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Sup everybody, so I have decided that for christmas and my birthday (My birthday is 11/22) I am going to have my parents get me a bunch of computer components so I can finally actually get use out of whatever gifts I ask for.
So far this is the build I have if anyone is curious
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=14306225
I am going to wait for black friday/cyber monday and try to score some cheap ram and a 2tb HD I am probably also going to use a SSD for my main drive.
Anyway, I read the computer help thread but nothing really directly answers my questions, on top of that googling isn't helping me much here.
I am stuck between these two motherboards
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131631
This one is very high rated and a little better, it doesn't support 1600 ram from the looks of it, but I am going to use 1333, but if I ever need to upgrade for some reason it might be nice to have that feature available, although it does have ram overclocking options which go over that. I don't plan on OCing, at least at the moment so its not important.
this is the second mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130269
This one right now is around 50$ cheaper with some rebate they have going and it still has 2 PCI 16x slots which is what I will need for my 5770 if I decide to crossfire it later on.
Both mobo have the same integrated card on it, a 4290 the only real difference I see is the more expensive one has PCI x4 and x1 card slots, which I don't really know the practical use for. Apparently a USB 3.0 card uses the x4 slots which I might need a couple of years down the line.
Basically I am wondering what you guys think, is it worth getting the more expensive mobo for a few extra PCI slots that I may or may not use? Is there any other reasons to go with the higher end mobo?
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Austin10831 Posts
I know the thought of getting a new motherboard just makes your heart want to burst forth from your chest cavity but please don't make all-caps thread names.
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You know, if some admin wants to lowercase my blog title, i'd understand. I got caught up in the excitement of writing. Oh and the reason I am asking now is because the cheaper mobo loses a 20$ rebate is has going right now in a day, so I figured I might as well get that now if its good enough since the odds of it going on sale aren't too high if I wait.
If the more expensive one is considerably better, I will probably end up waiting until after Cyber Monday to get it.
Any other comments are more than welcome. As for my PSU which isn't listed on there, I am getting a 700w corsair one from best buy, a friend of mine there gets it for like 90$ and it seems like a good value.
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On November 17 2010 05:54 BroOd wrote:
I know the thought of getting a new motherboard just makes your heart want to burst forth from your chest cavity but please don't make all-caps thread names.
I realized after I hit post rofl sorry brood <3
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Austin10831 Posts
On November 17 2010 05:56 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 05:54 BroOd wrote:
I know the thought of getting a new motherboard just makes your heart want to burst forth from your chest cavity but please don't make all-caps thread names. I realized after I hit post rofl sorry brood <3
np. I actually have the 1st motherboard you linked with the x4 955 and have no complaints. The 1600 isn't really a big issue for me though. I can't help you much other than that, and I'm gonna move this to tech support since you'll probably get higher quality feedback there.
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If you want wireless internet you're going to have to go with the 2nd board because if you Crossfire with the first board, you end up losing any expansion slots you could use for a wireless adapter.
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thanks, I kind of figured it would be a little overboard for a tech support question. But then again there isn't really a topic that discusses which motherboards to get. The first one did look really good and I want to stick with brands I am comfortable with, or that others recommend well which is why I was heavily looking at corsair/asus for parts. I haven't actually built a computer before so I wanted to make sure I don't buy really bad off brand stuff. Currently the computer comes out to around 650$ which isn't bad at all cost wise, but I figured cutting costs isn't a huge problem as long as I am not losing lots of features.
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On November 17 2010 06:05 FragKrag wrote:
If you want wireless internet you're going to have to go with the 2nd board because if you Crossfire with the first board, you end up losing any expansion slots you could use for a wireless adapter.
I don't actually plan on using wireless internet, I refuse to do wireless on a desktop for a variety of reasons. But did you mean I would have to go with the 1st board? The second one is the one that is cheaper with less PCI slots.
