EPTIn-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 298
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 26 2016 06:53 Buckyman wrote: Yes. Melee creep XP was reduced and Ranged creep XP was increased. Ranged creeps are now worth twice as much as melee creeps. For the first few levels, Lich should be sacrificing ranged creeps instead of melee creeps, and therefore won't have as much disposable mana with the same skill build. Ah right, this slipped through my head. I'll make note of both now. | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
goddamn | ||
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
Something to consider in terms of starting items. So the centaur neutral camp has 2 small centaurs now AND BOTH OF THEM have magic resistance aura, huge nerf to already nerfed magic nuke flashfarmers. Also nerf to heroes like enigma who had easy time clearing the centaur camp. Infused Raindrops is ridiculously good, its like faerie fire giving u instant heal with 5 CHARGES for the cost of 3 faeries, also regen basicly doubles the regen for low int heroes. Only problem is u cant buy it before 3min. Imagine Boots Wind Lace random gold pudge. FML Hurricane Pike, basicly core for heroes like drow sniper who wanna keep their distance to enemies, its basicly average damage/stat item with 900 range blink that doesnt get interrupted by damage. Drums are pretty bad imo now, not worth to buy like it used (fine having 1 drums in team for sure but not 5 drums like right now) Aquila still great even with the 1 armor nerf. Silver Edge is just best item in the game right now, so good. Vanguard on its own still not worth it, but heroes who want the abyssal blade its must buy so maybe we start to see vanguard slark or something idk. Veil slightly worse but still great item for Zeus etc. Invoker Forge Spirit change is huge, if u max exort u have squishy fire spirits hitting and not tanky fire spirits hitting hard, like this MUCH Jakiro macropyre lasts 30s with aghs. NICE TOWER SIEGE Kotl Ench now, holy cow. NP's treant bounty nerf, love it. OD nerf is nice and justified but shouldnt change the build much, u just need to be more conservative with mana early on (cant toggle on q @1100 mana, instead u need like 1800 mana). Phoenix aghs is really good, almost core i would say (still shivas before aghs imo). Rubick buffs, oh yeah, so good. Sand king still needs more than 1 lvl in sand storm, damage is so meh lvl1. Storm RP now, rofl. seems fun but viable, no idea. u really have to change the whole idea behind playing the hero if u go for the aghs. WW aghs seems core but u still need some basic items like mana boots glimmer blink force before going aghs, u really dont have mana pool to keep up the arctic burn. WK farming rate increased a bit, seems fine. Zeus nerf justified but maybe a bit too much imo, he wasnt that broken (well they did buff bloodstone and nerf octarine so hard to say) Overall i dont think hero changes made a lot of work to guides, new items instead gonna change quite a bit (especially cost changes to starting items and so on) E: I just realized the whole intelligence damage buff makes lategame invoker deal like 250 int/16 int/% = 15,6% more damage so f.e. Sun Strike deals 662 PURE DAMAGE holy shiiiet. | ||
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
And shaker 100% still gets blink. Your reaction is exactly the reaction I'm terrified of from the supports in my pubs. Lich eating ranged creeps is a colossal buff to a hero I'd really rather see removed, but whatever. That should definitely go in the description. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 26 2016 07:32 Velzi wrote: 1. 50 starting mana increase and -1 mana per intelligence point is huuuuuuuuuge buff to heroes like doom earthshaker tiny wk kinda heroes, u actually have mana to use ur skills @lvl1-lvl3. Something to consider in terms of starting items. 2. So the centaur neutral camp has 2 small centaurs now AND BOTH OF THEM have magic resistance aura, huge nerf to already nerfed magic nuke flashfarmers. Also nerf to heroes like enigma who had easy time clearing the centaur camp. 3. Infused Raindrops is ridiculously good, its like faerie fire giving u instant heal with 5 CHARGES for the cost of 3 faeries, also regen basicly doubles the regen for low int heroes. Only problem is u cant buy it before 3min. 4. Imagine Boots Wind Lace random gold pudge. FML 5. Hurricane Pike, basicly core for heroes like drow sniper who wanna keep their distance to enemies, its basicly average damage/stat item with 900 range blink that doesnt get interrupted by damage. 