EPTAnnual "is EPT/GSL over?" thread - (Answer: Yeah*) - Page 3
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CicadaSC
United States1700 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33383 Posts
On September 21 2024 06:11 CicadaSC wrote: So apparently ESL is putting together plans and will have news though, I think GSL might be done though since even Ragnarok thinks so in his video he made. Now for speculation, maybe ESL is looking to incorporate Korean players in their league somehow? Like either give them their own online circuit like NA and EU has? Then of course top players qualify for offline finals. U can't just say 'apparently'—you have to say where u heard it  | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1700 Posts
On September 21 2024 09:01 Waxangel wrote: U can't just say 'apparently'—you have to say where u heard it the message above mine! i should have quoted it, but they say they are drawing up whats next to share. | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50121 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany6924 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany1158 Posts
So there will be stuff - buuuut the question remains how much. Even if everything would remain the same, we still would probably get one split less, considering that the last season was 1 1/2 years long. Because of the late EWC announcement, it had overlength. But I still expect some more shrinkage, especially in Korea. As I often said, it most likely would make sense to just kick GSL out of the pool and incorporate the korean scene into Asia, adjusting the slots accordingly of course. And from there it depends what we will get. My well-placed sources "Dude", "Trust" and "Me" expect the following: Scenario 1: We will get the full circuit. Katowice, two Masters and the EWC. I think this is the most unlikely so far, sadly. Scenario 2: We will get a smaller circuit. EWC and either two Masters or one Masters and Katowice. Maybe Katowice serves as one of the two Masters, essentially kicking the Katowice-Standalone out. Scenario 3: SC2 gets kicked out of the EWC and we get a long season, with Katowice 2026 serving as the new World Championship. Gotta say, this in my mind is the most unlikely. Not only would ESL not commit to such a long Circuit, but considering how many different games are in the EWC, SC2 will probably stay a part of it just for the game-diversity. And I really can't imagine Stormgate being even being close to ready at the next EWC - if ever. Scenario 4: We only get EWC and maybe one Master (or Katowice), the rest gets relegated to being Online. Scenario 5: We won't get a Circuit at all and instead ESL will host one or two Offline events (at best) that are standalone, with EWC being essentially the new Katowice Scenario 6: Everything gets turned Online, with just the EWC serving as the World Championship. Maybe with the opportunity for smaller TOs and Community-Figures to host point-giving tournaments and cups aswell. Scenario 7: ESL announced the SC2 Proleague with a two million $ prizepool, fully offline of course. It serves as a bridge between now and the soon announced SC3 by Blizzard, which surprisingly becomes the best RTS ever made. Then we wake up and buy some ice cream against the pain. | ||
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riche
Croatia33 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1700 Posts
On September 25 2024 02:25 riche wrote: Whatever they decide, they need to announce it soon. heromarine already announced he retired and will focus on content creation i believe, I wonder who is next. Pro players must be panicing. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25237 Posts
On September 25 2024 03:35 CicadaSC wrote: heromarine already announced he retired and will focus on content creation i believe, I wonder who is next. Pro players must be panicing. I mean did he retire based on the circuit uncertainty or based on having been an SC2 pro for basically 14 years and fancying doing something else? Clarification would be nice obviously but I’m not sure if that’s the real factor in this specific instance | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1158 Posts
On September 25 2024 03:35 CicadaSC wrote: heromarine already announced he retired and will focus on content creation i believe, I wonder who is next. Pro players must be panicing. Wasn't Heromarine already kind of spacing out recently? Still active, but it felt like he was participating less and less in stuff and his scores got worse over the year aswell. For example he didn't try to qualify for BGE nor Stars Wars | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
On September 25 2024 03:35 CicadaSC wrote: heromarine already announced he retired and will focus on content creation i believe, I wonder who is next. Pro players must be panicing. His content isn't that good... Wonder what's his plan. Go back to school and into the workforce? Pro players already know the game is dead. Even if a new year gets announced, no one will realistically be able to make a living out of it unless they are Clem or Serral. We should just let it die and find a new hobby. | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1158 Posts
On September 25 2024 07:23 geokilla wrote: His content isn't that good... Wonder what's his plan. Go back to school and into the workforce? Pro players already know the game is dead. Even if a new year gets announced, no one will realistically be able to make a living out of it unless they are Clem or Serral. We should just let it die and find a new hobby. So I guess that is the moment to say goodbye to you and wish you the best with your new hobby since we won't see you ever again? | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1183 Posts
