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On July 02 2008 23:48 maybenexttime wrote:
Hmm, this just struck me: if there's gonna be an equivalent of 3 Hatch Muta (or any other Muta opening), then Mutant Larvas may prove to be VERY useful as a means of not only saving Larvas and continuing the Drone production, but also making the opponent unaware of what you're actually opting for (additional Hydra tech as in BW for confusion purposes). ;]
i tried a 3 hat muta build once and it kinda sucked, the 400 gas spire (or w/e it was) slows it down a bunch. unless they clean up the muta micro mechanic and mess with the economics a bit i dont think it will be viable.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 01:45 iounas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2008 23:59 Nyovne wrote:
Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech.
If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters
You are aware that it requires a larvae to make a mutated larvae plus the mutation time takes a whole 30 seconds and as such it doesn't help at all.
Any time you make mutant larvae they arent mutating into something else. For every mutated larvae you have something is not doing something what it could and its just taking up supply. Let alone the fact that the queen cannot be at every hatchery all the time and even Deep Tunnel doesn't allow her to do that effectively.
Roughly put (movability etc aside) mutated larvae save nothing but morphing time later in the game in exchange for additional cash and a wasted larvae early on. You're still paying for your units afterall.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 02:00 MrRammstein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 01:45 iounas wrote:On July 02 2008 23:59 Nyovne wrote:
Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech.
If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters or (without any danger) at least Overlords to speed up macro...?
Why if you can spawn an overlord normally in 15 seconds why do it in 30 sec mutate time + 2 sec spawning :O.
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On July 03 2008 02:11 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 01:18 MrRammstein wrote:
but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO.
In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... Why that, buildings just take less damage. Protoss buildings just have shields as part of their toughness. Shields have always taken full damage from any sources, the reason why vultures are so effective vs them in SCBW. The fact that baneling splash hits every protoss shield for full damage in its radius has no reason to be an exception to the rule.
Yea but I read shields are supposed to be mirrors of armor type whatever they surround - Light just as Zealots are light armored, and Armored as any buildings or some Stalkers, with all bonuses included...?
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On July 03 2008 02:19 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 02:00 MrRammstein wrote:On July 03 2008 01:45 iounas wrote:On July 02 2008 23:59 Nyovne wrote:
Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech.
If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters or (without any danger) at least Overlords to speed up macro...? Why if you can spawn an overlord normally in 15 seconds why do it in 30 sec mutate time + 2 sec spawning plus the added mineral and gas cost for the mutation :o.
Well if that takes 15seconds now my comment never happened :D I meant morphing Larvae before Ovie is needed and let it wait until there is need for Ovies to morph them in 2seconds but if this is so short than nvm x)
Btw what happens with supply when Morphalisk is morphed? Does unit morphed take 1 more supply?
And about Queen how long is cooldown on Deep Tunel? Does it require any/much energy?
edit: about Overseers' range of sight:
It slowly spreads when Overseer is one place but what happens when it moves? Does it quickly shrinks or just just disappears?
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Yea those screenshots, they are the screenshots as they we're given out by Blizzard to the press. There's a couple of other pics of most terran/zerg units and buildings. Anyone interested in that?
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On July 03 2008 02:19 Nyovne wrote:
Why if you can spawn an overlord normally in 15 seconds why do it in 30 sec mutate time + 2 sec spawning plus the added mineral and gas cost for the mutation :o.
I did not notice the extra cost for mutating from mutated larvae. How much is it approximately? Spawning a mutated larvae is for free though, or like 1 energy or something similar. As far as I recall I could build a zergling form a mutated larvae for the same cost as a normal larvae.
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has anyone really used antigrav much? Is it as effective as cyclone was in wc3?
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On July 03 2008 03:00 prayanavita wrote:Yea those screenshots, they are the screenshots as they we're given out by Blizzard to the press. There's a couple of other pics of most terran/zerg units and buildings. Anyone interested in that?
Give us whatever you have > and Thank You in advance of course 
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 02:29 MrRammstein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 02:11 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 01:18 MrRammstein wrote:
but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO.
In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... Why that, buildings just take less damage. Protoss buildings just have shields as part of their toughness. Shields have always taken full damage from any sources, the reason why vultures are so effective vs them in SCBW. The fact that baneling splash hits every protoss shield for full damage in its radius has no reason to be an exception to the rule. Yea but I read shields are supposed to be mirrors of armor type whatever they surround - Light just as Zealots are light armored, and Armored as any buildings or some Stalkers, with all bonuses included...?
Where did you read that? Cause shields went down pretty damn fast for my feel, at least faster then the hp itself. But obviously since I didnt really check that might just be my expectations from SCBW warping what im perceiving so if you got a source plz shoot ;o.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 02:33 MrRammstein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 02:19 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 02:00 MrRammstein wrote:On July 03 2008 01:45 iounas wrote:On July 02 2008 23:59 Nyovne wrote:
Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech.
If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters or (without any danger) at least Overlords to speed up macro...? Why if you can spawn an overlord normally in 15 seconds why do it in 30 sec mutate time + 2 sec spawning plus the added mineral and gas cost for the mutation :o. Well if that takes 15seconds now my comment never happened :D I meant morphing Larvae before Ovie is needed and let it wait until there is need for Ovies to morph them in 2seconds but if this is so short than nvm x) Btw what happens with supply when Morphalisk is morphed? Does unit morphed take 1 more supply? And about Queen how long is cooldown on Deep Tunel? Does it require any/much energy? edit: about Overseers' range of sight: It slowly spreads when Overseer is one place but what happens when it moves? Does it quickly shrinks or just just disappears?
