On January 24 2023 07:49 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah letting pros handle patches is just a bad idea, they clearly have a conflict of interest regarding balancing the game which results in the race that has the most influential community members getting all the buffs. Shameful
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment
So you think if Protoss would win 50% of tournaments they wouldn't be getting nerfed?
Reynor mentioned this in his stream the other day - to him this patch is more about breathing life back into the game, not about making drastic game altering changes.
A Zerg player happy about the patch? I'm so surprised.
Won't answer to the mental gymnastics of you trying to argue one race winning 50% of tournaments is fine. We both know you'd be up in arms about it if your race was on the other side.
I don't know how you can argue about tournament winners when serral has won 89 of the 201 tournaments he's even participated in.
On January 24 2023 07:49 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah letting pros handle patches is just a bad idea, they clearly have a conflict of interest regarding balancing the game which results in the race that has the most influential community members getting all the buffs. Shameful
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment
So you think if Protoss would win 50% of tournaments they wouldn't be getting nerfed?
Reynor mentioned this in his stream the other day - to him this patch is more about breathing life back into the game, not about making drastic game altering changes.
A Zerg player happy about the patch? I'm so surprised.
Won't answer to the mental gymnastics of you trying to argue one race winning 50% of tournaments is fine. We both know you'd be up in arms about it if your race was on the other side.
I don't know how you can argue about tournament winners when serral has won 89 of the 201 tournaments he's even participated in.
On January 24 2023 07:49 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah letting pros handle patches is just a bad idea, they clearly have a conflict of interest regarding balancing the game which results in the race that has the most influential community members getting all the buffs. Shameful
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
"zerg is getting preferential treatment" is your opinion vs every professional gamer. It's pretty obvious whose opinion is more valuable.
Plenty of pros have said Zerg is getting preferential treatment at certain points. Inno, TY, Trap, Heromarine, uThermal, and even Rogue have all made statements suggesting Blizzard favors Zerg. Pretty sure Classic did shortly before his military service as well.
INnoVation proclaimed Zerg OP and is impossible to beat. INno had 85+% winrate in TvZ at the time. That's close to the opposite of "impossible to beat." TY has claimed both Zerg OP and Protoss OP. He himself chose replays to highlight these imbalances in SC2 shows, and the people there were poking holes in everything. Example: TY: Terran can't keep up economically. Others: You have 108 SCVs with oversaturation on every mining base and still producing SCVs. You also have a lot of resources in the bank with several spare Orbital Commands. Why not stop at 80 SCVs and make bigger army? TY: If I lose SCVs to harass I'll be behind. Others: You have a lot of CCs and a bank. TY: I guess... Trap made claims of Protoss being weak, won several tournaments and kept claiming Protoss is weak. Trap, INno and TY are among the worst individuals to name drop in this contexts. They have a history of hypocrisy in this topic.
Rogue is a genuine OP claimant. "Zerg seems strong so I applied myself and won."
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment
So you think if Protoss would win 50% of tournaments they wouldn't be getting nerfed?
Reynor mentioned this in his stream the other day - to him this patch is more about breathing life back into the game, not about making drastic game altering changes.
A Zerg player happy about the patch? I'm so surprised.
Won't answer to the mental gymnastics of you trying to argue one race winning 50% of tournaments is fine. We both know you'd be up in arms about it if your race was on the other side.
I don't know how you can argue about tournament winners when serral has won 89 of the 201 tournaments he's even participated in.
and Reynor and Dark and Rogue. Weird how when Zerg is dominating Zerg players are just better but it's different when another race dominates
No, not like reynor, dark, and rogue.
Serral's combined Premier/Major medal count is 66 top 3 finishes.
For comparison:
Rogue: 30 Dark: 41 Reynor: 33
Maru: 48 Byun: 33 Innovation: 41
herO: 32 neeb: 51 Zest: 39
I don't understand how you people can't just like... go to liquipedia yourselves and see that the game's pretty fucking balanced, and serral's an enormous outlier.