6. Drums are pretty bad imo now, not worth to buy like it used (fine having 1 drums in team for sure but not 5 drums like right now) 7. Aquila still great even with the 1 armor nerf. 8. Silver Edge is just best item in the game right now, so good. 9. Vanguard on its own still not worth it, but heroes who want the abyssal blade its must buy so maybe we start to see vanguard slark or something idk. 10. Veil slightly worse but still great item for Zeus etc. 11. Invoker Forge Spirit change is huge, if u max exort u have squishy fire spirits hitting and not tanky fire spirits hitting hard, like this MUCH 12 Jakiro macropyre lasts 30s with aghs. NICE TOWER SIEGE 13 Kotl Ench now, holy cow. 14 NP's treant bounty nerf, love it. 15 OD nerf is nice and justified but shouldnt change the build much, u just need to be more conservative with mana early on (cant toggle on q @1100 mana, instead u need like 1800 mana). 16 Phoenix aghs is really good, almost core i would say (still shivas before aghs imo). 17 Rubick buffs, oh yeah, so good. 18 Sand king still needs more than 1 lvl in sand storm, damage is so meh lvl1. 19 Storm RP now, rofl. seems fun but viable, no idea. u really have to change the whole idea behind playing the hero if u go for the aghs. 20 WW aghs seems core but u still need some basic items like mana boots glimmer blink force before going aghs, u really dont have mana pool to keep up the arctic burn. 21 WK farming rate increased a bit, seems fine. 22 Zeus nerf justified but maybe a bit too much imo, he wasnt that broken (well they did buff bloodstone and nerf octarine so hard to say) 23 Overall i dont think hero changes made a lot of work to guides, new items instead gonna change quite a bit (especially cost changes to starting items and so on) E: I just realized the whole intelligence damage buff makes lategame invoker deal like 250 int/16 int/% = 15,6% more damage so f.e. Sun Strike deals 662 PURE DAMAGE holy shiiiet. 1. Yeah, no more early skill point I believe. But that was being phased out in recent months 2. The added centaur was needed given it had the most chance to spawn out of all types of camps 3. yes I dont understand who would use infused raindrops though. 3mins into the game for a situational item makes it difficult to implement in a guide 4. That'd be cute 5. Not sure on Drow, but yes on Sniper 9. I don't expect Abyssal to come up more often to be frank 11. Thanks for explaining Invoker. I didn't quite understand how it affected the Spirits. I am so happy for this as I despise Invoker 15. Roger on OD 16. How is Aghs almost core on Phoenix? It's so meh 18. Roger on Sand King 19. I think Aghs on Storm is going to be extension. 20. I was misuing "core" by meaning that it is very good/valuable to get 22. Bloodstone will be insane on Zeus 23. Agreed. On April 26 2016 07:35 Belisarius wrote: I'm pretty sure SK still gets at least lv2-3 sandstorm to farm. Even if caustic technically does more damage, I don't think he can afford to be autoing big creep stacks at low levels. And shaker 100% still gets blink. Your reaction is exactly the reaction I'm terrified of from the supports in my pubs. Lich eating ranged creeps is a colossal buff to a hero I'd really rather see removed, but whatever. That should definitely go in the description. It's a reaction, so don't worry. Closer inspection always irons out the dummies. It will go in the description. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
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Belisarius
Australia6233 Posts
I'd strongly advise you to leave off adding the new items until we see how they play out. Even in really obvious cases like ench hurricane it's generally not clear where in the build they should go. We also delay the support/core switch even further dealing with the patch. Nothing to be done about that directly, except to say that if we don't set a time to implement it, it's just going to keep getting delayed by other events. | ||
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tehh4ck3r
Magrathea7056 Posts
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
-Drums is now underwhelming. -Echo Saber was amazing as a Drums replacement; it helped stick to a target and solved all my mana problems AND provided the HP I usually want before brawling. -Infused Raindrops was also very good to bridge the larger 700 gold gap before Echo Saber. Mana regen on Slark feeds directly into flash-farming, and the damage shield is a literal life-saver. -Echo Saber + Silver Edge felt crazy strong. Not just because of the double hit, but because the Echo Saber movement stop meant I could land the backstab (and a bonus hit) without worrying that my target would move out of the way of the follow-up pounce. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On April 26 2016 11:07 tehh4ck3r wrote: GL dude patch is live wow... Time to wake up then. I thought I had more time... On April 26 2016 10:56 Belisarius wrote: I really don't expect too many builds to change as a result of this. I'd strongly advise you to leave off adding the new items until we see how they play out. Even in really obvious cases like ench hurricane it's generally not clear where in the build they should go. We also delay the support/core switch even further dealing with the patch. Nothing to be done about that directly, except to say that if we don't set a time to implement it, it's just going to keep getting delayed by other events. Don't worry, we'll push through. On April 26 2016 12:30 Buckyman wrote: Did some experimental Slarking in bot games to try out the new items. -Drums is now underwhelming. -Echo Saber was amazing as a Drums replacement; it helped stick to a target and solved all my mana problems AND provided the HP I usually want before brawling. -Infused Raindrops was also very good to bridge the larger 700 gold gap before Echo Saber. Mana regen on Slark feeds directly into flash-farming, and the damage shield is a literal life-saver. -Echo Saber + Silver Edge felt crazy strong. Not just because of the double hit, but because the Echo Saber movement stop meant I could land the backstab (and a bonus hit) without worrying that my target would move out of the way of the follow-up pounce. Got it. