EPT[V] Starcraft 2 WWI VOD - Page 16
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maybenexttime
Poland5731 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On July 02 2008 23:19 Nyovne wrote: No, the new pathing plus automining means that especially for scrubs, but even for progamers that you will probably even have more minerals comming in, especially early on then you do now with a 8 mineral return. I mean when a mineral field is saturated with workers, 8 obviously gives a faster return but till then I think the 5 mins with the new pathing is at least a match for it. Maybe not when you number crunch it but it *felt* good and about the same. There most certainly was no shortage of massing large numbers of units and seeing large scale battles like in SCBW in the good games I played that went to midgame with us both having 2 or more bases. Talking about resources I'm going to suck more info from you  ...namely upgrades sorry for going for such details x)Were costs on Stimpacks, Infrantry Weapons and Armor, Zerg units' upgrades / etc around the same as in BW? Do you remember Combat Shield, Blink, Charge, morphing Spire to Greater Spire? Did Hydras still have speed, range and Ultras speed, armor upgrades? etc etc btw can you tell how big is Ultras' AoE? | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5731 Posts
unit stats | ||
Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 02 2008 20:45 Aerox wrote: Psi-Storm. It wasn't as awesome visually last I saw (in those released screenshots). How is it now? How about the sound effects for it? How about the damage? It's area of affect is smaller then in SCBW and last I heard about it (so not sure at all) it had a little reduction to total damage as well (which I think might be one damage tick less since I thought it lasted a bit shorter but thats just a gutfeel). It looks like a little cloud of white crackling lightning so it's very identifiable as being psistorm hehe. I think it had a different sound effect as in SCBW, a bit more static and buzzing going on but again I'm not sure. I used Psistorm myself in about... 2 games and saw it used against me in 2 games as well. There is damage instantly on the spell taking effect and the damage felt like it came alot quicker then it did in SCBW. It kinda hit my drones while I was trying to move them around when some guy stormdropped me but even with the new pathing and smoothe controlling the second it hit my drones they all turned red in my unitgroupscreen so it really came instantly and seemed nasty. On my zerglings and banelings as well in some centre skirmishes we had. Did it feel weak? Which is offcourse the whole motivation behind your question, and from my limited experience the answer is: definately not. Especially with the new smart casting system you can queue and stormblanket infinately easier then in SCBW so the adjustments to PsiStorm were more then justified from my perspective. That plus with the new pathing/unitclutter which is infinately improved units bunch of *alot* more so you still hit alot of units if not as many as before with that same storm. (Except for large units like siege tanks which are hard to hit more then one with a storm I guess, but vs Tier 1 units, or small units it still rapes) | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 02 2008 23:48 maybenexttime wrote: Hmm, this just struck me: if there's gonna be an equivalent of 3 Hatch Muta (or any other Muta opening), then Mutant Larvas may prove to be VERY useful as a means of not only saving Larvas and continuing the Drone production, but also making the opponent unaware of what you're actually opting for (additional Hydra tech as in BW for confusion purposes). ;] No, mutas suck in any form or way in the SC2 build we played are were totally reduntant in any practical form of play. Mutant larvae are another awsome idea but them taking in supply and that there is a cooldown on the mutate larvae while there is already a spawnlarvae time at zerg construction buildings seems wrong to me as well. Especially because you are not getting an extra larvae, you just change an existing one. It doesn't create extra production capacity for you and for this benefit you are already paying additional gas and minerals. Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech. And just as important, a reason to actually get that Queen every game. Maybe not early game, but at least that it has a function in every game, which at the moment it didn't have for me. Applying these 2 changes to mutate larvae which I just suggest would have me create one every single game cause it's just a crazy cool mechanic with obvious benefits. Any mechanic worth integrating or basing strats around while taking control and resource management let alone should figure heavily into your larvae managemanent which is the quintessantial centre of any zerg players play gets my heartfelt support and has me cheer for it as loud as I can. *IF* it works and is actually usable, so you've got your work cut out for you blizz. Don't feel shy to contact me at any time for suggestions! Haha >  | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
