EPTSC2 5.0.15 PTR Patch Notes + Sept 22nd update - Page 14
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Intelligence13
Canada19 Posts
| ||
|
CicadaSC
United States1916 Posts
On September 24 2025 06:18 WombaT wrote: It’s definitely a buff to Disruptors, I think the storm change remains to be seeen. Or it’s a buff in some scenarios and a nerf in others The biggest buff imo is the size of the storm. The damage can be argued it is a "change" and not a buff, but the size I think tilts it to be overall a buff to storm. | ||
|
xPrimuSx
95 Posts
On September 24 2025 00:00 WombaT wrote: Why is using F2 so frowned upon anyway? If you’re using it all the time, you’re pulling all sorts of units that aren’t observers out of position too, which is generally bad anyway. There are times when it’s the best option, such as ‘uh oh a push I didn’t see and set up for has arrived, I need to pull all my army’. In which scenario, you ended up pulling all your observers too, and locking them in place was an OK solution IMO. For all its flaws I think Stormgate did a pretty damn good job with control groups, and letting you customise how they worked or the equivalent of an all army hotkey in that game. But yeah as a tradeoff, I like this! If one needs a tradeoff. The tradeoff should be a nerf though, if required. Maybe you could drop the vision range by 1, as an alternative. It shouldn’t be a situational buff, accompanied with a gigantic nerf that makes it useless to use the ability in other scenarios. Speaking of the buff component, and it being situational, isn’t it going to be really annoying in those specific situations? Surveillance mode obs in dead spaces, well they’re going to cover things like drop avenues a good bit better, with less effort in terms of placement. Surveillance mode obs are also going to give deathballs more vision range, and be less exposed as they can sit further back. Aside from anything else, why does the observer keep getting these bloomin weird nerfs anyway? And I mean weird because I frequent many an SC space, and there’s a lot of balance whine about all sorts. Some don’t like observers being invisible and doing their thing. Then someone counters with ‘lategame Terran has infinite scans’ or ‘a good Zerg can see half the map with creep’. Standard stuff! Rarely did I see ‘observers are slightly too fast’ or ‘observer’s model is too small’ or ‘observers are OP in surveillance mode in conjunction with F2’ The sequence of changes, they’re by no means outrageous, but where are they coming from? They really smack of the frustrations of like, a singular pro player, almost certainly a Terran. Especially given one of the stated reasons for the speed change was that it was ‘frustrating’ that an obs could escape after a scan. Which I mean, if the Toss player is paying sufficient attention to do that, isn’t that a good thing? I actually don't mind Observers being "visible" in surveillance mode but they should still require detection to kill as otherwise they just become too vulnerable. I also don't get the F2 hate directed at the Obs as Protoss also suffers from leaving a hole in their defense when using F2 since you are usually leaving a hold position unit in your wall. That risk stays regardless of any Obs change and run bys are a risk for most of the game. My alternative suggestion is to leave surveillance mode as currently implemented in the live game, or potentially even remove the sight range buff, and add a radar range. Obs is now "visible" without actually being visible and gives ample warning to the opponent of your army being scouted or not. | ||
|
bela.mervado
Hungary408 Posts
* obs I don't think it's about F2, I simply do not like the idea of an army being watched or even detected unknowingly. Overseer, scan, raven, even the changeling is visible. I love to watch high level P games, the way competent P bros get vision around their bases. Parking sieged observers near bases in dead air space seems a bit silly and too punishing for the opponent (T doing drops). Alternatively, I could imagine observers being invisible while moving only (patrolling as well). Targetable without detection while stopped, on hold position, or sieged. Could be slightly cheaper at 25/50 and maybe even faster to produce. * storm I won't try to make it about pro level balance. On my level it's a bit too easy to get 5-6-7 templar bros and storm the shit out of T marine dudes. Current iteration with the radius increase, however, is a clear buff, as Riddler showed. I actually would not mind a storm that is weaker against light units, and stronger against heavier units (roaches). I could see the following make sense: old radius (1.5), slightly (+25%) increased duration, 60 base damage, +60 (=120) against armored, in first ~0.2s it plays the animation but does no damage (handling overlapping storms requires a careful implementation). | ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On September 24 2025 15:48 bela.mervado wrote: ( I play all three races, I do not hate P at all, but I feel some nerf to P is acceptable especially in T bio vs P ) * obs I don't think it's about F2, I simply do not like the idea of an army being watched or even detected unknowingly. Overseer, scan, raven, even the changeling is visible. I love to watch