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I should be able to push through a preliminary draft and apply most common changes by 11AM if I work thoroughly. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
6.87 Planning Posts Personal Notes
Actual Schedule (PST) Day 1 - 11:30-2:30PM: Reading Patch Notes, writing Personal Notes - 2:30-5:00PM: Reading User Feedback/Comments; collecting basis of changes Day 2 - 1AM-7:30AM: Beginning Draft Separation of Heroes/Skills/Items/Unchanged Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): *Reference Formatting Post | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
Final Total Subscriptions (6.86): 136,424,340 DRAFT Patch 6.87 Unchanged + Show Spoiler +                                 Skill Changes subject to change  In view of Forge Spirits change Level 1 -> Poison Sacrifice at Lvl 3, push max Frost Blast after. (Make Descriptions reflect to sacrifice RANGED creep. Note Frost Blast + Ice Armour Slows are independentAdjust Aghanim's text (see Wind Lace)  (Middle) Max Shrapnel by 9 (Take Aim 2-3 lvls)Item Changes subject to change Move Drums of Endurance to Core - Carry  Replace Abyssal Blade with Skull BasherRemove all Luxury Items, Assault Cuirass + Move Blink Dagger to Extension Items, Add Daedalus to Extension Items  Remove Eul's Scepter of Divinity Add Blade Mail to Core Items, remove Abyssal Blade, push Assault Cuirass to Extension Items, Remove Luxury ItemsAdd Shiva's Guard to Extension Items, Move Blade Mail to Extension Items Add Aether Lens to Extension Items, Remove Scythe of Vyse, Move Guardian Greaves to Extension Items, Add Medallion of Courage + Mekansm + Arcane Boots to Core ItemsRemove Luxury Items Tab, move Shiva's Guard + Aether Lens to Extension Items, Add Lotus Orb to Situational Items  Move Silver Edge to Extension Items, remove Drums of Endurance (Lane), Move Sange & Yasha to Core Itemsremove drums of endurance Remove Luxury Items, Replace Shadow Blade with Silver Edge (Situational), Remove Dragon Lance, Reverse Manta with Sange and Yasha, Remove Daedalus, Add Satanic to Extension Items  Add Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items, Add Urn of Shadows to Situational Items, Remove BottleRemove Drums of Endurance  Move Drum of Endurance to Situational Items, Remove Assault Cuirass Remove Scythe of Vyse + Shiva's Guard. Move Guardian Greaves + Glimmer to Extension Items, Add Drums of Endurance, Remove Boots of Speed Remove Abyssal Blade + Eye of Skadi + Drums of Endurance, Reverse Manta Style + Sange and Yasha, Move Diffusal Blade lvl 2 to Extension ItemsRemove Luxury Items + Satanic. Move Desolator to Situational, Move Blade Mail + Silver Edge to Extension Items  Remove Urn of Shadows (Lane), Move Aether Lens to Extension Items (Lane) Replace Abyssal Blade with Skull Basher (update Infest descriptions -> Ancients at 2-3) Remove All Situational Items, Add Moon Shard to Extension ItemsAdjust to Necro 3 build: Power Treads -> Medallion -> Vlads -> Necro 3. BKB to Situational Items, Extension: Assault, Deso, Solar Crest || Jungle: Early Game (TEST): Stout -> Ring of Basi -> Sobi Mask -> Morbid Mask || Lane: Starting Items (TEST): Tango, Mango, Ring of Protection, Stout Shield, Quelling Blade -> Boots  Remove Desolator, + Monkey King Bar + Drum of Endurance + Butterfly, Move Manta Style to Core Items, Move Diffusal Blade + Linken's to Extension Items. Add Veil of Discord + Lotus Orb to Situational + Aghanim's to Extension, Replace Treads with PhaseAdd Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Remove All Luxury Items  Remove Drum of Endurance + Abyssal Blade + Magic Wand + Iron Branch x2, Move Sange & Yasha to Core Items, move Skull Basher to Extension Items || Starting Items: Stout + Ring of Protection + Tango + Salve. Early Game: PMS -> QB -> Power Treads -> RoA Remove Urn of Shadows + Force Staff Remove Core - Pusher + Soul Ring + Scythe of Vyse, Move Guardian Greaves + Aghanim's to Extension Items. Move Eul's to Core Items (before Aether Lens), Add Drums of Endurance to CoreMoved Black King Bar to Extension Items, Remove Orchid Malevolence + All Luxury Items + Assault Cuirass  remove Abyssal Blade, Add Skull Basher to Extension Items, Add Desolator to Extension Items swap Force with BlinkMove Aether Lens + Aghanim's to Core, Force Staff to Extension Items, Eul's