When Mutated larvae morph they just add supply to their own to match the unit they change in. Nothing special going on there as can be expected.
Deep Tunnel has a 15 second cooldown. It does not cost energy.
The overseers range just reverts back to normal, aka smaller. But it kinda doubles when it hangs still for 30 sec orso.
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On July 03 2008 03:29 MrRammstein wrote:Give us whatever you have > and Thank You in advance of course
Here you go, I put it up on Rapidshare. 50 mb worth of high res screenshots, pictures of most terran/zerg units/buildings and the Starcraft II logo at high resolution.
http://rapidshare.com/files/126622535/StarCraft_II.7z.html
Have fun with it.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 03:06 prayanavita wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 02:19 Nyovne wrote:
Why if you can spawn an overlord normally in 15 seconds why do it in 30 sec mutate time + 2 sec spawning plus the added mineral and gas cost for the mutation :o. I did not notice the extra cost for mutating from mutated larvae. How much is it approximately? Spawning a mutated larvae is for free though, or like 1 energy or something similar. As far as I recall I could build a zergling form a mutated larvae for the same cost as a normal larvae.
edit: all sources indeed agree with you that it costs nothing but token energy and increased time (30 seconds).
I have no idea how I came on the idea then that it requires mins / gas to morph one.
My bad, terribly mistaken on this matter even though I could have sworn it.
Well then I feel the ability shouldn't have a cooldown and just cost minerals/gas and not take up supply ^^.
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 03:07 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
has anyone really used antigrav much? Is it as effective as cyclone was in wc3?
Haven't used it at all sadly, just forcefields from nullifiers. Hope someone else can elaborate on this for you, maybe Idra.
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On July 03 2008 04:18 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 03:07 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
has anyone really used antigrav much? Is it as effective as cyclone was in wc3? Haven't used it at all sadly, just forcefields from nullifiers. Hope someone else can elaborate on this for you, maybe Idra.
Hehe guess you had too much fun playing with zerg as well -_-
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Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 04:27 prayanavita wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 04:18 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 03:07 Ra.Xor.2 wrote:
has anyone really used antigrav much? Is it as effective as cyclone was in wc3? Haven't used it at all sadly, just forcefields from nullifiers. Hope someone else can elaborate on this for you, maybe Idra. Hehe guess you had too much fun playing with zerg as well -_-
Haha damn right I did :D.
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On July 03 2008 04:07 Nyovne wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 02:29 MrRammstein wrote:On July 03 2008 02:11 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 01:18 MrRammstein wrote:
but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO.
In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... Why that, buildings just take less damage. Protoss buildings just have shields as part of their toughness. Shields have always taken full damage from any sources, the reason why vultures are so effective vs them in SCBW. The fact that baneling splash hits every protoss shield for full damage in its radius has no reason to be an exception to the rule. Yea but I read shields are supposed to be mirrors of armor type whatever they surround - Light just as Zealots are light armored, and Armored as any buildings or some Stalkers, with all bonuses included...? Where did you read that? Cause shields went down pretty damn fast for my feel, at least faster then the hp itself. But obviously since I didnt really check that might just be my expectations from SCBW warping what im perceiving so if you got a source plz shoot ;o.
I think it was Q&A batch but not sure. I'm going to dig in earlier ones anyways so as soon as I will find I will post it
Thank you Prayanavita downloading now
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On July 03 2008 05:27 MrRammstein wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2008 04:07 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 02:29 MrRammstein wrote:On July 03 2008 02:11 Nyovne wrote:On July 03 2008 01:18 MrRammstein wrote:
but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO.
In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... Why that, buildings just take less damage. Protoss buildings just have shields as part of their toughness. Shields have always taken full damage from any sources, the reason why vultures are so effective vs them in SCBW. The fact that baneling splash hits every protoss shield for full damage in its radius has no reason to be an exception to the rule. Yea but I read shields are supposed to be mirrors of armor type whatever they surround - Light just as Zealots are light armored, and Armored as any buildings or some Stalkers, with all bonuses included...? Where did you read that? Cause shields went down pretty damn fast for my feel, at least faster then the hp itself. But obviously since I didnt really check that might just be my expectations from SCBW warping what im perceiving so if you got a source plz shoot ;o. I think it was Q&A batch but not sure. I'm going to dig in earlier ones anyways so as soon as I will find I will post it Thank you Prayanavita downloading now
No problem, enjoy!
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Thanks for all this info, Nyovne (and Naruto/Idra)!!!
Anyways, Nyovne, since you seem to find the Corrupter very displeasing - would you think it a good idea if Corrupter's gave some sort of spore like the devourers do? So every time a corrupter hits a unit, it gains a spore, so when it dies the amount of time it is corrupted is directly correlated to the number of spores it had? I remember you were unhappy that the corrupters had to have the killing blow in order to corrupt for a mere 10 seconds (or more with the upgrade) iirc. Although it wouldn't really solve the problem of stopping drops or being able to harrass - it would make them a much stronger support unit.
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wait corrupters having to have the killing blow makes perfect sense, hell yeah more micro opportunity to deny your BCs or whatever
corrupters look as though they deal a lot of damage anyways
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EPT
