• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:54
CET 21:54
KST 05:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT24Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book16Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0226LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker16
StarCraft 2
General
Liquipedia WCS Portal Launched ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Kaelaris on the futue of SC2 and much more... How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) How do the "codes" work in GSL? Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth
Brood War
General
A new season just kicks off [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ CasterMuse Youtube
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1906 users

In-Game Standard Hero Builds Project - Page 150

Forum Index > The Tavern
Post a Reply
Prev 1 148 149 150 151 152 371 Next
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 09 2015 22:52 GMT
#2981
okay yes ult 2 sucks
but there's no way u skip stomp that long I think since before ppl have boots its actually hittable as a ganking tool if you do it right.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-09 23:02:27
February 09 2015 23:01 GMT
#2982
I mean, I have no fucking clue if his guide is for support or offlane because it just says "Lane" as always. Nobody plays that hero offlane anymore--it's pretty much always a greedy support hero--but the guide was probably last changed when it was still an offlane hero, so I have no clue what Torte is going for.

If it's offlane, you can delay stomp cuz your team's probably just gonna leave you on an island and not gank for you cuz 99% of pub supports never bother helping the offlane. If it's support, you more or less have to take Stomp at 2, cuz rank 1 aura does almost nothing at level 2, lol.
Moderator
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 09 2015 23:04 GMT
#2983
When it was a big support hero u'd go stomp @1 sometimes to gank cuz if u wrapped on mid or w/e and they had to run through u it was a guaranteed stomp. I mean u'd save the point and skill stomp if it was gonna be a kill right. Stomp is also kinda required to farm these days and it does enough damage to be a viable farming skill if u have soul ring (when combined with ur other shit obv).
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 09 2015 23:09 GMT
#2984
I should have said take Stomp BY 2, not at 2, but yeah.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-09 23:28:04
February 09 2015 23:27 GMT
#2985
It's for dual-lane support.

I mixed the skill build, should be stomp at 2 for the easy fb. I just played the game as ET where I didn't get stomp until late and it went awful.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 10:29:32
February 09 2015 23:28 GMT
#2986
Invoker
Added Iron Branch to Starting Items
Removed Necromonicon
Added Orchid of Malevolence to Situational Items
Added Magic Wand to Core Items

Remade Guide
Juggernaut

Skill Build: Q W E Stats Stats R Stats Stats E W R E E W W R Stats Stats Stats Stats Stats Stats Q Q Q (1. Blade Dance 2. Healing Ward 3. Stats 4. Blade Fury)
Starting Items: Stout Shield, Tangos, 2x Iron Branch, Healing Salve
Early Game: Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Core Items: Phase Boots, Quelling Blade, Mask of Madness, Yasha, Skull Basher, Manta Style
Situational Items: Diffusal Blade, Black King Bar, Sange & Yasha, Battlefury, Mjollnir
Extension Items: Abyssal, Butterfly, Satanic, Monkey King Bar, Eye of Skadi

Doom (Lane)
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
items were arranged in their newly updated order

Doom (Jungle)
Removed Arcane Boots
Removed
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core - Ganker
Created New Tab: "Extension Items"
Moved Refresher's Orb to "Extension Items"
Moved Scythe of Vyse to "Extension Items"
Moved Assault Cuirass to "Extension Items"
Moved Heart of Tarrasque to "Extension Items"
items were arranged in their newly updated order

Elder Titan (Lane)
New Skill Build: W Q W E Q R E E E W W Q Q R R (1. Natural Order 2. Astral Spirit 3. Echo Stomp)
Removed Clarity
Added Courier to Starting Items
Added Observer Ward to Starting Items
Removed Bottle
Removed Power Treads
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Soul Ring to Early Game
Removed Mekansm
Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core Items
Moved Force Staff to Situational Items
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Removed Black King Bar
Removed Scythe of Vyse
Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items

Phoenix (Lane)
Phoenix (Middle)
Moved Mekansm to Situational Items
Removed Ghost Scepter
Added Veil of Discord to Extension Items
Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Situational Items
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items
Moved Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items
Added Rod of Atos to Situational Items
Removed Pipe of Insight
Created New Tab: "Midas by 11 Mins"
Added Hand of Midas to "Midas by 11 Mins"
Removed Early Game (moved Wand after Tranquils)

Gyrocopter (Lane)
Moved Satanic to Extension Items
Moved Helm of the Dominator to Situational Items
Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items
Added Manta Style to Situational Items

