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On February 19 2011 07:47 Myrmidon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2011 06:58 mav451 wrote:
Stick to skyR's advice - one GPU, that's it. SLI is more heat, more noise, and potentially driver nonsense anytime the driver is updated (b/c the SLI profile may be broken). Same thing applies to XFire.
If you aren't going multi-monitor, I really think multi-GPU isn't worth the hassle.
Also agreed. Just to eliminate any possible confusion, by "multi-monitor," mav means gaming where the game screen is split across multiple monitors (or at least, that's my interpretation based on reality. I don't claim to be a psychic usually  ). Think huge resolutions like 3 x 1920x1080 or whatnot. Even in that scenario, a single top-end card may be sufficient, especially if you're willing to ease a little off the max graphics settings. If you have multiple monitors but your game is on one monitor with ordinary desktop programs on the rest, a single GPU is enough for that. For the record, you still don't need 850W for SLI GTX 560. That's about what you want for (dual) SLI GTX 580. SLI GTX 560 would run great on a good 650W easily.
But under full load the 560 requires 352W of power itself. :/
Sauce
But I guess I'm in the mindset that 2x the cards, 2x the power. I admit that might be totally wrong. Is there a rule of thumb on how much adding another card will add to the power draw?
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@Triscuit
Yes, stick to a single GPU. You don't want the hassle of dealing with drivers, heat, games favoring CrossfireX, games not utilizing SLI, and all the issues.
352W is FULL system load which includes the CPU, HDDs, Fans, etc.
A GTX 560 has 2x 6pin pci-e connectors which provides 150W (75w each) and the PCI-E slot provides 75W. It can only draw a maximum of 225W in the worst case scenario. Gaming is no where near a worst case scenario.
650W is more than enough power for mid-range SLI setups.
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Furthermore, Anandtech, like most sites, lists the power draw at the wall. Power supplies are rated for DC output, which is the AC power they take multiplied by the efficiency.
Xbitlabs is usually a good place for figuring out power draws of video cards, since they have a specialized measurement setup where they can measure the DC power consumed by the video card alone, isolated from the rest of the system. Keep in mind that if you overclock the card and/or disable any kind of power throttling that may be present on newer cards (to prevent them from being overly stressed in synthetic loads), power draw will be higher than what you see there:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx-560-ti_4.html#sect0
On February 19 2011 08:52 skyR wrote:
A GTX 560 has 2x 6pin pci-e connectors which provides 150W (75w each) and the PCI-E slot provides 75W. It can only draw a maximum of 225W in the worst case scenario. Gaming is no where near a worst case scenario.
I'm not quite sure this is technically accurate, but I think every card will definitely adhere to those guidelines at a full realistic load (75 from PCI-E slot + 75W from each 6-pin + 150W from each 8-pin). This is for compliance and safety I think, to make sure the wires don't burn out from excessive current passing through them. I don't think the motherboard slots have any kind of over current protection or monitoring, though that would hypothetically only effect power draw from the slot itself. The auto-throttling on newer cards seems like a reasonable feature to me.
Wait a sec...
The GTX 465 is nominally 200W TDP (not the same as power consumption), and it only has two 6-pin PCI-E power connectors: 225W max if you go by the guidelines, right? Under OCCT, it reached above 230W. Granted, the card may have been a bad sample with the voltage set relatively high out of necessity, but it happened:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/video/display/geforce-gtx-465_5.html#sect0
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IMO one gtx460 fits price/performance much better than a single 560 or any SLI setup of the two
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Get an i5-2500k instead of an X6 if you are gaming. In reality there's very few situations where you would want to get an X6 anymore.
Power supply is way overkill.
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@Doodsmack
It would be a sin to buy a $200 processor that isn't Sandybridge (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115073). If you're not in a hurry, you should definitely wait for the P67 motherboards to be re-released back into the retail channels in March / April.
But if you can't wait, I'd suggest getting a Phenom II x4 955. You don't need a 6-core processor for a machine that will be primarily used for gaming. The majority of games in today's market still only utilize only 2 cores.
It is also a sin to spend $160 on a power supply that is not the Seasonic X or Corsair AX series. And also you don't need 850W to run 6850 in CrossfireX. A ~600W unit can easily handle these cards.
You may also want to invest in a simple heatsink such as the Coolermaster Hyper 212+ for overclocking.
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Hey guys,
i am currently running on a e8200 2gb ram and an ati 4850 and would like to get a new pc in the near future for like ~500€. the less i ve to spend the better. i ve close to no experience with hardware and the last time i build a pc is like 12 years ago.
can someone kind of build one for me and tell me why that is good? P:
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@ {ToT}ColmA
Is your current computer a custom built or some sort of Dell / HP prebuilt?
If it's a custom built than it would be in your best interest to re-use your case, dvd-drive, HDD (for storage purposes), graphics card, and possibly power supply.
