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Well thats a design choice i wasnt familiar with, good to know.
Then obviously Refresher belongs to Extension items, not that im huge fan of it anyways like i said.
Also Situational is a bit misleading atleast for me, doesnt it mean "sometimes good, sometimes not" rather than "between these if u struggle".
I dont have a better word for it tho and im not against using the word, just little something i realized.
Or its just me and my mind turning something obvious to something completely inaccurate.
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Alchemist (Middle) Added Faerie Fire to Starting Items Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items Added Moon Shard to Extension Items Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Removed Mjollnir Removed Heart of Tarrasque Removed Blink Dagger Removed Iron Branch
Luna Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items
Nyx Assassin (Middle) Nyx Assassin (Lane) Removed Necromonicon - Level 3
Centaur Warrunner New Skill Build: Q E W W Q R W W Q Q R E E E R (1. Double Edge 2. Hoof Stomp 3. Return)
Phantom Lancer Added Stout Shield to Starting Items Added Poor Man's Shield to Early Game Removed Ring of Protection
Abaddon New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q R (1. Aphotic Shield 2. Curse of the Avernus 3. Mist Coil) Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Added Soul Ring to Core Items (Lane) Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items (Lane) Added Ring of Basilius to Core Items (Offlane) Added Quelling Blade to Core Items (Offlane) Added Echo Sabre to Core Items (Offlane) Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Vladmir's Offering to Core - Offlane Moved Aether Lens to Core Items (Lane) Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Removed Observer Ward Removed Arcane Boots Removed Urn of Shadows Removed Mekansm Removed Blade Mail Removed Shiva's Guard
Ogre Magi Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Moved Force Staff to Core Items Moved Aether Lens to Extension Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch
Chaos Knight New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q W E R R E E E R (1. Chaos Bolt 2. Reality Rift 3. Chaos Strike)
Lifestealer (Jungle) Added Echo Sabre to Core Items Added Desolator to Extension Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Removed Wind Lace
Lifestealer (Lane) Added Echo Sabre to Situational Items Added Desolator to Extension Items Removed Wind Lace
Faceless Void Added Infused Raindrop to Early Game Removed Iron Branches x2 Removed Magic Wand Removed Echo Sabre
Timbersaw New Skill Build: E W E W W R W Q Q Q R Q E E R (1. Timber Chain 2. Reactive Armor 3. Whirling Death) Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Soul Ring to "Early Game" Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game" Added Quelling Blade to Core Items Added Blink Dagger to Extension Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Enchanted Mango
Ancient Apparition (Middle) Ancient Apparition (Lane) Created New Tab: "Situational Items" Added Urn of Shadows to Early Game Added Octarine Core to Extension Items Moved Hand of Midas to "Situational Items" Moved Veil of Discord to "Situational Items" Moved Rod of Atos to "Situational Items" Moved Glimmer Cape to "Situational Items"
Tinker Added Aether Lens to Core Items Moved Bloodstone to Extension Items Removed Shiva's Guard Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity Removed Boots of Speed - Level 2
Doom (Jungle) New Skill Build: Q W E W W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Scorched Earth 2. Devour 3. Infernal Blade) Added Mekansm to Core Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Blade Mail to Situational Items Removed Tranquil Boots Removed Silver Edge Removed Drums of Endurance
Doom (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W E W W R W Q Q Q R E E E R (1. Scorched Earth 2. Devour 3. Infernal Blade) Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items Added Iron Talon to Core Items Added Shadow Blade to Core Items Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items Moved Silver Edge to Extension Items Removed Phase Boots Removed Drums of Endurance Removed Refresher Orb Removed Enchanted Mango
Spectre Created New Tab: "Core - Early Fight" Added Phase Boots to "Core - Ganking" Added Drums of Endurance to "Core - Ganking" Added Diffusal Blade - Level 1 to "Core - Ganking" Added Manta Style to "Core - Ganking" Moved Manta Style to Core Items
Huskar New Skill Build: W E W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q R (1. Burning Spear 2. Berserker's Blood 3. Inner Vitality) Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Drow Ranger Created New Tab: "Situational Items" Added Sange & Yasha to "Situational Items" Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items Moved Morbid Mask to Early Game Moved Silver Edge to "Situational Items" Removed Tome of Knowledge Removed Helm of the Dominator
Razor Added Infused Raindrop to Early Game Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch Removed Faerie Fire Removed Boots of Travel Removed Magic Wand Removed Refresher Orb Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Axe (Lane)
