|
When using this resource, please read FragKrag's opening post. The Tech Support forum regulars have helped create countless of desktop systems without any compensation. The least you can do is provide all of the information required for them to help you properly. |
Test builds on the website that you linked and the ones I linked are all on stock settings. Disregarding the overclock, and with a 10% +/- offset on the amount of power drawn... the GPU alone draws 300W+ under load. If you add an overclocked i7 (let's say 3930k @ 4.3 ghz) which we will assume sits at 80W (we will disregard a +/- offset) would bring us to about 380W just for the GPU/CPU.
We have not yet accounted for the case fan (in this case, only one chassis fan is included), the CPU cooler, the HDD/SSD, and the RAM.
Of course, it would be enough to run it... but it wouldn't be ideal due to the fact that you never want to load a PSU up that high for such prolonged periods. On idle, it would (on estimate) draw about 150W ~ 180W for just the CPU/GPU. If the OP plans to idle for 80% of the PC's on-time then the PSU will most likely serve him just fine, but if this is not the case, then changing the PSU to a 550 ~ 650W PSU would be the best course of action.
|
On August 07 2013 00:22 Ata wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 23:32 Military wrote:Increase the power supply. The build needs about 415W to operate, and almost completely loading the PSU to its' maximum isn't the best idea. Why are you talking out of your ass? http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/770Idle Power Consumption Total System Power Consumption in Watts (Lower is Better) 112 Load Power Consumption - Battlefield 3 Total System Power Consumption in Watts (Lower is Better)360 Load Power Consumption - FurMark Total System Power Consumption in Watts (Lower is Better)387 25% load at idle 80% load at gaming http://www.anandtech.com/show/5698/rosewill-capstone-450w-and-650w-80plus-gold/5Efficiency and Power Factor 230 VAC Load Efficiency PFC 5% 81.52% 0.797 10% 87.21% 0.810 20% 91.35% 0.839 50% 92.11% 0.949 80% 91.52% 0.979 100% 90.74% 0.981 110% 90.14% 0.984
Have you ever seen a PSU's life stay the same when it is being run @ high loads for prolonged periods? The load efficiency isn't the only thing you look at when you decide if it can handle what you throw at it. I can run my build off a 500W PSU but it'll die within a month because of being pushed to 90% load constantly.
How about you stop talking out of your ass so that you understand that LOAD EFFICIENCY ISN'T THE ONLY THING THERE IS TO CONSIDER?
The PSU can be efficient but that doesn't stop its' components from wearing out, it doesn't stop the PSU from overworking and causing damage in the process.
Imagine. Bitcoin mining, a stock GPU mines 12hrs/day... STOCK SETTINGS yet the GPU's lifespan is incredibly decreased after just a month of mining. Why? Because even if it is doing its' job within the normal specs of the card, it is being overworked for too long.
Run that PSU @ 80% ~ 90% load constantly, you'll see a decrease in life span. With both of your logics, I can run tri-sli Titans on a 1KW PSU without encountering any issues.
|
On August 07 2013 00:26 Military wrote:
Test builds on the website that you linked and the ones I linked are all on stock settings. Disregarding the overclock, and with a 10% +/- offset on the amount of power drawn... the GPU alone draws 300W+ under load. If you add an overclocked i7 (let's say 3930k @ 4.3 ghz) which we will assume sits at 80W (we will disregard a +/- offset) would bring us to about 380W just for the GPU/CPU.
We have not yet accounted for the case fan (in this case, only one chassis fan is included), the CPU cooler, the HDD/SSD, and the RAM.
Of course, it would be enough to run it... but it wouldn't be ideal due to the fact that you never want to load a PSU up that high for such prolonged periods. On idle, it would (on estimate) draw about 150W ~ 180W for just the CPU/GPU. If the OP plans to idle for 80% of the PC's on-time then the PSU will most likely serve him just fine, but if this is not the case, then changing the PSU to a 550 ~ 650W PSU would be the best course of action.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6025/radeon-hd-7970-ghz-edition-review-catching-up-to-gtx-680/3
The normal 7970 has a 250w tdp, you know that right? Even the 7970GE is a 250w tdp, which means in reality the 7970 draws less than 250w.
You realize that a 130w tdp CPU is going to draw WAY more than 80w when it is overclocked, right?