You would just need to buy a new motherboard, processor, and ram. It'd be best to grab a Sandybridge processor (core i5 2300, 2400, or 2500) along with a H67 board and 2x2gb of DDR3 ram (1333mhz is fine) to go with it. Keep in mind that you won't be able to overclock without an K processor (ie. core i5 2500k or core i7 2600k) and a P67 board.
Than again, your current computer isn't bad for gaming. You just need to overclock your E8200, add another 2gb of ram, and possibly upgrade your graphics card to a GTX 460 or 560. If your current power supply can't handle a graphics card invite than it would be best to just get a new computer.
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The PC is nearly 4 years old, the hdd is pretty old and slow etc and the case is falling apart ^^; i probably need everything, it was a custom built thou
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@Doodsmack: I'm agreed with other comments. Phenom II X6 was a bad value for gaming, even before the Core i5-2500k (Sandy Bridge) was released. HX850 is really a top-end PSU, but it's really overkill, even if you want to Crossfire HD 6850s. Crossfire/SLI is really not worth the trouble and compatibility/drivers issues in general though--unless you're gaming on resolutions like 5760x1200, which you're not if you're getting that one monitor. So I'd recommend just getting a single higher-end graphics card.
@{ToT}ColmA: I picked out some parts along the lines of what skyR suggested, though I likewise think your current setup is still not that bad. Where are you planning on buying from? You can probably keep the HD 4850 for now and salvage the DVD drive. Here are replacements for everything else.
Core i5-2400 -- can't be overclocked much. Get the i5-2500k for about 30€ more if you want to overclock.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41226&agid=1617
Asus P8P67 LE -- this was just the cheapest LGA 1155 motherboard in stock. That should be your main criterion for evaluating motherboards unless you have specific needs in terms of functionality, layout, ports, etc.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=41298&agid=1601
Corsair 2 x 2GB DDR3 RAM -- RAM is RAM, so not much to say.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38051&agid=1192
Samsung SpinPoint F4 320GB -- a fast modern 7200 rpm drive. Try the F3 1TB if you want more capacity for not many more Euros in cost.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=37082&agid=689
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28152&agid=689
Corsair CX430 -- not a bad unit at all, but like most budget PSUs, it does not inspire confidence for very long term reliability. You would need to spend more to get something that is statistically more likely to last longer. With the relatively power-efficient Core i5-2400, there's enough power left to run a mid-high end GPU up to something like a HD 6950 or GTX 560 Ti.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=38997&agid=1627
Antec 300 -- a dated design perhaps. It's lacking some features more modern cases have, but it really shouldn't be falling apart in 4 years.
http://www2.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=23029&agid=631
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I feel like my pc is super slow, if i am browsing and ve sc2 started it gets laggy plus the system is superloud cause the hd 4850 fan is bad~
i dont feel that getting more ram / new gpu / new hdd just to boost the performance a bit is worthwhile and i will be better off just getting a new system.
i read bout sandy bridge having a motherboard problem with the 1155 and it will probably take till april till the new boards are out. is it worth to just wait for it or should i go for a phenom 955BE or something along those lines? even thou i dont know if a 955BE is even faster than my current e8200 ^^;
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@{ToT}ColmA
An E8200 to Phenom II X4 955 upgrade is definitely not worth it for the sole purpose of gaming. The two extra cores on the 955 helps with multi-tasking but will show you little to no improvements in the majority of today's games. You could easily just upgrade to a Q8200 or Q9550 without having to buy a new motherboard if you wanted two extra cores.
Some retailers are still selling the defective H67 / P67 (LGA1155) motherboards. The only problem these boards are with the SATA2 (3.0Gbps). If you have no intention of using more than 2 harddrives, you can just purchase one now and use the SATA3 (6.0Gbps) ports.
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The Sandy Bridge motherboard problem is that the SATA 3Gbps ports degrade over time, with more use. More precisely, there's a transistor in the PLL circuitry that is getting the wrong voltage for it design, so it tends to leak excess current and fail prematurely. They may eventually stop working, but they will not damage any devices you connect to it or your data. All those motherboards have at least two SATA 6Gbps (backwards compatible) that work without problem.
Unless you are using three or more SATA devices a lot, you're unlikely to have the ports fail. You would put your two most used SATA devices on the SATA 6Gbps ports, of course. PCI-E expansion cards with SATA ports are not expensive either, anyway. I think it's not a problem for most users, definitely not worth waiting until April for.
You're right that the difference between a E8200 and Phenom II X4 955 is not huge. There is a big difference for well-threaded applications that will use all four cores, but for a lot of games and in single-threaded performance, the gap is small. Then again, the difference between a Phenom II X4 and Sandy Bridge isn't extraordinary either, though it's significant.
The problem is just that 500€ is not sufficient to get an entirely new computer that is any better than your current one.
What are your HD 4850 temperatures like? Have you checked the cooling apparatus lately? Maybe you can fix something there, change fan settings, or something like that.