Also the second one seems to be a micro ATX form, if I change my set up to that will the computer be big enough to fit two large video cards like the 5770? I currently have a slimline tower which is small as shit, I don't think Micro ATX is that small but I am not familiar with the other standards in mobo/case/PSU size.
Micro ATX is apparently a slimline size (go google!) but switching isn't a problem as long as it would still support both video cards when I decide to crossfire it.
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I have the ASUS M4A89GTD in my current computer, and I can tell you it's pretty awesome.
The ASUS mobo has the turbo key and core unlocker which make black-edition CPUs perform a little better just by flicking the switch. Check out this article, the turbo key + core unlocker give a pretty nice boost to performance.
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On November 17 2010 06:56 PiousMartyr wrote:I have the ASUS M4A89GTD in my current computer, and I can tell you it's pretty awesome. The ASUS mobo has the turbo key and core unlocker which make black-edition CPUs perform a little better just by flicking the switch. Check out this article, the turbo key + core unlocker give a pretty nice boost to performance.
Was that article written by an ASUS employee?
bad, bad review
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Alright... First of all, do you have an OEM operating system? Motherboard replacements aren't as simple as just replacing it, your operating system authentication is encrypted onto your current motherboard, so if you have a pre made computer, it might be more difficult. If you get lucky you might just be able to squeak by with a windows repair, but you risk your computer being a little unstable.
If I were you, I'd go for first one, since you're not paying for it. Ram memory speed isn't really that important, but it's kind of nice... If you wanna save your parents a couple bucks and still get a wicked board, you should look into this one.
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=49467&vpn=770-G45&manufacture=MSI/MicroStar
I have this board.
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If you crossfire, both video cards will be limited to 8x lanes on both motherboards it looks like.
You might be able to crossfire the onboard ATI 4290.. but I'm not sure if that would help or hinder performance. As for your vidcard.. I would wait to see what the new 6900 series ATI/AMD video cards can do in the next few months. If you can't wait.. look at the 6800 series AMD cards.. pretty good bang for your buck.
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I still don't think AMD processors are even near the same level as the Intel Core i7's. I strongly suggest that you reconsider. The core i7's are still relatively affordable.
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I agree with you rbkl, but the cheapest i7 on newegg is 280. Hes looking around the 165 range. Maybe your referring to the i5/i3 class.
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On November 17 2010 06:05 FragKrag wrote:
If you want wireless internet you're going to have to go with the 2nd board because if you Crossfire with the first board, you end up losing any expansion slots you could use for a wireless adapter.
You can get USB wireless adapters too.
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the main difference (aside from price) is the ATX vs micro ATX form
if you're getting an ATX case, I'd get the ATX motherboard, since your components will be a little more spaced out and heat will be less of an issue (especially since you are going for quad-core AMD which can run hot)
think about getting an aftermarket HSF because the stock one is really loud
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On November 17 2010 08:00 rbkl wrote:
I still don't think AMD processors are even near the same level as the Intel Core i7's. I strongly suggest that you reconsider. The core i7's are still relatively affordable.
AMD's are indeed not as good as (top) i7's, but the top Phenoms are just as good as the medium level i7's on the benchmarks. Buying an AMD is not a bad choice at all, especially when you consider the dude's asking for something around the 150 dollar price range and you can very easily overclock the Phenoms Quad Core Black Edition to something like 3.8ghz or 4.1 with water cooling. That's actually pretty good.
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I have that ASUS M4A89GTD mobo and I like it a lot, it has a nice turbo key feature on the motherboard that allows it to easily overclock cpu if u ever decide to.
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On November 17 2010 07:44 .Theory wrote:Alright... First of all, do you have an OEM operating system? Motherboard replacements aren't as simple as just replacing it, your operating system authentication is encrypted onto your current motherboard, so if you have a pre made computer, it might be more difficult. If you get lucky you might just be able to squeak by with a windows repair, but you risk your computer being a little unstable. If I were you, I'd go for first one, since you're not paying for it. Ram memory speed isn't really that important, but it's kind of nice... If you wanna save your parents a couple bucks and still get a wicked board, you should look into this one. http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=49467&vpn=770-G45&manufacture=MSI/MicroStarI have this board.
