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That graph is from this article which you can find posted in various places: http://hwbot.org/forum/showthread.php?t=45302
I don't know if those posts are all the same content or if the article has changes and different versions.
I don't think the author explicitly says what he measures in those graphs but I did not read everything - only searched for sentences with the word "power". There's a section with a photo where he does sub-zero stuff and explains he measures on the pins of the 8-pin power connector for the CPU area. If he did the same for the earlier graphs in the article, it should mean it's really only the CPU.
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Hardware measurement of ATX12V power connector. I think some power maybe comes from the ATX 24-pin connector too, but maybe not. Depends on the mobo I guess.
That's including losses in the VRMs then, though that shouldn't be a lot, especially at those temps.
So say i7-3770k full load on high OC at around 1.4V going around 150W was a reasonable guess earlier?
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CPU: Intel Core i5-3470
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-M LE H77 VSL
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 660
Memory: 8GB (still deciding on brand and model)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB
PSU: Antec Basiq VP550
Case: CoolerMaster K350
My primary concern at the moment is the motherboard and if it will at all be a bottleneck to the rest of the system. If so, I will look into spending on a better motherboard. My secondary concert is that of the PSU and if it will be enough for this build.
Another concern of mine is with the CPU and if it really is worth spending extra for a 3570. I plan to do no overclocking whatsoever, so I don't need the 3570K, an OC-friendly motherboard or an aftermarket CPU cooler.
My maximum budget is around $1000. Anything I should change around here? Perhaps something I can lower so I can spend more on the GPU?
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On March 23 2013 16:29 iTzSnypah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 16:14 Myrmidon wrote:
Belial, link to source of graphs? How is power measured? Software reported, at EPS12V connector, from wall? Unrelated but my computer pulls 364w from the wall under full synthetic load. Terrible I know. Also there is no software that can accurately measure power consumption of specific components.
AFAIK mine draws about 550w from the wall  . My powersupply is probably like 50+ . And no active PFC . Yes I really need a new one .
(2500k@4.4GHz,1.24v & 560ti@900MHz with some piece of shit cm psu)
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On March 23 2013 18:08 EthanKairos wrote:
CPU: Intel Core i5-3470
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-M LE H77 VSL
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 660
Memory: 8GB (still deciding on brand and model)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB
PSU: Antec Basiq VP550
Case: CoolerMaster K350
My primary concern at the moment is the motherboard and if it will at all be a bottleneck to the rest of the system. If so, I will look into spending on a better motherboard. My secondary concert is that of the PSU and if it will be enough for this build.
Another concern of mine is with the CPU and if it really is worth spending extra for a 3570. I plan to do no overclocking whatsoever, so I don't need the 3570K, an OC-friendly motherboard or an aftermarket CPU cooler.
My maximum budget is around $1000. Anything I should change around here? Perhaps something I can lower so I can spend more on the GPU?
The difference between the 3470 and 3570 is negligible. It is impossible for a motherboard to 'bottleneck' you, just make sure it has the connections you need. If you're playing gpu intensive games, an upgrade to a 7950/670 would be beneficial, but not necessary (660ti sucks).
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On March 23 2013 18:22 Rollin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2013 18:08 EthanKairos wrote:
CPU: Intel Core i5-3470
Motherboard: Asus P8H77-M LE H77 VSL
GPU: EVGA GeForce GTX 660
Memory: 8GB (still deciding on brand and model)
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB
PSU: Antec Basiq VP550
Case: CoolerMaster K350
My primary concern at the moment is the motherboard and if it will at all be a bottleneck to the rest of the system. If so, I will look into spending on a better motherboard. My secondary concert is that of the PSU and if it will be enough for this build.
Another concern of mine is with the CPU and if it really is worth spending extra for a 3570. I plan to do no overclocking whatsoever, so I don't need the 3570K, an OC-friendly motherboard or an aftermarket CPU cooler.
My maximum budget is around $1000. Anything I should change around here? Perhaps something I can lower so I can spend more on the GPU? The difference between the 3470 and 3570 is negligible. It is impossible for a motherboard to 'bottleneck' you, just make sure it has the connections you need. If you're playing gpu intensive games, an upgrade to a 7950/670 would be beneficial, but not necessary (660ti sucks).
