EPTAgainst ranged offlaners it depends.
In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 278
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Against ranged offlaners it depends. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
1 more unique million guide announcing in a few minutes as well. | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1B9EPJ6.png) 1 million unique for  OmniknightIf interested in a timeline of 1 million hits and milestones, you can check it here: http://steamcommunity.com/id/0825771 | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 18 2016 04:44 Birdie wrote: For a guide, healing ward over crit is better. If they don't know to micromanage the ward to stop the lane pushing then the lane will push anyway because they're bad. If they don't know how to manage the ward then they'll probably use it and go out of mana which is more likely to lead to a death than not having healing ward. Having enough mana to spin away is probably going to save a lot more lower level players than healing ward will, nevermind the possibility of actually scoring a kill with bladefury. | ||
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On February 18 2016 00:30 BluemoonSC wrote: i think previously mana leak wasnt picked up until lvl 5 or something and we made a fuss about it being good early. but i dont think skipping chakra magic is the play IMO W-E-Q then chakra -> illu -> mana leak theres about zero circumstances where you wouldnt want to have your chakra maxed before anything else On February 18 2016 01:22 BluemoonSC wrote: right! nor do you want to be blasting a creep wave your carry could be farming. its only useful for farming jungle stacks and that got a nerf. so you're gonna be low lvl for a while before you can actually do that consistently, better to have the utility in chakra. : yes, I previously had Mana Leak later than usual, but I think Illuminate is key to get early to stack camps and wipe with Q (max Illuminate by the time you leave the laning phase); allowing for an early Aghs that can then lead to Aghanim's, rendering further levels in your ultimate: needless. MDL: they maxed Chakra First Captain's Draft: Max Illuminate (2pts in Chakra) Pub games - Variety of builds: - Some skip ultimate until 11 - Some max Chakra + Illuminate, no Mana Leak - Some put 3 pts in Chakra Magic, then max Mana Leak Ultimately; I'd like 1 point in Mana Leak early, early-game Chakra Magic, but Illuminate maxed first for the sake both for its fighting strength as well as ability to flash-farm when necessary. It did get nerfed, but not outright pointless. I think Keeper of the Light is the only hero where I really wish I could have all that abilities immediately. On February 18 2016 00:39 BluemoonSC wrote: im not gonna look it up, but im pretty sure me and someone else were discussing a similar alternative to the radiance bot manta stupid ass BS build that i hate with a burning passion despite it being so good. do you like blink BEFORE mediallion? im not sure i do. ogre - yes, especially if arcanes are removed ember - double crit is rarely ever the play. teddy and other players far better than i am have told me this, so i know it to be true. if you REALLY want more dmg, pick up a rapier. if you dont want the risk, double BFury is almost always the play unless you have a specific need for other items and you're low on slots. : Arcane is not removed, the double in Extension Items was removed. : I think Daedalus is better than Battle Fury in terms of raw damage; especially with the critical effect. The bonus from BFury is negligible at that point (regen). Did anyone do the math in the past? will move Manta Style with note of its situational value to Luxury Items On February 18 2016 02:49 Logo wrote: Yeah I find Ogre without some sort of mid-battle regen pretty awkward. It makes me not want to use unrefined until I've cast fireblast twice (so I can keep using fireblast through the whole fight), but that's pretty ridiculous since the fireblast-unrefined combo is so strong. On Jugg and the above Q-W-Q suggestion... is that accurate? The value point in crit helps a lot to zone out offlaners (especially melee ones) without much effort and can setup kills if you get a well timed crit (or just in general with any right click opportunity). If you don't get it at 2 then crit is probably going to do even less at 4 and the correct timing becomes "when you're ready to start clearing the jungle between waves" which is harder to put into a guide (level 7?) I see healing ward as better if your offlane is pressured, but I'm not sure that it really makes for the overall stronger suggestion especially since crit can help lower skilled players secure a few extra last hits (1 of every 5 last hits attempts that are slightly too early would connect instead with crit). On February 18 2016 04:44 Birdie wrote: For a guide, healing ward over crit is better. If they don't know to micromanage the ward to stop the lane pushing then the lane will push anyway because they're bad.  I prefer getting stats after maxing Q (8-10), but I am seeing a lot of popularity maxing Healing Ward after Q. I can see its value but I am concerned of the mana cost; especially with public players being less conservative.I am not sure if that is the right mentality in regards to deciding skill builds though, too many circumstances to necessarily deem them "bad" per se. On February 18 2016 05:20 Logo wrote: If they don't know how to manage the ward then they'll probably use it and go out of mana which is more likely to lead to a death than not having healing ward. Having enough mana to spin away is probably going to save a lot more lower level players than healing ward will, nevermind the possibility of actually scoring a kill with bladefury. Agreed!  Do you guys have any suggestions for Venomancer? I recently played with him and I was extremely uncomfortable with him and particularly hated not only his weak movement speed; but how Arcane Boots was only useful if I was proactive with my Q; which is maxed last...I was thinking of getting Ring of Aquila + Tranquil instead of Arcane boots. Venomancer | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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Germany38463 Posts
My argument is that Daedalus is better in a guide considering we can't weigh value-per-situation. The cleave from Battle Fury is situationally higher damage, but Daedalus is the safer choice for guide-users. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8933 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
