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My personal view on some of the current matchup (non-mirror) from the pro gameplay:
+TvZ: The new Cyclone does one thing really well, that is shutting down the early Roach aggression from 2-base Zerg. Now Terran dont have to have Banshee nor Tanks to defend, just Cyclone and Bunker is good enough to shut down any attempt from Zerg. But other than that the Cyclone hasnt done much in the matchup, mass Cyclone Mech style is still fragile as hell and does not have enough DPS. Standard TvZ game are still the same imo, with the change on Banes (5 less HP AND less damage bonus vs light) are not noticeable but pretty sure in effect. Should they revert this change? I doubt it, unless the Zerg struggle more in ZvT in the coming months. I am still trying to figure out why Mech is no longer viable on the previous and this current map pool, seems like top Terran suddenly choose not to use them, or just once in a Bo7.
+PvZ: In general, I feel that Protoss has done slightly better against Zerg with a more variety of build opening, although the Stargate-Oracle opening is still popular. Immortal-Archon -Storm seems to be a very powerful timing push that can demolish Zerg if they dont get out enough Roach or tech into Lurker/BLord in time. Zerg has tried some Ling-Hydra timing to rely the Hydra upgrade timing, but I havent seen lots of success from that, Roach-Ling-Bane is still the way to go in mid-game from Zerg.
+PvT: Cyclone hasnt done much in this matchup except for the 2-factory all-in version, they get countered by Voidray/Immortal with Shield Battery quite easily. It seems that the nerf on Raven is effective as we see less of the 1-Raven push from Terran against Colossi build. Raven is now being made but as harassment tool with Turret against non-SG opening. The standard 1-base push and 2-base push from Terran on Protoss still stay the same, with the result being mixed depending on whether Protoss can get up enough defense and units at that moment. The nerf on Ghost EMP radius is not very noticeable, but the nerf on Disruptor seems to be effective as I have not seen lots of game where Protoss stacking up their Disruptor count. Instead, Protoss stick with Gateway/Colossi/Immortal or Gateway/Archon/Storm and try to kill the Terran before they get enough Libs out.
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Cyclone unfortunately didn't seem to fix Mech's struggle to hold a 3rd vs Blink Stalkers in TvP, however it certainly is easier with the newer Cyclone than the old Cyclone, and it seems like you can open with Mech at high GM KR level much more easily now thanks to the Cyclone, so I guess it did improve things.
However, Cyclone affects TvP early game (proxies etc.), so we should monitor that if it makes Protoss struggle even more early game.
I think people probably liked TvZ more when it was how it was in WoL/HotS, with it feeling like the Zerg was the one trying to survive neverending Terran harassment, and the Terran knowing it has to keep pressuring to stop Zerg from exploding economically. Now it seems reversed, Zerg explodes in economy no matter what so Terran is forced to just try to absorb the swarm over and over. I like watching those games too, but it does feel maybe less dynamic and more 1-dimensional.
Disruptor supply nerf seemed unnecessary. I think the right way to nerf them to scale worse in deathballs is to just increase their collission size (which they did a little, that was good because they were TINY before). They didn't need both the collission size nerf and the supply nerf. Keep the supply at 3, that way Protoss can afford to have 1-2 more Disruptors around the map to zone areas or defend bases. We only need to nerf specifically when you have 8-10 Disruptors in a deathball.
I think banelings not 1 shotting probes was very good because it targetted Protoss unfairly and was too punishing. However I think the +5 HP nerf was also warranted just because the Baneling still has a very unique and strong feature in that it is super supply efficient. The baneling allows a player with much superior economy to force a fight/trade and to end the game sooner. It's very "swarmy". However, it shouldn't be so core in so many other situations, Zerg has so many other cool units and tools, baneling shouldn't feel as much as a go-to as it was. Also, it wasn't good to make it so easy for a player with superior economy or a bit ahead in the game to be able to halt the opponent's potential growth and force the game to end sooner. It's better to have games be more back and forth and have more comeback potential, SC2 is already very fast paced and punishing compared to BW for example.
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On November 15 2023 13:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I think banelings not 1 shotting probes was very good because it targetted Protoss unfairly and was too punishing.
what about Wm drop, isn't it too punishing for toss?
in general i find it strange that bane/disruptor get nerf and wm stays unchanged or gets small buff.
