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Those look super randomly put together and quite illogical. You're better off going to a MemoryExpress and spending $1500 for one of their prebuilts.
-What are your objectives, is gaming the only one? Why do you want a X570 board over a B450? For your apparent use case you're better off saving $200 and getting a B450 board.
-Do you have $1000+ headphones to justify that sound card?
-Why are you getting a crap tier ssd and 1TB HDD on a $2500 build, a good SSD is the most noticeable performance gain in daily computer use.
-If you don't have many intensive workloads outside of gaming, get a Ryzen 3600. You're in the worst value proposition:
6 cores = $250 CAD
8 cores = $475 (the one you have selected)
12 cores = $650 CAD
Imo there's very few situations where spending that $430 vs $250 at ME for 8 cores instead of 6 is worth it, rather put that towards upgrading earlier in the future.
-That's one of loudest RTX 2070s with bad temps, don't get that one.
-Stick with 16GB of RAM, if you really need it later, you can buy it then. If you really want 32GB of RAM, at least get 2x16GB sticks for better performance.
In most cases if you're in Canada, I'd recommend the starting point for your own build to be this for $1330:
https://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/MX80502
It's a super popular computer ME builds because it's super generic and it gets the job done - for most people generic is what they do. When someone gives very vague information about what they'd like, then a computer like the one linked above will be better (plus have warranty for assembly, no risk of damage during assembly, etc).
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On April 27 2020 10:41 lethal111 wrote:Looking to build a new pc. Sorta compiled a list of parts. Looking for any thoughts or suggestions https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/Lb7W7TPlanning to play CSGO Dota 2 BF 5
That looks like a build put together to blow money....
Do you REALLY need that sound card? Onboard audio from top end motherboards is pretty damn good nowadays.
Do you REALLY need X570? There's one generation of AM4 left, B450 is straight up better in a lot of cases, especially since neither the GPU you picked, nor the SSD are PCI-E 4.0
https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/JKJftp
A more balanced build.
Motherboard, I like the gigabyte over the tomahawk for Wifi and onboard audio codec improvements.
You really don't need the 3800x/cooler. Arguably you don't need a 3700X either, but I'm keeping it essentially equivalent in performance to what you've picked.
I removed two of the 8gb sticks, 3600 speed with RGB
I also swapped the two drives for one big, fast 2tb ssd which is where a lot of the price comes from
You're well past where price/performance falls off a cliff by the way. Dropping to a Ryzen 3600 and mid-range gold rated PSU saves a couple hundred bucks easily.
The cooler barely matters. If you want to spend money on it, understand that it's for aesthetics, since there's really no case where performance is better than a $30 cooler.
Edit:: And yeah - look at the prebuilts. They aren't particularly bad, but I like a huge SSD over small SSD+HDD combo.
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We think very similarly Lmui 
Just want to echo the SSD sentiment. With PS5 and the new Xbox coming with SSD's this year, it's reasonable to expect most games new games to have more textures that require loading quicker. Load times will become unbearable on HDD's in a couple years.
That 2TB SSD will treat you well for a long time, years down the line you could get a new PCIE 4.0/5.0 SSD, and have a very useable mass storage SSD for your game library for example. A 1-2TB HDD will be something that will just be taking up space in your build in the near future.
As for the GPU, it depends a lot on your monitor too. If you're planning to play at 1080p60, then a 1660 Super is sort of sweet spot from Nvidia anyway. 1080p144hz or 1440p60hz monitor an RTX 2060 makes a lot more sense. And if the goal is 1440p100+ or 2160p60, then both RTX2070S and an RTX2080S are reasonable options. Though 2/3 games you mentioned are not very intensive and you don't need a great GPU to play them.
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On April 27 2020 16:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:We think very similarly Lmui Just want to echo the SSD sentiment. With PS5 and the new Xbox coming with SSD's this year, it's reasonable to expect most games new games to have more textures that require loading quicker. Load times will become unbearable on HDD's in a couple years. That 2TB SSD will treat you well for a long time, years down the line you could get a new PCIE 4.0/5.0 SSD, and have a very useable mass storage SSD for your game library for example. A 1-2TB HDD will be something that will just be taking up space in your build in the near future. As for the GPU, it depends a lot on your monitor too. If you're planning to play at 1080p60, then a 1660 Super is sort of sweet spot from Nvidia anyway. 1080p144hz or 1440p60hz monitor an RTX 2060 makes a lot more sense. And if the goal is 1440p100+ or 2160p60, then both RTX2070S and an RTX2080S are reasonable options. Though 2/3 games you mentioned are not very intensive and you don't need a great GPU to play them.
Thank you FiWiFaKi and Lmui for your help! Really insightful reading both your comments, I will take a look at your suggestions. Also would it be worth while to hold off until the Ryzen 4XXX or the intel 10th gen come out, I am not really in a rush to buy/build a new pc atm.