You realize the rosewill capstone is rated for 450w @ 50 Celsius, meaning it could easily be rated at 550w @40celsius, like other PSUs are?
Also yes we have. Anandtech doesn't remove the SSD, ram, cooler, and case fans when they run their tests... You have also completely ignored my statement about at the wall versus the actual power requirement. Nice job.
Edit: and Anandtech DOES test with an overclocked CPU by the way.
|
Yeah a wall draw of 360W is likely a system draw of about 324W worst case scenario, and yeah, the a stock haswell is going to be drawing at least 50w less than that overclocked powerhog they used. And a quality powersupply like the capstone 450 could be run at or above capacity for years on end, it's significantly better than 95% of psu's under 600W.
|
On August 07 2013 00:26 Military wrote:
Test builds on the website that you linked and the ones I linked are all on stock settings. Disregarding the overclock, and with a 10% +/- offset on the amount of power drawn... the GPU alone draws 300W+ under load. If you add an overclocked i7 (let's say 3930k @ 4.3 ghz) which we will assume sits at 80W (we will disregard a +/- offset) would bring us to about 380W just for the GPU/CPU.
We have not yet accounted for the case fan (in this case, only one chassis fan is included), the CPU cooler, the HDD/SSD, and the RAM.
Of course, it would be enough to run it... but it wouldn't be ideal due to the fact that you never want to load a PSU up that high for such prolonged periods. On idle, it would (on estimate) draw about 150W ~ 180W for just the CPU/GPU. If the OP plans to idle for 80% of the PC's on-time then the PSU will most likely serve him just fine, but if this is not the case, then changing the PSU to a 550 ~ 650W PSU would be the best course of action.
that's already impossible so stop right now
a 7970 is a 6 pin + 8 pin connector which can draw maximum 300w, 75 from the pcie slot, 75 from the 6 pin and 150 from the 8 pin
hdd, ssd, cooler, etc... are like 3-5w each, combined for a total of what... 25w max?
oh and btw the capstone can handle more then 450w anyways
you sir, have no idea what you are talking about
|
Some people fold or mine 24/7 for years on a decent power supply. Rosewill Capstone is above that level. More importantly, the average user asking for advice here and claiming to use the computer for "gaming and streaming" isn't going to be running their computers heavily 24/7.
But the important thing is that all your base estimates are way too high, Military. 415W, seriously? You know how much non-overclocked Haswell i5 takes up (CPU portion only; no IGP use)? If you want to look at HD 7970 power consumption under loads, check here:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/26.html
though honestly, I'd expect the figures to be a bit higher these days because those measurements were with much earlier drivers. With improved performance these days, there is greater utilization of resources in the chip, so higher power draw... but still generally under rated TDP because these things throttle themselves.
edit:
On August 07 2013 01:55 Rachnar wrote:
a 7970 is a 6 pin + 8 pin connector which can draw maximum 300w, 75 from the pcie slot, 75 from the 6 pin and 150 from the 8 pin
hdd, ssd, cooler, etc... are like 3-5w each, combined for a total of what... 25w max?
For the record, the connectors themselves (and electronics behind them) don't regulate power draw. Those numbers are just PCIe specs / guidelines, which sometimes even get violated by reference cards. Say, GTX 470 FurMark load can exceed 225W, and that thing only has two 6-pins. It's not a realistic scenario you should be quoting though.
3.5" hard drive may be more in the 8W range (more on spinup and a bit more for heavy load) but depends on usage, SSD is probably lower on typical usage, and so is a typical heatsink fan unless a faster model at max speed... but overall, 3-5W on average per device listed is about right. It's not a lot, really.