Axe (Jungle) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Infused Raindrop to Core Items Added Tome of Experience to "Utility Items" Added Infused Raindrop to "Utility Items" Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items" Removed Wind Lace
Elder Titan (Lane) New Skill Build: W Q Q W Q R Q E E E R E W W R (1. Natural Order 2. Echo Stomp 3. Astral Spirit) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Observer Ward to "Utility Items" Added Sentry Ward to "Utility Items" Added Dust of Appearance to "Utility Items" Added Smoke of Deceit to "Utility Items" Added Tome of Experience to "Utility Items" Added Veil of Discord to Extension Items
Elder Titan (Middle) New Skill Build: W E E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Natural Order 2. Astral Spirit 3. Echo Stomp) Added Phase Boots to Core Items Added Echo Sabre to Core Items Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Blade Mail to Extension Items Removed Power Treads Removed Heart of Tarrasque
Slark (Lane)
Slark (Middle) Added Quelling Blade to Early Game Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items Removed Skull Basher
Riki Added Faerie Fire x2 to Starting Items Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items Moved Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items Removed Healing Salve Removed Echo Sabre Removed Skull Basher Removed Daedalus
Necrophos Added Null Talisman to Starting Items Added Arcane Boots to Core Items Added Power Treads Core - "Aggressive" Added Veil of Discord to Core - "Aggressive" Added Wind Lace to Situational Items Added Rod of Atos to Situational Items Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items Moved Blade Mail to Situational Items Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Healing Salve Removed Power Treads Removed Dagon - Level 1 Removed Silver Edge Removed Ethereal Blade
Phantom Assassin New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Stifling Dagger 2. Phantom Strike 3. Blur) Added Tango to Starting Items Added Boots of Speed to Early Game Added Blight Stone to Early Game Added Phase Boots to Core Items Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Situational Items Added Manta Style to Situational Items Added Desolator to Extension Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items Removed Ring of Protection Removed Healing Salve Removed Power Treads Removed Skull Basher Removed Helm of the Dominator Removed Monkey King Bar
Ember Spirit (Middle) Added Poor Man's Shield to Starting Items Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Iron Branch Removed Healing Salve
Ember Spirit (Lane) Added Poor Man's Shield to Starting Items Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Iron Branch Removed Healing Salve
Slardar Created New Tab: "Early Game" Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Boots of Speed to Early Game Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items Added Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Iron Talon to "Early Game" Moved Armlet of Mordiggan to Core Items Moved Echo Sabre to Situational Items Removed Power Treads Removed Blight Stone Removed Enchanted Mango
Sven Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Situational Items
Juggernaut Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items Removed Skull Basher
Omniknight Moved Aether Lens to Core Items Removed Mekansm
Broodmother Added Quelling Blade to Early Game Added Phase Boots to Core Items Added Diffusal Blade - Level 2 to Situational Items Added Manta Style to Extension Items Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items Added Solar Crest to Extension Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Removed Clarity Removed Faerie Fire Removed Power Treads Removed Monkey King Bar Removed Desolator
Viper New Skill Build: Q W Q E E R E E Q W R W Q W R (1. Corrosive Skin 2. Nethertoxin 3. Poison Attack) Added Dragon Lance to Core Items Added Hurricane Pike to Extension Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Tusk Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Animal Courier to Starting Items Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Observer Ward to "Utility Items" Added Sentry Ward to "Utility Items" Added Tome of Experience to "Utility Items" Added Dust of Appearance to "Utility Items" Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items" Added Smoke of Deceit to "Utility Items" Removed Stout Shield
Medusa New Skill Build: W E W E W R W Q Q Q Q E E R R (1. Mystic Snake 2. Split Shot 3. Mana Shield) Added Dragon Lance to Situational Items Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items Moved Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Removed Drums of Endurance Removed Divine Rapier Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2
Dragon Knight (Middle) Dragon Knight (Lane) Added Shadow Blade to Core items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items Moved Armlet to Core Items Moved Blink Dagger to Situational Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Moved Silver Edge to Extension Items
Silencer (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Arcane Curse 2. Last Word 3. Glaives of Wisdom)