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On April 28 2020 01:51 lethal111 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2020 16:27 FiWiFaKi wrote:We think very similarly Lmui Just want to echo the SSD sentiment. With PS5 and the new Xbox coming with SSD's this year, it's reasonable to expect most games new games to have more textures that require loading quicker. Load times will become unbearable on HDD's in a couple years. That 2TB SSD will treat you well for a long time, years down the line you could get a new PCIE 4.0/5.0 SSD, and have a very useable mass storage SSD for your game library for example. A 1-2TB HDD will be something that will just be taking up space in your build in the near future. As for the GPU, it depends a lot on your monitor too. If you're planning to play at 1080p60, then a 1660 Super is sort of sweet spot from Nvidia anyway. 1080p144hz or 1440p60hz monitor an RTX 2060 makes a lot more sense. And if the goal is 1440p100+ or 2160p60, then both RTX2070S and an RTX2080S are reasonable options. Though 2/3 games you mentioned are not very intensive and you don't need a great GPU to play them. Thank you FiWiFaKi and Lmui for your help! Really insightful reading both your comments, I will take a look at your suggestions. Also would it be worth while to hold off until the Ryzen 4XXX or the intel 10th gen come out, I am not really in a rush to buy/build a new pc atm.
Ryzen 4xxx shouldn't be a massive jump, more than likely, core counts will remain the same, and we will get a 10-20% per core improvement. They'll stay on a 7nm node, and their dies are already quite big. No new technologies on the new processors either (will still use DDR4 until Ryzen 5xxx most likely). Right now is a good time to buy CPU's in general.
SSD and RAM prices are going up, but that might remain for quite some time with COVID, so I wouldn't be on the wait for a perfect time if it was me. My hunch is that GPU's will get a big boost by the end of the year (and if you spend $700 CAD on a card now, I think you'll be able to sell it for $300 in Jan 2021), but that's just the nature of the beast... Can't wait forever, and just eat the cost to get usability and performance.
But is it really worth it to go on kijiji, spend $150/$250CAD for a GTX1060/GTX1070 in the meantime (my friend did that a couple months ago with a GTX 1060 6GB) and sell them for $50/$100 once the new generation comes out? Sure, you'd lose $100-$150 dollars, versus $400~ on a nice RTX2070S for the next 8 months.... But you'll be getting 75% improved performance for those 8 months (plus I don't like buying new things and having it perform poopy because I was cheap on a couple parts, and by the time I upgrade the part, nothing else in the computer is new, so it doesn't feel like I've ever had a new computer).
Anyway, was just kind of ranting about some points I view as relevant, might have or might not have been useful.
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My take on it is Ryzen 3000s are pretty damn good. It's good enough that the PS5 is based on it, so it'll handle gaming workloads into the next decade pretty well. Ryzen 4000 is going to be faster, no doubt, but you can enjoy a new computer now. Prices are up right now, so buying sucks, but what you get for your money isn't bad.
For next-gen within the next year:
1. AMD high end GPU - This might push down prices of the stuff above 5700XT pricing, so Nvidia can't charge as much.
2. Ampere, Nvidia's 3000 series GPUs. They're going to be on a new process, so significant power improvements, and some price improvement.
3. Ryzen 4000 - End of 2020.
4. AMD B550 motherboard - Not significantly better than B450 for most people. Mostly better for new form factor options in mATX and ITX space.
5. Intel 10nm desktop - Every build in the last half year has been AMD for good reason. Intel *might* launch this year, but they've said that every year for the last 4 years so who knows.
The other parts are going to stay pretty static from a performance standpoint for the next year.
The next big jump comes in 2022 or so when AMD moves to TSMC 5nm, and presumably, their GPUs go to 5nm as well. Intel will hopefully have sorted out 10nm and will be pushing 10nm or 7nm performance.
Besides right now, the next best window to buy is holiday 2020, and then early 2022 or so IMO.
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Hello, looking to build a computer "right now",
Thank you in advance!
What is your budget?
around 3k (happy to spend less of course)
What is your monitor's native resolution?
Looking to build for 4k
What games do you intend to play on this computer? What settings?
Alyx, Cyberpunk, max settings
What do you intend to use the computer for besides gaming?
Programming, browsing, media, I don't plan to store anything on the computer other than programs and operating system
Do you intend to overclock?
No
Do you intend to do SLI / Crossfire?
No
Do you need an operating system?
No
Do you need a monitor or any other peripherals and is this part of your budget?
No
If you have any requirements or brand preferences, please specify.
