EPTThe Ultimate Headphone/Audio Thread. Seriously - Page 9
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Rollin
Australia1552 Posts
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Medrea
10003 Posts
I am looking for replacement headphones, old headphones were Aiwa HP-x223's and they were amazing. But they do not make them anymore. The OP is rather light on technical data so I wasnt able to get much from it. What I need is a pair of headphones that are as good as my last pair of headphones, when I bought them they were like $17 but I have tried $200 headphones that dont sound as good. And I think I might know why. x223's did one thing pretty well and it as bass and high ends. Many headphones just sound like telephones in comparison to the x223's and I dont really have a lot of respect for telephones. I thought about getting one of these: Sennheiser HP280 Or something similar but people keep saying the bass is weak and no amount of fiddling seems to fix it. I guess im just used to bass embellishment. Anyone have any suggestions? BTW Circumaural is a must. Noise cancellation is not a must. I like to feel the music. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
It's hard to find any data on the HP-x223, so it's hard to say what is similar. A lot of cheap headphones can't put out much high treble and bass, so I can't tell if that means HP-x223 would be relatively boosted in treble and/or bass compared to flat, and by how much. I'm guessing the bass is probably boosted, at least, based on what you say and a user review I found. btw I forget what the bandpass region for voice on telephones is (frequencies passed through), but I can assure you that most headphones can produce tones higher than the upper limit of that at least.  Maybe you should just save for some version of Beyerdynamic DT 770 (Pro 80 ohms is usually cheapest and supposedly most V-shaped). Maybe Ultrasone Pro 550, but I've not tried that. For cheaper options than the HD 280, maybe Panasonic RP-HTF600 (have not tried, apparently just above-average bass quantity), JVC HA-RX700 (boomy IMHO but understandable at that price). There's the Sony XB lineup, which mostly just has the bass and lower midrange up like 10 dB compared to everything else, some unevenness elsewhere—so not enough treble perhaps. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
I was thinking of a budget around $100 with some flex. I should also mention that durability is a huge factor since I want something that will last a very very long time. The HP 280's have replaceable wires that can be replaced, as they are actually socketed into a unit inside the can as opposed to being directly soldered on. Thats a big time plus with me. I was also looking at these. Shure SRH550DJ Professional Quality DJ Headphones Its a Sennheiser brand and they advertise a tonality in the low-end which I guess is what I am looking for. But I dont think they are very durable. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Audio-Technica ATH-M50 Professional Studio Monitor Headphones But that is like my absolute limit. Keep in mind Im using onboard sound here. Modern onboard sound, but still onboard audio. EDIT: Ok how bout this for comparison. Friend of mine has a really common pair of Koss Porta pros. The bass on them is alright, like 80 percent there. Those headphones are decent, but not circumaural. Maybe that gives you an idea? | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Also, they're borderline small for circumaurals? There are too many retarded "circumaurals" that sit on the ears unless you have small ears. Something else with definitely boosted bass is apparently the Denon AH-D1100, but that's no lower than about $133 anywhere. It's less popular than the discontinued AH-D1001 and Creative Aurvana Live (both are similar headphones OEM by Fostex), but that's mostly because the bass is boosted too much for some tastes. Those models should still be a bit bassier than SRH750DJ, HD280, etc. Aurvana Live seems to have gotten a 50% price hike recently though. edit: above was responding to first post. Below to second part. ATH-M50 has also gotten a price hike since a couple years back, but only like 20%? Now that you mention Porta Pro, check here for reference: http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads Porta Pro is listed. Compare other headphones against the FR of the Porta Pro. The other issue is what region of bass you're talking about. Lots of headphones, particularly open or smaller models, start dropping off around 100 Hz or so. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/shure-srh550dj-professional-quality/4505-7877_7-34556962.html I believe SHURE is a subsidiary of Sennheiser in that they use Sennheiser parts but assemble them as their own. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826106570 has Sennheiser written all over it. On August 16 2012 12:37 Myrmidon wrote: Now that you mention Porta Pro, check here for reference: http://www.innerfidelity.com/headphone-data-sheet-downloads Porta Pro is listed. Compare other headphones against the FR of the Porta Pro. The other issue is what region of bass you're talking about. Lots of headphones, particularly open or smaller models, start dropping off around 100 Hz or so. Ah good. Numbers. I can start associating products and how they sound with these. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SkullcandyHesh2.pdf Compared to all the others these values are way higher. Whats the deal with this? If it helps on all of my equalizers I like to push the 30 60 and 125 sliders up a lot. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Shure is a very old US audio company. They've got some legendary microphones and other gear. Sennheiser is a very old German audio company with a wide array of professional and consumer audio lines. Nothing to do with Shure AFAIK. I'm not sure who makes the headphone drivers or headphones for these companies though; there could be some overlap, but probably not in the way you were thinking. That said, Sennheiser manufactures some of their own high-end headphones in Germany themselves; I'm not sure about Shure. I'm pretty sure that the absolute y-axis positioning of the FR graphs at IF is meaningless. I've looked before and could not find any patterns relating to actual output levels or a common normalization. Just look at relative values. edit: especially if you're boosting bass with EQ and if you're listening relatively loudly, I recommend finding something with lower distortion in the bass for the 90 dB SPL and even 100 dB SPL tests. That's the third graph on the left side. Some headphones just run out of excursion, and that'll muck up everything else. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