Terrorblade New Skill Build: Q E E W W W W E E R R Q Q Q R (1. Conjure Image 2. Metamorphosis 3. Reflection) Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Added Tango to Starting Items Added Diffusal Blade - Level 2 to Situational Items Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Quelling Blade to Early Game Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Moved Boots of Travel - Level 2 to Extension Items Moved Butterfly to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to Extension Items Removed Faerie Fire Removed Poor Man's Shield Removed Vladmir's Offering Removed Daedalus
Morphling New Skill Build: E Q Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Waveform 2. Morph 3. Adaptive Strike) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Tango to Starting Items Added Iron Branch to Starting Items Added Ring of Basilius to Early Game Added Town Portal Scroll" to "Utility Items" Added Quelling Blade to Situational Items Moved Ethereal Blade to Core Items Moved Satanic to Extension Items Moved Manta Style to Extension Items Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Bottle Removed Wraith Band Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2
Wraith King Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items
Sniper (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Shrapnel 2. Take Aim 3. Headshot Added Daedalus to Extension Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Sniper (Middle) New Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Shrapnel 2. Take Aim 3. Headshot Added Daedalus to Extension Items Moved Manta Style to Core Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items
Bristleback Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Moved Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items Removed Blight Stone Removed Wind Lace Removed Moon Shard
Kunkka (Middle) New Skill Build: W Q Q E E R Q Q E E R W W W R (1. Torrent 2. X Marks The Spot 3. Tidebringer) Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Core Items Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items Moved Silver Edge to Extension Items Removed Heart of Tarrasque Removed Moon Shard Removed Divine Rapier
Kunkka (Lane) New Skill Build: Q E E Q E R E Q Q W R W W W R (1. X Marks The Spot 2. Torrent 3. Tidebringer) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Animal Courier to Starting Items Added Observer Ward x2 to Starting Items Added Arcane Boots to Core Items Added Aether Lens to Core Items Added Mekansm to Core Items Added Observer Ward to "Utility Items" Added Sentry Ward to "Utility Items" Added Dust of Appearance to "Utility Items" Added Smoke of Deceit to "Utility Items" Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items" Added Gem of True Sight to "Utility Items" Added Tome of Experience to "Utility Items" Added Urn of Shadows to Situational Items Added Drum of Endurnace to Situational Items Added Force Staff to Situational Items Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items Added Veil of Discord to Extension Items Added Glimmer Cape to Extension Items Added Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Added Vladmir's Offering to Extension Items Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Moved Blink Dagger to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Healing Salve Removed Shadow Blade Removed Black King Bar Removed Silver Edge Removed Assault Cuirass Removed Monkey King Bar Removed Heart of Tarrasque Removed Daedalus Removed Boots of Travel Removed Moon Shard Removed Divine Rapier
Mirana New Skill Build: New Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q W E E E W W R R (1. Starstorm 2. Leap 3. Sacred Arrow) Added Wraith Band to Early Game Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items Added Blink Dagger to Situational Items Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items Added Drum of Endurance to Situational Items Added Desolator to Extension Items Moved Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items Removed Clarity Removed Ring of Protection Removed Slippers of Agility Removed Maelstrom Removed Veil of Discord Removed Solar Crest
Ursa (Lane) New Skill Build: E Q W Q E R E E W W R W Q Q R (1. Fury Swipes 2. Overpower 3. Earthshock) Added Quelling Blade to Early Game Added Morbid Mask to Early Game Added Orb of Venom to Situational Items Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Iron Branch Removed Vladmir's Offering
Ursa (Jungle) Added Mask of Madness to Core Items Moved Iron Talon to Core Items Removed Vladmir's Offering
Legion Commander (Lane) Added Daedalus to Extension Items Moved Iron Talon to Core Items Moved Blade Mail to Core Items Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Shadow Blade
Legion Commander (Middle) Added Daedalus to Extension Items Moved Iron Talon to Core Items Moved Blade Mail to Core Items Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Shadow Blade
Renamed Offlane Night Stalker New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Void 2. Hunter in the Night 3. Crippling Fear) Added Enchanted Mango to Starting Items Added Power Treads to Core Items Added Smoke of Deceit to Utility Items Added Dust of Appearance to Utility Items Added Gem of True Sight to Utility Items Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items Added Armlet of Mordiggan to Situational Items Added Force Staff to Extension Items Added Abyssal Blade to Extension Items Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Bottle Removed Orb of Venom Removed Phase Boots Removed Pipe of Insight Removed Blade Mail Removed Silver Edge Removed Monkey King Bar