On January 24 2023 07:49 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah letting pros handle patches is just a bad idea, they clearly have a conflict of interest regarding balancing the game which results in the race that has the most influential community members getting all the buffs. Shameful
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
"zerg is getting preferential treatment" is your opinion vs every professional gamer. It's pretty obvious whose opinion is more valuable.
Plenty of pros have said Zerg is getting preferential treatment at certain points. Inno, TY, Trap, Heromarine, uThermal, and even Rogue have all made statements suggesting Blizzard favors Zerg. Pretty sure Classic did shortly before his military service as well.
INnoVation proclaimed Zerg OP and is impossible to beat. INno had 85+% winrate in TvZ at the time. That's close to the opposite of "impossible to beat." TY has claimed both Zerg OP and Protoss OP. He himself chose replays to highlight these imbalances in SC2 shows, and the people there were poking holes in everything. Example: TY: Terran can't keep up economically. Others: You have 108 SCVs with oversaturation on every mining base and still producing SCVs. You also have a lot of resources in the bank with several spare Orbital Commands. Why not stop at 80 SCVs and make bigger army? TY: If I lose SCVs to harass I'll be behind. Others: You have a lot of CCs and a bank. TY: I guess... Trap made claims of Protoss being weak, won several tournaments and kept claiming Protoss is weak. Trap, INno and TY are among the worst individuals to name drop in this contexts. They have a history of hypocrisy in this topic.
Rogue is a genuine OP claimant. "Zerg seems strong so I applied myself and won."
I could go claim by claim and argue about why I disagree and try to justify the pros statements but ultimately you are in a way correct. Every pro is biased and inclined to believe they aren't the problem. Whether they are winning too much or too little. Hence why pros probably shouldn't be involved in balance and balance patches should be based purely on attempting to produce the most possible variety and interesting gameplay/results in high level tournaments. Zergs winning 9 world championships in a row isn't interesting.
On January 24 2023 07:49 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah letting pros handle patches is just a bad idea, they clearly have a conflict of interest regarding balancing the game which results in the race that has the most influential community members getting all the buffs. Shameful
Protoss has the most players in the balance discord by far and every change is voted on. Every player from the Dreamhack regionals and GSL is in the balance discord (or invited and declined) and thus protoss has the most representation.
So yeah there's no zerg cabal.
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
"zerg is getting preferential treatment" is your opinion vs every professional gamer. It's pretty obvious whose opinion is more valuable.
Plenty of pros have said Zerg is getting preferential treatment at certain points. Inno, TY, Trap, Heromarine, uThermal, and even Rogue have all made statements suggesting Blizzard favors Zerg. Pretty sure Classic did shortly before his military service as well.
INnoVation proclaimed Zerg OP and is impossible to beat. INno had 85+% winrate in TvZ at the time. That's close to the opposite of "impossible to beat." TY has claimed both Zerg OP and Protoss OP. He himself chose replays to highlight these imbalances in SC2 shows, and the people there were poking holes in everything. Example: TY: Terran can't keep up economically. Others: You have 108 SCVs with oversaturation on every mining base and still producing SCVs. You also have a lot of resources in the bank with several spare Orbital Commands. Why not stop at 80 SCVs and make bigger army? TY: If I lose SCVs to harass I'll be behind. Others: You have a lot of CCs and a bank. TY: I guess... Trap made claims of Protoss being weak, won several tournaments and kept claiming Protoss is weak. Trap, INno and TY are among the worst individuals to name drop in this contexts. They have a history of hypocrisy in this topic.
Rogue is a genuine OP claimant. "Zerg seems strong so I applied myself and won."
Love this, you just said unironically what I said ironically
Ahh that are not the players he meant. He just meant the objective and unbiased players like Lambo and Scarlett, only their opinion should be considered as opposed to biased terran players
so predictable. You say we should listen to pros but if the pros have a different opinion than you you say their opinion doesn't count because they're biased. But the pros who have the same opinion as you are of course unbiased. Also your argumentation makes absolutely zero sense. So if Fruitdealer said Zerg is weak after winning the first GSL his opinion would be invalid because he just won?