On September 25 2024 07:23 geokilla wrote: Wonder what's his plan. Go back to school and into the workforce? If I remember correctly from his stream, HeroMarine has already been enrolled in a university program for a while now, having balanced university and pro-gaming around the tournament cycles during this time. Even apart from this, he has been at once a player, streamer, and content creator for years. He's also generally active in the German e-sport scene, organizing for example small offline tournaments. On September 25 2024 07:23 geokilla wrote: We should just let it die and find a new hobby. Yeah, let's abandon all our hobbies the moment they stop being supported by large organizations. | ||
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StarcraftHistorian
United States135 Posts
On August 23 2024 23:31 ZombieGrub wrote: Thanks? haha I talked to a separate esport's talent who had lunch with some uhh important people, and at least one person said "SC2 for a few more years at least" and pointed toward its credibility, prestige, history, etc. It could've been smoke blowing but I'm guessing this person doesn't need to do a whole lot of that on the day-to-day. It is just hearsay but it makes sense. If EWC wants to keep a RTS to fulfill an "olympics of esports" vision, SC2 still remains top dog despite Blizzard giving us the shaft. Plus, I'm doubtful anyone really wants to be the "one who killed SC2" - they're looking for good press, not bad. The bigger question is, imo, whether or not there's a full circuit. Having one huge tournament every summer will only keep the scene going for so long, and won't really get it to thrive. It's gotta be a circuit with a few big tournaments, and a commitment to years, not year, to encourage younger talent to try and overtake the likes of Clem, Serral, Maru, etc. Really well put, I hope we get a dope ass announcement soon! | ||
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geokilla
Canada8240 Posts
On September 25 2024 07:31 Balnazza wrote: So I guess that is the moment to say goodbye to you and wish you the best with your new hobby since we won't see you ever again? I've already picked up a new hobby. I only watch SC2 during the tournaments and for the smaller tournament streams like the weekly, Kung Fu Cup, etc. I used to go crazy watching Polt or all the SC2 streams and VODs to the point where it affected my education. I admit mistakes were made. On September 25 2024 08:23 Antithesis wrote: If I remember correctly from his stream, HeroMarine has already been enrolled in a university program for a while now, having balanced university and pro-gaming around the tournament cycles during this time. Even apart from this, he has been at once a player, streamer, and content creator for years by now. He's also generally active in the German e-sport scene, organizing for example small offline tournaments. Yeah, let's abandon all our hobbies the moment they stop being supported by large organizations. Sorry but I can't see SC2 continuing if ESL can't even continue the weeklies. We are now relying on Rotti, Steadfast, Kaelaris, and Wardi to fund it. If I remember correctly, Rotti said at the beginning he only planned on doing this for a few weeks. I definitely do not see him and the others funding the weekly for months. Let's not forget professional players are humans too and there's no way can make a living competing in small tournaments. Teams need to make a profit and can't post millions in losses every year. Fnatic posted a net loss of 6.37 million euros. In 2022, G2, a much bigger and more successful organization, posted a negative EBIDTA of 670k euros. Rumours are G2 cannot afford to pay Niko after the CS2 Major so he's going to Falcons. NIP, one of the most storied esports organizations, posted a net loss of $13.3m in 2023. Plus if we turn to all the other esports, their leagues are consolidating as the ad and sponsorship money dries up. In League of Legends, LCS is no more. LEC downsized heavily this year and Rogue is looking to sell their LEC spot. In CS2, Valve is making changes starting next year so there's no more tournament partners (simply put) which means less revenue to be made via prize money. I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic but I don't see SC2 continuing when the other major esports and most major organizations are struggling. As I said before, the players are getting older and there's a lack of new blood looking to compete at the highest level. Why bother competing when streaming on Twitch is more relaxing and pays significantly more? Even Doublelift said the only reason he came out of retirement in 2023 was because he wanted to compete and felt he was better than all the other ADCs. Otherwise, streaming was less stressful and paid more. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1700 Posts
On September 25 2024 09:17 StarcraftHistorian wrote: Really well put, I hope we get a dope ass announcement soon! In case you missed it, her tone has changed to a bit more pessimism since writing that. Check her recent tweets she talks about about being bummed, possible one tournament next year, and hard to see a future for SC2. So I wouldn't be so sure and excited we are going to get a "dope ass announcement" soon.😅 | ||
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StarcraftHistorian
United States135 Posts
On September 25 2024 10:50 CicadaSC wrote: In case you missed it, her tone has changed to a bit more pessimism since writing that. Check her recent tweets she talks about about being bummed, possible one tournament next year, and hard to see a future for SC2. So I wouldn't be so sure and excited we are going to get a "dope ass announcement" soon.😅 https://twitter.com/ZGGaming/status/1838285027219771605 I was not aware of timeline of these two posts so ty haha | ||
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Balnazza
Germany1158 Posts