Beastmaster (Lane) New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Call of the Wild 2. Inner Beast 3. Wild Axes) Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items Added Force Staff to Situational Items Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Removed Enchanted Mango Removed Iron Branch Removed Magic Wand
Renamed Jungle
Beastmaster (Middle) New Skill Build: W E W E W R W E E Q R Q Q Q R (1. Call of the Wild 2. Inner Beast 3. Wild Axes) Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items Added Observer Wards to Utility Items Added Sentry Wards to Utility Items Added Tome of Experience to Utility Items Added Force Staff to Situational Items Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Removed Stout Shield Removed Quelling Blade Removed Iron Branch Removed Healing Salve Removed Iron Talon Removed Boots of Speed Removed Bottle Removed Aghanim's Scepter
Phoenix (Lane) New Skill Build: Q E E W E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Sun Ray 2. Fire Spirits 3. Icarus Dive) Created New Tab: "Utility Items" Added Animal Courier to Starting Items Added Observer Ward to Starting Items Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items Added Aether Lens to Extension Items Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items Removed Ring of Protection Removed Urn of Shadows Removed Rod of Atos Removed Octarine Core
Renamed Offlane Phoenix (Middle) Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items Added Aether Lens to Extension Items Added Refresher Orb to Extension Items Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items Removed Rod of Atos Removed Octarine Core
Renamed Quas/Exort
Invoker (Middle) New Skill Build: E Q E Q E Q E Q W E R R E W E R W W W W W Q Q Q (1. Exort 2. Wex 3. Quas) Added Tango to Starting Items Added Boots of Speed to Core Items Added Blink Dagger to Core Items Added Linken's Sphere to Extension Items Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items Moved Hand of Midas to Core Items Moved Boots of Travel to Core Items Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items Removed Faerie Fire Removed Phase Boots Removed Urn of Shadows Removed Orchid of Malevolence Removed Necromonicon - Level 3 Removed Bloodthorn
New Guide
Invoker (Quas/Wex) Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W W Q W R R E W E E R E E E Q Q Q E W (1. Quas 2. Exort 3. Wex) Starting Items: Faerie Fire, Iron Branch, Iron Branch, Tango Core Items: Phase Boots, Urn of Shadows, Magic Wand, Orchid of Malevolence Situational Items: Hand of Midas, Drums of Endurance, Force Staff, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Black King Bar, Necromonicon - Level 3 Extension Items: Boots of Travel, Agahnim's Scepter, Refresher Orb, Octarine Core, Bloodthorn
Notes:
of note: http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/the-tavern/453377-in-game-standard-hero-builds-140-million-subscriptions?page=295#5896
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I feel like 4sticks/8tangos/1circlet is a better starting build for morphling, either that or something with a mango (which is super good value on morph because 1hp regen per second is way better on heroes with low HP).
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On May 22 2016 07:22 Birdie wrote: I feel like 4sticks/8tangos/1circlet is a better starting build for morphling, either that or something with a mango (which is super good value on morph because 1hp regen per second is way better on heroes with low HP).
I'd be okay with Enchanted Mango instead of Ring of Protection.
On May 22 2016 03:04 Velzi wrote: Well thats a design choice i wasnt familiar with, good to know.
Then obviously Refresher belongs to Extension items, not that im huge fan of it anyways like i said.
Also Situational is a bit misleading atleast for me, doesnt it mean "sometimes good, sometimes not" rather than "between these if u struggle".
I dont have a better word for it tho and im not against using the word, just little something i realized.
Or its just me and my mind turning something obvious to something completely inaccurate. Here you go: 2 Years, 100 million: Dota Builds Project Overview
see section: Setting Policies
Initially, hero skill builds were accounted for how difficult a hero was played, thus their skill build would be leveled in a way that was easier to understand or execute for the hero (Storm Spirit, Meepo, Invoker). That’s been changed to how a hero is just traditionally played instead of the best entryway to play a hero. The balance between deciding what new subscribers wanted and what purposes the hero build were for made this an especially difficult decision.
Different tabs of an item build have different purposes and order: • Early Game and Core Items are placed in sequential order of purchase.
• Situational Items are items intended to be bought before, during or after the Core Items sequence.
• Situational and Extension Items are ordered by cost and not by priority due to too much difference in opinion and fluctuation in how fluctuating matches end up being. Users are to read Extension Items as choices depending on what’s needed.
