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Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
May 30 2016 09:37 GMT
#11661
If you want to keep your files then you should probably move them out of the windows.old folders, i've heard that they are sometimes deleted after a period of time
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-30 09:54:44
May 30 2016 09:39 GMT
#11662
I think people's fears are logical and scientific. However, experience has proven to me that there's no harm.


This is the equivelant of saying "i ran across the road without looking 10 times and nothing bad happened, therefore it's harmless for everyone to do this all of the time" - generally a bad idea.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
OsaX Nymloth
Profile Joined March 2013
Poland3244 Posts
May 30 2016 11:39 GMT
#11663
On May 30 2016 18:37 Cyro wrote:
If you want to keep your files then you should probably move them out of the windows.old folders, i've heard that they are sometimes deleted after a period of time

Yes, I believe it's 30 days till Windows 10 removes leftovers.
Twitter: @osaxnymloth
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3685 Posts
May 30 2016 12:02 GMT
#11664
On May 30 2016 18:39 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
I think people's fears are logical and scientific. However, experience has proven to me that there's no harm.


This is the equivelant of saying "i ran across the road without looking 10 times and nothing bad happened, therefore it's harmless for everyone to do this all of the time" - generally a bad idea.

I don't know about you but I vacuum more than once every two years.

Your analogy is more accurate if you realise that it's a bicycle on the path you're crossing. And the bicycle is rarely on the path.

Yes, it's true there's a risk of getting hit. But I'm not sure the people saying it's scary have ever crossed the path. Without personal experience, it sounds like a story from a friend of a friend of a friend.

If I get hit once, I'll pay a few hundred dollars to replace parts that are likely a few years old anyway. It won't be completely unexpected: I understand the risk.

If you prefer to minimise your risk by detouring around the bike path, that's cool.

Roadkill is real. In contrast, getting hit on my path is a story by people who have never tried to cross it.
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
May 30 2016 19:29 GMT
#11665
The problem here is that you're running around going "you guys should risk hundreds of dollars worth of equipment, because I've been lucky enough to not get burned."

Good for you. Stop trying to instruct people to do things that will eventually destroy their hardware.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Durak
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada3685 Posts
May 30 2016 23:59 GMT
#11666
On May 31 2016 04:29 Craton wrote:
The problem here is that you're running around going "you guys should risk hundreds of dollars worth of equipment, because I've been lucky enough to not get burned."

Good for you. Stop trying to instruct people to do things that will eventually destroy their hardware.


Yo, the guy specifically asked a question about vacuuming his computer. I responded with relevant, extensive experience.

I'm not trying to take on the role of providing advice in the thread. I'm simply using it for what it is: a discussion forum. I am not instructing anyone to do anything; I'm just contributing to the wealth of information.

I even said, "I think people's fears are logical and scientific." I'm advocating for people to use compressed air.

I think it would be more useful if you contributed to the discussion by providing evidence that it will "eventually destroy their hardware." I'd be happy to hear from your experience regarding how vacuuming your computer destroyed your hardware. Or some other informative resource. I'm not trying to be argumentative.
Karis Vas Ryaar
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States4396 Posts
May 31 2016 01:33 GMT
#11667
can you use a normal external hard drive with a mac laptop?
"I'm not agreeing with a lot of Virus's decisions but they are working" Tasteless. Ipl4 Losers Bracket Virus 2-1 Maru
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
May 31 2016 03:25 GMT
#11668
Well fuck, I wish I didn't listen to you vague advice Craton, really fucked me over.

The second reinstall of Windows is there, but the first one is not. I transferred some of the stuff over from my 1st windows to my 2nd, but not everything, as I knew I could access these files whenever I want.

I'm actually so mad, they it legit reformatted my HDD and deleted my files that I did not give it permission to do so. Why the fuck would it assume that I want them deleted? I hate Windows 10 already, how watered down is this shit... Like that's such a fundamental question to ask me, but it actually lowered my used place on my HDD drastically. I am so mad with Microsoft, it's insane. My Windows 10 wouldn't even update without unplugging my CD-ROM, ugh.

If only Linux was a little bit more user friendly I would jump on the train so quickly.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-31 03:45:44
May 31 2016 03:39 GMT
#11669
On May 31 2016 10:33 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
can you use a normal external hard drive with a mac laptop?