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On November 15 2023 18:20 jack_less wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2023 13:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I think banelings not 1 shotting probes was very good because it targetted Protoss unfairly and was too punishing. what about Wm drop, isn't it too punishing for toss? in general i find it strange that bane/disruptor get nerf and wm stays unchanged or gets small buff.
At the highest level, the Widow Mine drop is easily countered by pulling workers and with good map vision. Usually a distraction is required for the Widow Mines to be successful.
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On November 16 2023 00:56 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2023 18:20 jack_less wrote:On November 15 2023 13:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I think banelings not 1 shotting probes was very good because it targetted Protoss unfairly and was too punishing. what about Wm drop, isn't it too punishing for toss? in general i find it strange that bane/disruptor get nerf and wm stays unchanged or gets small buff. At the highest level, the Widow Mine drop is easily countered by pulling workers and with good map vision. Usually a distraction is required for the Widow Mines to be successful.
If easily countered meant not losing anything that would be fine, but it isn't really the case.
"Oh, I only got one probe each with my two widow Mines. Guess I'm down 50 minerals and 50 gas."
Except the probe pull cuts into that making it something that almost always trades even, with the potential to outright win the game, without much investment. (Both from a build standpoint as well as APM).
A similar brood war example is an arbiter recall in pvt. To defend this a Terran needs to successfully build turrets and lay Mines, probably netting close to 80 actions (much more if you eve consider T bringing some of their army.) On the other side the protoss has to devote about 6 actions to perform the recall.
Both of these things can pretty much outright win a game, yet the defense required to stop them is just insane
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On November 16 2023 02:09 Agh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2023 00:56 geokilla wrote:On November 15 2023 18:20 jack_less wrote:On November 15 2023 13:15 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
I think banelings not 1 shotting probes was very good because it targetted Protoss unfairly and was too punishing. what about Wm drop, isn't it too punishing for toss? in general i find it strange that bane/disruptor get nerf and wm stays unchanged or gets small buff. At the highest level, the Widow Mine drop is easily countered by pulling workers and with good map vision. Usually a distraction is required for the Widow Mines to be successful. If easily countered meant not losing anything that would be fine, but it isn't really the case. "Oh, I only got one probe each with my two widow Mines. Guess I'm down 50 minerals and 50 gas." Except the probe pull cuts into that making it something that almost always trades even, with the potential to outright win the game, without much investment. (Both from a build standpoint as well as APM). A similar brood war example is an arbiter recall in pvt. To defend this a Terran needs to successfully build turrets and lay Mines, probably netting close to 80 actions (much more if you eve consider T bringing some of their army.) On the other side the protoss has to devote about 6 actions to perform the recall. Both of these things can pretty much outright win a game, yet the defense required to stop them is just insane
Don't forget the counter to Widow Mines is pretty strong. How many times have we seen Terrains lose to something like Blink Stalkers because the Widow Mine drop was successfully defended? Also how would you nerf the drop without it affecting other aspects of the game? Like using it against Zealots or Ling-Bane? Sightly reduced damage? If so, then maybe get rid of the friendly fire considering Colossi and Banes don't do friendly fire either. Though that would affect the Phoenix mine drag.
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The Mine should be invisible at all times while burrowed. The Sentinel Missile should deal 145+35 vs Mechanical and the AoE should be 35 damage.
Now a well placed Mine will successfully kill Phoenix, Medivacs and Banshees. They will kill Roaches unless the Zerg is quick enough to Burrow or Morph the Roach in response.
They do what they need to do vs. Ling/Banes.
Your Widow mine drop would be 3 Widow Mines and probably a Hellion or 2x Marines. Also you could combine it with the opening Reaper to kill of the 5 hp Workers.
The only worrying fact is that they don't pwn Zealots, Adepts and Archons as badly. But to me this would be a great change for the game, Protoss really need buffs in this matchup. And it's not like the anti Shields is a unique role that Widow Mines give access to. There is the Ghost for this function. Protoss-Hater-Mines have been a thing for too damned long!
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On November 16 2023 17:10 ejozl wrote:
The Mine should be invisible at all times while burrowed. The Sentinel Missile should deal 145+35 vs Mechanical and the AoE should be 35 damage.