On August 16 2012 13:04 Myrmidon wrote: I'm not sure about Shure. Im glad we are having this discussion in text. Ok so if absolute y doesnt matter. How do I find headphones that have a really prominent bass line. I have previously thought this was related to driver size, and indeed headphones that advertise heavy bass do seem to have bigger drivers, but then I go into audiophile forums and they say its marketing. So Im not sure whats happening here. | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
 You're looking for high values of bass relative to everything else. i.e. the line is higher at 20-200 Hz or so than everywhere else. Also, lower distortion is better. Larger drivers can help, but ultimately it depends on a lot more than that. It's not about the size of the driver, but how they use it. Yeahhhh. If you get bored at looking at IF or want a second opinion, try here: http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/build-a-graph.php http://www.geocities.jp/ryumatsuba/review.html They also have PortaPro listed. That said, usual caveats apply: measuring headphones is hard to do and inconsistent, different people have different setups that yield different results, the dummy head is smaller than the average male head and has weird-shaped ear canals, different sites use different FR normalization. i.e. values are not at all comparable between different sites, so don't try that. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
I think I see whats going on. People like the high bass but people also like high volume so some headphones just make everything loud regardless to quality. In the end I control the volume and the even the spread (after I apply equalization) right? What matters in the end is the quality. How would I view distortion? | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FostexTH900.pdf ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TxE4Q.png) Some "bass heavy" headphones have a boost to the bass that keeps going past 300 Hz and higher, which is really the midrange. That just makes the headphone sound like there's not much treble. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Dzz7g.png) THD+N = Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise ideally you want low values for that everywhere, but if you're boosting bass with EQ, it's more important for that to be better in the bass. There are four curves: two for left earcup, two for right earcup. One set is at 90 dB SPL loudness, while the other is taken at 100 dB SPL loudness. Some headphones start to have more trouble maintaining clean sound once you crank the volume past 90 dB or so, which is demonstrated by the graphs. This power handling capability is more of an issue if you use EQ, particularly if boosting the bass. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/KossPortaPro.pdf http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SkullcandyHesh2.pdf These are both bass heavy. And in the noise chart its really really high close to 8 percent. So they give up low range quality for low range volume at flat levels. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD280Pro.pdf Is bass equal and also has high distortion in the bass. So in light of these the Sennheiser 280's are probably not for me correct? http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SkullcandyHesh2.pdf http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudioTechnicaATHM50B2012.pdf These two reproduce the bass well and are low in distortion with the audio technica performing a lot better here. Am I reading these correctly? Am I armed with the right knowledge? Also that Fostex looks PERFECT but holy shit the cost lol. Are there similar ones in my price level I havent mentioned? EDIT: Now that I look back I see those Beyerdynamics are attractive. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
But I dont see it anywhere on the list except for this. http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/JVCHAFXT90.pdf Can i assume the sound profiles are somehow similar or is that reaching too far? | ||
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Myrmidon
United States9452 Posts
Supposedly the DT 770 Pro 80 has more bass than the other variants. I haven't heard the other versions, so I wouldn't know myself. But that makes sense since Beyerdynamic's Pro versions clamp a bit harder. That said, they're still very comfortable. Too bad the price is what it is. Hesh2 is an example of a headphone where the bass boost probably extends too far into the midrange before plummeting down. As for other options I can think off the top of my head, I already listed them a while back, other than the ATH-M50 that you already brought up. That's not the JVC HA-RX700 measured there. I don't think I've ever seen graphs for those. Different product lines are often vastly different, so I wouldn't make the leap there. By the way, HA-FXT90 are in-ear monitors and much more expensive, so it's not even remotely related. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Most of these headphones have distortion that falls off greatly before 200 so I am wondering. EDIT: Guess some stuff didnt sink in, Im always fiddling with the 60 to 130hz sliders, so for all intents and purposes below 200hz IS the low end for me. Cuz I have to say those Koss portapros do sound quite alright. And I didnt even get a chance to use them on an equalized setup either. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
EDIT: Hey Myrmidon what about the 419's you were talking about? http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserHD419.pdf Good bass emphasis, very low distortion, under 1 percent. And the price is astounding to me. Any reason not to get these? | ||
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minitelemaster
United States95 Posts
Have you looked at the Sony MDR-XB series (XB stands for "extra bass")? I own the XB-500 and the bass is certainly emphasized, but sounds good. Very comfortable, over ear, not sure about durability though as I've only had mine for a year. | ||
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Medrea
10003 Posts
Is there a difference Im not seeing? Because the Sennheisers totally come with a 2 year warranty. Cost is about the same. | ||
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