Can we all agree that world championships are a culmination of the season, and every player gives their all to win it because of the huge prize for 1st place? You can win it and "cruise" next year more or less in terms of winnings. Stakes cannot get any higher. They're at least 5x times higher than any other tournament.
And somehow last 8 times it was always Zerg who won it. Your "enormous outlier" Serral won only 2 of them, other 6 were won by 4 different other Zergs.
On January 25 2023 22:27 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now? In 2019 there was one super tournament in which Protoss was doing really well and Protoss got immediately nerfed. Zerg has been dominating for 5 years and have never really been nerfed for it. All the nerfs they have received have either been counter-acted by buffs / nerfs to the other races or were extremely inconsequential. And now they are pushing a very Zerg favored patch 2 weeks before IEM Katowice, can you imagine that happening for Terran or Protoss? Honestly, I don't know what's the reason for this, if Zergs have conspired to get favorable balance, if certain decision-makers at Blizzard like Zerg, if they want Serral and Reynor to perform well or if Terrans and Protoss players are just too polite to vocally voice their opinion. However it's so clear that Zerg is getting preferential treatment by the balance team that I honestly think you are just arguing in bad faith if you try to deny this.
Answer my question:
I mean, can you really with a straight face say Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment by the balance team and that for a long time now?
I know it's a classic to attack the person instead of the argument when you have no arguments left
Zerg isn't getting preferential treatment
So you think if Protoss would win 50% of tournaments they wouldn't be getting nerfed?
Reynor mentioned this in his stream the other day - to him this patch is more about breathing life back into the game, not about making drastic game altering changes.
A Zerg player happy about the patch? I'm so surprised.
Won't answer to the mental gymnastics of you trying to argue one race winning 50% of tournaments is fine. We both know you'd be up in arms about it if your race was on the other side.
I don't know how you can argue about tournament winners when serral has won 89 of the 201 tournaments he's even participated in.
and Reynor and Dark and Rogue. Weird how when Zerg is dominating Zerg players are just better but it's different when another race dominates
No, not like reynor, dark, and rogue.
Serral's combined Premier/Major medal count is 66 top 3 finishes.
For comparison:
Rogue: 30 Dark: 41 Reynor: 33
Maru: 48 Byun: 33 Innovation: 41
herO: 32 neeb: 51 Zest: 39
I don't understand how you people can't just like... go to liquipedia yourselves and see that the game's pretty fucking balanced, and serral's an enormous outlier.
Even if you exclude Serral Zerg has won the most premier tournaments by a lot. But if you exclude Serral you'd also have to exclude the biggest outlier for the other races (Maru and Trap) and that wouldn't look pretty. Btw Trap and Maru are bigger outliers for their races than Serral for Zerg. You should take your own advice and look at liquipedia Premier Tournaments
On January 26 2023 03:05 ZeroByte13 wrote: Can we all agree that world championships are a culmination of the season, and every player gives their all to win it because of the huge prize for 1st place? You can win it and "cruise" next year more or less in terms of winnings. Stakes cannot get any higher. They're at least 5x times higher than any other tournament.
And somehow last 8 times it was always Zerg who won it. Your "enormous outlier" Serral won only 2 of them, 6 other were won by 4 different other Zergs.
At least we terran and protoss get to experiment hope for a few days until it inevitably goes back to the expected zerg winner, this year won't be different. We will get to see the likes of herO and Maru beat up weak zergs in groupstage and be hopeful that a T/P can win Katowice, and I guess we will see if it happens this year?
It’s too early to balance whine for me, but I don’t understand why they buffed Zerg late game so much. Thors are more derpy than the ultralisk , but that’s “fine”. Let’s see how it goes in the next months.
On January 26 2023 00:47 [Phantom] wrote: We all agree harmstem at least tries to be objective and is generally reasonable right?
Watch this video from minute 21:30 to 23:00.
A quote that stands out:
"Protoss players are all losers cause we accept the units that are given to us. I feel we have too many content creators that take responsibility for bad play and don't complain on reddit so we're buffed"
He says it half jokingly but I believe there is truth to it.