Now a well placed Mine will successfully kill Phoenix, Medivacs and Banshees. They will kill Roaches unless the Zerg is quick enough to Burrow or Morph the Roach in response.
They do what they need to do vs. Ling/Banes.
Your Widow mine drop would be 3 Widow Mines and probably a Hellion or 2x Marines. Also you could combine it with the opening Reaper to kill of the 5 hp Workers.
The only worrying fact is that they don't pwn Zealots, Adepts and Archons as badly. But to me this would be a great change for the game, Protoss really need buffs in this matchup. And it's not like the anti Shields is a unique role that Widow Mines give access to. There is the Ghost for this function. Protoss-Hater-Mines have been a thing for too damned long!
Terran's have gotten special treatment for years and with Zerg they liked to turn a blind eye when things were blatantly overpowered ( just look at how much money zerg pro gamers made from the Brood Lord Infestor era or the swarmhost era etc it was a disaster and Zerg pro's still defended it, appalling.
Flip it over to Protoss and the nerf hammer would come like lightning comparatively to Terran or Zerg nerfs( Don't believe
me go back in patchnotes and compare those era's and you can see it for yourself.)
Vikings increased damage vs mechanical ONLY to help against Protoss is also another great example of targeted buffs purely against Protoss that was never reverted.
Or other sneak buffs they added that was never required ( like only need armory for stealth widom mines no research required) which just aligns with the very easy straight forward playstyle of Terran which is anything you invest in to harass the enemy with you will have to construct in order to build your main composition in a clean macro build anyway so the investment is minimal and the reward is potentially huge. There is a nice flow in how Zerg and Terran develop ,
Protoss has a very clunky path into macro game if you choose to harass or pressure your opponent and you are forced to deal heavy damage for it to be worth it.
If you don't understand what I mean an example is if Protoss invests in Oracles or DT's or for example an adept harass into macro build Protoss MUST do massive damage or be behind, Zergs and Terrans can play macro with light harass options that can deal game ending damage should they succeed and if failed it's not that big of a deal. (Some damage is almost a given anyway like widomine drops are worth it so long as they kill 1 probe each and Protoss has to pull workers which hurts more then people realize)
Protoss does not have this option, everything with Protoss is fickle and on a knives edge you are always on the tipping point unlike Terran or Zerg who are way more durable and forgiving.
People always said Protoss is the easiest race to play, this is only true up until you reach a level where people don't die to the bullshit build orders anymore and you gotta play legit.
At Pro level you gotta play flawless as a Protoss and it is without doubt the most unforgiving race of the three
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On November 15 2023 13:12 tigera6 wrote:
My personal view on some of the current matchup (non-mirror) from the pro gameplay:
+TvZ: The new Cyclone does one thing really well, that is shutting down the early Roach aggression from 2-base Zerg. Now Terran dont have to have Banshee nor Tanks to defend, just Cyclone and Bunker is good enough to shut down any attempt from Zerg. But other than that the Cyclone hasnt done much in the matchup, mass Cyclone Mech style is still fragile as hell and does not have enough DPS. Standard TvZ game are still the same imo, with the change on Banes (5 less HP AND less damage bonus vs light) are not noticeable but pretty sure in effect. Should they revert this change? I doubt it, unless the Zerg struggle more in ZvT in the coming months. I am still trying to figure out why Mech is no longer viable on the previous and this current map pool, seems like top Terran suddenly choose not to use them, or just once in a Bo7.
+PvZ: In general, I feel that Protoss has done slightly better against Zerg with a more variety of build opening, although the Stargate-Oracle opening is still popular. Immortal-Archon -Storm seems to be a very powerful timing push that can demolish Zerg if they dont get out enough Roach or tech into Lurker/BLord in time. Zerg has tried some Ling-Hydra timing to rely the Hydra upgrade timing, but I havent seen lots of success from that, Roach-Ling-Bane is still the way to go in mid-game from Zerg.
+PvT: Cyclone hasnt done much in this matchup except for the 2-factory all-in version, they get countered by Voidray/Immortal with Shield Battery quite easily. It seems that the nerf on Raven is effective as we see less of the 1-Raven push from Terran against Colossi build. Raven is now being made but as harassment tool with Turret against non-SG opening. The standard 1-base push and 2-base push from Terran on Protoss still stay the same, with the result being mixed depending on whether Protoss can get up enough defense and units at that moment. The nerf on Ghost EMP radius is not very noticeable, but the nerf on Disruptor seems to be effective as I have not seen lots of game where Protoss stacking up their Disruptor count. Instead, Protoss stick with Gateway/Colossi/Immortal or Gateway/Archon/Storm and try to kill the Terran before they get enough Libs out.
