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on the other topic... 
IMHO the qualification system is quite fair. We (or at least I) want to see the best players compete for World Championship, regardless of their region.
Thus ANY global champion earns a spot. The top finalists of global top tier tournaments should get seeded as well.
Then letting a small number of players in by a regional factor is somewhat ok, otherwise it would be (almost) completely EU and KOR players, that's not too global...
But all the rest should qualify via global standings and/or open qualifier
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On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there.
Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada.
So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home.
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 03:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there. Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada. So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home.
This has less than nothing to do with what I posted though.
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 02:54 Tommy131313 wrote:
Personally, I think of that bad money / good money thing quite relaxed.
They can "buy" a gorgeous prize pool with their money, I don't care too much, where all the bucks come from. Or, as someone said above "better they spend it for Starcraft Tournament than for something, that can hurt people".
What's VERY important to me is, that they can't buy my political opinion or my ethics/moral feeling.
For me, this perspective helps a lot trying not to be a hypocrite and splitting countries in evil or good but instead make distinctions in the different aspects of countries like authoritarian/democratic, peaceful/bellicose, liberal/oppressive,racist/tolerant etc.
I salute the engagement for Starcraft/E-Sports, I don't salute the Saudi royalty.
Yes that’s a reasonable set of distinctions to make, although personally I’m not sure if those two components can be kept fully separate in all scenarios.
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On February 04 2024 03:13 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 03:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there. Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada. So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home. This has less than nothing to do with what I posted though.
you gave Blizzard an excuse. I'm not doing so. They choose to ply their trade in the USA. They could easily move to a country with stronger labour laws. Perhaps in a different country Janette Whipper doesn't get fired and we find out what really happened.
I don't care how many rainbow buttons the employees wear at Blizzcon... their actions speak louder than their red aids ribbons.
By setting up and remaining in the USA they are endorsing its foriegn policy.
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 03:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 03:13 WombaT wrote:On February 04 2024 03:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there. Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada. So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home. This has less than nothing to do with what I posted though. you gave Blizzard an excuse. I'm not doing so. They choose to ply their trade in the USA. They could easily move to a country with stronger labour laws. Perhaps in a different country Janette Whipper doesn't get fired and we find out what really happened. I don't care how many rainbow buttons the employees wear at Blizzcon... their actions speak louder than their red aids ribbons. By setting up and remaining in the USA they are endorsing its foriegn policy.
What excuse? Observing that it’s not an arm of a nation-state? :S
I know you do enjoy any excuse to do your ‘Hey kids sit down and Uncle Jimmy will tell you how the world works!’ shtick, but can you at least tether it vaguely to the points people are making instead of apropos of nothing?
There is an admirable simplicity in your ‘if you don’t like it, just move’ solution to most of life’s problem, be it in the workplace, or wider political disagreement with your nation. Now as an addendum to that any person or organisation that doesn’t just move tacitly supports everything done by the state they reside, which is frankly ludicrous.
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On February 04 2024 01:39 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
I can't wrap my head around people who value their entertainment above not supporting a government that tortured and murdered a journalist in an embassy in another country, then chopped up his body into little pieces with a bone saw to hide the evidence.
And this is the only country that does something terrible like that?
What about the US bombing innocent civilians with drones, or supporting Israel's inhumane genocide against Palestine? (Regardless of where you stand on Palestine vs Israel, war crimes are being committed and supported).
Or what about planned false flag attacks against its own civilians that were eventually discovered and confirmed? (The discovered ones didn't happen, but calls into question other weird events that possibly may also have been false flag attacks in retrospect?)
Or what about assassinating a high ranking military official, with no legit evidence that that country was planning to commit a terrorist attack or wage war on the US, when no state of war was declared?
Or invading another country based on "strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction", and it ends up being nothing and lots of people are killed for nothing?
Or in general undermining the democracy of other countries by usurping its governments to install a puppet?
Yeah the US and many other countries do tons of this stuff and gets away with it. And that's just one country that I'm familiar with, I'm not trying to single out the US.
