On June 08 2024 21:48 RowdierBob wrote: I am admittedly a very very casual sc2 person but can someone ELI5 how Maru is considered better than Serral when their head to head is 43-19 (from what I could see) in Serral’s favour?
I'll keep it short. Most people that consider Maru the goat will admit Serral is better than him for years, but they argue Maru is the greatest of all times because he was around for far longer and had some success then too. He was always very good, and you can't blame anyone for saying Maru is the GOAT even when he is doing worse than Serral for years.
On June 09 2024 01:58 frustratedsc2user wrote: Why don't people admit that guys like Serral is just genetically superior. Its like asking who's more handsome naturally, Brad Pitt or Adam Driver. Its all genetics. Life is ALL about genetics. Its all Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Its like how women genuinely desire to breed with alphamales and not betamales.
Right now Serral is the alpha of SC2. Everyone else is a beta. They can practice all they want but they will NEVER be able to match true good genetics. It is what it is.
Because we aren't Nazis and recognize genetics are NOT everything. They absolutely play a critical role, but genetics by themselves never tell the full story.
Maru and the Koreans practice day in and day out. Serral barely practices and spends more time doing things like yoga. You cant say he won without pure genetics. You don't have to be a Nazi to know that some people are genetically superior to others. For example, Brad Pitt is 100% genetically superior to Adam Sandler.
How do you know Maru and the Koreans practice day in and day out? Are you a fly on the wall of Maru's apartment?
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
This is dumb.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
On June 09 2024 01:58 frustratedsc2user wrote: Why don't people admit that guys like Serral is just genetically superior. Its like asking who's more handsome naturally, Brad Pitt or Adam Driver. Its all genetics. Life is ALL about genetics. Its all Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Its like how women genuinely desire to breed with alphamales and not betamales.
Right now Serral is the alpha of SC2. Everyone else is a beta. They can practice all they want but they will NEVER be able to match true good genetics. It is what it is.
Because we aren't Nazis and recognize genetics are NOT everything. They absolutely play a critical role, but genetics by themselves never tell the full story.
Maru and the Koreans practice day in and day out. Serral barely practices and spends more time doing things like yoga. You cant say he won without pure genetics. You don't have to be a Nazi to know that some people are genetically superior to others. For example, Brad Pitt is 100% genetically superior to Adam Sandler.
I would have agreed with you 8 years ago. I think it was very easy to attribute Korean success to the Team House environment/their insane work ethic. With the dissolution of KeSpa, we found Koreans branch out in their practices wildly, but the general consensus I believe was they worked less and incorporated more variety into practice beyond just grinding games.
On June 09 2024 01:58 frustratedsc2user wrote: Why don't people admit that guys like Serral is just genetically superior. Its like asking who's more handsome naturally, Brad Pitt or Adam Driver. Its all genetics. Life is ALL about genetics. Its all Darwinism. Survival of the fittest. Its like how women genuinely desire to breed with alphamales and not betamales.
Right now Serral is the alpha of SC2. Everyone else is a beta. They can practice all they want but they will NEVER be able to match true good genetics. It is what it is.
Because we aren't Nazis and recognize genetics are NOT everything. They absolutely play a critical role, but genetics by themselves never tell the full story.
Maru and the Koreans practice day in and day out. Serral barely practices and spends more time doing things like yoga. You cant say he won without pure genetics. You don't have to be a Nazi to know that some people are genetically superior to others. For example, Brad Pitt is 100% genetically superior to Adam Sandler.
I would have agreed with you 8 years ago. I think it was very easy to attribute Korean success to the Team House environment/their insane work ethic. With the dissolution of KeSpa, we found Koreans branch out in their practices wildly, but the general consensus I believe was they worked less and incorporated more variety into practice beyond just grinding games.
It is far easier for the body / mind to maintain skill / strength, than to build it. It is true both in sports / bodybuilding / esports, so while Clem right now might not need to practice a ton, he used to grind A LOT back in the days. There might be a more efficient way to train the mechanics of young aspiring pro gamers, but usually people need to put in the hours at some point.
On June 10 2024 00:28 Poopi wrote: It is far easier for the body / mind to maintain skill / strength, than to build it. It is true both in sports / bodybuilding / esports, so while Clem right now might not need to practice a ton, he used to grind A LOT back in the days. There might be a more efficient way to train the mechanics of young aspiring pro gamers, but usually people need to put in the hours at some point.
Aye, a top class concert pianist isn’t generally grinding all the time once established, they certainly were putting in the hours as youths though.
On June 10 2024 00:28 Poopi wrote: It is far easier for the body / mind to maintain skill / strength, than to build it. It is true both in sports / bodybuilding / esports, so while Clem right now might not need to practice a ton, he used to grind A LOT back in the days. There might be a more efficient way to train the mechanics of young aspiring pro gamers, but usually people need to put in the hours at some point.
You know pure genetics beats pure hard work right? For example, if a tall, handsome guy goes to the club with a short ugly balding guy who approaches as many girls as possible, who do you think will end up dancing with and bringing home more girls?
On June 10 2024 00:28 Poopi wrote: It is far easier for the body / mind to maintain skill / strength, than to build it. It is true both in sports / bodybuilding / esports, so while Clem right now might not need to practice a ton, he used to grind A LOT back in the days. There might be a more efficient way to train the mechanics of young aspiring pro gamers, but usually people need to put in the hours at some point.
You know pure genetics beats pure hard work right? For example, if a tall, handsome guy goes to the club with a short ugly balding guy who approaches as many girls as possible, who do you think will end up dancing with and bringing home more girls?
