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Metalmade
5 Posts
If Zergs miss one or more inject cycles they are basically dead and queuing injects wont give them more larvae instantly. If they miss a creep cycle the lose vision. If Protosses miss a Cronoboost they cant immediatly chrono 4 Times and get their research done instantly. Bad macro should be punished. With a cooldown on Mules for the duration of gaining 50 Energy, the Terran players are forced to macro properly and if they dont, they will have to use the Energy for scans instead of Mules. | ||
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angry_maia
333 Posts
On March 09 2022 06:41 Nebuchad wrote: This seems really bad. PvZ is going to be a little better but PvT is going to be a lot worse, and TvZ is going to shift to terran somewhat. Terran will be the best race by far when they clearly weren't the ones in need of much help. How is PvT going to change at all? The battery nerf only affects proxy void stuff, which won't be a thing at all. The only relevant P-nerf is the DT nerf which only kicks in late game (and that too not too much). | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12593 Posts
On March 09 2022 06:53 angry_maia wrote: How is PvT going to change at all? The battery nerf only affects proxy void stuff, which won't be a thing at all. The only relevant P-nerf is the DT nerf which only kicks in late game (and that too not too much). DTs are quite important in the late game. | ||
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neptunusfisk
2286 Posts
On March 09 2022 06:49 Metalmade wrote: I would like to see a Cooldown on Terran Mules. At the current state Terrans wont get punished for bad macro. They can forget to Macro for a period of time and then drop the mule hammer, with no negative consequences. So Terran is the race that can get away with bad macro. OK lmao | ||
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Antithesis
Germany1274 Posts
Personally, I mostly enjoy the increased cost and production time of the void ray. Everything which makes skytoss even slightly less convenient is a good thing. On March 09 2022 04:44 vyzion wrote: I recall Lambo or Showtime saying that the main reason skytoss is common is because lurkers are too strong against ground. perhaps the lurker burrow delay will shift it slightly towards ground armies I could be completely misquoting them, so I apologize if i am. Though the myth of the lurker being the reason for the popularity of skytoss has been flourishing for some time, it is not widely endorsed among pros, and certainly not by Lambo. In fact, Lambo made a literal video whose sole point was to argue that the lurker is not the reason why skytoss openings are most frequently played. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14003 Posts
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TheCheapSkate
Slovenia317 Posts
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Metalmade
5 Posts
On March 09 2022 07:06 neptunusfisk wrote: I would like to see a Cooldown on Terran Mules. At the current state Terrans wont get punished for bad macro. They can forget to Macro for a period of time and then drop the mule hammer, with no negative consequences. So Terran is the race that can get away with bad macro. OK lmao[/QUOTE] Yes. Where do the other races get away with bad macro? As I said, if u miss injects or creep cycles you get punished by not having larva or vision. Protoss also cant chrono multiple times the same building at once. So exlain to me, where they get away with murder... | ||
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AxiomB
69 Posts
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ejozl
Denmark3559 Posts
Protoss need help vs Terran right now, the DT nerf is stupid and in the wrong direction. Voids only make the transition to air better, the actual air lies with the Carrier, so sky toss is not nerfed, but a lot of cool builds are, tho one change might be warranted. Zerg is also nerfed vs Terran, so now Terran is just the master race. The Shield Battery and Queen nerf will probably remove a lot of variety which is much needed for a game that doesn't rely on changes. Obviously the changes are not huge, but they are in the wrong direction  | ||
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THERIDDLER
Canada137 Posts
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angry_maia
333 Posts
On March 09 2022 07:10 Cricketer12 wrote: Protoss...nerfs? Is there something I'm missing? Thought protoss sucked as evidenced by the last two years of competetive results... What are you talking about -- the queen nerf is waaaaay more significant than the void ray nerf, and i don't really see the relevance of the other toss nerfs to standard play (battery nerf doesn't matter if you don't go for proxy stuff). | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On March 09 2022 04:44 vyzion wrote: I recall Lambo or Showtime saying that the main reason skytoss is common is because lurkers are too strong against ground. perhaps the lurker burrow delay will shift it slightly towards ground armies I could be completely misquoting them, so I apologize if i am. Overall, these sound like pretty solid changes to me. The community is also very passionate/anal and if they've been involved for months, I have confidence it should play out with a net positive Don’t know about Showtime, Lambo said the exact opposite, or well he made a video arguing that Toss don’t go air because lurkers are too strong on the ground, but that airtoss and it’s fleshed out openers is both safest, and transitions to lategame smoother Re changes, I like the DT change. One I suggested or agreed with, I think blink was intended as an escape tool to preserve