At the very least I'd want level 2 healing ward going in at level 11 I'd think (level 1 isn't enough to fully heal up after a fight). | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On February 18 2016 05:44 BluemoonSC wrote: i can guarantee you in most pub environments, double daedlus is not the build Yes, perhaps. I am playing many Ember games to determine what to get after Daedalus. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
On February 18 2016 05:51 Logo wrote: I think max healing ward is too good to pass up personally, though I don't think stats are strictly wrong and are an attractive choice too. 5% hp/s healing for your whole team is absurdly good and level 11 is a time when Jugg can really peak because at that point omnislash is arguably at its peak relative power + ghost scepters are often still scarce + jugg is far enough long to have right click potential as well (You'd expect to have battlefury and possibly Yasha at about the same time). So by taking healing ward you can ensure you can convert the personal strength into a chance for your team to really pressure and take objectives & fights. At the very least I'd want level 2 healing ward going in at level 11 I'd think (level 1 isn't enough to fully heal up after a fight). We'll keep it as is: Q Max with 1 crit + healing ward -> Max Healing Ward -> Max Crit for now and see how it plays out. I've only played one game as Juggernaut since I updated it and I went Midas first (test) and then Battle Fury. Didn't work out. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
You get stats if you don't need the healing ward for a little while, it's situational each game though. For a guide, probs 4/4/1/2 then a couple points stats then max crit is fine. | ||
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Germany38463 Posts
I want another damage item in Extension Items and to move Manta Style away to Luxury or Situational. | ||
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Added Healing Salve to Starting Items Added Iron Talon to Early Game Added Magic Wand to Core Items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Power Treads to Early Game Moved Bottle to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Abyssal Blade Removed Quelling Blade Legion Commander (Middle) Removed Iron Branch x3 Added Iron Talon to Early Game Added Magic Wand to Core Items Added Drums of Endurance to Situational Items Moved Power Treads to Early Game Moved Bottle to Situational Items Moved Sange and Yasha to Extension Items Removed Iron Branch x2 Removed Abyssal Blade Removed Quelling Blade Drow Ranger Added Shadow Blade to Situational Items Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items Removed Silver Edge Removed Mask of Madness  EnchantressMoved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items  MagnusAdded Linken's Sphere to Situational Items Moved Guardian Greaves to Extension Items Crystal Maiden Added Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items Removed Scythe of Vyse  Alchemist (Middle)New Skill Build: E Q Q E E R W E Q Q R W W W R (1. Greevil's Greed 2. Acid Spray 3. Unstable Concoction) Added Mjolnnir to Extension Items Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2 Alchemist (Lane)New Skill Build: E Q W E E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Greevil's Greed 2. Unstable Concoction 3. Acid Spray) Added Shadow Blade to Core Items Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items Added Silver Edge to Situational Items Moved Solar Crest to Extension Items Moved Heart of Tarrasque to Extension Items Moved Monkey King Bar to Luxury Items Removed Magic Wand Removed Boots of Travel - Level 2 JuggernautNew Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E (1. Blade Fury 2. Healing Ward 3. Blade Dance) Keeper of the Light New Skill Build: W Q E Q Q E Q R W E E W W R R (1. Illuminate 2. Chakra Magic 3. Mana Leak) To-Do 1. Update Contributor's List 2. Revise Build Categories (tentative thoughts: Middle, Jungle, Safe[lane], Off[lane], [Utility?]) 3. done 4. Look over Captain's Draft for build touch-ups. 5. Revise: - Item Build (more movement speed, away from Arcane Boots), - Skill Build, - Decide to keep Daedalus | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Torte de Lini
Germany38463 Posts
On February 18 2016 07:34 Birdie wrote: 2 games from Captain's Draft doesn't really tell you how to build the hero though. 2x daedalus is situational (e.g. Sumail builds it a couple of times in his pubs, but usually gets blink/skadi, or some other item. EE builds rapiers usually, and so on). I don't think it's a problem to put two of them there as long as it isn't core, but I'd say it's like maybe 2/10 games you should get 2x crits. 1 Daedalus is Core 2nd Daedalus is in Extension Items alongside Manta Style and Monkey King Bar. When I reference Captain's Draft, it is not the entirety of my findings; it is just a small exemplary sample to display that it is bought on occasion (and not outright dumb). I should footnote those remarks with the fact that in terms of items after Daedalus are sporadic and too situational to pinpoint a core list of extension items. Thought about a second Daedalus in Extension Thought about Desolator moved back to Extension (currently in Situational) Thought about Eye of Skadi moved back to Extension (currently in Luxury) I don't want to put Rapier because even when I play; I die a lot late-game, I would assume players are worse than myself (I am average/sub-par at Ember, even with good farm). It is still in Luxury Items | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Second Daed is for the kinds of games where either you need more single-target damage in addition to Blink OR the enemy has too many instant disables for you to practically use Blink safely. Both are exceptional. Skadi and Deso are both situational in that they replace items in the default progression for specific kinds of games. Deso's actually bad lategame so it makes no sense for it to be Extension. You get it early in super stompy games. | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Arcanes are for pushing to let you constantly spam wards and have mana for mek, as well as the benefit for team. The biggest issue with not going arcanes is that you have to manage your mana carefully to have mana to ult + gale. I still really don't like blink on veno. His spells are just such long range that I've never found it necessary, or at the least the benefits of force or glimmer fill the same role for him. | ||
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