• The Luxury Items tab seldom appears in a guide, only when a hero is especially diverse late-game and there is a dual-stage priority in the items suggested.
‘Safety items’ are always promoted (Stout Shield [for melee heroes], Black King Bar and Magic Wand). This is due to the common issue of players often skipping smaller items to go for their Core. It’s important to instill good practices when choosing which items to purchase.
I consider Situational Items as items to substitute any Core Items or additional if you are having trouble reaching your Core Items or don't think you'll be able to afford the larger Extension Items.
Extension Items are an extension to Core Items and are considered to be of higher priority than Situational Items.
A lot of items fall in cracks between the two categories. Items like Desolator, Linken's Sphere, Sange and Yasha and Black King Bar can be found in either categories depending how synergistic they are with the hero or if the item is more commonly bought than due to a specific counter to a hero or situation.
Evidently, this is all interpretative. But you won't see items like Scythe of Vyse, Assault Cuirass or Refresher Orb in Situational Items as I feel you either shoot for that large item or your skip it entirely and can't be bought "in a pinch" per se.
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Well that explains a lot. And i mean a lot, somehow i have missed the whole policy thing, guess ive been busy in october/november.
Have to take a look about everything i have said lately to make sure im not trying to confuse u to inappropriate changes
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/z3Smf4M.png)
awesome
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Any opinions on Phantom Assassin
On May 22 2016 16:42 Velzi wrote:Well that explains a lot. And i mean a lot, somehow i have missed the whole policy thing, guess ive been busy in october/november. Have to take a look about everything i have said lately to make sure im not trying to confuse u to inappropriate changes 
All feedback is appreciated unless you don't read the original question/inquiry.
Other than that, I suggest reading the post-year/stats topics, purely because I spent a lot of time on them and even I enjoy the info.
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Early game I prefer 8tango shield and get quelling immediately at side shop, or 4tango 1salve shield. Not a huge deal though, it's partially dependent on the enemy offlaner and how good he is at denying.
IMO BF is core but if I recall correctly the basic discussion on BF being core on heroes generally (jugg PA specifically) is that guide players will get it too slow so you put it as situational and let people decide if they are good enough for it.
Beesa has been going stout shield->phase->BF->deso a bit. In general I think deso should definitely be in the guide. If you want to rejig it I think I'd do the same for early game as it is now except no PMS. Then go vlads in core items instead of hotd, and add desolator to core items too. Put abyssal at the start of extension items.
WHUT since when can't we scroll down to skill build in the browser? Maybe this is just me. Skill build should max Q, value point W, max E I think for pub players. R>Q>E>W or something. TBH I personally vary W and E amounts but for guides, survivability is good.
I think if you add deso to core items you have to rejig the extension items too of course, because satanic no longer would make sense, nor skadi. Also, I think that manta has a place in situational as an alternative to SNY. If you make deso core, put blightstone in early game, vlads in situational too.
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Deso should be situational at least, and probably vlads in there somewhere.
Not sure about BF core. PA has to use BF to leverage a 2-3 item timing or she just gets outscaled, so a late BF is a lot worse on her than on eg. jug.
idk maybe you just accept that as part of the hero. The meta build is definitely phase>BF>deso>BKB.
I'm not sure on max E either. W gives you a lot of farming speed, and for PA's 7-11 she's taking mostly magic damage anyway unless there's a TA around.
I just think she's a junk hero tbh. She hates the new basher and the new blademail crushes her.
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Are you interested in people looking over all and comment on them? Or, well, in my case I guess I'd only look over the heroes im familiar with and feel I have a strong and solid opinion on.
I dont wanna get into nitpicking (sometimes just about every item could be situational on some heroes...) and I also realize that the guides are made for primarily for new players so getting into the finer details of a hero is probably out of place too. But im sure I could provide some insight to some heroes here and there.
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On May 24 2016 18:51 Kreb wrote: Are you interested in people looking over all and comment on them? Or, well, in my case I guess I'd only look over the heroes im familiar with and feel I have a strong and solid opinion on.
I dont wanna get into nitpicking (sometimes just about every item could be situational on some heroes...) and I also realize that the guides are made for primarily for new players so getting into the finer details of a hero is probably out of place too. But im sure I could provide some insight to some heroes here and there.
