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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On September 30 2007 02:03 Chodorkovskiy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2007 01:44 oneofthem wrote:
anyway, point is, some people think figuring out the range the hard way is an enjoyable part of the game. if you treat it instrumentally then thing doesn't work out the same. This is a matter of habit: in other games, HP and damage points have to be figured out instinctively, yet making it so in SCII would cause a mass TL suicide. Any element of chance or luck (such as hostile creeps or weather effects) is frowned upon. No, SC is a very precise, very mathematical game, which allows progamers to kill 500 Sunkens with two marines and a medic. That's what makes people compare it to chess and that's why I want to leave nothing "under the hood", from range to rate of fire. these affect different areas of gameplay. im not going to spend too much time on this, but if you want to support the idea, you need to argue with full awareness of the impact of such changes on gameplay experience of different people. for this, a simple analogy to a different aspect of the game iwth potentially different impacts is only conveying your own sentiments, that you think these impacts are similar. it is not a proper discussion to only tell your side of the story.
the precision of sc is not from 'hp and damage shown.' rather it is in the simplicity of the system. 40=5x8 etc. if sc had probabilistic damage, which tanks and splash damage sometimes do, the numbering becomes useless. see warcraft 3's range of damage and bewildering armor types.
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The only thing i know the range for is tank, and thats probably the only thing I'll ever care for.
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As long as it doesn't clutter the interface (Make it like under gameplay options in the menu), I don't see the harm it could do.
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Maybe this should be implemented in a tutorial part of the game or the early missions :}
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On September 30 2007 01:28 Chodorkovskiy wrote:
We get you're all rough and tough BW experts. Okay. I don't see how firing circles can impede gameplay, but I do see how they can enchance it. Yes.
Don't be retarded, remember your units like you do in any other game and np.
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Snet
United States3573 Posts
I don't' like the idea of this. Knowing something like that should be something you earn through experience.
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United States12237 Posts
It's not going to greatly affect anything, so there's no harm in adding it. There is some degree of skill involved in always deploying your tanks at maximum range, or placing them so that their range extends over an entire chokepoint, but a visual range indicator wouldn't diminish that skill too much.
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The word dumb down and nubify is thrown away far too much in this community. You guys honestly think this will somehow make the game soooo much easier to play, or that newbie friend you stomp on to get an ego boost, will he somehow magically be able to beat you if you implement this feature? This feature is a convenience thing, just like shift queuing, but far less important, maybe it can play a role or two during the course of a match. Course with tanks it's very beneficial.
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On September 30 2007 03:18 Stegosaur wrote:
Stop being so fucking anal about it. The guy asked a question and I replied. I think giving people lots of help playing the game equals dumbing it down, because it takes away from things you can figure out yourself.
I made this reply because this isn't an isolated incident... in some other thread I read not so long ago, someone said something like "noobs don't use deception, they can't even comprehend it" reinforcing the very stupid thought that SC skill = intelligence. So basically, Noob = idiot, Pro = genius, and therefore better UI = dumbing down the game, so the idiots can play.
By the way, it's possible to show those circles only if the player holds a key, such as tab. That way it won't unnecessarily clutter the screen.
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NO, this is part of the spatial recogonition skills an advanced gamer learns.
close thread.
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I'm seriously laughing so hard at this thread. You guys are so ridiculous. hahah.
o noes we don't use a cork as the ball in table tennis anymore the skill is gooone  these paddles now have dimples that make getting spin easier? all the skill gone.
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For the things that matters (Turrets, tanks and other deployables) Its dumb not to have this in, for mobile units it isnt needed though.
The reason its dumb not to have this in is beacuse technically a person shouldnt have to experiment to learn how far units shoot, just like they shouldnt have to experiment to learn how much damage the units does or how much health they have.
Hiding information about the units is dumb. Then we could as well hide the resource count and the supply count, since skilled players should know how much they have already? And if we hide the health of all the units and energy it would require a lot of skill to know wich templars got the enregy to cast and wich to merge, or when to repair the bunkers etc.
But generally you shouldnt hide information about the players units unless you want to hide imbalance from him and create a lot of rumors on what is imba.
On September 30 2007 02:13 EmS.Radagast wrote:
oh I forgot to add that 0.999........ != 1.
Depends on the situation. If we go theoretically they are not equal, but practically they are since there is no way you can find the difference or any situation were the difference would matter.
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its not hiding information, its just another small aspect to be learned that adds to the depth of the game.
like a year or 2 ago, a replay of boxer vs some mediocre terran came out and boxer had a small group of tanks and just kept inching forward, siegeing in tank range but out of vision range and floating a rax forward so hed kill the other guys sieged tanks without taking a shot.
add range indicator and that wouldnt be cool/impressive, it wouldve been something standard done since the game was released.
dumbing-down does not refer to intelligence, its a phrase used with the common meaning of 'making things easier'. making things easier makes the game less competetive because if any random idiot can do something its not impressive.
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Meh range is easy to determine after only a little experience.
You'll only be annoyed by the indicator everytime you click a unit later on.
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Depends on the situation. If we go theoretically they are not equal, but practically they are since there is no way you can find the difference or any situation were the difference would matter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0.999...
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On September 29 2007 23:49 mikeymoo wrote:
I say togglable only in campaign, since by multiplayer, people should have enough shkill to be able to judge correctly. But i don't think it is needed at all.
I agree totally.
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having the vision range of detectors shown would be really useful for (stopping) lurker/dt
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I sure could use it when building sunkens when Im being bunker rushed... but I think i could learn to estimate that on my own with just a LITTLE bit more experience. Only that everyone I play tend to fastexpand these days.
I'm not sure if it is a good idea, since it probably is easy to implement it could be worth trying for blizzard.
I think however that it is not worth it. The few times it would actually be useful would not be worth the extra buttoncombination you would have to invent for it. And it would potentially look too cluttery. it is allready close to the limit sometimes with all the grids and things when you are building or making pylons imo.
and from wikipedia:
the question of 0.999… proved such a popular topic in the first seven years of Blizzard Entertainment's Battle.net forums that the company's president, Mike Morhaime, announced at a press conference on April 1, 2004 that it is 1:
We are very excited to close the book on this subject once and for all. We've witnessed the heartache and concern over whether .999~ does or does not equal 1, and we're proud that the following proof finally and conclusively addresses the issue for our customers.[43]
Blizzard's subsequent press release offers two proofs, based on limits and multiplication by 10.
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Stegosaur
Netherlands1231 Posts
On September 30 2007 06:42 quasi -QS- wrote:I'm seriously laughing so hard at this thread. You guys are so ridiculous. hahah. o noes we don't use a cork as the ball in table tennis anymore the skill is gooone these paddles now have dimples that make getting spin easier? all the skill gone.
Maybe you should register on a tabletennis forum instead :<
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EPT