It's not so easy to decide where to set the bar. To me, war crimes are war crimes. Some war crimes are worse than others, but they're all terrible and horrible. It's completely reasonable to me why some people feel like singling out just Saudi Arabia as the only country whose esports tournaments should be boycotted is weird.
If you wanna single out this 1 incident of this journalist being tortured, that's fine with me, but there's so many different ways people weigh things that have merit. (Lives of many being lost vs lives of few being tortured, etc.)
Not saying you can't boycott this tournament if you want to. But it's weird to me finding it weird that others don't draw the bar the same place you decide to. It's even arguable whether giving them extra views really "supports" them or not in any meaningful way. The money is already being thrown into the scene, IMO just take the money and keep whatever original opinion you have of the country. I think taking a million dollars for poor progamers is pretty morally justified if all it does is give them some extra views.
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I am with you that corruption and crime, by any government, should be criticised. The reason we are talking about Saudi Arabia right now is that this particular tournament is funded and organised by the government of Saudia Arabia.
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 05:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 01:39 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
I can't wrap my head around people who value their entertainment above not supporting a government that tortured and murdered a journalist in an embassy in another country, then chopped up his body into little pieces with a bone saw to hide the evidence. And this is the only country that does something terrible like that? What about the US bombing innocent civilians with drones, or supporting Israel's inhumane genocide against Palestine? (Regardless of where you stand on Palestine vs Israel, war crimes are being committed and supported). Or what about planned false flag attacks against its own civilians that were eventually discovered and confirmed? (The discovered ones didn't happen, but calls into question other weird events that possibly may also have been false flag attacks in retrospect?) Or what about assassinating a high ranking military official, with no legit evidence that that country was planning to commit a terrorist attack or wage war on the US, when no state of war was declared? Or invading another country based on "strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction", and it ends up being nothing and lots of people are killed for nothing? Or in general undermining the democracy of other countries by usurping its governments to install a puppet? Yeah the US and many other countries do tons of this stuff and gets away with it. And that's just one country that I'm familiar with, I'm not trying to single out the US. It's not so easy to decide where to set the bar. To me, war crimes are war crimes. Some war crimes are worse than others, but they're all terrible and horrible. It's completely reasonable to me why some people feel like singling out just Saudi Arabia as the only country whose esports tournaments should be boycotted is weird. If you wanna single out this 1 incident of this journalist being tortured, that's fine with me, but there's so many different ways people weigh things that have merit. (Lives of many being lost vs lives of few being tortured, etc.) Not saying you can't boycott this tournament if you want to. But it's weird to me finding it weird that others don't draw the bar the same place you decide to. It's even arguable whether giving them extra views really "supports" them or not. The money is already being thrown into the scene, IMO just take the money and keep whatever original opinion you have of the country.
It’s not because other countries don’t have these issues, but that individuals in those countries doing w/e it is may have nothing to do with those actions, or actively oppose them. Whereas you can’t really draw a divide between people and state if it is very much the latter who is orchestrating these various Saudi expansions into territory like eSports.
I believe the US military has been sponsoring or in some way getting involved in some eSports, can’t remember specifics so don’t quote me, but my brain does recall something. Not in favour of that either.
If anyone thinks some of us aren’t critical of other nations, I’d suggest browsing a page of the various politics pages, trust me the US doesn’t get off lightly :p
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France12761 Posts
I mean, their sportwashing activity is kind of having a Barbra Streisand effect imo. Most people wouldn’t bother to look at what Saudi Arabia is doing, but now that they give money for sport and esports a lot more people know about the human rights issues etc of Saudi Arabia.