Yes, that would be appreciated. It's one of the two reasons I publicly show all changes and applications made.
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Ok
Notes:
Probably our largest update in a row for 6.87.
I changed Night Stalker to Offlane I revised Necrophos to not have Dagon + Arcane/Tranquil Added MoM to Ursa Remade Abaddon Changed Kunkka (Lane) to Support type Changed Kunkka (Middle) to Carry type
and a whole lot of other shit.
I'm burnt out.
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Ok, here goes. I tried to distiguish my comments between strong opinions and details.
Strong opinions
Abaddon + Show Spoiler + Im a pretty big non-believer of drums/sny (radiance all the way baby) on him, but I realize people play him like that so I'll leave that part.
But i will say that Echo Saber seems extremely out of place. Even as core/semicore, your right clicks are rather pathetic. You kill by chasing people down slowly with CoA and maybe other slows. For that purpose, Echo Saber does nothing. Saber is primarily good on hard hitters (Sven, Tiny...) or heroes with crits/bashes. Aba is none of these. I wouldnt even put it in situational items, its garbage to me. Theres plenty of better choices.
Drow + Show Spoiler + Shadow blade as core, I really dont think so. I realize games are different at lower levels (but with that reasoning shadow blade could be core on half the heroes) but its really not a great item on her. It doesnt boost her farming and she isnt a great ganker. And the hero is by far the best when played as early grouping and pushing, which shadow blade contributes nothing to. In my book its situational as best, and only really if you upgrade to silver edge for the stats.
Also, 99% drows probably maxes aura first. Its really superior for just about everything.
Huskar + Show Spoiler + I definitely think you want a point in heal before lvl 10. Most commonly at lvl 4. Its a free salve during laning. Its a free salve after any skirmishes. And you dont use mana for anything else. Even after a gank where the target didnt fights back and just tried to run you'll be low due to spears + life break. Oh and it enables some fairly good low-hp-jungling possibilities early on if you want/need to farm jungle. Too much good to pass on.
Luna + Show Spoiler + Agh should definitely be somewhere. Given that the hero isnt played its hard to say how good it is (personally I feel it might be core). But to play it safe I guess putting it as situational is better. But its definitely good enough to be among mentioned items.
Spirit Breaker + Show Spoiler + BKB is as core as it can be on a hero. You can stop by for blade mail/vlad/shadow blade/whatever (preferably not more than 1 out of these though) before but you really really need BKB at some point. The earlier the better.
Details.
Abaddon + Show Spoiler + The new curse became much more of a "one point wonder". As sup you should always max coil over it. And imo you max coil over it as core too (thats up for discussion, I know, some would disagree). But the general build for new players should be coil over curse, its better in more cases.
Bounty + Show Spoiler + I feel Lotus Orb should be somewhere. As situational I guess?
Centaur + Show Spoiler + I feel you want Return at lvl 1 or 2 (1-0-1 at lvl 2). Its a great "dont harass me" skill against supports.
CK + Show Spoiler + Butterfly is a great extension item. Yes hes a str-hero, but bfly gives him everything he wants as an illusion carry. Far superior to halberd as evasion item unless theres a very specific halberd target you're looking to counter. And even then maybe superior.
I also still think the normal (and imo better) build is to not put a point in crit until lvl 9/10 something.
Doom + Show Spoiler + Rename jungle to Roam? He really does a lot more just devouring creep in the jungle and then roaming.
Drow + Show Spoiler + There is the Agh+Mjollnir build which should be considered extension. Though pretty much only together with each other.
Necro + Show Spoiler + Maybe nitpicking (Necro is super flexible with his items, you could almost build anything) but veil is a legit early game item and heart could be an extension item too.
Night stalker + Show Spoiler + At this point im pretty sure gem could be considered core. Theres not a better carrier for it.
Nyx + Show Spoiler + Im not really sure what Necro book does on situational here. Theres no synergy between him as a hero and the item. Necro are mostly build on aura carriers and/or pushers, which is quite far from what nyx is.
Sand King + Show Spoiler + I wouldnt put Agh or Aether as core over force. The general build prefers force over both, and imo its the better choice too. At least Aether and Force should switch places. Agh is also kinda situational to me but whatever thats nitpicking. Force as core is a 100% though to me.