I'll see if I can cut spending on the motherboard for a 670, then. I really just need one PCI expansion slot and USB 2.0 ports on it, anyway, since the only PCI card I use is a wireless adapter. What should I look for in chipsets, though? I have no experience in choosing chipsets.
Yeah, I heard the 660 Ti is overpriced for its performance, so I will avoid that.
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http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte/48359-ivy-bridge-overclocking-guide-extreme-ln2-section-guide-included.html
Graphs from sin's guide. I'm currently looking into more ways on figuring out power draw.
Also there is no software that can accurately measure power consumption of specific components.
No software can accurately measure vcore, temperature, or 12v rail voltage, doesn't mean it doesn't come close or give a picture. Not sure if any software comes close to accurate for power draw but i do see in hwinfo i have power readings.
My primary concern at the moment is the motherboard and if it will at all be a bottleneck to the rest of the system. If so, I will look into spending on a better motherboard. My secondary concert is that of the PSU and if it will be enough for this build
If not overclocking, you can really go with the cheapest motherboard possible (just google the specific model, make sure no huge issues with the particular model). Motherboard doesn't really 'bottleneck' (a very mis-used word), it can limit an overclock by overheating but if you aren't overclocking, it isn't an issue. You should also avoid micro-atx boards, they are cheaper for a reason, they are much worse than full size boards of similar price (weaker vrm, less features). It's basically paying a premium for smaller form factor.
The PSU is a poor choice. If you can link where you are buying from, we can help you make a better choice.
Do you really need 1TB hdd? How much space are you currently using? It's a real fail not to have an SSD in a modern build, given how cheap they are. I've used only 40gb in 3 years so a 64gb, blazing fast ssd, would be better for me than a slow hdd that i'd never use the space on. It's very easy to add a drive in the future.
It's better to go with a 7950 than a 660ti.
Go with 2x4GB of RAM, of the cheapest ram you can. If you want to spend a bit more, get Samsung low voltage 1600 CL10 1.35v ram, that's some great ram for very cheap that overclocks very significantly. Just google 'samsung miracle ram', although it's almost always sold out.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
AFAIK mine draws about 550w from the wall . My powersupply is probably like 50+ . And no active PFC . Yes I really need a new one .
(2500k@4.4GHz,1.24v & 560ti@900MHz with some piece of shit cm psu)
I dont think it's even possible to draw so much with such a system.. I mean even with an awful PSU.
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I'm thinking of buying a rosewill capstone 550w modular for $40 (from newegg@ebay, i got ebay coupons). I also have a cx600 and xfx pro 450w lol. bleh shipping kills resale value of psus, not going to be making much profit.
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The PSU is a poor choice. If you can link where you are buying from, we can help you make a better choice.
Huh. Wondering why it's on this list, then: http://www.overclock.net/t/183810/faq-recommended-power-supplies
I live in the Philippines, so my choice of shops is quite limited (not to mention their websites are sometimes unhelpful). Here is where I'm looking to buy all my parts, though: http://pcx.com.ph
The conversion rate from USD to PHP (Philippine Peso) is 1:41.
Do you really need 1TB hdd? How much space are you currently using? It's a real fail not to have an SSD in a modern build, given how cheap they are.
Absolutely. I have a lot of music and videos that I'd like to hold all in one place. Currently I have my 500GB HDD almost maxed out with 20GB left. I have been considering adding a small capacity SSD to this build, at least to install the OS on so that it boots up faster. Everything else will still be on the HDD.
Go with 2x4GB of RAM, of the cheapest ram you can.
Yep, I plan to get two sticks of 4GB to take advantage of dual channel.
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basiq isn't the worst psu, but that was a few years ago. the list isn't perfect, a bit dated, it stays up to date but not always. actually since you aren't overclocking it might be okay, but the price difference makes the neo eco a better choice.
