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ydg
United States690 Posts
On August 08 2009 08:54 KhaosKreator wrote: Randomized maps is a terrible idea. In every way, shape, and form. Why are random maps so bad? I love random maps on Age of Empires, random maps define the game, perhaps for the pro-scene, random maps may not be used, but for single player or casual gameplay, random maps are awesome. | ||
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parkin
1090 Posts
Just add some new maps every few months and there will be variety and the map pool will get bigger and better over time. | ||
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Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On August 08 2009 09:05 ydg wrote: Why are random maps so bad? I love random maps on Age of Empires, random maps define the game, perhaps for the pro-scene, random maps may not be used, but for single player or casual gameplay, random maps are awesome. I'm thinking random maps won't work for starcraft.Just think of it you get a main base and 1 or 2 nat expansion with every map. But with a random map generator you could have like 6 minerals and no gas in your main and then 1 mineral spread everywhere on the map, and your opponent could have like 4 minerals and 1 gas. In terms of terrain I don't really see it as too much of an advantage as you are not sure what to take advantage of in a map. Maybe for building turrets in the middle of maps is the only obvious thing. | ||
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jtype
England2167 Posts
Obviously their strict training regimen and match-pressure are no way near in the same league as the cruelty that was inflicted upon the child-geniuses in Ender's Game, but I'm sure if you've read the book you'll know what I mean. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
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ydg
United States690 Posts
On August 08 2009 09:18 Nemesis wrote: I'm thinking random maps won't work for starcraft.Just think of it you get a main base and 1 or 2 nat expansion with every map. But with a random map generator you could have like 6 minerals and no gas in your main and then 1 mineral spread everywhere on the map, and your opponent could have like 4 minerals and 1 gas. In terms of terrain I don't really see it as too much of an advantage as you are not sure what to take advantage of in a map. Maybe for building turrets in the middle of maps is the only obvious thing. Hm I guess. Maybe Starcraft isn't the type of game that would go well with a random map, because the 3 races are radically different. In Age of Empires though, the randomizer allotted resources to each person together, so it was like each person got x sheep, x gold mines, etc. | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
I think it would be pretty cool and the only imbalance would really be the players' ability to adapt, which is what we want to see! BRING ON THE RANDOMS | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On August 08 2009 09:00 D10 wrote: You understand technology as much as I understand why human beings post stupid shit they have no idea of.Not every good idea is feasible for implementation. Sorry lad, it will never be done with this level of technology. If you think random maps in Starcraft need to be any different from simply having players play on a different human made map they never played before on every game. Then you have no idea what procedural content is. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
If you think Its only because of our technology hasant reached that level yet you are deply wrong, and didnt understand my point at all. All I meant to say is its not possible to make it in a way that will work without being completely cumbersome/having tons of misgivings Blizzard knows it wouldnt becost effective in the effect it will provide compared to all investiment it will take take to make one that doesnt suck ass, and the end result is so intangible compared to just having good balanced maps that it doesnt make sense. You cant simulate weeks of testing and tweeking like we have right now with pro bw maps into a program, if we had a mind blowingly better AI technollogy capable of thinking like a human and running simulations of all kinds of abusive (and would would have to program what are abusive parameters) situations on one map, then I would say that there is nothing stopping us from doing it, but we dont, and therefore doesnt deliver | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
IMO, this how a random map will boil down to in competitive play: Either cheese, or open with a safe build (2 rax, 2 gate, 9 pool). Obviously this will end up favoring zerg a bit. Go for the standard build path that is safe, scout and adapt accordingly, and abuse terrain if luck is on your side. Not too much different from normal games, it'll just be a lot sloppier and we won't see any super-refined build orders prepared for the match. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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jtype
England2167 Posts
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On August 08 2009 10:42 D10 wrote: No. Every single day I get dozens of newbies asking me stuff they would take less time googling then typing a question. I just wasted my whole fucking work day with an idiot who didn't read the Docs and told me my program had a bug when it was doing exactly what the Docs said. YOU are the same type of person, who could have searched how procedural content is generated in less that time that it took you to write your crappy posts in these threads. I'm fed up with lazy bums like you. So look it up yourself.Then you care to explain where im wrong sire ? | ||
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crate
United States2474 Posts
I'm thinking random maps won't work for starcraft.Just think of it you get a main base and 1 or 2 nat expansion with every map. But with a random map generator you could have like 6 minerals and no gas in your main and then 1 mineral spread everywhere on the map, and your opponent could have like 4 minerals and 1 gas. Not if you make the random generator (gasp) not do stuff like that! I played AoE2; note that random maps there always give you 4+2+2 sheep and a couple trees near your town hall and some gold/stone fairly close and some bushes and.... Or go look at the good random map scripts for Heroes of Might and Magic 3--those generate fairly balanced maps since they place stuff by "zones," and starting zones have the same sort of stuff. I'm not saying that maps in those games are the same as maps in Starcraft, but the ability to random maps with the same amount of resources per player is definitely out there. I don't see anything wrong with adding the option to play on random maps to the game. It will never become the standard, but I'd be surprised if a good random map generator wouldn't lead to a decent amount of play. | ||
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djdolber
Sweden85 Posts
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diehilde
Germany1596 Posts
On August 08 2009 10:59 VIB wrote: No. Every single day I get dozens of newbies asking me stuff they would take less time googling then typing a question. I just wasted my whole fucking work day with an idiot who didn't read the Docs and told me my program had a bug when it was doing exactly what the Docs said. YOU are the same type of person, who could have searched how procedural content is generated in less that time that it took you to write your crappy posts in these threads. I'm fed up with lazy bums like you. So look it up yourself. you do understand the sense of a forum dont you? as a pm this post probably would have made a lil sense, but not as a forum post. You do realize that more people than D10 are reading your posts? Even if he looks anything up, what about all the others interested? Yep, these lazy bums can look it up too! Cus hey, the combined time of 20 people looking shit up on the internet sure isnt worth a damn compared to your 10 mins to explain it for all of them.... You fail at grasping the concept of a constructive forum. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
On August 08 2009 11:42 djdolber wrote: You're smart, I like you.it all depends on how advanced they would build it There is technically no reason why a randomly generated map would be ANY different from a human made map. The code that generates the map was made by a human after all. Random maps doesn't need to be any different from playing on a different human made map that you don't know on each game. From Blizzard's point of view it's simply a matter of managing human resources. Buildings a robust content generator = more resources in software engineers but less resources in level designers and artists. While building many static maps instead would be spending resources in the opposite. The game developing industry is slowly moving towards more and more procedural content every year. But Blizzard is a "complacent giant" like any other big monopoly. So don't expect them to be too innovative with this. | ||
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Suc
Australia1569 Posts
I would be all for the second option, random map choosing, but against the first, the randomly generated maps, they would be retarded and deeply affect balance. | ||
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