Tide + Show Spoiler + Im pretty sure the mek (eventually greaves) build should be considered core atm.
WK + Show Spoiler + Midas should probably be there (as situational i guess?). WK really wants to reach lvl 11/16 and he uses the atsp well.
Radiance should probably be there as situational too. Its pretty common and definitely legit.
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Lotus Orb used to be on Bounty but was removed. I think it's fine, if you have greeves and understand why you'd want Lotus Orb then you're good enough to go for it I think. It's an item that has quite a few requirements for it to be a good choice so it's hard to just drop it in situational; the people who know enough to get it will know to get it anyways I think.
For Chaos Knight I've really been enjoying Echo Sabre. I've tried Treads + Armlet + Echo Sabre and Treads + Echo Sabre + Armlet (both with blight stone as well) with I think the latter being the better build.
Essentially you trade Drums for Armlet. Both give you HP, both give you mana, but Echo Sabre makes Rift + Stun into an incredibly deadly gank tool without your ultimate (and gives you way more mana capabilities). You're looking at something like 380 physical damage + 150-275 magic damage in an instant burst with the 2-4 second stun to finish targets off. Then you back it up with armlet to really push the damage of it and the armlet should come about when you get your ult and its effectiveness is maximized.
I don't think the build is really popular enough for a guide, but I'd love to see people try it out more and echo sabre is floating around reasonably commonly as a CK item. It's probably situational at best because it does assume you're playing aggressively as Chaos Knight, but given his slow farm speed compared to other safelane cores I think that's a reasonable assumption.
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On May 24 2016 19:44 Kreb wrote:Ok, here goes. I tried to distiguish my comments between strong opinions and details. Strong opinions Abaddon + Show Spoiler + Im a pretty big non-believer of drums/sny (radiance all the way baby) on him, but I realize people play him like that so I'll leave that part.
But i will say that Echo Saber seems extremely out of place. Even as core/semicore, your right clicks are rather pathetic. You kill by chasing people down slowly with CoA and maybe other slows. For that purpose, Echo Saber does nothing. Saber is primarily good on hard hitters (Sven, Tiny...) or heroes with crits/bashes. Aba is none of these. I wouldnt even put it in situational items, its garbage to me. Theres plenty of better choices.
I think you're underrating the Saber's own slow during a chasedown. For example, it gives Abaddon a chance to recast shield without losing any hits.
Drow + Show Spoiler + Shadow blade as core, I really dont think so. I realize games are different at lower levels (but with that reasoning shadow blade could be core on half the heroes) but its really not a great item on her. It doesnt boost her farming and she isnt a great ganker. And the hero is by far the best when played as early grouping and pushing, which shadow blade contributes nothing to. In my book its situational as best, and only really if you upgrade to silver edge for the stats.
Also, 99% drows probably maxes aura first. Its really superior for just about everything.
The problem with max aura first is that the guide needs to accommodate lineups where the Drow is the only ranged core.
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I'll take a look at feedback now.
I need feedback on PA and Kunkka though
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Can you explain the reasoning behind a 2nd point in blink strike at level 8?
the only change is 3 seconds of cooldown (14->11) which while cute, is worth substantially more at higher levels (aka 14->11 and 8->5 are both 3 second reductions but 8->5 virtually halves the colldown whereas 14->11 is like 25% reduction).
Basically, if you want blink strike 2 at 8, then you want blink strike 3 and 4 at 9 and 10. If you don't want 4-4-1, then you clearly want 4-1-4. Also note that while the first point in blur is the most value (20%), of the next points the 4th is the most efficient and as such 4-2-3 is horribly inefficient to lock yourself into over the long level 10-12 xp distance.
items are weird on that hero i've seen much better people than me advocating bfury into deso saying lifesteal doesn't do a lot for the hero but i'm not feeling it. I dont' have a good suggestion though.
A possible item build would be phase aquila vanguard into probably sny or deso into abyssal but that's pure theory
that doesn't really synergize with her dagger now being an insane nuke if you build damage these days but I don't have a solid build plan either way because I haven't seen good PA play recently.
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I think phase (roa?) vanguard deso (then bkb, abyssal presumably) has been gaining in popularity hasn't it?
Deso on dagger does work pretty well right? Your dagger will strike with the -7 armor and you have the +50 dmg of deso so the dagger should hit pretty hard, especially if it crits.
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