|
On August 07 2013 01:56 Myrmidon wrote:Some people fold or mine 24/7 for years on a decent power supply. Rosewill Capstone is above that level. More importantly, the average user asking for advice here and claiming to use the computer for "gaming and streaming" isn't going to be running their computers heavily 24/7. But the important thing is that all your base estimates are way too high, Military. 415W, seriously? You know how much non-overclocked Haswell i5 takes up (CPU portion only; no IGP use)? If you want to look at HD 7970 power consumption under loads, check here: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/26.htmlthough honestly, I'd expect the figures to be a bit higher these days because those measurements were with much earlier drivers. With improved performance these days, there is greater utilization of resources in the chip, so higher power draw... but still generally under rated TDP because these things throttle themselves. edit: Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 01:55 Rachnar wrote:
a 7970 is a 6 pin + 8 pin connector which can draw maximum 300w, 75 from the pcie slot, 75 from the 6 pin and 150 from the 8 pin
hdd, ssd, cooler, etc... are like 3-5w each, combined for a total of what... 25w max? For the record, the connectors themselves (and electronics behind them) don't regulate power draw. Those numbers are just PCIe specs / guidelines, which sometimes even get violated by reference cards. Say, GTX 470 FurMark load can exceed 225W, and that thing only has two 6-pins. It's not a realistic scenario you should be quoting though. 3.5" hard drive may be more in the 8W range (more on spinup and a bit more for heavy load) but depends on usage, SSD is probably lower on typical usage, and so is a typical heatsink fan unless a faster model at max speed... but overall, 3-5W on average per device listed is about right. It's not a lot, really.
Huh, then i don't know how to read my bad, but isn't it pretty dangerous to go past that then?
|
Go past the device power draw limits in the specs? Not really. Overclocked cards go past those all the time. Some of the custom two-GPU or special edition cards released from the likes of Asus, etc., also go past that sometimes.
AFAIK it's some kind of mostly meaningless agreement to try to get motherboard makers, graphics card makers, and power supply makers mostly in line.
The more power is drawn, the higher the current there is going through the wires and through PCB traces, so there are more I^2 * R power losses in them, and they heat up more. Past a certain point, they'll get way too hot. They'll also lose some more voltage due to I * R... but the voltage regulators should largely take care of that. It's not like GPUs are running off of the nominal 12V.
Anyway, adding two more ground wires to a 6-pin connector (to make an 8-pin) doesn't physically increase the power that can be safely handled by 2x. The physics don't work that way. It's more a matter of policy and standards.
Hence, you should look at actual power draws and not pay too much attention to 75 + ___ + ___ calculations. Most cards draw under the PCIe spec for a card with its connectors, though, but that doesn't tell you about the "how much" and other details.
|
Ugh, I need a replacement for my G.Skill RipJawsX DIMM Kit 16GB PC3-19200U CL11-13-13-31 (DDR3-2400), was about to order right now and obviously the most confusing component isn't available anymore. :3
(will order from www.alternate.de + www.mindfactory.de at the same time, sadly neither seem to have G.Skill 16GB 2400 sets in general anymore T_T)
Closest one I could fine is this, it's 1866 tho. Wouldn't be the end of the world, but maybe someone has a quick model from a different brand in mind (no gigantic heatsinks please).
|
And another question. Monitor cables.
Monitor 1) (Dell 3008) says it has "DVI x2 (with HDCP), D-sub, HDMI, DisplayPort, component, composite, S-video" connections.
Monitor 2) (BenQ 241W) says it has "D-Sub/DVI-D/S-Video/Composite/HDMI"
Now the graphics card (MSI 770GTX TF) says it has "DVI Output x2 (Dual-link DVI-I x 1, Dual-link DVI-D x 1)" - am I correct in assuming I need one DVI-I to DVI-I cable and one DVI-D to DVI-I cable? ;;
|
The man in blue already covered pretty much everything. The reason I state that you are/were talking out of your ass is because you made your statement with nothing to back it up.
1. (Your first reply) to me was about build requiring higher W with no sources (website or anything) edit: oh and 80% load isnt the maximum :s
2. 2nd reply was regarding psu running @ high loads for prolonged periods being horrible, yet you ignored that the user is not gaming 24/7, not all games will put a big load on the psu and very importantly didnt provide any sources.
|
On August 07 2013 03:39 r.Evo wrote:
And another question. Monitor cables.
Monitor 1) (Dell 3008) says it has "DVI x2 (with HDCP), D-sub, HDMI, DisplayPort, component, composite, S-video" connections.
Monitor 2) (BenQ 241W) says it has "D-Sub/DVI-D/S-Video/Composite/HDMI"
Now the graphics card (MSI 770GTX TF) says it has "DVI Output x2 (Dual-link DVI-I x 1, Dual-link DVI-D x 1)" - am I correct in assuming I need one DVI-I to DVI-I cable and one DVI-D to DVI-I cable? ;;
DVI-I means it'll accept both analog and digital and DVI-D means digital only.
