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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On September 25 2023 00:06 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2023 18:05 Agh wrote:On September 23 2023 18:23 Balnazza wrote:
I hate Mines and Libs with a passion, but I really doubt that in the late-stages of the games we are in it is wise to remove units from the game, especially if you want to remove three to six at once. That just limits options and makes the game less entertaining Why would it be hard to doubt when your statement highlights the issue? Without players there isn't really a product to "watch" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The important part is that *I* hate libs and mines. I also love Lurker, which you apparently dislike...and so on. Not to mention that removing these units would force you to buff other units to compensate and honestly, I don't think people need more reasons to throw marines and zerglings at each other
It’s just a bloody unforgiving game, part of why it’s such a great watch when these gods amongst men are playing it rather than us mere mortals
I just don’t think there’s a particularly big gap between units people dislike for being particularly brutally punishing like mines or disruptors, and everything else.
When forcefields were a larger crutch for Protoss, look away and your T opponent stims in, or your Zerg pounces and you’re equally as dead.
Ghosts pop out the fog and EMP your temps, good luck!
Plus similar interactions if you’re a T/Z player too obviously
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On September 25 2023 00:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2023 00:06 Balnazza wrote:On September 24 2023 18:05 Agh wrote:On September 23 2023 18:23 Balnazza wrote:
I hate Mines and Libs with a passion, but I really doubt that in the late-stages of the games we are in it is wise to remove units from the game, especially if you want to remove three to six at once. That just limits options and makes the game less entertaining Why would it be hard to doubt when your statement highlights the issue? Without players there isn't really a product to "watch" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The important part is that *I* hate libs and mines. I also love Lurker, which you apparently dislike...and so on. Not to mention that removing these units would force you to buff other units to compensate and honestly, I don't think people need more reasons to throw marines and zerglings at each other It’s just a bloody unforgiving game, part of why it’s such a great watch when these gods amongst men are playing it rather than us mere mortals I just don’t think there’s a particularly big gap between units people dislike for being particularly brutally punishing like mines or disruptors, and everything else. When forcefields were a larger crutch for Protoss, look away and your T opponent stims in, or your Zerg pounces and you’re equally as dead. Ghosts pop out the fog and EMP your temps, good luck! Plus similar interactions if you’re a T/Z player too obviously
In one of the first GSLs, Terran bio sitting in Protoss's natural with the threat of stimming and running up the ramp when the Terran player felt it was a good moment and the Protoss player wasn't looking featured in almost every game, and a lot of Protoss players just died to "had to move the camera to place a building, and that was the moment Terran went for it." It was a pretty bad meta, imo.
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On September 23 2023 07:00 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2023 06:50 QOGQOG wrote:On September 23 2023 06:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 23 2023 00:22 Nebuchad wrote:On September 22 2023 23:36 Balnazza wrote:On September 22 2023 23:11 Nebuchad wrote:On September 22 2023 23:00 Balnazza wrote:
Hey Balnazza remember before the last patch that nerfed protoss, when herO was competitive with the heavy hitters and winning tournaments? How have you determined that the 40m headstart is not what the other two races received in that last patch that nerfed protoss?
herO has won two Major tournaments on this patch and reached Top 4 at Kattowice. Almost like he is the best protoss in the world, but plays a bit too inconsistent to compete with the big 3...weird. Damn do you reckon maybe the fact that in the current state of the game mistakes as protoss cost you the game almost immediately while it is much more realistic to recover from a mistake as terran or zerg plays a part into how consistent players manage to be? So four month ago herO made less mistakes? What happened four months ago? herO won his last tournament four month ago, so apparently the balance changed since then, otherwise he would have kept winning? Since you are that sure that the current state of the game is entirely balance-dependant and has nothing to do with skill? Truly a devastating rhetorical question in the war against the straw man. Okay, sorry, I will stop using arguments and switch to the apparently correct way of discussing this: So, uh, Protoss is balanced, because it really feels that way. But like, totally! Better? Convinced?
Well, it's not less convincing than "One Protoss player did well in one tournament, checkmate."
On September 25 2023 00:44 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2023 00:06 Balnazza wrote:On September 24 2023 18:05 Agh wrote:On September 23 2023 18:23 Balnazza wrote:
I hate Mines and Libs with a passion, but I really doubt that in the late-stages of the games we are in it is wise to remove units from the game, especially if you want to remove three to six at once. That just limits options and makes the game less entertaining Why would it be hard to doubt when your statement highlights the issue? Without players there isn't really a product to "watch" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ The important part is that *I* hate libs and mines. I also love Lurker, which you apparently dislike...and so on. Not to mention that removing these units would force you to buff other units to compensate and honestly, I don't think people need more reasons to throw marines and zerglings at each other It’s just a bloody unforgiving game, part of why it’s such a great watch when these gods amongst men are playing it rather than us mere mortals I just don’t think there’s a particularly big gap between units people dislike for being particularly brutally punishing like mines or disruptors, and everything else. When forcefields were a larger crutch for Protoss, look away and your T opponent stims in, or your Zerg pounces and you’re equally as dead. Ghosts pop out the fog and EMP your temps, good luck! Plus similar interactions if you’re a T/Z player too obviously
I agree focusing on which units are "most devastating" is a bad idea. But I do think it's worth looking at when those devastating units come out and how much they cost to the person using them. For example, an early couple of Banelings or Widow Mines in a mineral line can end a game but also cost relatively little. Whereas Protoss is unlikely to get the same level of damage without something that's borderline all-in. Like, Oracles are a larger investment and also less likely to do anything devastating.