So not only do they give some money to our fragile scene, it’s kind of a win - win because even people vehemently against the state can talk about it to people that may not know
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On February 04 2024 05:51 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 05:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On February 04 2024 01:39 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
I can't wrap my head around people who value their entertainment above not supporting a government that tortured and murdered a journalist in an embassy in another country, then chopped up his body into little pieces with a bone saw to hide the evidence. And this is the only country that does something terrible like that? What about the US bombing innocent civilians with drones, or supporting Israel's inhumane genocide against Palestine? (Regardless of where you stand on Palestine vs Israel, war crimes are being committed and supported). Or what about planned false flag attacks against its own civilians that were eventually discovered and confirmed? (The discovered ones didn't happen, but calls into question other weird events that possibly may also have been false flag attacks in retrospect?) Or what about assassinating a high ranking military official, with no legit evidence that that country was planning to commit a terrorist attack or wage war on the US, when no state of war was declared? Or invading another country based on "strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction", and it ends up being nothing and lots of people are killed for nothing? Or in general undermining the democracy of other countries by usurping its governments to install a puppet? Yeah the US and many other countries do tons of this stuff and gets away with it. And that's just one country that I'm familiar with, I'm not trying to single out the US. It's not so easy to decide where to set the bar. To me, war crimes are war crimes. Some war crimes are worse than others, but they're all terrible and horrible. It's completely reasonable to me why some people feel like singling out just Saudi Arabia as the only country whose esports tournaments should be boycotted is weird. If you wanna single out this 1 incident of this journalist being tortured, that's fine with me, but there's so many different ways people weigh things that have merit. (Lives of many being lost vs lives of few being tortured, etc.) Not saying you can't boycott this tournament if you want to. But it's weird to me finding it weird that others don't draw the bar the same place you decide to. It's even arguable whether giving them extra views really "supports" them or not. The money is already being thrown into the scene, IMO just take the money and keep whatever original opinion you have of the country. It’s not because other countries don’t have these issues, but that individuals in those countries doing w/e it is may have nothing to do with those actions, or actively oppose them. Whereas you can’t really draw a divide between people and state if it is very much the latter who is orchestrating these various Saudi expansions into territory like eSports. I believe the US military has been sponsoring or in some way getting involved in some eSports, can’t remember specifics so don’t quote me, but my brain does recall something. Not in favour of that either. If anyone thinks some of us aren’t critical of other nations, I’d suggest browsing a page of the various politics pages, trust me the US doesn’t get off lightly :p
The US airforce is an official partner of ESL, or at least was for a time. Haven't watched enough recently so I'm not up to date.
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On February 04 2024 03:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there. Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada. So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home.
We're not that good either. Have you seen how we're scamming "international students" for the past few years? Don't forget about the Chinese Head Tax and how we literally built the CPR with blood, sweat, and tears.
I also find it silly how you guys are up in arms about Saudi Arabia but are OK with what's happening in Palestine and Ukraine. In my opinion, what's happening in Palestine is far worse than what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.
On February 04 2024 06:42 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 05:51 WombaT wrote:On February 04 2024 05:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On February 04 2024 01:39 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
I can't wrap my head around people who value their entertainment above not supporting a government that tortured and murdered a journalist in an embassy in another country, then chopped up his body into little pieces with a bone saw to hide the evidence. And this is the only country that does something terrible like that? What about the US bombing innocent civilians with drones, or supporting Israel's inhumane genocide against Palestine? (Regardless of where you stand on Palestine vs Israel, war crimes are being committed and supported). Or what about planned false flag attacks against its own civilians that were eventually discovered and confirmed? (The discovered ones didn't happen, but calls into question other weird events that possibly may also have been false flag attacks in retrospect?) Or what about assassinating a high ranking military official, with no legit evidence that that country was planning to commit a terrorist attack or wage war on the US, when no state of war was declared? Or invading another country based on "strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction", and it ends up being nothing and lots of people are killed for nothing? Or in general undermining the democracy of other countries by usurping its governments to install a puppet? Yeah the US and many other countries do tons of this stuff and gets away with it. And that's just one country that I'm familiar with, I'm not trying to single out the US. It's not so easy to decide where to set the bar. To me, war crimes are war crimes. Some war crimes are worse than others, but they're all terrible and horrible. It's completely reasonable to me why some people feel like singling out just Saudi Arabia as the only country whose esports tournaments should be boycotted is weird. If you wanna single out this 1 incident of this journalist being tortured, that's fine with me, but there's so many different ways people weigh things that have merit. (Lives of many being lost vs lives of few being tortured, etc.) Not saying you can't boycott this tournament if you want to. But it's weird to me finding it weird that others don't draw the bar the same place you decide to. It's even arguable whether giving them extra views really "supports" them or not. The money is already being thrown into the scene, IMO just take the money and keep whatever original opinion you have of the country. It’s not because other countries don’t have these issues, but that individuals in those countries doing w/e it is may have nothing to do with those actions, or actively oppose them. Whereas you can’t really draw a divide between people and state if it is very much the latter who is orchestrating these various Saudi expansions into territory like eSports. I believe the US military has been sponsoring or in some way getting involved in some eSports, can’t remember specifics so don’t quote me, but my brain does recall something. Not in favour of that either. If anyone thinks some of us aren’t critical of other nations, I’d suggest browsing a page of the various politics pages, trust me the US doesn’t get off lightly :p The US airforce is an official partner of ESL, or at least was for a time. Haven't watched enough recently so I'm not up to date.