Yes, but it'll need to be formatted in a way mac recognizes (i.e. not NTFS), unless you specially install the software needed for it.

On May 31 2016 12:25 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Well fuck, I wish I didn't listen to you vague advice Craton, really fucked me over.

The second reinstall of Windows is there, but the first one is not. I transferred some of the stuff over from my 1st windows to my 2nd, but not everything, as I knew I could access these files whenever I want.

I'm actually so mad, they it legit reformatted my HDD and deleted my files that I did not give it permission to do so.

If only Linux was a little bit more user friendly I would jump on the train so quickly.

I don't know how you managed to reformat your HDD, but don't blame me for it. Upgrade definitely doesn't do it (that defeats the whole purpose), and a new install doesn't do it either unless you tell it to. Don't skip reading what it's telling you during the process.

Moreover, if you don't have your data backed up, expect to lose it. Always.
twitch.tv/cratonz
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-31 04:17:44
May 31 2016 04:03 GMT
#11670
On May 31 2016 12:39 Craton wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2016 10:33 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
can you use a normal external hard drive with a mac laptop?

Yes, but it'll need to be formatted in a way mac recognizes (i.e. not NTFS), unless you specially install the software needed for it.

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2016 12:25 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Well fuck, I wish I didn't listen to you vague advice Craton, really fucked me over.

The second reinstall of Windows is there, but the first one is not. I transferred some of the stuff over from my 1st windows to my 2nd, but not everything, as I knew I could access these files whenever I want.

I'm actually so mad, they it legit reformatted my HDD and deleted my files that I did not give it permission to do so.

If only Linux was a little bit more user friendly I would jump on the train so quickly.

I don't know how you managed to reformat your HDD, but don't blame me for it. Upgrade definitely doesn't do it (that defeats the whole purpose), and a new install doesn't do it either unless you tell it to. Don't skip reading what it's telling you during the process.

Moreover, if you don't have your data backed up, expect to lose it. Always.


Like I said, everything from the current version I was upgrading was fine, and from the past version, it was not fine, just as someone mentioned on the next page. It was definitely the upgrade that did it, and I did not skip anything that the process told me, actually it tells you like nothing because the typical we're getting ready, all your files are here, blah blah.

Windows is maybe fine if you use your Windows just like the average sheep user, but the second you want to do some customizability, add exceptions, or just do something that is infrequently done, it really breaks down. Man, I'm just really disappointed that this is what the famous OS has become.

I'm currently in my update and security tab, and I cannot copy the worlds in it. But I'll write it out, and it says:

"This helps find and stop malware from installing or running on your PC. You can turn this off temporarily, but if it's off for a while we'll turn it back on automatically".

There is so much wrong with this statement, I cannot even express my frustration. First of all, why doesn't it speak tangibly, what does off for a while mean? Why do I not have the option to turn it off permanently and use a different software.

Or automatic sample submission, I can either say yes to sending them, or I can say no, and then they will annoy me every single time as a verification where I have to say no. They are subtly trying to control exactly how you use your computer to only use their services and they are an awful company. I really hope google takes a crack at making a full OS, I think they're an amazing company.

edit: Either way, I don't care for your justification of I should have it backed up, you told me something without being educated on the topic and not knowing the answer, and didn't even address my question, and in my hastiness made a really really poor judgement call and I went for it as I took that as a sign of approval as there was no mention of risks, even though I should have researched it more myself.

edit2: Sorry, I shouldn't have been a big jerk, you tried to help. Honestly, more than anything, I'm disappointed with Windows 10.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
May 31 2016 08:08 GMT
#11671
Win10 is an example of why monopolies suck.

Microsoft tried to pull all of this shit with Xbox and Sony stepped up on stage with this very shortly afterwards:



causing many people to jump ship (ps4 won this console gen) and microsoft to fall back on a lot of their ridiculous policies. There is no such competitor to shit on windows 8/10 when they do stupid thing after stupid thing.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
May 31 2016 23:01 GMT
#11672
You can permanently disable Windows Defender (I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to). I did it on my development laptop at work because it was causing things to get stuck. I'm pretty sure you can also permanently disable the prompts to submit things, but that's probably a registry tweak. A lot of what you don't like in Windows can be altered through the registry (usually adding a DWORD in the right place or modifying the value of an existing one).