DVI-D can go into DVI-I but DVI-I cannot go into DVI-D unless you break the pins off.
|
@r.Evo:
I think it's usually DVI-I on the graphics card side. That connector can do both analog DVI-A and digital DVI-D and there's no DVI-I cables. You'll use a DVI-D cable to the screen.
EDIT: I looked it up and there's actually DVI-I cables.
|
So... to connect my gfx with 1xDVI-D and 1x-DVI-I to monitors with DVI-D I need 1x DVI-I -> DVI-D cable and 1x DVI-D -> DVI-D cable?
|
You can put a DVI-D into DVI-I, but not the reverse. So to not make mistakes and have everything fit, buy DVI-D, but don't you already have cables?
+ Show Spoiler +dvi-d cable fits into dvi-i, but dvi-i won't fit into dvi-d because of those four pins on the left: ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/DVI_Connector_Types.svg/200px-DVI_Connector_Types.svg.png)
|
Duh, you're obviously right. I completely brainfarted and assumed my monitor cables are male -> female instead of male -> male. NEVERMIND, CARRY ON. (Currently running one monitor on DVI and the other on VGA :>)
(RAM tip welcome :3)
|
On geizhals.de you can easily filter for ram speeds and 1.5v and 16gb kit of 2x sticks, and mindfactory and alternate will be at the top with price (or at least close) for everything you'll find with it.
|
God, and I spent hours with the individual sites sorting methods which were utter crap. Will get those then unless someone shouts at me here within the next 10 minutes or so. Thanks for all the help guys, highly appreciated. <3
http://www.mindfactory.de/product_info.php/16GB-G-Skill-SNIPER-DDR3-2400-DIMM-CL11-Dual-Kit_884615.html
e: DDR3-2400 means 2400MHz, correct? The technical info on the site lists them as "Max. Frequenz: 1333MHz" -_- ... They also talk about 4 modules. Welp. WHY IS THIS SO HARD.
e2: nvm, think I figured it out. Gonna call them tomorrow to make sure it's the right one tho.
|
On August 06 2013 22:04 Military wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Builder series PSUs are LQ. Unless he wants his build to be destroyed... change the PSU. @ this price range, he should get an AMD APU and CF it with the 7770/7750. With an APU, that RAM would be a lot more effective and cost efficient. RAM speeds' effects on practical performance are minimal and incredibly low unless paired with an APU. SSD on an incredibly low budget... where is his main storage drive? On top of that, the 840 (non pro edition) isn't that great... By the way, usually the higher the SSD storage amount, the better the performance. i.e. 120 GB SSD speed < 256 GB SSD, in general.
Yes obviously CX430 are low quality but they're not going to blow up his computer as you claim...
2133MHz at $70 or 1600MHz at $69. You'd be a dumbass to pick 1600MHz at $69. But be my guest and scour the retailers for a 1.65v kit from Kingston to save a few dollars.
840 is fine for gamers, don't be an ignorant spec junkie. You're not going to notice the real world difference between a 840 and 840 Pro unless you're actually doing sequential writes regularly, have a side-by-side comparison, or timing it.
You realize DotA 2 is based on the Source engine which is DX9 right... which means it doesn't support Crossfire. Sure you can probably just get an A6 and run the game off that if you really wanted to. But suggesting Crossfire for DotA 2 suggests you're clueless.
On August 07 2013 00:26 Military wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Test builds on the website that you linked and the ones I linked are all on stock settings. Disregarding the overclock, and with a 10% +/- offset on the amount of power drawn... the GPU alone draws 300W+ under load. If you add an overclocked i7 (let's say 3930k @ 4.3 ghz) which we will assume sits at 80W (we will disregard a +/- offset) would bring us to about 380W just for the GPU/CPU.
We have not yet accounted for the case fan (in this case, only one chassis fan is included), the CPU cooler, the HDD/SSD, and the RAM.
Of course, it would be enough to run it... but it wouldn't be ideal due to the fact that you never want to load a PSU up that high for such prolonged periods. On idle, it would (on estimate) draw about 150W ~ 180W for just the CPU/GPU. If the OP plans to idle for 80% of the PC's on-time then the PSU will most likely serve him just fine, but if this is not the case, then changing the PSU to a 550 ~ 650W PSU would be the best course of action.
An overclocked 3930k does not consume 80w. If you want to throw some bullshit numbers around, you should probably provide a source.