They are still partnered with ESL. Has been for the past few years.
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 06:13 Poopi wrote:
I mean, their sportwashing activity is kind of having a Barbra Streisand effect imo. Most people wouldn’t bother to look at what Saudi Arabia is doing, but now that they give money for sport and esports a lot more people know about the human rights issues etc of Saudi Arabia.
So not only do they give some money to our fragile scene, it’s kind of a win - win because even people vehemently against the state can talk about it to people that may not know
Aye, it’s the kind of thing I’d actually like to see some cold numbers on, I’m quite curious what that breakdown looks like.
But yeah it is very much genuinely the proverbial double-edged sword as you said, although I suppose only if sufficient people do the legwork, and subsequent people ride that momentum.
I mean case in point Amnesty International did plenty of work cataloguing human rights in Qatar, as they always do in various but it was really only with Qatar being (fucking ridiculously IMO) awarded a World Cup that saw more and more people paying attention.
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On February 04 2024 07:47 geokilla wrote:
I also find it silly how you guys are up in arms about Saudi Arabia but are OK with what's happening in Palestine and Ukraine. In my opinion, what's happening in Palestine is far worse than what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.
Who is OK with what's happening in Ukraine? Russia has been pretty well boycotted and there would (rightfully) be an insane outrage if the world cup of sc2 was held in Russia.
Unless ofc you're a tankie that thinks NATO and nazis caused Russia to have to invade to protect poor Russians or smth...
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 07:47 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 03:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On February 03 2024 13:44 WombaT wrote:
Yes the US, my nation too have done shitty things in my lifetime, but Blizzard is not calling the shots on US foreign policy, or ESL historically that of Germany. These Saudi ventures are inextricable from the oppressive state itself, hence the reaction from some.