[B] Sorry but I can't see SC2 continuing if ESL can't even continue the weeklies. We are now relying on Rotti, Steadfast, Kaelaris, and Wardi to fund it. If I remember correctly, Rotti said at the beginning he only planned on doing this for a few weeks. I definitely do not see him and the others funding the weekly for months. Let's not forget professional players are humans too and there's no way can make a living competing in small tournaments. Teams need to make a profit and can't post millions in losses every year. Fnatic posted a net loss of 6.37 million euros. In 2022, G2, a much bigger and more successful organization, posted a negative EBIDTA of 670k euros. Rumours are G2 cannot afford to pay Niko after the CS2 Major so he's going to Falcons. NIP, one of the most storied esports organizations, posted a net loss of $13.3m in 2023. Plus if we turn to all the other esports, their leagues are consolidating as the ad and sponsorship money dries up. In League of Legends, LCS is no more. LEC downsized heavily this year and Rogue is looking to sell their LEC spot. In CS2, Valve is making changes starting next year so there's no more tournament partners (simply put) which means less revenue to be made via prize money. I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic but I don't see SC2 continuing when the other major esports and most major organizations are struggling. As I said before, the players are getting older and there's a lack of new blood looking to compete at the highest level. Why bother competing when streaming on Twitch is more relaxing and pays significantly more? Even Doublelift said the only reason he came out of retirement in 2023 was because he wanted to compete and felt he was better than all the other ADCs. Otherwise, streaming was less stressful and paid more. Riot merging leagues together for LoL to fit better with Valorant makes total sense. That way they can use the same four studios for LoL and Valorant, making it much more efficient. Considering that LoL Esports is almost as old as SC2, that is reasonable. Still probably the most profitable Esport out there. And what was that about LEC downsizing? Still 10 teams, most likely 10 next year aswell. Rogue selling their slot also isn't saying much, considering Rogue's situation as a whole (and Team Falcons interest to join). But sure, yes, Esport in itself is financially still not sustainable on its own, it doesn't generate enough money. That's a problem for a while now, which sadly always means that economic crisis always hits Esports hard, with sponsors reducing their involvement. That won't change for a while, but it isn't particularly important for SC2? Which leads me to my bigger point: What exactly is the meaning of "SC continuing"? Granted, without ESL, there are no more offline events. Maaaybe the occassional HSC or something small and fun like that bulgarian thingy. And surely, without these, you don't have a pro-scene. But that doesn't mean SC2 "stops". You can still have a small group of good to great players who can live from the game. You can also still have cool cups and tournaments, casted by your favorite casters (who might organize it aswell). WC3 and AoE 2 do that (with AoE 2 probably having the weirdest life-cycle in the history of Esports). Other smaller games do that aswell. Heck, there are still The Settler 3/4 tournaments. It completly comes down to what you personally enjoy. If it is seeing cool SC2 with great casts - you will probably still get that. Do you want the big flashy tournaments? Then yeah, those are on a timer that might have run out already. And don't get me wrong, it is not bad to say "yeah, I don't care for online stuff, I'm out". Watch what you enjoy. But the assumption that time itself stops the minute there are no more offline events for SC2 is just absurd. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25237 Posts
On September 25 2024 12:02 Balnazza wrote: Riot merging leagues together for LoL to fit better with Valorant makes total sense. That way they can use the same four studios for LoL and Valorant, making it much more efficient. Considering that LoL Esports is almost as old as SC2, that is reasonable. Still probably the most profitable Esport out there. And what was that about LEC downsizing? Still 10 teams, most likely 10 next year aswell. Rogue selling their slot also isn't saying much, considering Rogue's situation as a whole (and Team Falcons interest to join). But sure, yes, Esport in itself is financially still not sustainable on its own, it doesn't generate enough money. That's a problem for a while now, which sadly always means that economic crisis always hits Esports hard, with sponsors reducing their involvement. That won't change for a while, but it isn't particularly important for SC2? Which leads me to my bigger point: What exactly is the meaning of "SC continuing"? Granted, without ESL, there are no more offline events. Maaaybe the occassional HSC or something small and fun like that bulgarian thingy. And surely, without these, you don't have a pro-scene. But that doesn't mean SC2 "stops". You can still have a small group of good to great players who can live from the game. You can also still have cool cups and tournaments, casted by your favorite casters (who might organize it aswell). WC3 and AoE 2 do that (with AoE 2 probably having the weirdest life-cycle in the history of Esports). Other smaller games do that aswell. Heck, there are still The Settler 3/4 tournaments. It completly comes down to what you personally enjoy. If it is seeing cool SC2 with great casts - you will probably still get that. Do you want the big flashy tournaments? Then yeah, those are on a timer that might have run out already. And don't get me wrong, it is not bad to say "yeah, I don't care for online stuff, I'm out". Watch what you enjoy. But the assumption that time itself stops the minute there are no more offline events for SC2 is just absurd. Pretty much, hey I’m hopeful but even if it is a downsize to a WC3 kind of level, I still watch plenty of that. Perhaps if offline tournaments do persist in a sans ESL scenario they’ll be more regional. You don’t need crazy prize pools to make it worth a trip across Europe for Europeans anyway. Hell, non pros do it to play in HSC just for the craic. I’d be more pessimistic about Korea and the US in this scenario. Perhaps China can pick up some slack, who knows? IIRC Blizz has ironed out some issues with getting their games into that region again or whatever the problem was | ||
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