• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:32
CEST 21:32
KST 04:32
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!9[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Evil Geniuses - shutting down10ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League54Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.166
StarCraft 2
General
REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development Weekly Cups (October 5-11): Farewell to 5.0.16 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Evil Geniuses - shutting down How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR?
Tourneys
ScienceCraft (October 24-25) - Live Event RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WORTEX Challenger Series — Open SC2 LAN in Budapes
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Sweltering Sands [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 548 Shining Bright The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror Mutation # 546 Catch the Train
Brood War
General
[Megathread] Daily Funny Videos Do we even care about balance? Sagi.gg Launcher Released Rollback Netcode in Brood War BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[$1250] International ShieldBattery League [ASL22] Grand Finals [BSL23] RO24 Group Stage KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Strategy
Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers Replay Review Process - What do you do?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Armies of Exigo - YesYes? Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion!
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
How Much Genes Contribute to…
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
38 yo Retired SWE loo…
PurE)Rabbit-SF
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 6796 users

5.0.11 Patch Released - Balance Changes - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
223 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
moonsjde
Profile Joined October 2022
48 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-14 04:39:24
February 14 2023 03:38 GMT
#221
On February 14 2023 00:23 Sogetsu wrote:
Honestly, to everyone saying Overchard nerf was huge, yeah it is, build some more batteries, problem solved. It is not like Zerg has only 1 Queen and can deny any push, most of them spam them like Lings, and in most Cheese the Protoss do exactly that, spam Batteries with the push, but not for defense... like "Yeah I will try to Overcharge one Pylon and I will be fine"

i think you're missing something critical about what makes overcharge effective. the healing rate (not the total shields healed, but how quickly they heal) is super important for keeping expensive units alive, and having extra batteries won't make a robo or stargate unit survive if the healing can't out-DPS your opponent's focus fire. extra batteries can provide longevity against extremely committed attacks with a lot of reinforcement, but they don't do anything to prevent something like a tank push from just bullying tech units or a nexus to death. this is where the "just one battery" meme comes from and why often pros don't care to build more than one per nexus - it's really specifically about the overcharge healing rate. the reason you build many batteries with cheese is because it extends the longevity of an attack which in theory extends your timing window

i understand why people dislike super batteries and why they were nerfed, but it does create a hole in protoss's defensive power that can make the econ/army balancing act really difficult. toss needs something else to fill that defensive role that isn't a feelsbad for the opponent and perhaps rewards execution more than pressing a button. maybe something like batteries healing buildings faster than units so toss can take more advantage of backward positioning behind their buildings (which benefits both zerg and terran immensely in defensive fights and is supposed to be part of basic RTS tactics and defender's advantage) but can't simply stand forward and take an unfair fight? not sure, but there has to be a solution better than "build more batteries," which just encourages even less active play by toss. toss players WANT to be active in macro games, but there has to be an incentive for it!

problem is people love to hate on turtling and toss deathballs but they also hate the things that discourage those playstyles, the things that allow toss to split army and harass. people forget that defensive tools are not just for turtling, they also enable counterplay. people bitch about prisms, recall, batteries, but without those tools protoss is a race of slow, expensive units that have to be positioned perfectly 100% of the time or a good opponent will very rapidly use faster units to find superior value. so either allow protoss to have the "cheats" everyone hates playing against or substantially alter the lower tech units to be faster and more efficient when actively microed. for my money i would prefer taking power out of high tech units and putting it into stuff like gateway/immortal and phoenixes, all of which are widely considered the most mechanically fun units toss has, but it has to be one way or the other. in a game as fast as SC2 you can't just click your way out of the limitation that unit speed puts on your micro potential. this is a huge reason mech struggles to be relevant and a common complaint from mech players as well. i get that "big giant laser robots and technology" is part of the assumed identity of the race, but if you ask me it's more important for matchups to be fun on both sides than it is to get the "flavor win" of carriers and colossus being core units. frankly if you want to talk about flavor i think the advanced technology race should be the one with scans and sensor towers and terran should probably have stuff like observers, but that's stepping out of matchup balance and into major redesigns that will never happen
Turbovolver
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Australia2454 Posts
February 14 2023 04:19 GMT
#222
Whiners in shambles. You love to see it.
The original Bogus fan.
TurtleFish
Profile Joined December 2022
11 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-14 05:37:07
February 14 2023 05:34 GMT
#223
[image loading]

Protoss' only representative in the balance council (Harstem) is Reynor's bi*tch. Are you really that surprised Zerg keeps getting buffed every patch?
ishitlaxkar1010
Profile Joined August 2024
1 Post
Last Edited: 2024-08-21 09:24:19
August 21 2024 08:50 GMT
#224
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Prev 1 10 11 12 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 379
UpATreeSC 158
JuggernautJason43
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 20272
firebathero 386
Mini 254
ProTech174
Dewaltoss 133
ggaemo 90
910 26
sorry 19
Yoon 18
HiyA 17
Dota 2
Gorgc11547
monkeys_forever138
syndereN128
Counter-Strike
fl0m1497
kRYSTAL_30
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu686
Other Games
summit1g2482
FrodaN1254
Beastyqt1093
ceh9642
XaKoH 551
C9.Mang0121
Trikslyr55
QueenE50
ToD19
MindelVK11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 40
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 7
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix11
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3053
• WagamamaTV543
League of Legends
• TFBlade807
Other Games
• Shiphtur925
• imaqtpie874
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 29m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
15h 29m
Harstem vs Zoun
Harstem vs GgMaChine
GgMaChine vs Lambo
Harstem vs Lambo
GgMaChine vs Zoun
Lambo vs Zoun
OSC
18h 29m
Big Brain Bouts
20h 29m
FEL
1d 13h
Patches Events
1d 17h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 21h
FEL
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
ByuN vs Lambo
MaxPax vs Bunny
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Clem vs Classic
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-20
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
IPSL Winter 2026-27
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
Acropolis #5 - GSC
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

BSL Season 23
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.