Absolutely. I have a lot of music and videos that I'd like to hold all in one place. Currently I have my 500GB HDD almost maxed out with 20GB left. I have been considering adding a small capacity SSD to this build, at least to install the OS on so that it boots up faster. Everything else will still be on the HDD.
Then get one. You can get some really crappy 32-64gb patriot drive for cheap, which would still be a huge boost in performance, but if you can fit a nice drive like a 64gb samsung 830 or even better, then do it.
based on what i saw on the site, the antec neo eco for 2,200 is the best bet.
Gskills ripjaws or snipers 2x4 1600 cl9 1.5v. Both exact same ram, same price, just get one based on aesthetics
http://pcx.com.ph/components/memory/g-skill-ripjaws-8gb-1600-12800cl9d-2x4.html
http://pcx.com.ph/components/memory/g-skill-sniper-8gb-1600-12800cl9d-sr2-2x4.html
Also, you could get 2 of these:
http://pcx.com.ph/components/memory/corsair-4gb-ddr3-vs4gb1333d3.html
1333mhz CL9 though, so a lot slower. It would be cheaper by 300 pesos/$7. Eh, i'd get these if the aesthetics looked better for these than the other 2, the price difference isn't that much (well it is, but you are paying so much as it is already so relatively, the price difference is small).
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You can get some really crappy 32-64gb patriot drive for cheap, which would still be a huge boost in performance, but if you can fit a nice drive like a 64gb samsung 830 or even better, then do it.
Windows 7 only needs 20GB for a 64-bit installation, yes? If so, I think a 32GB SSD would be enough for me.
As for the RAM, I'll go with the Snipers. 1600 is a pretty big difference in performance for a relatively small jump in price.
Neo Eco 520w, got it.
So with all the changes so far, here's what the build looks like:
CPU: Intel Core i5-3470
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LX (ATX since you advised me to avoid mATX, and I can't seem to find an ATX H77 board on the site)
GPU: PowerColor Radeon HD7950
Memory: G. Skill Sniper 8GB DDR3-1600
HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB
SSD: Sandisk 32GB (http://pcx.com.ph/components/storage/solid-state-drive-ssd/sandisk-32gb-ssd.html)
PSU: Antec Neo Eco 520w
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
My windows is 27GB (though maybe bloated - been there for a while) and my "128GB" SSD is 128,033,222,656 bytes - aka 119.24GB as read by windows and as it is actually supposed to be calculated.
Gotta be really careful with a 32gb SSD i'd imagine - if they give you 32,000,000,000 bytes, you're talking 28.2GB - with my windows installation you're talking like 4% free space - assuming the rest of the drive is blank. I'm not sure if SSD's perform optimally when that full - they might do, but i think somebody mentioned that a few posts/pages ago or in another thread.
There's all the users folders etc, desktop stored on C: - You'd basically have to shift all of that to a hard drive and change the defaults so it did not touch your SSD if you went 32gb and windows was anywhere near that size, you just dont have buffer room, so you'd lose the benefit of SSD for desktop files, folders - and there's no chance in hell you could put any big games on it - I have to reccomend a 64gb drive here so you'd comfortably have 30+gb after windows, you can throw on sc2 and a couple of other games and leave your desktop and if you want users folders on your C: drive, which makes the benefits of an SSD much much more aparant. It's your choice though, and obviously more expensive - just wanted to make you aware of the dangers of advertising vs real world.
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On March 23 2013 20:36 Cyro wrote:
My windows is 27GB (though maybe bloated - been there for a while) and my "128GB" SSD is 128,033,222,656 bytes - aka 119.24GB as read by windows and as it is actually supposed to be calculated.
Gotta be really careful with a 32gb SSD i'd imagine - if they give you 32,000,000,000 bytes, you're talking 28.2GB - with my windows installation you're talking like 4% free space - assuming the rest of the drive is blank. I'm not sure if SSD's perform optimally when that full - they might do, but i think somebody mentioned that a few posts/pages ago or in another thread.
