EPTJust wondering how to game would change...
[T] what could replace macro with MBS? - Page 15
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
Just wondering how to game would change... | ||
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
God no. | ||
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VIB
Brazil3567 Posts
So, for example, you have big macro maps could have a 250 food limit. While small short game maps would have 200 food limit? It would be another tool for map makers to control the flow and balance of their maps. So if Kespa decides mbs is making the pro games boring and slow, they could just start putting heavy macro maps on the tournament pools. These maps would have like big size, lots of expansions, lot of yellow minerals and 250 food limit. If they decide it's too complicated to understand having different food cap on different maps, they could just have the same for all maps, but they'll decide what the cap is. It's just one more tool to help Kespa customize how the pro-games look and feel. More macro, more multi-tasking, no (additional) artificial blocks and balanceable by the community. | ||
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Swailoc
United States11 Posts
On July 09 2008 04:58 VIB wrote: If you don't spend any time adding extra thinking before you post, you'll just look dumb and not contribute to the thread. Please stop wasting our bandwidth and time. I've read enough of your posts to realise that you have no idea how this game works. Doesn't matter how much time and thought you put into your posts because you're a bgh noob | ||
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Swailoc
United States11 Posts
On July 09 2008 06:25 VIB wrote: Even better, what if food cap were modifiable per map, so official melee maps could have different food caps. So, for example, you have big macro maps could have a 250 food limit. While small short game maps would have 200 food limit? It would be another tool for map makers to control the flow and balance of their maps. So if Kespa decides mbs is making the pro games boring and slow, they could just start putting heavy macro maps on the tournament pools. These maps would have like big size, lots of expansions, lot of yellow minerals and 250 food limit. If they decide it's too complicated to understand having different food cap on different maps, they could just have the same for all maps, but they'll decide what the cap is. It's just one more tool to help Kespa customize how the pro-games look and feel. More macro, more multi-tasking, no (additional) artificial blocks and balanceable by the community. Rofl you think if kespa made pros work harder to win games it would make it better? How does this make ANY sense at all, please think. Everyone will still be playing with mbs smartcast and all the noob things blizzard did to remove gameplay so noobs can have an easier time winning, if ONLY the pros have to play in tougher conditions that only makes it harder for them and no one else. the effect on the observers is absolutely none. If 2 players on the ladder can make a better game and play on the same skill level with the noob features there's just no point in proleague. If a change is made to the interface it has to be done by blizzard otherwise it won't work :edit oh sorry you meant actually adding bigger maps to make it harder to macro? That doesn't work at all it's still easy to macro. Go play wc3 and see how easy it is to macro with mbs. Bigger maps do nothing. | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
On July 09 2008 07:06 Swailoc wrote: Rofl you think if kespa made pros work harder to win games it would make it better? How does this make ANY sense at all, please think. Everyone will still be playing with mbs smartcast and all the noob things blizzard did to remove gameplay so noobs can have an easier time winning, if ONLY the pros have to play in tougher conditions that only makes it harder for them and no one else. the effect on the observers is absolutely none. If 2 players on the ladder can make a better game and play on the same skill level with the noob features there's just no point in proleague. If a change is made to the interface it has to be done by blizzard otherwise it won't work :edit oh sorry you meant actually adding bigger maps to make it harder to macro? That doesn't work at all it's still easy to macro. Go play wc3 and see how easy it is to macro with mbs. Bigger maps do nothing. Are you saying playing SC on different maps doesn't affect balance at all? + how that and SBS doesn't make pros work harder already? Where did he say it would affect pros only? What's more how smartcasting is better than for example Size Storms that will be affected by this the most? | ||
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Swailoc
United States11 Posts
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Ozarugold
2716 Posts
On July 09 2008 05:24 Showtime! wrote: Then why post it? God no. ?? Um...assuming that the post was directed towards me, then to answer your question... I was just wondering how the game would be affected. You know, to see why MBS or SBS is preferred, to see the pros and cons between each one and find a way to bridge them together. Sometimes I post so people of higher creativity can leech off my idea and create something that both hardcore and casual gamers can agree upon. Also to cover all the bases, you know, leave no stone unturned and whatnot. I mean, there's nothing wrong with thinking of a new idea, and it's also true that there's nothing wrong with shooting one down, but being the anal person that I am, I kind of like to know why my ideas wont work. Of course, no one is obligated answer my ideas, but you know how people act, they like to be awknowledged and whatnot... | ||
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Showtime!