Super curious if you have some example top level games in pvz or pvt where p goes storm. Somehow most of the games i watch still have a strong preference for robo-tech.
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Northern Ireland24250 Posts
On November 16 2023 17:57 Drahkn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2023 17:10 ejozl wrote:
The Mine should be invisible at all times while burrowed. The Sentinel Missile should deal 145+35 vs Mechanical and the AoE should be 35 damage.
Now a well placed Mine will successfully kill Phoenix, Medivacs and Banshees. They will kill Roaches unless the Zerg is quick enough to Burrow or Morph the Roach in response.
They do what they need to do vs. Ling/Banes.
Your Widow mine drop would be 3 Widow Mines and probably a Hellion or 2x Marines. Also you could combine it with the opening Reaper to kill of the 5 hp Workers.
The only worrying fact is that they don't pwn Zealots, Adepts and Archons as badly. But to me this would be a great change for the game, Protoss really need buffs in this matchup. And it's not like the anti Shields is a unique role that Widow Mines give access to. There is the Ghost for this function. Protoss-Hater-Mines have been a thing for too damned long! Terran's have gotten special treatment for years and with Zerg they liked to turn a blind eye when things were blatantly overpowered ( just look at how much money zerg pro gamers made from the Brood Lord Infestor era or the swarmhost era etc it was a disaster and Zerg pro's still defended it, appalling. Flip it over to Protoss and the nerf hammer would come like lightning comparatively to Terran or Zerg nerfs( Don't believe me go back in patchnotes and compare those era's and you can see it for yourself.) Vikings increased damage vs mechanical ONLY to help against Protoss is also another great example of targeted buffs purely against Protoss that was never reverted. Or other sneak buffs they added that was never required ( like only need armory for stealth widom mines no research required) which just aligns with the very easy straight forward playstyle of Terran which is anything you invest in to harass the enemy with you will have to construct in order to build your main composition in a clean macro build anyway so the investment is minimal and the reward is potentially huge. There is a nice flow in how Zerg and Terran develop , Protoss has a very clunky path into macro game if you choose to harass or pressure your opponent and you are forced to deal heavy damage for it to be worth it. If you don't understand what I mean an example is if Protoss invests in Oracles or DT's or for example an adept harass into macro build Protoss MUST do massive damage or be behind, Zergs and Terrans can play macro with light harass options that can deal game ending damage should they succeed and if failed it's not that big of a deal. (Some damage is almost a given anyway like widomine drops are worth it so long as they kill 1 probe each and Protoss has to pull workers which hurts more then people realize) Protoss does not have this option, everything with Protoss is fickle and on a knives edge you are always on the tipping point unlike Terran or Zerg who are way more durable and forgiving. People always said Protoss is the easiest race to play, this is only true up until you reach a level where people don't die to the bullshit build orders anymore and you gotta play legit. At Pro level you gotta play flawless as a Protoss and it is without doubt the most unforgiving race of the three
Largely agreed that a bunch of Toss harassment openers don’t naturally flow into a macro setup and require doing a decent chunk of damage
Aren’t Zerg in the same kind of boat there though? At least as openers go. In mitigation I guess for Zerg trying to do early damage is something you do for variety, to throw an opponent off as Zerg tends to prosper in sitting back and powering
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Spoilers for ESL Europe:
+ Show Spoiler +
In the several or so ESL Europe, he has gotten streamrolled by either Zerg and Terran (including players like MarineLord and Lambo lol)
Just pointing this out for all the people who try to use MaxPax as a red herring.
Maxpax not participating in offline tournaments is completely irrelevant to everything when he cannot even win online regionals. This is not a knock against MaxPax. If his race was viable he wouldn't be in this position.
The top of the protoss race is just screwed. It's been that way since Stats, Zest, and Trap were peaking in LotV and there are no two ways around it.
On November 14 2023 10:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2023 07:52 NoMacroNoHonour wrote:On November 14 2023 03:31 TaKeTV wrote:
Protoss has the worst depth of individual player skill in 2023.