I use a cracked windows 7 version, but on top of that I am building an entire new computer. I am not replacing a motherboard, I was just referencing how much I loathe my current machine. but thanks, that was informative.
On November 17 2010 07:45 Souljah wrote:
If you crossfire, both video cards will be limited to 8x lanes on both motherboards it looks like.
You might be able to crossfire the onboard ATI 4290.. but I'm not sure if that would help or hinder performance. As for your vidcard.. I would wait to see what the new 6900 series ATI/AMD video cards can do in the next few months. If you can't wait.. look at the 6800 series AMD cards.. pretty good bang for your buck.
A question about this, if it can only use 8x lanes either way would that even matter if I crossfired it? And iirc if you crossfire two different cards it basically dumbs down your better card so you have two shitty ones I thought. Also what motherboards would allow for maximum efficiency for crossfire any recommendations? It might not be a huge deal though, I mean I don't play many PC games, basically this is going to be a new computer for SC2 and any sequels to the game I decide to buy. The issue currently is any decent UMS or 3on3 game lags the shit out of my computer even on low settings.
And I chose AMD because they run a little cheaper and in my case I won't be heavily utilizing a processor since I am not going to be rendering videos and most games utilize a dualcore processor, so I figure a quad will last me a while anyway. I know Intel is better for stuff like that, plus if you put in an Nvidia card you can usually do a dual boot, but I don't really need any of that so I chose a better price point with easier overclocking options should it be necessary.
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Yeah, crossfiring two cards that aren't the same model isn't exactly ideal.. But I have to ask... How come you're planning on running 12 gigs of RAM if you're not 3D rendering? I'm pretty sure you're only going to really need 4 gigs to run the game with maybe a couple other apps running.
Also, your choice with the AMD Black Edition is probably going to blow away SC2 already, I don't really think you're going to need to crossfire, SC2 honestly isn't a very hardware heavy game. My buddy runs a really old quad core and an old ATI 4000 series with 6 gigs of RAM. He runs ultra 3v3's just fine, man.
Either way, have a happy birthday dude. That is a monster machine and you really shouldn't worry about it if that's exactly what you get..... Other than the power supply, which I assume you already have. xD
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thanks a lot, and yeah I am not running 12 gigs of ram, I am refining my build and adding/removing stuff until the sales go off in newegg. I am going to probably get 8 gigs of ram, I was just reading reviews on some patriot ram to see if people recommend it since it is REALLY cheap for what it was giving me.
I figured my build would handle SC2 fine, I like to think for the future though, if for some reason I buy a new game for PC that isn't a SC2 expansion I wanted to make sure I would be able to set up crossfire and it be able to efficiently run the game, I figured crossfire would be cheaper than actually buying a whole new card, but then again it probably would be only a marginal difference.
The PSU I am getting is this http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Corsair - Gaming Series 700-Watt ATX CPU Power Supply/1073697.p?id=1218217267616&skuId=1073697&st=corsair 700&cp=1&lp=1
A friend can get it for me for just 90~. It seems like a good price for a PSU when I was shopping around.
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In my main use computer at home I am using the msi 890gxm motherboard. Im pretty sure its the exact one you linked to. I have no experience with your first choice.
Its a good board if you are sure you want AMD. I bought it because I heard that it will be compatible with future procs like bulldozer. However, I concede that intel usually has its sh*t together more. I don't really know how to explain it.
I'm not sure why you are considering a matx board if you have a case that can fit a larger board. I use the matx 890gxm because I need a powerful matx board for a matx case. But if I were you I would get a larger mb. Its easier to work on a larger one.
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On November 17 2010 15:37 MOOG wrote:
Its a good board if you are sure you want AMD. I bought it because I heard that it will be compatible with future procs like bulldozer.