Scepter to Situational Items  move Silver Edge to Extension Items, Remove Drum, Remove Daedalus Lane: remove Orchid of Malevolence || Middle: Remove Force Staff, Move Silver Edge to Extension Items, Remove Orchid of Malevolence, Remove Scythe of Vyse Move BKB to Extension Items, Move Force Staff to Situational Items, Add Desolator to Core Items : Remove Drums of Endurance + Abyssal Blade, Move Silver Edge to Core Items (after Echo Sabre), Remove All Luxury Items (Moon Shard to Extension Items). Linken's Sphere to Situational Items. Eye of Skadi to Extension Items Remove Daedalus Remove Drum of Endurance, Move Blade Mail to Extension Items, Remove Heart of Tarrasque, Move Refresher Orb to Extension Items (Remove All Luxury Items)Remove Drum of Endurance, Remove Monkey King Bar Add Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items, Remove All Luxury Items  Remove Drum of Endurance, Remove Assault Cuirass, Remove Monkey King Bar Remove Drum of Endurance, Remove DaedalusRemove All Situational Items  Remove All Luxury Items Remove Abyssal Blade - replace with Skull Basher, Remove Eye of Skadi (replace with Eye of Skadi), Add Monkey King Bar to Extension ItemsRemove Eye of Skadi, Remove Monkey King Bar Add Agh's to Extension Items, Remove Refresher Orb Remove Hand of Midas + Desolator + Abyssal Blade, Move Blade Mail to Extension Items, Add Quelling Blade to Core Items (before Power Treads) Move Bloodstone to Core Items, Move Veil to Extension Items, Close Luxury Items (Oct. Core to Extension Items), Remove Boots of SpeedNew Items Application: subject to change Bloodthorn , , , , Echo Sabre  (Extension), (Core - Carry, before Sange & Yasha), , (Situational Items), (Middle), , (Situational Items), Lifestealer (Extension Items), (before Diffusal Blade), (Core after Blight Stone), (after Shadow Blade), , (Extension Items), (Extension Items), (Situational Items)Blight Stone ,  (Early Game), , , Riki (Early Game). (Core - After Blink)Infused Raindrops (Utility) Look into all heroes that typically get Ring of Aquila that may not need the Agi (e.g , )Wind Lace (Early Game),  , , (Situational Items), , (Situational Items), , (Lane/Middle) Hurricane Pike (Extension Items), (Extension Items), (Extension Items)Potential New Guides subject to change Quas/Exort Build (See Manila)![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/h0GgqYs.png) New color for patch 6.87 (White) | ||
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Velzi
Finland659 Posts
On April 26 2016 09:03 Torte de Lini wrote: 11. Thanks for explaining Invoker. I didn't quite understand how it affected the Spirits. I am so happy for this as I despise Invoker MUCH Yeah i fucked up that explanation in rush. So basicly right now Forge Spirits get their damage, hit points and armor from the lvl of exort AND duration and mana from the lvl of quas But now they changed hit points and mana other way around. What this means is that if u take more points into exort than quas ur spirits are squishier than they used (or other way around, if u want to have equally tanky spirits, u sacrifice damage) f.e. spirit with 1-1-4 has 6.86 56damage and 600hp 6.87 56damage and 300hp This also might change the fact that people used to leave quas @lvl4 just to get double spirits out and max out wex and exort before going back to quas, but now people might consider taking more points into quas earlier. -------------------------------- I think u are underestimating phoenix aghs effect, if u have to hit egg 13 times instead of 11 and u have 2 heroes hitting it, they both have to get 1 more autoattack to destroy the egg which makes a lot difference between dying and surviving in many cases. Of course if u position ur egg so that whole enemy team can hit the egg down in 2seconds it doesnt make whole a lot difference. Storm really needs to be tested out because the whole playstyle changes if u go aghs. E:Okey, abyssal blade is pretty bad now, damage nerf from 70->10 is huge and the cost is almost the same (yes u get the hp, hp regen and damage block) but i feel like new abyssal tries to be too much jack of all trades and costs shitload while doing very little. | ||
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
I will be creating an Quas/Exort build in this patch at the very minimum.CURRENT STATUS: GOING BACK TO BED Draft Changes Complete | ||
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Buckyman
1364 Posts
(Make Descriptions reflect to sacrifice RANGED creep. Note Frost Blast + Ice Armour Slows are independent They've been independent for a while, but Chain Frost wasn't. Drow Ranger Remove Luxury Items, Replace Shadow Blade with Silver Edge (Situational), Remove Dragon Lance, Reverse Manta with Sange and Yasha, Remove Daedalus, Add Satanic to Extension Items 1) Are you only removing DLance because you're replacing it with Pike? Because the new Agi-based version is even better for Drow. 2) What triggered the Manta/S&Y swap? | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
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