many people have already explained. It's not terrible but I think there are more impactful things he can do with his gold. Plenty of people have explained that, whether you agree with them or not.

You still haven't addressed any of the other things I said. Necro's application should be obvious - he wants to be bulky and push, it makes him bulkier and pushes. Raindrops makes him unbelievably difficult to kill around ten minutes and gives needed mana regen. Octarine is a massive investment for very little return. Support stuff on the support guide should be a no-brainer.

On August 27 2016 09:34 Thetwinmasters wrote:
Ogre goes w-e for his first 2 levels

On August 27 2016 09:32 Belisarius wrote:
I'd rather see arcanes mek on the support version. Those give him bulk and build into greaves comfortably.

If you must use it, vlads makes more sense on the core version because by the time the support gets it his actual cores will be clearing the jungle themselves. It really isn't very cost effective for early pushing and supports can't afford to be inefficient with their gold at all.

On August 27 2016 10:50 Thetwinmasters wrote:
1-4-1-1 into 1-4-4-2 is fine level 1 q isn't fine though