Currently leaning towards 9700k CPU and 2080TI
Micro ITX form factor, so far the NZXT H200 looks good for case in terms of size and aesthetics,
I like the 2080TI founders edition because it's not overclocked, has a smaller form factor
The less RGB doodads I have to disable the better,
Air cooling only,
Mostly looking for advice on avoiding bottlenecks, a relatively easy to assemble build, and good thermal management,
In terms of sound levels, I'm looking to avoid anything obnoxiously loud, but I also tend to use ear buds for game sound, music anyway,
measuring with my iPhone, my MacBook outputs 55 db if I hold the meter right up to it, and that's fine.
What country will you be buying your parts in?
United States
If you have any retailer preferences, please specify.
N/A
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I altered it a bit:
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VmVxCL
Since you have a GPU, might as well get the KF model to save $20.
9900k has hyperthreading, and the final build is about the same price so I got the 9900kf over the 9700k(f)
I swapped it to 2x16gb DDR4-3600 CL16 without RGB
There's a tiny performance loss compared to ddr4-4000 CL18, but there's only 2 RAM slots, so you can't add more in the future without replacing it. Best to spend now - programming, especially larger projects do sometimes benefit here.
I dropped the PSU to a smaller, cheaper platinum unit (still has 10 year warranty). No OC means no real need for a big PSU.
Put in non-conductive thermal paste instead - It's just slightly lower risk, and has no cure time.
I would honestly wait 1-2 months though.
Intel's lineup for later this year was literally launched today, releasing at retailers some time in the next month in all likelihood:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15758/intels-10th-gen-comet-lake-desktop
For the same price, you get +2 cores with the next generation, and hyperthreading across the board.
It'll likely be the absolute fastest gaming CPU you can buy, I'd speculate it will be quicker than AMD's 4000 series chips in gaming still by pure brute force.
Edit:: Side note. This is a purely gaming focused build. The AMD equivalent with a 3900 is likely quicker/the same in a lot of general tasks, at a fraction of the power draw.
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Lmui thanks for the information, it kind of prompted me going down several rabbit holes. I haven't decided what I'm doing yet but I'm leaning towards a 5900x now. It seems like cooling will be the biggest issue. I'm trying to connect all the dots on that at the moment.
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On May 03 2020 10:29 toolegit04 wrote:
Lmui thanks for the information, it kind of prompted me going down several rabbit holes. I haven't decided what I'm doing yet but I'm leaning towards a 5900x now. It seems like cooling will be the biggest issue. I'm trying to connect all the dots on that at the moment.
Don't sweat it too much. You'll essentially never get it cool enough to hit 5.3ghz for any reasonable period without extreme cooling measures.
The best part of the whole CPU situation in the last few years is that the manufacturers have squeezed almost all performance out of stock CPUs at the high end already. With AMD, the stock cooler performs minimally below top end air cooling in most cases.
With Intel, I think the one you picked out is probably the limit of price/performance.You're realistically not improving much beyond high end air, especially in an ITX case. Just fill out the fan positions, cable manage as well as you can and let the CPU sort out how fast it feels like going. Air is better IMO for ITX cases anyways since you tangentially cool everything else in the case with passive airflow which is at a premium anyways. Worst case scenario is you'll have a 9900k with 2 extra cores, at an equal speed which isn't really a dealbreaker.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
I swapped it to 2x16gb DDR4-3600 CL16 without RGB
There's a tiny performance loss compared to ddr4-4000 CL18
The differerence in IC and PCB matters more than the box frequency. That 3600c16 kit that you chose looks like dual rank CJR on an a0 PCB so it's memory that you would buy because it's cheap and dense, not because it's performant.
I think that a PC that expensive deserves better RAM. If you OC memory manually there is a lot more performance in b-die. If you just want to plug something in and use auto settings then you won't get that enormously better either way i guess, though i'd still grab something a bit higher clocked.
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On May 06 2020 03:15 Cyro wrote:Show nested quote +I swapped it to 2x16gb DDR4-3600 CL16 without RGB
There's a tiny performance loss compared to ddr4-4000 CL18 The differerence in IC and PCB matters more than the box frequency. That 3600c16 kit that you chose looks like dual rank CJR on an a0 PCB so it's memory that you would buy because it's cheap and dense, not because it's performant. I think that a PC that expensive deserves better RAM. If you OC memory manually there is a lot more performance in b-die. If you just want to plug something in and use auto settings then you won't get that enormously better either way i guess, though i'd still grab something a bit higher clocked.
Pretty hard balancing act to be honest.
Here's one @$240 I think
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/JkJkcf/gskill-tridentz-series-32gb-2-x-16gb-ddr4-3200-memory-f4-3200c14d-32gtzsk
XMP is probably as much as you can expect most people will do for memory overclocking.