ooo stary Thank You! dziekowac! edit2: lol nvm wrong read this thing and realized at Archons being 350/10 >< | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 02 2008 23:49 MrRammstein wrote: Talking about resources I'm going to suck more info from you ...namely upgrades sorry for going for such details x)Were costs on Stimpacks, Infrantry Weapons and Armor, Zerg units' upgrades / etc around the same as in BW? Do you remember Combat Shield, Blink, Charge, morphing Spire to Greater Spire? Did Hydras still have speed, range and Ultras speed, armor upgrades? etc etc btw can you tell how big is Ultras' AoE? Im not gonna sum up every upgrade for you but Ill just name a few to give an impression, a) unit attack and armor upgrades are identical to those in SCBW. b) combat shield is 250/250, stim is 100/100 still, charge and blink im not sure but 150/150-200/200 im pretty sure. A spire costs 200/300 which is too expensive since it only unlocks the mutalisk and should be brought back to 150/150 in its current state or at least reduced back to its old cost of 200/200 and seeing scourge put back at lair level and corruptors being enabled by spiretech and functioning as a support unit or even a caster if theyd get a use ability or two. Hydras like marines and stalkers do not have a range upgrade, they come with the range they have after upgrading in SCBW allthough stalkers range seems definately shorter then graded goons in SCBW. Ultras just have armor grade, no speed, and subsequently they are pretty much slow lumbering tanks. I cannot tell how big the ultras aoe is but at least as bit as the unit's front which is quite substantial considering they are HUGE ass mofos. I just don't know how "deep" the aoe goes on the frontal axis, I just have a feeling about how "wide" the effect is. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5731 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:14 maybenexttime wrote: I was talking about the final game (where mutas are useful), assuming mutant larva stays, which I hope it does. Yeah then it might, but it's hard (and stupid) atm to actually try to get as many mutated larvae as you can and even though the mechanic is really cool it definately needs some work to be actually usable. Atm I can just see them usefull to save some up to hatch some ultras to save time . Or if they are able to mutate into even evolved forms like guardians or lurkers. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:01 MrRammstein wrote: ooo stary Thank You! dziekowac! edit2: lol nvm wrong read this thing and realized at Archons being 350/10 >< If thats so, that list is probably wrong and outdated. I am 90% sure Archons were 300 shield, 20 hp in the build we played. | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:18 Nyovne wrote: If thats so, that list is probably wrong and outdated. I am 90% sure Archons were 300 shield, 20 hp in the build we played. kkk Can you recall if units' costs are good there? | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:20 MrRammstein wrote: kkk Can you recall if units' costs are good there? Dunno not gonna check them all, if they are different I'm pretty sure it won't be that far off and they're 100% sure to change before the game comes as, as are small hp modifacations so I cant really be arsed to check them as its quite trivial. | ||
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ChaoSbringer
Australia1382 Posts
On July 01 2008 05:01 Nyovne wrote: p.s. Tall grass and destroyable terrain (as neutral buildings are right now), but especially the tall grass are really really cool. The gras just makes for PERFECT ambush places :D. I know this was said ages ago; but I think this comic expresses the situation. http://www.vgcats.com/super/?strip_id=6 | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:57 IdrA wrote: ya archons are no longer worth making the way you did in sc1 pvz, morphing templars before even casting storms just to get them. Yeah especially cause they take full dmg from banelings and are up front t_t. You just takem down with the zealots in one go. | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 00:53 ChaoSbringer wrote: I know this was said ages ago; but I think this comic expresses the situation. http://www.vgcats.com/super/?strip_id=6 Haha indeed . There's an ultra in the gras! | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
Dunno not gonna check them all, if they are different I'm pretty sure it won't be that far off and they're 100% sure to change before the game comes as, as are small hp modifacations so I cant really be arsed to check them as its quite trivial. NP man I know... even though any bit of info matters > On July 03 2008 01:08 Nyovne wrote: Yeah especially cause they take full dmg from banelings and are up front t_t. You just takem down with the zealots in one go. Guess this is an example how much Blizzard doesn't won't to implement any exceptions like anti-graving bigger units for smaller amount of time xP but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO. In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... | ||
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iounas
409 Posts
On July 02 2008 23:59 Nyovne wrote: Mutate larvae's cooldown and that mutated larvae take up supply both need to go, asap, in my opinion to work this concept out well. It at least work make it infinately more workable, practical and actually usable in a game as a viable tech. If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On July 03 2008 01:45 iounas wrote: If there was no cooldown and it didnt took suply then zerg would make tons of this mutant larvas at bases and could instantly respond to any situation with instant units perfectly suited to defend. And in early game if their scouting is denied they could just make this mutants and instanlty respond later.. I think the purpose of this larvas to have few of them to respond faster if you need some units immediately, like if enemy comes with banshees in your base and you quickly morph them to corrupters or (without any danger) at least Overlords to speed up macro...? | ||
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Nyovne
Netherlands19137 Posts
On July 03 2008 01:18 MrRammstein wrote: but if Banelings can hit Protoss shields and can't Terran buildings than something is wrong IMO. In situation with hard time to get more expansions they will be pain in the ass for P... Why that, buildings just take less damage. Protoss buildings just have shields as part of their toughness. Shields have always taken full damage from any sources, the reason why vultures are so effective vs them in SCBW. The fact that baneling splash hits every protoss shield for full damage in its radius has no reason to be an exception to the rule. | ||
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