Gyrocopter (Middle)
Added Manta Style to Situational Items

Warlock (Middle)
New Skill Build: W Stats W Stats W R W E E E R E Q Q Q R Q (1. Shadow Word 2. Upheaval 3. Fatal Bonds)
Created New Tab: "Midas by 8 Mins"
Added Hand of Midas to "Midas by 8 Mins"

Shadow Fiend
Moved Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Moved Desolator to Situational Items

Warlock (Lane)
New Skill Build: W E W E W R W E E Q R Q Q Q (1. Shadow Word 2. Upheaval 3. Fatal Bonds)

Pudge
Removed Hood of Defiance
Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items
Added Ghost Scepter to Situational Items
Created New Tab: "Utility Items"
Moved Smoke of Deceit to "Utility Items"
Moved Observer Wards to "Utility Items"

Bloodseeker (Jungle)
Bloodseeker (Lane)
Removed Power Treads
Removed Butterfly
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Added Phase Boots to Core Items

Bloodseeker (Middle)
Removed Bottle
Added 3x Iron Branch to Starting Items
Added Poor Man's Shield to Early Game
Removed Power Treads
Added Phase Boots to Core Items
Added Mjollnir to Extension Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Removed Butterfly
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-09 23:35:35
February 09 2015 23:32 GMT
#2987
It's fixed, but now I don't recall what I based this new skill build on since it's now two points spirit, two points stomp then max Natural Order. Funky timing area, I'll have to play him more (I usually just play him as mid and wreck easily)

New Skill Build: W Q W E Q R E E E W W Q Q R R (1. Natural Order 2. Astral Spirit 3. Echo Stomp)

Patch list is getting long, so we'll cut it here and start a new list. I'm ramping up a minimum of 3 to 6 games a night (depending when I go home); so I think we'll see a lot more updates and changes as I try to play every uncomfortable hero (today was Bloodseeker - only got 1 game in sadly)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 09 2015 23:57 GMT
#2988
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23519508

You might want to add that link to the OP for people who want to subscribe to all the heroes at once. I sorta forgot it existed.
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 10 2015 08:22 GMT
#2989
On February 10 2015 08:57 Nevuk wrote:
http://www.liquiddota.com/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=23519508

You might want to add that link to the OP for people who want to subscribe to all the heroes at once. I sorta forgot it existed.


You're right, I'm just having difficulty fitting it in to be frank.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 10:05:49
February 10 2015 10:04 GMT
#2990
Draft Guide
Winter Wyvern (Lane)

Skill Build: W Q W E W R W Q Q Q R E E E (1. Splinter Blast 2. Splinter Blast 3. Arctic Burn)
Starting Items: Courier/Wards, 3x Iron Branches, Clarity, Tangos
Early Game: Soul Ring, Boots of Speed, Magic Wand
Core Items: Tranquil Boots, Blink Dagger, Eul's Scepter of Divinity
Utility Items: Flying Courier, Observer Wards, Sentry Wards, Dust of Appearance, Gem of True Sight, Smoke of Deceit
Situational Items: Medallion of Courage, Mekansm, Force Staff, Ghost Scepter, Rod of Atos
Extension Items: Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyse, Refresher's Orb
Luxury Items: Eye of Skadi, Boots of Travel
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 19:29:40
February 10 2015 10:35 GMT
#2991
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 15:12:12
February 10 2015 10:42 GMT
#2992


Just realized this now.

The mere fact that no money is earned from this is perhaps the best of both worlds. If I gained anything from this, I don't think I'd get the help and support form everyone here and beyond. In addition, it also removes anyone who would be interested in doing this (on top of the fact that the Steam Cloud servers are completely fucking awful and only my own stubbornness can persevere through that shit) since there's no return in it besides the feel-good feeling.
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
February 10 2015 16:28 GMT
#2993
On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Removed Butterfly

Should be at least situational.

Butterfly is always at least situational on lategame Agi carries (unless it's PA who has innate evasion so it's less effective to get more).

On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Added Quelling Blade to Extension Items

I don't know where this came from, but whatever it is, it's gimmicky and should not be in a guide like this.
Moderator
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 16:36:14
February 10 2015 16:32 GMT
#2994
technicallly it's not "less effective" to get more evasion on PA but rather because the enemy is forced into evasion-disabling options like hex or MKB already, the observed defensive upside of butterfly is often quite low.
+ Show Spoiler [relevant xkcd] +
http://xkcd.com/1475/
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Comeh
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States18919 Posts
February 10 2015 16:34 GMT
#2995
On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Batrider
New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W (1. Sticky Napalm 2. Firefly 3. Flamebreak)
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Ghost Scepter

