EPTStarCraft II 5.0.9 PTR Patch Notes (Balance) - Page 4
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
On March 09 2022 04:16 The_Red_Viper wrote: lol Are you upset? | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24238 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:34 Nakajin wrote: Honestly I'd be quite mad if I was protoss. The void ray nerf is fair, but the battery and DT nerf with nothing in return feel like a random jab. This is why I think this patch is actually perfect. It nerfs the "abusive" protoss strats which help make protoss predominate at lower levels, but it's actually probably a net buff for Protoss at the highest levels which is what we wanted to accomplish! | ||
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 09 2022 07:10 Cricketer12 wrote: Protoss...nerfs? Is there something I'm missing? Thought protoss sucked as evidenced by the last two years of competetive results... 50% of GM representation apparently doesn't mean anything to you. Well it means a lot to the people who actually play the game. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:34 Nakajin wrote: Honestly I'd be quite mad if I was protoss. The void ray nerf is fair, but the battery and DT nerf with nothing in return feel like a random jab. Queen walk got straight up removed. How is that not compensation? That was one if not the most common answer to early stargate builds. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:48 Vindicare605 wrote: Queen walk got straight up removed. How is that not compensation? That was one if not the most common answer to early stargate builds. I mean they nerf the void and deleated the queen walk, not sure why the battery rush nerf came into it. It's kind of the only pvt rush you can do. With that said, I'm quite hype for a new patch! | ||
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Ziggy
South Korea2106 Posts
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
On March 09 2022 09:03 Ziggy wrote: considering how long we've had to wait I refuse to get excited about half-arsed number tweaks I think your expectations are too high since they aren't actively developing content and we've known that for years now. This should be exciting though, and I'll tell you why. There has been a question hanging over Starcraft 2 if the meta will be fixed with respect to the actual game and only change going forward with respect to map pools. This is the situation Brood War has been in for many years now. What this shows is that the meta will continue to evolve, which is good for the game and its longevity because it's actually an additional degree of freedom in keeping the gameplay fresh that we thought may have been gone when they stopped developing content. You can change the meta of a game immensely by tweaking the magnitudes along and not defining any new behaviors, so it helps to keep the game alive. | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1236 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:14 InfCereal wrote: Harstem says this is not the last patch in his video here: I really enjoy Harstem's enthusiam and comments. I also agree with his judgment that changes to ZvP should be such that at the highest level zerg is nerfed, whereas at the casual level protoss is nerfed. Removing queen walks and making void rays more expensive is a good step in this direction. It is also great to hear that there is now apparently a consortium of pros and other experts in place having the capacity to suggest and implement balance changes in the short term. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:34 Nakajin wrote: Honestly I'd be quite mad if I was protoss. The void ray nerf is fair, but the battery and DT nerf with nothing in return feel like a random jab. No queen walk and way, way, way worse cannon rush into voidray/battery BS makes this whole thing worth it for protoss. | ||
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honorablemacroterran
188 Posts
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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seopthi
395 Posts
On March 09 2022 05:06 BisuDagger wrote: Were people complaining about DT blink attack? I don't know what's wrong with TY's solution to build a second Planetary. | ||
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Beelzebub1
1004 Posts
It also makes sniping creep even more important before. Protoss is now going to have a very vested intertest in being out on the map and focusing on creep denial like Terrans do, to contain the Queens on their side of the map and eliminate the potential for Zerg to make big push outs supported by 12 full energy Queens. Before eliminating creep as Protoss was more of a helpful feel good measure, now it will be alot more of a frontal task. This also means that Queens will need to probably dedicate alot more energy to laying creep, as Protoss will be actively sniping tumors, therefore keeping Queen energy lower for longer. The Void Ray/DT/Shield Battery nerfs look pretty TvP centered. I'm no expert in the match up but I know the proxy battery into Void Rays thing was kind of abusive as well as DT planetary snipes being a thing. Didn't know any of it was OP enough to warrant a patch but aye, probably best to ditch dumb abusive things in general, like Queen walks. Honestly not a fan of the widow mine change, seems like a change aimed at casuals like me who can just work on their micro and dodge mines better. Pros are pretty fucking good at dodging mines at the top level and I think the patches really need to focus on improving pro play only. | ||
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seopthi