high level P games, the way competent P bros get vision around their bases. Parking sieged observers near bases in dead air space seems a bit silly and too punishing for the opponent (T doing drops). Alternatively, I could imagine observers being invisible while moving only (patrolling as well). Targetable without detection while stopped, on hold position, or sieged. Could be slightly cheaper at 25/50 and maybe even faster to produce. * storm I won't try to make it about pro level balance. On my level it's a bit too easy to get 5-6-7 templar bros and storm the shit out of T marine dudes. Current iteration with the radius increase, however, is a clear buff, as Riddler showed. I actually would not mind a storm that is weaker against light units, and stronger against heavier units (roaches). I could see the following make sense: old radius (1.5), slightly (+25%) increased duration, 60 base damage, +60 (=120) against armored, in first ~0.2s it plays the animation but does no damage (handling overlapping storms requires a careful implementation). Observers have always been neat because of how specialized they are as dedicated detection units. Every other race, their detection has utility other than just straight detection. Overseers in SC2 can also cast changelings for extra map vision and Contaminate on structures to block production. Ravens are caster units that can drop turrets or support armies or disable mechanical units. This even goes back to Brood War where Overlords provided supply and could be used as Transports while Science Vessels were also caster units like Ravens are. Observers are just detectors, that's all they do, that's all they've ever done. That's why it makes sense that they get to have that permanent cloaking feature, that's why it makes sense they are small and hard to see. They are dedicated scouting and detection units that have absolutely 0 use in combat for any other purpose. So it makes complete sense to me that they are more powerful in that dedicated role because they are a specialized unit. | ||
|
Charoisaur
Germany16065 Posts
On September 24 2025 05:23 SHODAN wrote: yes, correct. storm is buffed and disruptors are insanely buffed after this update. Yeah I don't know why people aren't more vocal on that one. Disruptors were insanely oppressive in PvT before the nerfs and now they will be stronger than ever | ||
|
MJG
United Kingdom1451 Posts
On September 24 2025 18:36 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah I don't know why people aren't more vocal on that one. Disruptors were insanely oppressive in PvT before the nerfs and now they will be stronger than ever They're not going to be stronger than ever because they didn't revert the damage nerf. I am opposed to Disruptors being buffed though. Storm doesn't need to be changed. Just nerf Energy Recharge. EDIT: I would even get rid of the Energy Recharge cooldown buff: "Energy Overcharge cooldown reduced from 60 to 45 seconds." Just give it the straight-up 50% energy restoration nerf. | ||
|
SharkStarcraft
Austria2266 Posts
| ||
baldgye
United Kingdom1103 Posts
On September 24 2025 15:48 bela.mervado wrote: ( I play all three races, I do not hate P at all, but I feel some nerf to P is acceptable especially in T bio vs P ) * obs I don't think it's about F2, I simply do not like the idea of an army being watched or even detected unknowingly. Overseer, scan, raven, even the changeling is visible. I love to watch high level P games, the way competent P bros get vision around their bases. Parking sieged observers near bases in dead air space seems a bit silly and too punishing for the opponent (T doing drops). Alternatively, I could imagine observers being invisible while moving only (patrolling as well). Targetable without detection while stopped, on hold position, or sieged. Could be slightly cheaper at 25/50 and maybe even faster to produce. I kinda agree with this, but I do think that this change is functionally the same as removing the seige ability entirely. At least at higher level games. Like, I can't really think of a point in a game where you could safely uncloak it and have it seiged up, be useful, and not lose it? | ||
|
Moonerz
United States461 Posts
Parking obs in dead space to catch drops is tough though lol, I will say that's the only thing that kinda makes sense with the uncloak change. Now you can know there was one watching your drop, but even that rationale seems lame because you have to specifically produce an observer while an overlord can do the exact job better (spotting drops while chilling in dead air space) and provide supply. Edit: it's a little funny to me this obs thing gets changed while we still have overlord pillars littering the map | ||
|
bela.mervado
Hungary408 Posts
On September 24 2025 21:48 baldgye wrote: Like, I can't really think of a point in a game where you could safely uncloak it and have it seiged up, be useful, and not lose it? It's still useful to siege one obs in the dead airspace, but the terran drop would see it now (but can't kill it). The buffed vision would cover a large area. | ||
|
Agh
United States1045 Posts