Blizzard can easily move to Canada. M$ was fully prepared to leave Washington for Vancouver until the US government backed down. Blizzard chooses to be there. American athletes do this crap all the time. They make it sound like the US is horrible and then inform the entire league they won't show up if sent to Toronto, Canada. If the US were really that bad they would not be there. Bottom line is Canada's best talent all heads south because the US is better than Canada. So it isn't just "Blizzard" deciding to stay in the USA its top software craftsmen like Canadian David Kim deciding to make the USA their home. We're not that good either. Have you seen how we're scamming "international students" for the past few years? Don't forget about the Chinese Head Tax and how we literally built the CPR with blood, sweat, and tears. I also find it silly how you guys are up in arms about Saudi Arabia but are OK with what's happening in Palestine and Ukraine. In my opinion, what's happening in Palestine is far worse than what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 06:42 Durnuu wrote:On February 04 2024 05:51 WombaT wrote:On February 04 2024 05:26 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On February 04 2024 01:39 Crocolisk Dundee wrote:
I can't wrap my head around people who value their entertainment above not supporting a government that tortured and murdered a journalist in an embassy in another country, then chopped up his body into little pieces with a bone saw to hide the evidence. And this is the only country that does something terrible like that? What about the US bombing innocent civilians with drones, or supporting Israel's inhumane genocide against Palestine? (Regardless of where you stand on Palestine vs Israel, war crimes are being committed and supported). Or what about planned false flag attacks against its own civilians that were eventually discovered and confirmed? (The discovered ones didn't happen, but calls into question other weird events that possibly may also have been false flag attacks in retrospect?) Or what about assassinating a high ranking military official, with no legit evidence that that country was planning to commit a terrorist attack or wage war on the US, when no state of war was declared? Or invading another country based on "strong evidence of weapons of mass destruction", and it ends up being nothing and lots of people are killed for nothing? Or in general undermining the democracy of other countries by usurping its governments to install a puppet? Yeah the US and many other countries do tons of this stuff and gets away with it. And that's just one country that I'm familiar with, I'm not trying to single out the US. It's not so easy to decide where to set the bar. To me, war crimes are war crimes. Some war crimes are worse than others, but they're all terrible and horrible. It's completely reasonable to me why some people feel like singling out just Saudi Arabia as the only country whose esports tournaments should be boycotted is weird. If you wanna single out this 1 incident of this journalist being tortured, that's fine with me, but there's so many different ways people weigh things that have merit. (Lives of many being lost vs lives of few being tortured, etc.) Not saying you can't boycott this tournament if you want to. But it's weird to me finding it weird that others don't draw the bar the same place you decide to. It's even arguable whether giving them extra views really "supports" them or not. The money is already being thrown into the scene, IMO just take the money and keep whatever original opinion you have of the country. It’s not because other countries don’t have these issues, but that individuals in those countries doing w/e it is may have nothing to do with those actions, or actively oppose them. Whereas you can’t really draw a divide between people and state if it is very much the latter who is orchestrating these various Saudi expansions into territory like eSports. I believe the US military has been sponsoring or in some way getting involved in some eSports, can’t remember specifics so don’t quote me, but my brain does recall something. Not in favour of that either. If anyone thinks some of us aren’t critical of other nations, I’d suggest browsing a page of the various politics pages, trust me the as US doesn’t get off lightly :p The US airforce is an official partner of ESL, or at least was for a time. Haven't watched enough recently so I'm not up to date. They are still partnered with ESL. Has been for the past few years.
Where are you getting that from?
I already invited yourself and other folks to peruse the US Politics thread, or the Israeli/Palestine thread if you feel people aren’t being critical of the players there. Go for it and get back to me ^_^
And again, to be pointed out, again, after I specifically made the point prior. And others did. The Saudi Arabian ruling monarchical class and state is funding this, and other efforts. It’s their baby. It’s completely inextricable from that state.
Imagine if you will David Attenborough. Possibly the only British thing ever that nobody hates, despite being as British at his core as it is possible to be.
Now imagine the British Monarchy, the very idea of monarchy being anathema to many people’s ideals of egalitarianism. Or the British military. And all that fun, fun history of oppression you get from both institutions.
Now imagine David Attenborough via a great-great-great grandson discovered StarCraft, he found it fascinating and he threw up some money to have a big World Championship extravaganza. Hell, he loves it so much he’s fucking casting with Tasteless, it shouldn’t work but godamnit it does.
Now imagine the British monarchy combining with the military to do the same to burnish their image via eSports
Sure they’re both British, not really the same is it though?
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On February 04 2024 07:47 geokilla wrote:
I also find it silly how you guys are up in arms about Saudi Arabia but are OK with what's happening in Palestine and Ukraine. In my opinion, what's happening in Palestine is far worse than what happened to Jamal Khashoggi.
[The U.S. Air Force] are still partnered with ESL. Has been for the past few years.
The IDF is committing genocide in Gaza. Russia is waging an illegal war of aggression against Ukraine.
Neither the IDF nor Russia are funding or organising this particular tournament. If they did, it would be another reason to boycott the tournament for me.