Trap is retired
Zest is retired
Stats came back but isn't anywhere near his old form
MaxPax only attends online
Classic and Creator are decent
herO has very shaky or poor performance since a long time now
Its really not that hard to see. Saying that Protoss is weak and that results in poor performance is just false. If you cloned MaxPax 5x, tournaments would look vastly different. Your post would make at least some sense if: -Stats, Trap, Zest, and Classic collectively won anything bigger than a Super Tournament after MSC was removed. But instead all they did was win smaller premier tournaments once in a while, while getting curb stomped by Terran/Zerg in the big time tournaments in terms of prestige and/or prize money that we tend to consider the pinnacle of Starcraft 2 play (Blizzcon, Katowice, Code S). Funnily enough, the sole Protoss player that one time managed overcome these odds and go on a miracle run is the guy you think is the shakiest, herO. Funny how that works. -MaxPax actually won big, even in terms of online events. Where are his impressive tournament wins even online? Claiming that Protoss doesn’t win tournaments because MaxPax only plays online is ridiculous. -And herO’s “very shaky or poor performance” didn’t start immediately after the unwarranted nerf to Protoss (overcharge nerf, Disruptor nerf, Carrier nerf, etc)….You know, the same state of the game in which a player like Oliviera could do something that Protoss legends have been unable to do for 6 years. When Hurricane beats Rogue once in a ST, Protoss timings are too OP and they are nerfed. When Oliviera makes a dream run knocking out the best P/Z players in the world in the biggest tournament of the year to become world champion, we just chalk it up to Terran "depth of talent" - one must look at the context of everything. Protoss is not treated the same way as T/Z, and it's been that way for several years, and the consequences have been significant in terms of tournament performance. By the way if you cloned MaxPax (who is by all metrics worse than herO at actually winning) 5x, Protoss tournament performance would still be weak, just like it was when in-form Stats, Zest, Classic, and Trap were the top of the race and still unable to do anything but win a code s here and there or something. And, no offense to MaxPax, because he’s a hell of a player, but he is not in the same league as Stats, Zest, in-form Classic, and Trap were, or herO is now. It's also easy to write off a player like Creator as merely "decent" when he plays a race as unforgiving at their level of play as Protoss - the man is a recent GSL finalist Great counterarguments Creator is not at all just decent. Sure he has trouble staying calm sometimes and chokes sometimes, but let's look at all the games where he doesn't do that. The dude shows so many impressive feats in games. Remember when he took 2 games off Rogue in the finals? And he was close to taking a 3rd game as well if he killed that proxy hatch that had like 10 HP left. Even players like Trap wouldn't be expected to necessarily be able to take 2 games off of Rogue in a Code S Bo7 Finals. Classic is also very solid recently, and was one of the top Protoss of LotV. Zerg is known to have been overpowered around 2019, or at least the strongest race for much of LotV. So clearly, it's safe to say that Protoss has been weak. You could say Terran has been weak as well, if not for the recent 2 patches making PvT hard for Protoss (battery nerf without compensating for it along with interference matrix timing buffs). Don't forget that sOs only retired in 2021. The guy who won 3 world championships during HotS. Something is wrong with Protoss in LotV, and it's easy to see. Look at how many games GSL players lose to a ling flood, whether they misplace their adept/zealot at the wall by a pixel, or when they place it correctly but they glitch the lings past by spam clicking. If such a small mistake gets punished by losing a game, you have yourself a fragile and very punishing race. If it leads to even just a few pros losing games a year, that's too much already.
Excellent points.
Speaking of ling floods, one of the most disgusting things I've seen in LotV was the 2018 Blizzcon Finals. Serral literally got a free win because of the ling flood nonsense you mentioned. A free win against the "Shieild of Aiur" "Aegis of Korea" - the greatest defensive Protoss in the history of the game. Stats outplayed Serral that entire series but sadly for Stats the Infested Terrans hadnt been removed yet.
Stats had been playing like a lunatic during that stretch. He was mechanically inferior to nobody. His race prevented him from winning a single Code S/Blizzcon/IEM during that stretch. It's not unsurprising that he was the last Protoss to win a Code S/anything big until herO did the impossible.