People like him will try to be objective and remove their biases in balance discussion. This might lead them to overcompensate and end up being slightly biased against themselves.
Even if he doesn't overcompensate, if he is trying to be objective and others are not and are pushing hard for subjective changes, it's inevitable he would be pressured to accept at least some of the changes under the guise of being "reasonable".
If other protoss players are like him, no wonder we get this shitshow.
And let's be honest, Protoss is frustrating to play against. Throughout the game history, regardless of balance or actual winrates, Protoss has had strategies nerfed because they were frustrating to play against, even if the overall winrate for the race wasn't that good.
So it's very possible that a bunch of zergs and Terrans ally together to nerf something that feels frustrating, and the protoss players lack the insistence or are not outspoken enough to get actual compensating buffs to get through.
I believe that's what happened here. Zerg pros are very outspoken (like that harms term video where they rank units and Scarlet wants to put every Zerg unit in C and D tiers) they just live in their little world and are very spoken about it. And Protoss is frustrating to play against so zergs are more outspoken about their issues. Zergs end up getting a lot of buffs, Terran changed end up being a mess, and Protoss ends up with terrible changes that force you to all in in every pvz.
Which btw I'm doing. I've always been a macro player like stats but I'm fed up. If the game wants me to all in I Will
He's being sarcastic, you can't truly be this dense can you?
Like he's literally talking about how bad the stalker and how broken the hydra is while winning with mass blink stalkers........
It’s a decent patch. Even though I feel my toss got the shit end of the stick
The terran complaining has began since the beginning of SC2
When terrans wins, they tell toss and Zergs to “git gud or l2p”
When terran loses, it’s cause “imbaaaaa or ez A move etc”
This is what happens when the majority of terran community was following whatever Avilo said, then innovation, now Maru (who are all well known complainers/whiners)
Funny that majority of the time it’s always a terran player/fan that starts the QQ. Ryung GSL Imba spam was one of the most embarrassing display of professionalism in sc2
On January 26 2023 04:05 TossHeroes wrote: It’s a decent patch. Even though I feel my toss got the shit end of the stick
The terran complaining has began since the beginning of SC2
When terrans wins, they tell toss and Zergs to “git gud or l2p”
When terran loses, it’s cause “imbaaaaa or ez A move etc”
This is what happens when the majority of terran community was following whatever Avilo said, then innovation, now Maru (who are all well known complainers/whiners)
Funny that majority of the time it’s always a terran player/fan that starts the QQ. Ryung GSL Imba spam was one of the most embarrassing display of professionalism in sc2
it does seem like a bit of boy who cried wolf but no doubt terran and toss objectively nerfed in this patch, zerg buffed.
Man, these forums have really turned into cancer, as they're dominated by like the same 4-5 bad faith posters making the same tired arguments. Pretty sad, considering browsing these forums used to be really enjoyable.
Also, balance has certainly tended to tilt toward Zerg at various points, but the largest factor in their dominance boils down to:
They have the largest pool of remaining S-tier talent and have for YEARS. At various points, Terran lost Innovation/TY and Protoss lost Stats, SoS, Classic (yes he's been back but not the same), Zest, and Trap. Zerg only had to say goodbye to Soo (and recently Rogue). Also, Rogue, Serral, Dark and Reynor are all-time SC2 talents, and have remained titans throughout the duration of their careers, with Rogue/Serral as GOAT contenders. These days, Terran and Protoss have only 1 realistic contender in Maru/Hero.
On January 26 2023 04:38 Glorfindelio wrote: Man, these forums have really turned into cancer, as they're dominated by like the same 4-5 bad faith posters making the same tired arguments. Pretty sad, considering browsing these forums used to be really enjoyable.