It appears you are right, the USAF seems to be partnered with ESL now. Another reason not to watch their content.
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On February 04 2024 03:05 Tommy131313 wrote:on the other topic... IMHO the qualification system is quite fair. We (or at least I) want to see the best players compete for World Championship, regardless of their region. Thus ANY global champion earns a spot. The top finalists of global top tier tournaments should get seeded as well. Then letting a small number of players in by a regional factor is somewhat ok, otherwise it would be (almost) completely EU and KOR players, that's not too global... But all the rest should qualify via global standings and/or open qualifier
If you truly wanted to see the best of the best of sc2 in a given moment, you would advocate for a open qualifier and not a seeded system.
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On February 04 2024 17:25 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 03:05 Tommy131313 wrote:on the other topic... IMHO the qualification system is quite fair. We (or at least I) want to see the best players compete for World Championship, regardless of their region. Thus ANY global champion earns a spot. The top finalists of global top tier tournaments should get seeded as well. Then letting a small number of players in by a regional factor is somewhat ok, otherwise it would be (almost) completely EU and KOR players, that's not too global... But all the rest should qualify via global standings and/or open qualifier If you truly wanted to see the best of the best of sc2 in a given moment, you would advocate for a open qualifier and not a seeded system.
You can have the majority of the spot for open qualifiers, and still save a few for regional representation. The quality isnt significantly hurt, and u guarantee the "world status"
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Northern Ireland24224 Posts
On February 04 2024 17:25 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2024 03:05 Tommy131313 wrote:on the other topic... IMHO the qualification system is quite fair. We (or at least I) want to see the best players compete for World Championship, regardless of their region. Thus ANY global champion earns a spot. The top finalists of global top tier tournaments should get seeded as well. Then letting a small number of players in by a regional factor is somewhat ok, otherwise it would be (almost) completely EU and KOR players, that's not too global... But all the rest should qualify via global standings and/or open qualifier If you truly wanted to see the best of the best of sc2 in a given moment, you would advocate for an open qualifier and not a seeded system.
Most sports I’m aware of do a combination of both, with historical performances granting seeds and qualifications, and open qualifiers to give someone hot a shot.
But, I’m not crazy happy with how this has been done, and how it’s a departure from qualification standards from the last time, and how it’s only been announced halfway (roughly) through a season, retrospectively.
So two ESL Masters (concluded) give solely the Champions a spot. The upcoming tournament gives the top 4 a slot.
It starts to get wonky, if we take a quick look at the Koreans who would have got slots, if those previous ones went with top 4, likes of Dark, Cure, Gumiho.
It’s conceivable that let’s say Byun has a top 4 showing in the next ESL Masters, and a top ranking Korea EPT player doesn’t make top 4 in Kato or that tournament, that the latter takes a Korean slot on points and Byun takes a slot from the ESL Masters. And one of Solar/Cure don’t.
For having the same result as Byun in the exact same tournament(s), now that is just wonky.
The EPT system is borderline pointless when it could have been the baseline, and regionally I don’t think it’s very fairly drawn.
Be it more consistency, a bigger emphasis on EPT points, more open qualification or indeed a combination of the above, there are certainly improvements to be made IMO.
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I would prefer to have a 24 player tournament with some more open qualifier spots (overall maybe 4 or 6) and then 2 to 4 spots more through EPT or something like that as well.
But then again I don't really get what the discussion is all about, even with 18 players at the finals, with the current state of the sc2 scene you can pretty much say, that everyone of importance (every high level player with a somewhat reasonable shot at competing on a high enough level) will qualify, since the scene is not that big that it offers a lot more than 18 players of that calibre anymore.
Sure maybe a SHIN or a Stats or Parting or Bunny/Ryung will miss out, and I like those guys and wish them all the eSports money in the world, but it is not like this "A-" or "B+" Players always qualified in the past.
If at all it got a lot easier in the past few years since the competition dwindled.
And I'm sure the tournament will be, aside from the political shenanigans, a highlight of the year. No matter if there are 18 or 24 players or even more
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EPT