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I think Colossi having 10 range was the buff/bug that Protoss needed. Let's bring it back and give Colossi a bit more base damage against armoured unit and then slightly less against light units.
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On November 19 2023 04:09 NoMacroNoHonour wrote:
when he cannot even win online regionals.
His online regionals have Clem, Serral and Reynor, who would be his main opponents in an offline event as well. Under the current patch which is the only relevant one, he lost to Showtime (underperformance but in PvP) and Clem (should happen 50% of the time). Seems fine.
I think protoss is probably still the weakest race in this patch, but it's way closer than in the last patch. That's a good thing. Someone should write that somewhere so it'll be me this time.
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Love that they finally changed up the maps of 2v2.
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I think the problem still remains that Protoss can't really poke vs mid-lategame terran other than disruptor balls, which are very hit or miss and now fairly supply inefficient to boot. It's the reason libs+ghosts shit so hard on toss, toss needs to hard commit for AA because robo units don't shoot up and stargate is supply but not cost efficient and can get bullied fairly easily until massed (vipers/vikings).
In that regard making tempests more mobile imo was the right move, but these things are still really fucking expensive and can get run down pretty easily. Stalkers are just not enough of a threat to air and toss unlike T and Z can't just put down a few AA turrets for mins to solve possible air problems. I still think they should either reduce the cost of fleet beacons/stargates or buff P's aa (phoenix range/stalker bonus (range) vs air), but I get that the former opens up more cheese options.
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On November 19 2023 04:36 geokilla wrote:
I think Colossi having 10 range was the buff/bug that Protoss needed. Let's bring it back and give Colossi a bit more base damage against armoured unit and then slightly less against light units.
Instead of 10 (+5 vs Light) (x2), adjusting it even just to 11 (+3 vs Light) (x2) might feel noticeably better and be enough.
Also Colossi having 10 range gives Protoss a pretty decent tool vs Lurkers without needing Fleet Beacon tech. Disruptors work too yes but they only have 1 shot. A 10 range Colossus can slowly poke at a Lurker line and force them to pull back. They can still get hit by lurkers, but since Colossus naturally attack in an arc and are so big and high HP, it takes a while for lurkers to kill Colossus. With its current 9 range even, a couple colossus is already surprisingly effective at dealing with a few Lurkers especially since they tend to be burrowed in an arc, which doesn't have additional effect vs Colossus. Also I think with 10 range it may be possible for Colossus to shoot and then dodge backwards.
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Tbh I think PvZ is fine. It wasn't nearly as imbalanced as PvT before the patch and the patch was a noticeable buff for P in PvZ. I don't think P needs targeted buffs for PvZ, at least not until the patch settled a bit.
Not sure that applies to PvT because of how imbalanced it was and the worst part of it arguably got worse with the disruptor nerfs. The nerfs to Raven and slight nerf to ghosts may be enough to make P more deadly in the early and midgame which may swing the matchup back, but I I haven't seen enough to really judge where it's at.
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The balance is actually pretty good atm, with T>P>Z. But the big problem is that Protoss hasn't been favoured at the top level since HotS, which is honestly disgraceful. Protoss is by far the hardest race and it needs to be adressed.
Protoss cannot win by playing straight up anymore, they used to be able to do this in HotS by playing very precise and gettng into a surperior army composition. These days Protoss have the weakest army composition, with incredible supply inefficiency. Protoss could with the power of Pylon Overcharge/Shield Battery and Shield Battery Overcharge win with succesful greed that was very hard to punish, benefitting the Protoss with the ultimate late game army composition much sooner, giving a huge window for Protoss to take the win/overwhelming lead.
Protoss used to be able to cheese and thereby orchestrate the perfect bo7/bo5 to outwitt the other races. Now Shield Battery, Cannon Rushes, early Zealots, Robo/Star Gate proxies stink.
Protoss cannot greed, cheese or play straight up without lowering their chances. It is like playing chess having only pawns, it is required that the the opponent play like a child. But of course they won't, so they just run circles around the Protoss. The only advantage I see that Protoss have atm, is that the action economy favours them. So by creating dilemmas to solve for the opponent, so much so that they cannot keep up, is the best shot the Protoss will have. And we see this quite a bit, but again, even here Protoss have taken a hit, with the Disruptor nerfs.
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EPT