Doubling the price isn't worth it IMO, especially without willingness to push the kit to 4000+
Even a kit like this which has ddr4-4000 out of the box is quite a bit higher in price than I'd really want to recommend.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/c3QG3C/gskill-trident-z-rgb-32-gb-2-x-16-gb-ddr4-4000-memory-f4-4000c19d-32gtzr
Enormously quick for a hefty price tag.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Stock freq is just for out of the box good performance :D
One friend is running a 2x8GB 3200 14-14-14 kit at 4600 18-18-18 24/7 on 8'th gen core with subtimings that no other IC can touch, just to give an example.
$240 for 32GB of bdie is well worth IMO - IF there is at least basic overclocking done in the system. A kit that comes XMP 3200 needs a scan of frequencies to see what can be ran (probably more like 4000 without much trouble) and then a quick pass over primaries and some of the secondary timings.
Depends if you're into that; it's certainly more worthwhile than CPU core OC on either vendor in terms of performance gains.
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United Kingdom20345 Posts
Great memory bench from Hwluxx, the memory profile they're comparing to is only "good" but this emphasizes the performance gain from different timings on different workloads. It shows that cas is not actually very important but several of the settings that very few people touch have large gains.
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tRFC is huge but fairly well known; it's more impactful for Zen than for Skylake.
Every refresh interval (tREFI) the memory goes into a refresh state for (tRFC) cycles where it can't be accessed. This is required for data integrity since it's constantly decaying. The data generally lasts for longer at a higher voltage but it also decays more quickly with temperature. Default tREFI's are low to account for things like memory being in hot environments, often as high as 50 to 70 degrees C at the memory chip.
Intel can control tREFI, so OCers (especially with active memory cooling - these can get memory temps to 30-35c fairly easily) set it to a value like 30,000 - 60,000. With a tRFC of 600, that means that it's refreshing for 1 to 2 percent of the time and active for 98-99%.
On Zen the tREFI is stuck down around 12,000, so a tRFC of 600 means that the memory is refreshing 5% of the time.
Halving the tRFC in the best case means that the intel memory is active for 99.5% instead of 99% of the time, a slight bump but very marginal. For Zen on the other hand it means being active for 97.5% instead of 95% of the time. That gives a sizeable edge to memory IC's which can run tighter tRFC's, samsung 8gbit b-die being the tightest by a wide margin.
97.5 / 95 = 1.0263x improvement to bandwidth and latency - but it also makes the variance in latency from access to access more consistent.
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RRD_S, RRD_L and FAW having +4.85% on the game performance, +22.8% on corona etc is another one.
RRD is the minimum delay between one memory row activation and another, a row has to be activated in order to read from it. RRD_S is for activating another row in another bank group (which is easier) and RRD_L is for activating a row in the same bank group which is more difficult. This can't be any faster than 4 cycles in the ddr4 spec though, so some memory is capable of running both of them at 4.
RRD can only be done 4 times in each FAW window, otherwise the memory has to wait. I'm not sure exactly why this has to exist but again on high performance memory we can just put this at 4x RRD where it does not limit the memory in any way.
The XMP setting that they're comparing to can only do four RRD's within 40 cycles, that's a big limit for many programs. An OC with a decent die can usually do four in 16 cycles which is 2.5x faster; enough to quickly make a large impact if part of the program is limited by this kind of memory access.
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Depending on how you think about dealing with annoying stuff vs spending more money, he might want to think about the SSD. 240Gb is pretty small, and is very, very easily filled with windows and a few games. This can be dealt with by uninstalling and installing stuff so only games (and other programs) that you currently actively use are on that SSD, but i personally find this pretty annoying to do. A bigger SSD to prevent this from happening as often might be a good choice.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
Fair, I did reflect on that too. Aside from that, rest of the build looks good?
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Is the build from a boutique, or can your friend choose parts?
A few comments.
1. PSU - I usually recommend springing for an 80+ bronze at minimum. The cost difference over a simply 80+ rated PSU is small, and going from 80+ all the way to 80+ gold general gets reasonable returns for money in noise/efficiency/performance/warranty metrics.
2. RAM - DDR4-3000 CL16 is about as low as it goes - Are they able to get a DDR4-3200-CL16 kit, or the bottom end 3600 kits?
Agreed with above though, you're probably better off splurging a bit now, getting a basic 1tb SSD like the Intel 660p for ~$100.
An SSD+HDD is still going to be ~$70 and the value you get from a $100 SSD is much higher than you'd expect for quality of life improvement. HDD to a cheap SSD is a vast jump compared to $100 SSD to $200 SSD which is peanuts for everyday use.
If you have to cut cost somewhere, cut out the windows license, and run windows unlicensed, or with a grey market ebay key.
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Lalalaland34510 Posts
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.postimg.cc/n9hNYnrd/IMG-20200512-WA0002-01.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.postimg.cc/vD8RdthW/IMG-20200512-WA0003-01.jpg)