Chen
Removed Tab: Core - Aghanim's
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Necromonicon to Situational Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Clinkz
Created New Tab: "Situational Items"
Added Medallion of Courage to Situational Items
Moved Helm of the Dominator to Situational Items
Added Diffusal Blade to Situational Items
Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Removed Butterfly

Luna
Added Quelling Blade to Extension Items
Moved Manta Style to Core Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items

Not really too sure, but when I see pros play Batrider, they go for 2 in q, 4 in E (universe did this game 2 finals of DAC). I think this is for faster clearing stacked camps in the jungle - though I guess its whether your build is more laning centric or to rotate through jungle more (which should be the the best way to play him anyways, but I dunno).
ヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノDELETE ICEFROGヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(⌐■_■)ノヽ(
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 16:41:42
February 10 2015 16:36 GMT
#2996
EDIT: NM I'm dumb, forgot Evasion stacks multiplicatively, so it doesn't matter.
Moderator
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-10 16:49:33
February 10 2015 16:45 GMT
#2997
On February 11 2015 01:28 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Removed Butterfly

Should be at least situational.

Butterfly is always at least situational on lategame Agi carries (unless it's PA who has innate evasion so it's less effective to get more).

Show nested quote +
On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Added Quelling Blade to Extension Items

I don't know where this came from, but whatever it is, it's gimmicky and should not be in a guide like this.


I didn't feel it would take precedent over more crippling items such as Skadi or Satanic, so I didn't include.

Removed, I was thinking correctly in that Luna is ranged.

On February 11 2015 01:34 Comeh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 10 2015 19:35 Torte de Lini wrote:
Batrider
New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q E E W R W W W (1. Sticky Napalm 2. Firefly 3. Flamebreak)
Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items
Added Ghost Scepter

Chen
Removed Tab: Core - Aghanim's
Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items
Moved Necromonicon to Situational Items
Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Clinkz
Created New Tab: "Situational Items"
Added Medallion of Courage to Situational Items
Moved Helm of the Dominator to Situational Items
Added Diffusal Blade to Situational Items
Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items
Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items
Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items
Removed Butterfly

Luna
Added Quelling Blade to Extension Items
Moved Manta Style to Core Items
Added Assault Cuirass to Extension Items

Not really too sure, but when I see pros play Batrider, they go for 2 in q, 4 in E (universe did this game 2 finals of DAC). I think this is for faster clearing stacked camps in the jungle - though I guess its whether your build is more laning centric or to rotate through jungle more (which should be the the best way to play him anyways, but I dunno).


I was thinking of doing a Jungle Batrider for awhile. This is purely for Middle Lane Batrider as it is hard to describe how to lane/jungle Batrider similar to Lane/Jungle Sand King.

I'll take a double-look, this was just a correction in getting W in the first 6 levels, which is an outdated flaw.

edit: you are right, better to max E first
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
February 10 2015 16:47 GMT
#2998
Im really tired so i was having a hard time proving it but i knew i was right
wheeeeeee
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
February 10 2015 16:50 GMT
#2999
Batrider's skill build is updated, good eye:


New Skill Build: Q E Q E E R E Q Q W R W W W (1. Firefly 2. Sticky Napalm 3. Flamebreak)
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Torte de Lini
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Germany38463 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-11 10:03:13
February 10 2015 19:31 GMT
#3000
ed
https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)
Prev 1 148 149 150 151 152 371 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Epic.LAN
12:00
#47 - Day 1
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Grubby 3187
RotterdaM 587
UpATreeSC 118
JuggernautJason71
EmSc Tv 25
Livibee 23
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 168
nyoken 86
yabsab 29
NaDa 10
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm40
Counter-Strike
fl0m4355
byalli633
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu462
Other Games
tarik_tv3771
FrodaN2513
Beastyqt634
mouzStarbuck259
C9.Mang0177
ToD104
ArmadaUGS102
QueenE74
Trikslyr73
KnowMe62
ZombieGrub23
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL41680
StarCraft 2
ComeBackTV 539
EmSc Tv 25
EmSc2Tv 25
angryscii 0
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix9
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota2635
• WagamamaTV579
League of Legends
• TFBlade1018
Other Games
• imaqtpie1195
• Shiphtur187
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 6m
PiG Sty Festival
12h 6m
herO vs NightMare
Reynor vs Cure
CranKy Ducklings
13h 6m
Epic.LAN
15h 6m
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
18h 6m
Replay Cast
1d 3h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 12h
Serral vs YoungYakov
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 13h
Replay Cast
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-19
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026: China & Korea Invitational
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.