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On February 20 2011 10:29 skyR wrote:
@{ToT}ColmA
An E8200 to Phenom II X4 955 upgrade is definitely not worth it for the sole purpose of gaming. The two extra cores on the 955 helps with multi-tasking but will show you little to no improvements in the majority of today's games. You could easily just upgrade to a Q8200 or Q9550 without having to buy a new motherboard if you wanted two extra cores.
Some retailers are still selling the defective H67 / P67 (LGA1155) motherboards. The only problem these boards are with the SATA2 (3.0Gbps). If you have no intention of using more than 2 harddrives, you can just purchase one now and use the SATA3 (6.0Gbps) ports.
It really depends on what he wants do to with it. In SC2 the difference might not be that big, but overall the 955 is a lot better than the E8200. The Q8200 will perform worse than the E8200 in SC2 since it has a lower clock speed and less cache.
The Q9550 would be an upgrade option but new ones are way too expensive and even used ones on ebay are pretty expensive. It provides about the same performance as the Phenom X4 955 which is almost half the price.
In conclusion i would just buy a new harddrive and a new video card if you think your current one is to nosy + 2GB of memory and keep the cpu. From your posts it doesn't sound like you want to do much more than play sc2 right now, so save the rest of the money and buy a new system when you actually need it.
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Ok guys, looking for some advice.
To start of with: I suck at SC2. Not gonna make excuses, I'm just bad, but one reason why practice isn't making perfect is because my laptop is horrendous, so I'm getting crap FPS.
Now, I'm currently saving up a bit of cash but looking for an ultra-budget build here.
Here's what I'm toying with:
This barebones looks solid for the price. Will need an upgrade to 4GB of RAM and a dedicated graphics card, but one thing at a time is what I'm thinking. Get myself off the ground. And tbh, the integrated gfx in that barebones on 1024 x 768 will likely outperform my laptop anyway.
So I'm thinking pick that up, run it with an old HDD and DVD drive for a while whilst saving up. Then, when I have the cash, get myself an HD 5770 for about £100 (or if there's a better deal when i go to buy, get that) and get myself a Samsung Spinpoint terabyte drive.
Hows that looking, think that would be okay? I figure it should play SC2 fine on medium at a decent res, and should play most recent games on low settings, yes/no?
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Hungary11305 Posts
On February 21 2011 05:46 mehall wrote:
Ok guys, looking for some advice.
To start of with: I suck at SC2. Not gonna make excuses, I'm just bad, but one reason why practice isn't making perfect is because my laptop is horrendous, so I'm getting crap FPS.
Now, I'm currently saving up a bit of cash but looking for an ultra-budget build here.
There was quite a good thread for a budget build a while ago. You can find it here.
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Thanks all for the advice. I've decided to go with a Phenom II x4 955 and a single, higher-end video card rather than crossfire. Would there be much benefit to going with the Radeon HD 6970 2GB over the HD 5870? Would I notice a big difference with 2 GB over 1 GB?
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Ok, guys, a tricky one for you all now.
As you can see I'm from the good old U.K, and I'm looking for a build.
My budget is around £500 and I want to play mostly SC2 and stream it, along with maybe other games, (New Vegas, Dead Space 2, Bad Company 2) the list goes on, I would love if the build in question came with a 1920 x 1080 monitor since that's what I'm hoping to use.
So yeah, £500, Streaming and gaming, and streaming said games, 1920 x 1080.
EDIT: A 1TB hard drive would be beautiful, but 500gb will do :3
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5930 Posts
On February 21 2011 09:02 MrSnibbles wrote:
Ok, guys, a tricky one for you all now.
As you can see I'm from the good old U.K, and I'm looking for a build.
My budget is around £500 and I want to play mostly SC2 and stream it, along with maybe other games, (New Vegas, Dead Space 2, Bad Company 2) the list goes on, I would love if the build in question came with a 1920 x 1080 monitor since that's what I'm hoping to use.
So yeah, £500, Streaming and gaming, and streaming said games, 1920 x 1080.
EDIT: A 1TB hard drive would be beautiful, but 500gb will do :3
British people buy computer hardware from Scan right?
Hard Drive: 500GB Samsung F3 Spinpoint
Case and Power Supply: Antec Tower with good 380w power supply
Memory: Corsair 4GB 1333mhz RAM
Graphics Card: HD6850
Processor: i5 2300
Motherboard: Asus P8H67-M-LE
Total: £522
Probably the cheapest you can go without compromising quite heavily on anything (which is going the Athlon II route). Mind you this computer will run all of your games easily so its actually a very powerful computer for the price.
I didn't include the operating system in the cost because if you are in any form of education, you can get a valid copy of Windows 7 Professional for cheaper than anyone can offer you if you go through Microsoft. Your computer science department should be handing these out for like $10 each.
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EPT