My only real gripes with W10 are the forced updates (which you can block through roundabout means, but it creates more hassle than I want) and some of the UI changes. Pretty much everything you could do in 7 or 8 is still possible, just moved. I'm not at all a fan of the "metro"-style menus, but those were dialed down a lot since windows 8 and are less annoying. Oh, actually there's also something annoying with typing to search in the start menu after clicking something, but I forget the exact specifics.

Anyway, I've gone through the upgrade process myself and didn't lose a single file. The whole point of an upgrade is to move from one OS to the next without loss of files and without loss of functionality (meaning installed programs stay usable, applicable registry entries are still in place, etc.). Similiarly, if a full install was always going to reformat, then Windows.OLD wouldn't exist. The only thing I can think of is that you tried to install Windows 10 on a drive that was in MBR format, so it said it was going to have to reformat it as GPT.

My point about data loss was not meant specifically to do with an OS install. It's a general best practice when dealing with data at any user level (consumer, commercial, governmental, etc.). Data that's not backed up can be lost at any time and should be expected to be lost eventually, so you should only have things not backed up if you're okay with losing it (such as with game installations that you can reinstall from e.g. Steam or the discs).

The commonly known phrase is "the rule of three" or "3-2-1 rule." 3 copies of anything you care about, two different formats (e.g. HDD/SSD, online storage, CD/DVD), 1 off-site backup (house burns down / burglary).

The first two of those are pretty easily done, but the last one is harder in the case of large media (particularly videos), but for most people their important data is photographs and documents, which can be stored online pretty affordably.
twitch.tv/cratonz
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8854 Posts
June 01 2016 04:18 GMT
#11673
On June 01 2016 08:01 Craton wrote:
You can permanently disable Windows Defender (I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to). I did it on my development laptop at work because it was causing things to get stuck. I'm pretty sure you can also permanently disable the prompts to submit things, but that's probably a registry tweak. A lot of what you don't like in Windows can be altered through the registry (usually adding a DWORD in the right place or modifying the value of an existing one).

My only real gripes with W10 are the forced updates (which you can block through roundabout means, but it creates more hassle than I want) and some of the UI changes. Pretty much everything you could do in 7 or 8 is still possible, just moved. I'm not at all a fan of the "metro"-style menus, but those were dialed down a lot since windows 8 and are less annoying. Oh, actually there's also something annoying with typing to search in the start menu after clicking something, but I forget the exact specifics.

Anyway, I've gone through the upgrade process myself and didn't lose a single file. The whole point of an upgrade is to move from one OS to the next without loss of files and without loss of functionality (meaning installed programs stay usable, applicable registry entries are still in place, etc.). Similiarly, if a full install was always going to reformat, then Windows.OLD wouldn't exist. The only thing I can think of is that you tried to install Windows 10 on a drive that was in MBR format, so it said it was going to have to reformat it as GPT.

My point about data loss was not meant specifically to do with an OS install. It's a general best practice when dealing with data at any user level (consumer, commercial, governmental, etc.). Data that's not backed up can be lost at any time and should be expected to be lost eventually, so you should only have things not backed up if you're okay with losing it (such as with game installations that you can reinstall from e.g. Steam or the discs).

The commonly known phrase is "the rule of three" or "3-2-1 rule." 3 copies of anything you care about, two different formats (e.g. HDD/SSD, online storage, CD/DVD), 1 off-site backup (house burns down / burglary).

The first two of those are pretty easily done, but the last one is harder in the case of large media (particularly videos), but for most people their important data is photographs and documents, which can be stored online pretty affordably.

the forced updates are a massive bitch. i cant believe this even exists in windows.
i was giving a presentation at work when my laptop suddenly decided it wanted to restart and go through an update WITHOUT ASKING ME. needless to say i wasnt able to complete my presentation because the update was taking like 20mins
WonnaPlay
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands912 Posts
June 01 2016 12:04 GMT
#11674
On June 01 2016 13:18 evilfatsh1t wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 01 2016 08:01 Craton wrote:
You can permanently disable Windows Defender (I'm pretty sure that's what you're referring to). I did it on my development laptop at work because it was causing things to get stuck. I'm pretty sure you can also permanently disable the prompts to submit things, but that's probably a registry tweak. A lot of what you don't like in Windows can be altered through the registry (usually adding a DWORD in the right place or modifying the value of an existing one).