Lategame, I don't really have any problem with units like Disruptors, Seige Tanks, or Lurkers devastating the unwary. That's what they're for.
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On September 25 2023 06:41 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2023 07:00 Balnazza wrote:On September 23 2023 06:50 QOGQOG wrote:On September 23 2023 06:26 Balnazza wrote:On September 23 2023 00:22 Nebuchad wrote:On September 22 2023 23:36 Balnazza wrote:On September 22 2023 23:11 Nebuchad wrote:On September 22 2023 23:00 Balnazza wrote:
Hey Balnazza remember before the last patch that nerfed protoss, when herO was competitive with the heavy hitters and winning tournaments? How have you determined that the 40m headstart is not what the other two races received in that last patch that nerfed protoss?
herO has won two Major tournaments on this patch and reached Top 4 at Kattowice. Almost like he is the best protoss in the world, but plays a bit too inconsistent to compete with the big 3...weird. Damn do you reckon maybe the fact that in the current state of the game mistakes as protoss cost you the game almost immediately while it is much more realistic to recover from a mistake as terran or zerg plays a part into how consistent players manage to be? So four month ago herO made less mistakes? What happened four months ago? herO won his last tournament four month ago, so apparently the balance changed since then, otherwise he would have kept winning? Since you are that sure that the current state of the game is entirely balance-dependant and has nothing to do with skill? Truly a devastating rhetorical question in the war against the straw man. Okay, sorry, I will stop using arguments and switch to the apparently correct way of discussing this: So, uh, Protoss is balanced, because it really feels that way. But like, totally! Better? Convinced? Well, it's not less convincing than "One Protoss player did well in one tournament, checkmate."
That wasn't even remotely my argument, but sure 
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It's fuckin not though. Just logged onto "5.0.12" on NA and tried to build some cyclones without an addon. That went well....
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Is the patch on EU? Why did I have to update to 5.0.12 to log onto NA? Kinda pissed tbh
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On September 29 2023 05:42 jimminy_kriket wrote:
Is the patch on EU? Why did I have to update to 5.0.12 to log onto NA? Kinda pissed tbh
Seems live now if we can trust Rottis chat
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If there's a broken unit in the game after every video on the patch literally didn't mention the unit because it was so obviously broken that it wouldn't make it to the game I'm going to have a laugh
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game's completely broken now, mass hydra rolls over everything
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On September 29 2023 10:34 renaissanceMAN wrote:
game's completely broken now, mass hydra rolls over everything
How?
Patch didn't change buff the hydralisk in terms of raw stats at all.
Do you mean the timing of hydra attacks?
Or like the disruptor nerf affected protoss counter to hydralisks?
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On September 29 2023 10:34 renaissanceMAN wrote:
game's completely broken now, mass hydra rolls over everything
even against Mass Cyclone?
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Yeah I really don't like the patch, wish they had just left the game as it is like BW, instead of making big weird changes just for the sake of making changes
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France12911 Posts
So how good is it?
Does that mean tournaments from today on will use the infamous new patch?
Hopefully they can fix the game quickly since it seems broken
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weeks of "stay calm, these are just just experimental changes" passed, now this abomination of a patch goes live? what a nightmare
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On September 29 2023 10:34 renaissanceMAN wrote:
game's completely broken now, mass hydra rolls over everything
lol they are the same, upgrade time is 14 sec shorter which means if you doesnt use them as a timing it changes nothing
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Balance council trying to kill sc2 before their own RTS gets released, understandable
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On September 29 2023 16:09 Tsubbi wrote:
weeks of "stay calm, these are just just experimental changes" passed, now this abomination of a patch goes live? what a nightmare
People were naive to expect any different.
Whoever is calling the shots now had their minds made up that they wanted to shake up the game, even if it caused a ton of balance issues and there wasn't going to be any stopping them.
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This was kind of my take on the entire situation. I would have preferred a stable moderately balanced patch as the "final patch" obviously I don't think this will be the final patch. I still worry that any replayability down the line will be hurt if we are left on a busted patch at the end of Lotv.
I feel the same way about how WoL ended. Perma busted on the bl/Infestor patch.
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EPT