On June 10 2024 00:28 Poopi wrote: It is far easier for the body / mind to maintain skill / strength, than to build it. It is true both in sports / bodybuilding / esports, so while Clem right now might not need to practice a ton, he used to grind A LOT back in the days. There might be a more efficient way to train the mechanics of young aspiring pro gamers, but usually people need to put in the hours at some point.
You know pure genetics beats pure hard work right? For example, if a tall, handsome guy goes to the club with a short ugly balding guy who approaches as many girls as possible, who do you think will end up dancing with and bringing home more girls?
Then your genetics for trolling must be awfully bad
On June 08 2024 21:48 RowdierBob wrote: I am admittedly a very very casual sc2 person but can someone ELI5 how Maru is considered better than Serral when their head to head is 43-19 (from what I could see) in Serral’s favour?
I'll keep it short. Most people that consider Maru the goat will admit Serral is better than him for years, but they argue Maru is the greatest of all times because he was around for far longer and had some success then too. He was always very good, and you can't blame anyone for saying Maru is the GOAT even when he is doing worse than Serral for years.
Thanks!
Well, they also play different races. Folks who favor Maru for GOAT almost certainly bake in the assumption that Terran is a more difficult race. Serral is undoubtedly the greatest Zerg of all time, though.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
Nothing would have made the game worse for me in HotS than if there was a version of Lilbow that was good.
On June 04 2024 01:31 goldensail wrote: I don't remember if it was this topic or the Addendum topic where I made the statement that IMO, if Serral had played Terran, he would be behind Maru, Inno, Clem, and a few others. This pissed off some people, who either said I was absurd or baseless. I admit I had no evidence, and it was little more than a hunch.
Lo and behold I just came across this video of Serral playing Terran against a nobody Zerg in a Finnish contest. I'll let you watch the series and draw your own conclusion on whether my hunch is justified. Remember this happened around end of '18 when Serral was already placed on a pedestal by many.
A) You can't take offracing seriously. They invest thousands of hours into the race they play and let the other two atrophy.
B) Back when soO was 6.6k (2017) he was between 5.8 and and 5.5 as Terran on the KR Server. This is a case by case basis type deal.
C) He'll forever be the first foreigner to win Blizzcon butm as for his actual tournament resume goes, he was nowhere near the most decorated player in the world/SC2 history.
D) You just outed yourself, dude. Did you actually refer to ZhuGeLiang a random Zerg nobody? When did you start following SC2 and, do you only watch Serral matches?
I started watching SC2 with a caster named HDStarcraft, he was one of the pioneers in this space and some of the readers probably remember him.
I'm aware that Zhugeliang is one of the best players in Finland but that's not saying a whole lot. I was probably too harsh to call him "nobody", but if you watched the series it should be obvious that he played poorly.
I acknowledge that Serral offracing in Terran is not the same as playing Terran full time. However: 1) Serral clearly felt confident enough about playing Terran that he chose to use it in a tournament 2) it wasn't just his micro that's mediocre, but also his multi-tasking. The latter is a transferrable skill between races.
We'll never really know how good Serral would've become as Terran, but his performance in this series indirectly supports my original opinion that he wouldn't be as good as Maru, Inno, etc. if he had chosen to play this race. Is it proof? No. But to say he would've become one of the best Terrans is a baseless conjecture.
Again, I know I read somewhere that Serral orginally played Terran but later switched to Zerg. I can't find the source now. I hope someone with actual knowledge of this can confirm or disaffirm.
And how many Terrans would have similar results with races with far less micro potential?
Players either pick a race they find cool and gradually morph to it, or a race that suits how they wanna play and suits them. There are probably exceptions who play the ‘wrong race’ to be fair but generally.
The whole point is that the races are different anyway. That’s why StarCraft was so successful in the first place.
Will a top player who’d played another race for years be 100% equivalent to their current form in our reality? Not necessarily, of course, but they’ll likely be somewhere in the ballpark. Hell some may actually do better as per my previous.
It’s typical Terran master race to only apply this in one direction. Plenty of Terrans have fantastic micro and macro and just bludgeon their opponents with it. This isn’t something you can do so much with the other two, especially not Protoss.
Clem with his current skill set in this timeline clearly has a game suited to his chosen race, as does Serral for his. But I somewhat doubt that if you swapped their races around back in 2012 or whenever, they wouldn’t be competitive players now.
Serral as a Heart of the Swarm Protoss would have been disgusting.
Nothing would have made the game worse for me in HotS than if there was a version of Lilbow that was good.
I think it's reasonable to assume that Serral could have been a better version of Rain—which is remarkable given Rain was one of the only two players to Win 2 KIL and reach a third final (Inno is the other) during Hots.
If everything lined up for Serral in this type of scenario he might have been in the top 2 goat argument as early as 2017 (subbing in for Inno in the Inno/Mvp debate) or even the undisputed Goat at that time.
After Serral getting the official GOAT trophy and 4:0 -ing Maru once again; wasnt even close btw.. just like last time... shouldnt this post u know... not be here xDDDDDD
On June 11 2024 04:56 Furaijin wrote: After Serral getting the official GOAT trophy and 4:0 -ing Maru once again; wasnt even close btw.. just like last time... shouldnt this post u know... not be here xDDDDDD
It's almost as if different people can have different opinions on the same subjective topic.
ESL going out of their way to push their opinion doesn't make it anymore fact than if I were to pick a name out of a hat.
On June 11 2024 04:56 Furaijin wrote: After Serral getting the official GOAT trophy and 4:0 -ing Maru once again; wasnt even close btw.. just like last time... shouldnt this post u know... not be here xDDDDDD
EPT
Vortex