My only real gripes with W10 are the forced updates (which you can block through roundabout means, but it creates more hassle than I want) and some of the UI changes. Pretty much everything you could do in 7 or 8 is still possible, just moved. I'm not at all a fan of the "metro"-style menus, but those were dialed down a lot since windows 8 and are less annoying. Oh, actually there's also something annoying with typing to search in the start menu after clicking something, but I forget the exact specifics.

Anyway, I've gone through the upgrade process myself and didn't lose a single file. The whole point of an upgrade is to move from one OS to the next without loss of files and without loss of functionality (meaning installed programs stay usable, applicable registry entries are still in place, etc.). Similiarly, if a full install was always going to reformat, then Windows.OLD wouldn't exist. The only thing I can think of is that you tried to install Windows 10 on a drive that was in MBR format, so it said it was going to have to reformat it as GPT.

My point about data loss was not meant specifically to do with an OS install. It's a general best practice when dealing with data at any user level (consumer, commercial, governmental, etc.). Data that's not backed up can be lost at any time and should be expected to be lost eventually, so you should only have things not backed up if you're okay with losing it (such as with game installations that you can reinstall from e.g. Steam or the discs).

The commonly known phrase is "the rule of three" or "3-2-1 rule." 3 copies of anything you care about, two different formats (e.g. HDD/SSD, online storage, CD/DVD), 1 off-site backup (house burns down / burglary).

The first two of those are pretty easily done, but the last one is harder in the case of large media (particularly videos), but for most people their important data is photographs and documents, which can be stored online pretty affordably.

the forced updates are a massive bitch. i cant believe this even exists in windows.
i was giving a presentation at work when my laptop suddenly decided it wanted to restart and go through an update WITHOUT ASKING ME. needless to say i wasnt able to complete my presentation because the update was taking like 20mins


Hahahaha thanks for this little story. This is EXACTLY why I haven't even started upgrading my users to Win10.
There are basically 5 main reasons for companies not to move to Windows 10 (atleast, these are my main reasons), which still haven't been fixed and maybe will never be fixed :
  • Compatibility with old (costum) applications
  • Forced updates (this is a really big issue actually).
  • unsupported (Hardware) drivers
  • Forced Microsoft account integration
  • Other unknown variables

Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
June 01 2016 20:48 GMT
#11675
Can I stream Overwatch at 1080p/30fps with a 2500k @ 4ghz?
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
June 01 2016 21:21 GMT
#11676
Forced Microsoft account integration

It's not forced. You can use a local account instead, you just iirc won't be able to download the "metro" apps. I use a local account on mine.

Compatibility with old (costum) applications
unsupported (Hardware) drivers

Sure, but this is the same with every new OS. A large amount of things will still work out of the box, though.

Other unknown variables

I don't think it's reasonable to list "things I don't know, but surely must exist" as a reason. Yes, you (as a system admin) will need to run everything through it's paces and have an understanding of what works and what doesn't (and how to fix it / change things to meet business needs), but that goes back to the previous point of "yeah, but that's true of every new OS."

Forced updates (this is a really big issue actually).

I'm pretty sure (like 95%+) that you can still manage everything yourself (as a system admin) if you're using the Microsoft Server stack for managing your users (domain controllers, etc.) Taking that away from commercial users would really kill their market share.

I do agree that it's a big unwanted feature for small businesses who don't run the stack or for enthusiast users who know what they're doing. It is a good thing the average user who doesn't know much about computers.
twitch.tv/cratonz
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20326 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-02 00:53:37
June 02 2016 00:52 GMT
#11677
On June 02 2016 05:48 Djzapz wrote:
Can I stream Overwatch at 1080p/30fps with a 2500k @ 4ghz?


You're probably better off streaming at a lower resolution or with a non-CPU encoder.

Overwatch takes some CPU by itself, but then you also have to deal with FPS games being very hard to encode. There's a lot of motion so they have higher CPU loads for live encoding than some other types of games.

I tried 1080p60 x264 w/ veryfast preset (fastest preset that you should use for livestreaming) and it wasn't even close to working well; my CPU is a 6700k at 4.6ghz so it will encode about 92% faster than a 2500k.