395 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:48 Vindicare605 wrote: 50% of GM representation apparently doesn't mean anything to you. Well it means a lot to the people who actually play the game. It means a lot to people who are in GM, but what about Silver? Currently, the same dominance Protoss has in GM, Terran has in Silver. It must be annoying to Silver players to play XvT all the time. This is to make the point that the same way the balance change should not be targeted at Silver players, it should not be targeted at specifically GM players. I agree with the sentiment that uneven distribution among races within a league is unfun and fixing that would mean a lot to people who play the game -- in any league. Several years ago I was in Diamond which used to be dominated by Zerg, and XvZ was ~50% of my games. I stopped playing the game because of this and it was a few years before I returned. To me, the solution seems fairly clear -- balance the solely on the highest level. However, when it comes to ladder -- separate MMR by matchup -- overall MMR results in the overall 50% winrate, but given the nature of the game, easily uneven winrate among matchups. However, if there was separate MMR per matchup, no matter what is the balance and consequently the race distribution within leagues, all players would have 50% winrate per game and would play against each race 1/3 of the time. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
At the same time, Terran WM drops with drilling claws will be severely weakened. I’m not sure if WM drops that depend on drilling claws will be viable anymore. | ||
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Pentarp
227 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:48 Vindicare605 wrote: Queen walk got straight up removed. How is that not compensation? That was one if not the most common answer to early stargate builds. Removing queen-walk is huge for PvZ. In addition, lurker burrow speed nerf is a buff to ground-based units in PvZ. Lurkers have been commonly attributed to why Protoss do not favour ground-based comps. Furthermore, the nerf to widow-mine burrow is also a buff for PvT. Mass mine-drops is a thing at the highest levels of play - something that Protoss have created a multipage thread filled with sweet sweet Aiurean tear. I'm sure I can taste some of that in this thread. + Show Spoiler + This thread's collection of Protoss tears with a few other special mentions: On March 09 2022 05:13 Durnuu wrote: Can't wait to confirm that these change absolutely nothing to Protoss issues in PvZ. On March 09 2022 06:03 Xamo wrote: Cannot agree more. RIP Protoss, the most nerfed race - again. On March 09 2022 06:16 Freeborn wrote: The dark templar change must be removed, whoever thought of that especially without any other buff, must be retarded. The rest is worth a try. On March 09 2022 06:41 Nebuchad wrote: This seems really bad. PvZ is going to be a little better but PvT is going to be a lot worse, and TvZ is going to shift to terran somewhat. Terran will be the best race by far when they clearly weren't the ones in need of much help. On March 09 2022 07:10 Cricketer12 wrote: Protoss...nerfs? Is there something I'm missing? Thought protoss sucked as evidenced by the last two years of competetive results... On March 09 2022 07:11 TheCheapSkate wrote: Is this April fools joke? After all the recent struggles protoss gets nefred the most?No gateway unit buffs? And zerg actually gets a buff to the nydus and the queen is barley touched? On March 09 2022 07:23 ejozl wrote: This is not what is needed, I don't like most of this. Protoss need help vs Terran right now, the DT nerf is stupid and in the wrong direction. Voids only make the transition to air better, the actual air lies with the Carrier, so sky toss is not nerfed, but a lot of cool builds are, tho one change might be warranted. Zerg is also nerfed vs Terran, so now Terran is just the master race. The Shield Battery and Queen nerf will probably remove a lot of variety which is much needed for a game that doesn't rely on changes. Obviously the changes are not huge, but they are in the wrong direction  On March 09 2022 08:34 Nakajin wrote: Honestly I'd be quite mad if I was protoss. The void ray nerf is fair, but the battery and DT nerf with nothing in return feel like a random jab. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
PvZ: Weakens the Protoss early game. Helps them not die to "economic" units strolling across the map midgame. It's okay, I guess. But I'm not sure Protoss was exactly crushing it early game as-is, and I'd hoped for a more comprehensive set of nerfs and buffs that might allow something other than turtling to airtoss to be viable mid- to late- game. Lurkers burrowing 0.3 seconds slower ain't going to do that. PvT: DTs not as good lategame, widow mines and void rays not as good early game? Seem like good changes. No real complaints here. TvZ: Might actually be the worst-impacted matchup, though obviously it's hard to say right now. I don't see these changes doing anything other than hurt Terran. The Queen and Lurker nerfs I don't think will have much impact (other than maybe discouraging Zergs from charging in and burrowing Lurkers on top of everything, a tactic that already rarely works) while it makes the already questionable choice to go Widow Mine over Tank even worse. On the whole, while they address a few specific problems, I don't think the changes do a lot to nerf Zerg, which is what has been needed for years at the pro level. | ||
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