Also, balance has certainly tended to tilt toward Zerg at various points, but the largest factor in their dominance boils down to:
They have the largest pool of remaining S-tier talent and have for YEARS. At various points, Terran lost Innovation/TY and Protoss lost Stats, SoS, Classic (yes he's been back but not the same), Zest, and Trap. Zerg only had to say goodbye to Soo (and recently Rogue). Also, Rogue, Serral, Dark and Reynor are all-time SC2 talents, and have remained titans throughout the duration of their careers, with Rogue/Serral as GOAT contenders. These days, Terran and Protoss have only 1 realistic contender in Maru/Hero.
yes, the zerg players are just more talented and arguing the race is too strong is bad faith. 100% agree /s
On January 26 2023 04:38 Glorfindelio wrote: Man, these forums have really turned into cancer, as they're dominated by like the same 4-5 bad faith posters making the same tired arguments. Pretty sad, considering browsing these forums used to be really enjoyable.
Also, balance has certainly tended to tilt toward Zerg at various points, but the largest factor in their dominance boils down to:
They have the largest pool of remaining S-tier talent and have for YEARS. At various points, Terran lost Innovation/TY and Protoss lost Stats, SoS, Classic (yes he's been back but not the same), Zest, and Trap. Zerg only had to say goodbye to Soo (and recently Rogue). Also, Rogue, Serral, Dark and Reynor are all-time SC2 talents, and have remained titans throughout the duration of their careers, with Rogue/Serral as GOAT contenders. These days, Terran and Protoss have only 1 realistic contender in Maru/Hero.
yes, the zerg players are just more talented and arguing the race is too strong is bad faith. 100% agree /s
Yes the current Zergs players are just superiors
It’s the terran fan base trying to justify players such as bunny and cure should be winning. That’s like us toss players complaining why Astrea or classic isn’t winning the GSL. It’s just ridiculous.
And your argument for why top-4 zerg are so much better than Bunny and Cure is.... because they win more? They win so much because they're so good, and the proof of them being super good is "because they win so much"? Is this correct?
What if Bunny is better than Serral, and he's just being held back by balance all these 5 last years?
You'll say "don't be silly, Serral is obviously much better than Bunny". But give marines +15 hp (breaking the balance) and top-5 terrans (including Bunny) will win most of the tournaments. And then I'll say it's because they're just better than other players. How would you prove it's not the case and there's a problem with game balance?
On January 26 2023 03:53 RiSkysc2 wrote: He's being sarcastic, you can't truly be this dense can you?
Like he's literally talking about how bad the stalker and how broken the hydra is while winning with mass blink stalkers........
Man, the level gap between players is HUGE, you can't trully be this dense, can you? He is winning because the gap level is abysmal, and even with upgrades Stalkers are really bad in most situations which I don't think it is bad overall but the point on some Protoss units stands, his sarcasm is covering something quite real, but every nice thing Protoss get is used to cheese or all in usually so they don't want to overtune one of the more versatile units the race has.
so, aside from all the boring balance whine from the same 3 people who have arguing on here for 15 years...
is there anything to try out or do differently with toss now in any matchup? new builds or strats? because it seems like mostly the plan is to play exactly the same except our tech is weaker
the only thing i can think of is maybe with ravager morph time being substantially longer there's a bigger window to do soul trains/force field based aggression again, which could be really cool, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
On January 26 2023 05:46 moonsjde wrote: so, aside from all the boring balance whine from the same 3 people who have arguing on here for 15 years...
is there anything to try out or do differently with toss now in any matchup? new builds or strats? because it seems like mostly the plan is to play exactly the same except our tech is weaker
the only thing i can think of is maybe with ravager morph time being substantially longer there's a bigger window to do soul trains/force field based aggression again, which could be really cool, but haven't had a chance to test it out yet.
Better and earlier scout based on Sentries which can be used for some pushes later abusing ForceFields. Since the Ravager takes longer to morph the Force Fields will be better offensive and deffensive wise. Also the speedier Observer to keep as well scouting and denying creep. Maybe better use on Archons to counter Mutas (which I used to play a Zealot Templar Archon build en PvZ super good time ago) Now you need to micro better the Carriers and the Disruptors because of the nerfs.
There are changes that can't be analyzed on a vaccum, you need to wait to also see what other races go for and change.
EPT![[image loading]](https://miro.medium.com/max/640/1*6ss9wuGIVSnPKOKmCeS3tA.webp)
Serral/Results