You may be able to get some spare CPU load back by limiting the FPS of the game, but it would still be hard. I think you should try encoding with NVENC if you have it or ~720p30/720p48 x264 veryfast if you don't.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
June 02 2016 17:26 GMT
#11678
On June 02 2016 09:52 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 02 2016 05:48 Djzapz wrote:
Can I stream Overwatch at 1080p/30fps with a 2500k @ 4ghz?


You're probably better off streaming at a lower resolution or with a non-CPU encoder.

Overwatch takes some CPU by itself, but then you also have to deal with FPS games being very hard to encode. There's a lot of motion so they have higher CPU loads for live encoding than some other types of games.

I tried 1080p60 x264 w/ veryfast preset (fastest preset that you should use for livestreaming) and it wasn't even close to working well; my CPU is a 6700k at 4.6ghz so it will encode about 92% faster than a 2500k.

You may be able to get some spare CPU load back by limiting the FPS of the game, but it would still be hard. I think you should try encoding with NVENC if you have it or ~720p30/720p48 x264 veryfast if you don't.

Alright, I'll see. Thanks!
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
JWD[9]
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
364 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-07 13:38:46
June 07 2016 13:23 GMT
#11679
Carrier Sense Multiple Access/Collision Detection (CSMA/CD) is used in Ethernet to avoid datacollision, so I assume(wrongly?) that over twistedpair only one host at a time can send. Now if we go a couple levels above, we see that a TCP transmission, while sending waits for acknowledgement of the send packets or else it will resend them. So a.) can a host send and receive after all at the same time (then why Collision Detection in the first place?) or b.) once a host to host connection is established do these two hosts fall into some sort of rythm where they alternate between sending and receiving and CSMA/CD is at that point only relevant to other hosts waiting for their time to talk to another host on the same bus?

So a.), b.) or something else? (I currently try to learn that stuff and this detail is nebulous in the mental model I am building)

edit: basically, the host(A) that wants to send the acknowledgement, how does he do so while the host(B) waiting for them is still sending (since he(A) would always sense the other carrier(B) while trying to do so)?
Craton
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States17281 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-06-07 14:42:30
June 07 2016 14:34 GMT
#11680
I'll preface this by saying it's been a decade since I knew all this well.

CSMA/CD exists for things like devices that are connected to a hub or daisy chained together (oldschool networking), where traffic going to any host is being sent to every host, rather than having a switch determining which hosts to send to (and to not send to). What basically happens is a host determines that "nobody is currently transmitting" and then it sends its stuff, but if another host does the same thing at the same time you have two sets of traffic being sent out at the same time, so you end up with two pieces of data sent through the same cable(s) and effectively colliding, so the receiving hosts can't make use of it. I don't think there's really any kind of "rhythm" developed, as devices basically just send as soon as they think the cable is open. Some networking options use "tokens," so a host wanting to send will request the token and only the token holder can transmit.

This is more of a problem where bidirectional cables are being used. These days I'm pretty sure receiving and transmitting is done on separate wires and, combined with with hubs being obsolete, isn't really a problem anymore. Basically, each device is connected directly to a switch in a "star" pattern, with separate wires for transmitting/receiving to/from the switch, and the switch handles determining which hosts to send things to based on information in the Ethernet frame (a frame is like a packet, but at the switch level instead of the router level).

Anyway, you're looking at TCP's ACK in too narrow of a view. Consider things at an Internet or WAN level, where the sender and receiver are in disparate locations. The receiver can send something, but it can fail to ever reach the host due to any number of routing, switching, or application issues. Even if the data is received, it might've been corrupted in transit. When TCP fails to receive the expected ACK, the data will get resent. CSMA/CD wouldn't apply here because there was never a collision.

Basically the receiver requests a certain "thing," and the sender is chunking it up (into packets) and sending it, so if the receiver never says "I received this chunk," the sender will send it again. Obviously there are some restrictions in place so they don't try resending it forever.

It sounds like you're under the impression that basically when devices are communicating that they basically stop everything else while they send and receive to each other, but in reality they can keep handling all kinds of other traffic at the same time. It's basically just the one "request" that's doing this particular series of send/acknowledge, but all your other network traffic is still being done in between those (network traffic typically happens in terms of milliseconds, after all).
twitch.tv/cratonz
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