Watched Wardi's ptr tournament. Disruptors still seem as bad as ever against anyone with a pulse, glad they were at least attempted though. Ignoring the fodder the PvT's looked pretty skewed, and the Viking count was noticeable. Could have easily made it to the lib suffocation phase next but wasn't necessary. Clem was already somehow managing to win the 'impossible' matchup before, now we just get walkover status vs the 2nd/3rd best protoss. | ||
|
ejozl
Denmark3491 Posts
The aoe buffs are needed because energy overcharge now isn't a buff from battery overcharge and back then protoss was bad and storm + disruptors weren't used. They elected the aoe buff over increasing disruptor dmg and reducing supply, so it's perhaps not OP, but a real 4 supply unit. Libs should have vision of its circle without range upg, imo, and this nerf only makes sense if we're buffing back to 3 range + with the range upg, or changing to the +2 circle increase they were on about in the previous patch. But they could also make it so that while its circle is op it has guaranteed vision of that circle, however the unit itself due to tunneling its vision gets lowered down to 4. This way a +3 range lib has full power, but it's unaware of attacks from behind, that could be interesting. | ||
|
Vision_
875 Posts
It would have been more funny to have a big energy ball rolling straight over the battlefield dealing damage against armored units | ||
|
Minase
36 Posts
| ||
|
SHODAN
United Kingdom1156 Posts
On September 25 2025 03:26 Minase wrote: Wish they'd remove the disruptor. I salute the terrans who are still planning to play ranked on the next patch. you're made of stronger stuff than me  I don't enjoy smurfing in ranked. one way to do it is to grind a hundred games until you hit your realistic best MMR, then play unranked for the rest of a season. that way you can just insta-leave TvP without griefing people in the other match-ups | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
| ||
|
Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On September 25 2025 03:19 Vision_ wrote: Disruptor still the worst design of the game... It would have been more funny to have a big energy ball rolling straight over the battlefield dealing damage against armored units Disruptor is at worst the third worst designed unit in the game. The Swarm Host is the worst designed by several miles. I'd vote the Cyclone after them, could make an argument for the Disruptor after that. | ||
|
jinjin5000
United States1510 Posts
People complain about Skytoss or mech on the power on direct fights. People complained about PDD because it nulled a lot of projectile damage coming in. This is just as powerful and a lot more general. In BW, getting a dark swarm on opponent's side of map is huge pressure and win condition on itself. It's straight up a win if dark swarm gets up near opponent natural. And this is on a game where there's incredibly powerful spellcasters and maps are lot larger and armies move lot, lot slower. SC2 units move much faster and maps are way more compact. There isn't always a case where you can just back off or play perfectly with perfect vision. Sometimes, army can just maneuver into places where you have to take a fight and this nearly guarantees a win This screams that +1 hydra range buff that lasted less than a week before it got reverted. All this does is let it run wild for short time before revert which achieves nothing for balance patch, which ultimately resolves nothing. It's a waste of time for everyone | ||
|
dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On September 25 2025 08:27 jinjin5000 wrote: I don't understand how there isn't more talks about how strong shroud would be, and feedback is "just fight away from it" or "back off" People complain about Skytoss or mech on the power on direct fights. People complained about PDD because it nulled a lot of projectile damage coming in. This is just as powerful and a lot more general. In BW, getting a dark swarm on opponent's side of map is huge pressure and win condition on itself. It's straight up a win if dark swarm gets up near opponent natural. And this is on a game where there's incredibly powerful spellcasters and maps are lot larger and armies move lot, lot slower. SC2 units move much faster and maps are way more compact. There isn't always a case where you can just back off or play perfectly with perfect vision. Sometimes, army can just maneuver into places where you have to take a fight and this nearly guarantees a win This screams that +1 hydra range buff that lasted less than a week before it got reverted. All this does is let it run wild for short time before revert which achieves nothing for balance patch, which ultimately resolves nothing. It's a waste of time for everyone Seems these days Zerg never plays in anything with a prize pool under 1000$ so their changes will fly under the radar! More seriously, I have no idea who felt Zerg needed such a big change. PvZ and TvZ could both obviously be improved on from a player/viewer perspective, but seem relatively balanced. Also, the worst part of PvZ is how toss has to go skytoss because lurkers at a critical mass wins on the ground, and buffed shroud makes lurkers an even bigger problem. I really wish the patch buffed ground toss against lurkers while nerfing skytoss. Something like a late-game upgrade for immortals (maybe enhanced armor against splash?) paired with reverting tempest buffs. | ||
| ||