There's all the users folders etc, desktop stored on C: - You'd basically have to shift all of that to a hard drive and change the defaults so it did not touch your SSD if you went 32gb and windows was anywhere near that size, you just dont have buffer room, so you'd lose the benefit of SSD for desktop files, folders - and there's no chance in hell you could put any big games on it - I have to reccomend a 64gb drive here so you'd comfortably have 30+gb after windows, you can throw on sc2 and a couple of other games and leave your desktop and if you want users folders on your C: drive, which makes the benefits of an SSD much much more aparant. It's your choice though, and obviously more expensive - just wanted to make you aware of the dangers of advertising vs real world.
Good points. I hadn't considered placing SC2 onto the SSD. Alright, 64GB it is, then. Wouldn't mind spending a little more for a significant performance increase.
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For most SSDs, it's also advised to keep a lot of space free, something like 25 %. The SSD's controller uses that free space to do some kind of rearranging of data, which will keep the SSD's speed on the same level as it was when new. There's management software that comes with SSD's that actually wants to shrink partitions to create completely inaccessible non-partitioned empty space. Those 32 GB SSDs are pretty much only for use with something like Intel's HDD cache software. With 64 GB, you'll have enough for Windows and normal programs, but games can be pretty big. Even if you have to use the HDD a lot, having the programs on the SSD still changes much about how the PC feels. Program windows open instantly, you won't notice Windows running a backup in the background, stuff like that.
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My AsRock Z77 Pro3 recently failed (I think, I'm still troubleshooting; I still need to confirm my CPU works, which I'll check in another mobo as soon as I can). Static damage, I think. I was taking out my graphics card to oil a fan and dust the heatsink. When I put it back in I wasn't getting a signal to my monitor. Obviously I assumed my card was the problem, seeing as it was the only thing I had touched. After much troubleshooting, it seemed like the problem was my mainboard (I even took some bad advice online and removed the heatsink from my CPU and confirmed that it was working by feeling it heat up very fast and then quickly switching it off after 5 seconds - most likely harmless but stupid nonetheless). Then, during troubleshooting, I unscrewed the mobo so that it was unattached to the case. As I was connecting a HDMI cable, it moved across my case and died right before my eyes (before this all the fans etc would spin, only the monitor wouldn't display a signal).
So I am going to return it. I can attach a further order onto my RMA if I so wish, and seeing as this board is getting such a hard time on this thread, what would be you suggestions for a good quality budget board, with all the features (or at least the necessary ones) that I should purchase. I will be overclocking my 3570k on it, to 4.6 (and perhaps beyond this) with a Hyper 212 + (I managed 4.6 @ under 1.25v (offset of 0.1 or something, can't remember) which meant my temps were veeeery manageable, max of 85 after 20 runs of IBT @ max). I am only considering this because I will have to pay for the postage anyway (a flat 19 euro) and because I can offset the cost of spending more on another mobo as I can sell my returned board for near full price (as it'll be new).
BTW, the purchase site is hardwareversand.de.
Thanks!
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
You cant trust voltage readings on azrock z77 boards, it's likely the CPU needs more voltage than you think.
If you can do 4.6 under 1.25v you have a great CPU but chances are the board is supplying 1.28-1.33v under load while reporting 1.25 so dont be surprised if you get a non-asrock board and suddenly need to set more voltage for stability
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Best deals I can see are the MSI G45 for €80 and the Gigabyte D3H for €100. The latter is a somewhat better board but the cost difference makes it a tossup.
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On March 23 2013 23:42 Cyro wrote:
You cant trust voltage readings on azrock z77 boards, it's likely the CPU needs more voltage than you think.
If you can do 4.6 under 1.25v you have a great CPU but chances are the board is supplying 1.28-1.33v under load while reporting 1.25 so dont be surprised if you get a non-asrock board and suddenly need to set more voltage for stability
That what I've been reading here anyways...
What exactly is the difference between offset voltage and manual voltage? I like the fact the the CPU dynamically underclocks to 1.6ghz at a lower voltage during times of minimal usage (ie when not gaming) which is great for not having the CPU a higher voltages all the time. Am I right to think this is a good thing or what?
Any suggestions as to a more suitable board?
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EPT