All the links you provided clearly mention using an overclocked Sandybridge-E or Nehalem. And even if they were at stock settings, Sandybridge-E and Nehalem consumes a noticeable amount more than Haswell.
No, a typical gaming computer does not draw 150w idle. Again, you should probably provide a source for this bullshit claim of yours.
And you're really grasping at straws if you're trying to mention the other components to backup your claim. First off, a block of metal does not use power /facepalm SSDs don't use the 12v rail at all and even if it did, they use less than 5w under load while HDDs use under 10w under load.
I can assure you that you won't find a single source for your claims without resorting to photoshopping. Btw, all those websites you provided to backup your bullshit claim of the power draw for the 7970 measures system power consumption, not card power consumption. The majority of those reviews have system listed under their charts. System refers to the entire computer, not the card itself... if that wasn't obvious to you.
And maybe you should get in touch with reality because most computers do remain relatively idle for the majority of their uptime.
|
United Kingdom20294 Posts
On August 06 2013 22:00 Military wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2013 18:15 yaeger wrote:what is the best CPU and MB to get if you want to stream at 1080p and having the best experience while doing it( playing sc2 ofcourse)  budget 1200dollars If he wants to stream @ 1080p with a high BR... he should get an i7 instead of an i5. If he wants to stream @ 720p with a low ~ mid BR... he should get an i5. Since he wants his stream to be high quality (and assuming he will have a high BR) then he should be getting an i7, 2x 4770k.
Bitrate has a negligable effect on encoding time and with almost all of the performance losses from streaming coming from software screen capture etc and not lack of encoding power (on a high end cpu), i5-i7 is effectively identical AFAIK until you're trying to stream ~1920x1080@veryfast at over ~45fps for sc2. I have uninformed people all of the time try to argue that i7 is easily fine for 60 so i5 should be too ("lol it only uses 50% cpu max" when staring at workers T-T) but anybody who is doing any kind of quick stress test like loading an sc2 replay and dragging the camera around on the minimap quickly for a few seconds will see CPU load get high
If he wants to stream @ 1080p with a high BR... he should get an i7 instead of an i5.
If he wants to stream @ 720p with a low ~ mid BR... he should get an i5.
1080p60 = 124.416 million pixels
720p30 = 27.648 million pixels
Military, other opinions etc are welcomed (not enough of that around here), both sides should put in some effort not to argue though and you can discuss things in a less head-on way 
On August 07 2013 03:51 r.Evo wrote:
So... to connect my gfx with 1xDVI-D and 1x-DVI-I to monitors with DVI-D I need 1x DVI-I -> DVI-D cable and 1x DVI-D -> DVI-D cable?
I have my main monitor and an old 1280x1024 one, and my 770 has two DVI outputs (one dvi-i, one dvi-d)
+ Show Spoiler +
Since my secondary monitor has an analog connector (vga with a dvi adaptor) so i can't plug it into dvi-d, it needs to go into the dvi-i slot (which is a slut and will fit anything) and then i can fit my primary monitor into dvi-d (which doesn't have the holes for analog signal transfer, cause it's dvi-digital)
Hence, you should look at actual power draws and not pay too much attention to 75 + ___ + ___ calculations. Most cards draw under the PCIe spec for a card with its connectors, though, but that doesn't tell you about the "how much" and other details.
Indeed this, Belial rants constantly about how 7950's need increased power limit to run properly on stock, meanwhile 680 and 770 is the same GPU, the 680 has 170w tdp, the 770 has 230w tdp. In reality at max oc's on 1.2 volts, with unlimited power, if you can trust the power stat given in software that is used to control GPU-boost, they both run like 165 watts in unigine heaven and hitting 200 is really rare outside of specific synthetics. TDP is thrown out of the window with the 770 for no real reasons that i know of other than marketing and the fact that 680's were hitting tdp throttling with overclocking that you couldn't bypass without flashing an unofficial bios onto them, and now it's pretty much impossible to hit 230w plus the 13% or whatever headroom on a 770, specific games draw significantly more or less than others (on the leagues of 20% between one game running at 100% gpu and another) that can be confirmed as valid by simply setting a fan speed curve and watching the fan - if you tell it to ramp up slowly with temperatures it might reach 70% in Planetside 2 but only 60% in Crysis 3 to hold temperatures within the same window
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://media.bestofmicro.com/Z/L/386193/original/Gigabyte-View-Slot-Panel.jpg)