It won't be. AM3 processors will work in AM3+ motherboards, but AM3+ processors like bulldozer won't work in AM3 motherboards.
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On November 17 2010 15:51 Mindcrime wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2010 15:37 MOOG wrote:
Its a good board if you are sure you want AMD. I bought it because I heard that it will be compatible with future procs like bulldozer.
It won't be. AM3 processors will work in AM3+ motherboards, but AM3+ processors like bulldozer won't work in AM3 motherboards.
well shit man. I dun goofed.
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Oh god, I just found a deal on another Mobo for anyone whose looking. It seems great and even fully supports crossfire with double x16 support, not shaving it to x8 each.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131363&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-13-131-363-_-Product
Newegg daily deal.
Edit: I am also trying to weigh the pros/cons of each board. So far I see less PCI slots on the above one, but under features the previous board lists many more, but I dunno if that is just supposed to be showy. The no USB 3.0 thing kind of sucks, since I wouldn't have any way to add it in besides losing a PCI Express slot which defeats the purpose of it being able to fully crossfire without losing that 20% efficiency by dumbing down to x8.
Oh and they also have an nvidia 460 on sale today for like 160~
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The difference between x8/x8 and x16/x16 is minuscule, less than 5%. I don't know where you got 20% from. I would consider having USB3 much more important.
No need for 8GB of ram unless you are doing lots of video editing, and in that case you should be getting an X6.
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I read somewhere online (I think tom's?) that is was like a 20% decrease to a video card. I can't really see the speeds of USB 3.0 being beneficial for anything besides USB networking cards and external hard drives, for things like mice, keyboard, webcam I just doubt the quality difference would be significant and for external drives I have eSata which is faster and for networking I would hardwire anyway.
But yeah, you are probably right about me going overboard on ram my friend does crazy streaming/sc2 on max setting among other shit and runs just fine with 6. I just figured be safe for later but I am sure I can lower it. For a couple of things on there I was waiting until black friday/cyber monday for sales and would change some shit out. The only thing that is really staying is the Phenom II 965 and the Mobo which probably won't go on sale. Rest of the parts I have selected are just worst case scenario if I can't get good deals on the two days.
Edit:
I was wrong, it is only a marginal loss of like 5%
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/296100-33-tomshardware source
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Don't get the ASUS board. Go with the other one. If your ASUS board breaks they will not fix it. I know from personal experience.
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All the boards are Asus O_O and exceptionally high rated. I am surprised their customer service would suck considering they go off reputation a lot.
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Asus makes great boards but their support is pretty weak, I'm not aware of any motherboard manufacturers where this is not the case though. However due to their huge market share you are usually able to find help somewhere.
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Since you are talking about usb3 I would like to add my 2 cents.
I use eSATA for backing up to my external hard drive. It gives satisfactory speeds-perhaps a little less than I expect.
I have usb 3 available but I dont plan on using it anytime soon, and I would have no idea what to use it for. I prefer pci wireless adapters so that I can use an aftermarket antenna, so i will probably never use that thing. Hell, on my 890gxm, I seem to have an issue with having the usb3 controller on. When I was on ubuntu 10.04 there was some sort of sleep/power issue and disabling the usb3 controller fixed my problem.
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Well to respond to that, if you are using eSata with anything besides 7200 drives the speed of the drive bottle necks the eSata cable since it can't retrieve the data as fast as the cable can send it. I think eSata is 6gb/s and 5400 drives only can read at 3gb/s? I haven't looked it up in a while but USB 3.0 is slower, I don't remember the exact speeds on it. I feel the same way about USB 3.0, I just don't see the need for it since anything you NEED to go really fast you would prefer to be PCI Express or eSata which is only hard drives and wireless adapters.
Edit: Upon googling to confirm what I said I am wrong. USB 3.0 matches eSata in speed at 3.0Gb/s roughly but USB 3.0 can have a faster cable.
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EPT
