New Balance Patch: 5.0.12 - Page 8

On September 29 2023 16:34 661 wrote:


lol they are the same, upgrade time is 14 sec shorter which means if you doesnt use them as a timing it changes nothing

On September 30 2023 15:46 Swaann wrote:
Glad to see that EU and Asia still don't have the right to enjoy the patch

On September 29 2023 19:21 Durnuu wrote:
Balance council trying to kill sc2 before their own RTS gets released, understandable

On October 02 2023 05:27 Glorfindelio wrote:
Really try not to comment a ton on balance, but this patch is truly, truly awful in so many regards. As other people have mentioned, the game in the patch state feels very random and unstable under the top 20 players in the world.

On October 02 2023 04:13 sidasf wrote:


This is what it really feels like.


Zerg is legit dead after this patch, they just ruined the race for anyone who isn't Serral or Reynor. How can you double nerf a CORE unit vs terran bio and then not nerf terran bio (and then buff it)? Nerfing not only baneling damage but baneling hp is insane. How the fuck is zerg supposed to deal with marines? On top of that infestor cast range is nerfed, broodlings are now complete shit with the new broodlings (slower, less attack speed, less hp), and not to mention the lurker nerf. Zerg is already 21% of GM. They are not balancing the game, they are balancing around the top 15 players until maru and showtime can brute force their way through Serral, while ruining the game for 99.9% of players (ladder players, low-mid level tourn players, watchers,) AKA the lifeblood of the game.

Also makes sense considering scarlett is working on her own new rts and stormgate devs have shilled keys to a bunch of streamers/top players. The last two patches were great, this one is terrible. There needs to be a follow up within a month or so with adjustments. To leave Starcraft 2 in this game state is criminal. Of course the balance council hides behind anonymity, ignores feedback and escapes and culpability.

I don’t know what the fuck happened here, perhaps some transparency would be in order, on the flipside you just know any publicly visible figure would cop shitloads of nonsense from unhappy players.

I don’t think it’s necessarily fair to pin the blame on some quarters or especially in casting aspersions on people’s motivations.

Just because (sensibly) companies trying to develop the next generation of competitive RTS have a bunch of pros essentially doing consulting work doesn’t mean they’ve any vested interest in damaging the game of SC2

Scarlett’s still qualifying for Code S, Harstem’s a solid European pro who does a ton of video content, almost exclusively SC2, Heromarine and Lambo are up with the top of Europe’s pros in that sub Serral/Reynor/Clem tier.

They’re not going to shit where they’re currently eating and sabotage a game they all loved enough to go pro in, in a genre they’re passionate about enough to push all these upcoming titles.

They’re not going to shit where they’re currently eating and sabotage a game they all loved enough to go pro in, in a genre they’re passionate about enough to push all these upcoming titles.

100% I could see, even if entirely unintentional that people’s racial or other biases can creep in but I think it’s rather out of order to question the integrity of some folks who’ve given so much to a scene, some for a decade plus at this point.

However, don’t get me wrong IMO this patch is absolutely a step in the wrong direction and I’m mystified how it’s going live as is

On October 02 2023 06:01 Swaann wrote:

The patch was released 2 days ago, and is still NA only. Maybe we can wait a bigger sample to judge...

On October 02 2023 07:24 sidasf wrote:


I know this is true. It's also true that the game is in an unacceptable state (as you have mentioned), so at some point there needs to be accountability. I wish they'd just give some sort of venue of communication and be a lot more responsive, then perhaps it wouldn't be necessary to name the players. But the conflict of interest has been increasingly worrying to me.



Here is where I disagree. To begin with, the new RTS are coming out very shortly. Zerospace has been featured in a lot of videos, is completely playable and the devs are already getting large streamrs to display it (giant grant etc). Stormgate is already inviting people to play in the beta and has given keys to multiple large streamers/top level players to advertise it.

There is a personal financial incentive involved for the players-let's be honest SC2 isn't huge anymore and I doubt people like pig or scarlett are swimming in cash from it. If people suddenly migrate en masse to their new RTS, they're going to make a lot more money. That's really the bottom line, it is by definition a conflict of interest.

This isn't a dig at pig or scarlett-it's just reality. Everyone has bills, everyone needs to earn a living. I don't know who else is on the council but I'd be very surprised if Lambo was considering A. the over the top nerfs to zerg B. He seemed rather unhappy with the patch in his patch review video.



This is just wishful thinking, and this thought process is the way a child views the world-and I don't mean this as an insult to you, because there are a lot of adults that think this way. Love and passion only go so far. Everyone needs to earn a living, and if it means making more money from everyone migrating from SC2 to their actual child and investment-just about every single human on the planet will take that opportunity.

There doesn't even have to be a purposeful, sinister motive here. There just is less to lose-look at our current patch. What if this is the last patch we get? People slowly trickle away due to this awful meta. And hey the council took a risk and "spiced things up" but they were okay with that risk, because it means people will just be looking for a new rts to play (like theirs).



That's the sad part because I like to think highly of our pro player community. It's strange because the last two patches were fine tuned, small, and overall very good. Now we get this mayhem and nonsense that coincides with stormgate and zerospace ads everywhere. I do hope it's not a coincidence and I hope I'm wrong.

It happens way more than one might think with consultants, contractors, businesses, even in gaming. One small example out of many is Pendragon many years ago screwed the dota community and made untold tons of cash with League of Legends. I won't go on a long rant but the information is out there-long story short, manager the owner of Dota forums ended up being a a consultant on riot and screwed over the dota community to get his riches. This is why for example if a lawyer consulted with your wife you plan to divorce, that lawyer cannot (sure as shit better not) consult with you because even if there isn't yet there is by definition the conflict of interest.

It's not usually this cartoonishly evil though. Lots of conflicts are interest subtle and insidious. A quote from some dude on reddit:

Suddenly Starcraft 2 is broken....well just come play our own game with simplified macro.



I completely agree here. I agree with a lot of what you said, I went a little off on my own about the conflict of interest. Sorry for going on such a long tirade.

On October 02 2023 19:02 Creager wrote:
Although I already know what the bottom line is, how exactly is it considered good practice to roll out a patch to production for one region and use this as a test bed? Sure, PTR activity level was probably too low, but then again, we have a 'TESTING' tab in competitive which could be hypothetically utilized instead of a balance mod, which would make testing MUCH more convenient.

I mean this whole process is pretty bonkers, especially since I'm not fond of this 'shake up the meta' thinking going on in SC2, get the game to a really good place and stop fiddling around with it, jesus.