Canada2938 Posts
No problem man. After thinking about what you said, I can see where you're coming from. Interface features such as that shouldn't be 'unlockable' ingame with higher tech and you shouldn't have to research it. It becomes just another gimmick. Both sides would create an uproar over it. It's a lot similar to the rax addon. I don't know. I think it would create an uproar with both philosophies. I'll expand upon your idea though: It's a lot like upkeep in WCIII, but reversed in a way. As soon as a player meets certain conditions like 75-100 supply and tier 3.. you should be able to research MBS for your production facilities to make macro easier so you can focus your hotkeys on your units? Limiting unit selection to smaller groups should stay consistent though. Is that hardcore and casual enough for you? Still sounds like a gimmick to me. I like the idea of increasing the supply though because players do tend to max out quickly and I think some players are more than capable of handling a few more units to push the action more. I don't think that abolishes the SBS vs. MBS issue completely though. I was just wondering how the game would be affected. You know, to see why MBS or SBS is preferred, to see the pros and cons between each one and find a way to bridge them together. If you want more info *gulp*, search all the MBS versus Anti-MBS threads. There are many of them and it goes on for pages and pages and pages. It's a real shit fest. Tread carefully. | ||
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MrRammstein
Poland339 Posts
So here is walking corpses mod idea ;P Basically all corpses / wreckages of dead ground units or parts of dead air units could be harvested. Wreckages would be normally 'hidden' but by enabling option to see them somewhere in game, revealed and able to be harvested. Zerg Queen's Transfusion would have different effect on the corpses: it wouldn't heal them but by spending 'nominal' amount of energy bring them to life - corpses would move with 50% of alive units' speed and by default start moving to nearest Hatch to be devoured ;P or stay in place where they died and be ordered by the same button as workers that grabbed mined minerals / gas are ordered to go back to CC/etc (hotkey C). Protoss Probes would 'invest' small amount of minerals to open smaller warp rift and put scattered parts together and make them move with 50% speed of normal units; rest would go as for Zerg above. Terran SCVs would pack wreckages up and move them to CC in kind of fork lift manner. | ||
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-gameplay&t=12496&p=1&#post12496 I don't think geysers not working when depleted is good one but others are worth to think about imo. | ||
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inlagdsil
Canada957 Posts
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beetlelisk
Poland2276 Posts
In other words it's not typical disputing, ranting about it, asking when the fuck will they revert MBS to SBS as if Karune would pop out of nowhere and say YES, YOU'VE DONE IT, YOU WERE RIGHT; it's brainstorming what can be added to the game in place of SBS because so far they struggle not to remove MBS and with ideas like tab-click-tab-click they roll down to hell. Few days ago new "Vespene Laughs" sticky was added http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=sc2-general&t=1746124&p=1&#post1746124 Even tho title seems to be sarcastic, it shows that Blizz wants ideas in any form so why not to come up with any? Gas mechanic is one of steps to help fix the situation, maybe there are other in above posts? | ||
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Prose
Canada314 Posts
Scaled MBS Firstly, it's important to address the problem. With multiple building selection, the macro (time/attention) cost is basically zero; building 40 goons takes the same time/attention as building 1 goon! This skewers everything majorly. Scaled MBS solves that problem. Making 40 goons costs more 'macro' over making 1. * You can still do classic SC macro: clicking on each building then pressing hotkey of unit; 5z6z7z8d9d, etc. * You can interrupt the auto-massing anytime (ie. by clicking another hotkey, etc.). If you interrupt by moving screen elsewhere, the gates remain selected, and thus you can queue up, but now only manually. * The 'cycle' duration can be adjusted, tested out. * Imagine yourself in an actual game using the methods here, particularly that you'd click back to the battlefield right after the massing. | ||
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petzergling
538 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On June 25 2008 00:09 Luddite wrote: To be honest, I doubt that their developers understand BW enough to know why it's bad. I lol'd. Luddite, do you really believe this? They can change the minerals per trip to compensate for improved pathing but they can't understand the effect going back to the base has on gameplay? It is one thing to disagree with the developers on a fundamental design dicision. It is another to claim they have no grasp of their own game. Don't be insulting. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5770 Posts
You have to be a competent player to actually realize how important time/attention management is in BW. They don't have the necessary speed not experience. Take their balance designer, Matt Cooper, he looked like a D-, clueless in terms of pretty much anything (from scouting, though micro, to overall game plan). Do you really think someone on his level would actually get into such details as micro vs. macro in terms of attention paid, having barely any grasp of micro and macro? That's wishful thinking, imo. If they really did realize what the issue is, they would've come up with a replacement MUCH earlier. They didn't design their crappy gas mechanic until the competitive community bashed them. ;; | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On January 05 2009 23:13 maybenexttime wrote: I'd say it's a fair assumption. You have to be a competent player to actually realize how important time/attention management is in BW. They don't have the necessary speed not experience. Take their balance designer, Matt Cooper, he looked like a D-, clueless in terms of pretty much anything (from scouting, though micro, to overall game plan). Do you really think someone on his level would actually get into such details as micro vs. macro in terms of attention paid, having barely any grasp of micro and macro? That's wishful thinking, imo. If they really did realize what the issue is, they would've come up with a replacement MUCH earlier. They didn't design their crappy gas mechanic until the competitive community bashed them. ;; You are making an awful lot of presumptions about comprehension vs. execution, the internal development teams skill level, their basic understanding of action RTS gameplay and their intentions for gas and other macro mechanics. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5770 Posts
And not knowing that you're supposed to scout A POSSIBLE ISLAND EXPO or knowing that you're supposed to use basic abilities like Blink is what is aweful, imo. | ||
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