DTs, not a way to juMp on things with no chance to react. I mean 0.75s isn’t huge, but it’s something a player can at least sort of react to, especially when DTs jump on armies. I like the battery change, in theory anyway. Makes some battery cheeses which are mostly obnoxious harder to pull off, but not impossible and keeps them basically as potent defensively. Mine change, again you’ve slightly more time to react to mine drops In summation. Not sure how this plays out at pro level, but I think some annoying builds and mechanics are slightly tweaked and PvT and PvT will benefit. Making things slightly slower will make the game less frustrating for us mere mortals. But they may make it harder at the pro level in certain interactions, in certain matchups. PvZ I don’t really see anything that would see a shift to make the matchup less garbage. I think the Queen change will make for some really wonky play, and may change things too much in a very either/or sense. Attack hits at an angle where you have creep, easy hold. You’re slightly off creep and get surprised, Queens get wiped instantly. Maybe you’re standing on the edge of creep and a tumour had been snapped, the creep recedes and you’re suddenly super vulnerable. BCs can maybe shark around and find spots where they can do damage and Queens can’t deflect it without transfuse. I’m not sure how that ends up looking, I think my on the fence stance has an understandable rationale. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
On March 09 2022 06:49 Metalmade wrote: I would like to see a Cooldown on Terran Mules. At the current state Terrans wont get punished for bad macro. They can forget to Macro for a period of time and then drop the mule hammer, with no negative consequences. Its also frustrating to see that if you kill the Terrans worker lines, and he drops 16 Mules and has more Economy than you on 80+ Workers. If Zergs miss one or more inject cycles they are basically dead and queuing injects wont give them more larvae instantly. If they miss a creep cycle the lose vision. If Protosses miss a Cronoboost they cant immediatly chrono 4 Times and get their research done instantly. Bad macro should be punished. With a cooldown on Mules for the duration of gaining 50 Energy, the Terran players are forced to macro properly and if they dont, they will have to use the Energy for scans instead of Mules. The negative consequence is Terrans don’t have all the extra stuff they would have if they were muling. If you’re in a position where a Terran with bad macro can drop the mule hammer and kill you, your macro isn’t on point either. Or a Terran with good macro would be absolutely stomping you already. Terrans have the scan mechanic in addition to mules, as well as the supply drop, since WoL. There’s an element of choice, spend that energy here, there or bank it. You also mine out bases even faster, so banking mules for a base you’re about to take can be the smart play. Protoss too now have that element of choice with recall, chronoing like a boss may give a production boost, but it leaves you vulnerable and closes your options. You may get caught out of position and shit out of luck, or you can’t send in a harassment squad and realistically hope they escape alive. There’s elements of choice to it, which I like. The game’s hard enough without being punished for missing a mule cycle, especially given I think on balance the Terran macro/micro/rallying demands are probably the hardest of the three races. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
I wanted to bring a slight problem to the attention of the SCII devs with the queen nerf. It’s quite common in early game ZvZ to be in a position where you have to defend a large amount of zerglings with just 2 queens, while your own defensive lings are building. The most common tactic to do this is to place both of your queens on the ramp between main and natural. These 2 queens can hold a large amount of lings for quite a long time due to their large health pool, and the ability to transfuse each other. Usually, this is enough time to morph defensive banelings, or get enough lings of your own out to not outright die to unscouted early ling floods. The inability to transfuse off creep is going to severely hamper this defensive strategy. | ||
[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
There are a few interesting things, but overall it's...not enough? The not being able to transfuse outside of creep is as band aid as you can get, but I'll take it. The VR increased cost seems reasonable. The increased build time isn't, would that only make Protoss more vulnerable to early all ins? Buffing the nydus is a terrible idea. It's like buffing the swarmhost. It's simply something that shouldn't be done. One day the Zerg players will discover the nydus is simply a mass recall that you can make multiple off, put anywhere on the map and have zero cooldown. The mine change is good. The Lurker nerf is nowhere near enough. If they want ground protists to be viable talons need to be completely removed. And I think Terran still needs some help vs Protoss. | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On March 09 2022 08:10 [Phantom] wrote: Honestly I think this is unacceptable. But it depends on how frequent the balance patches are. Are we going to be stuck in this patch for more than a year/forever? Then this patch is unacceptable. There are a few interesting things, but overall it's...not enough? The not being able to transfuse outside of creep is as band aid as you can get, but I'll take it. The VR increased cost seems reasonable. The increased build time isn't, would that only make Protoss more vulnerable to early all ins? Buffing the nydus is a terrible idea. It's like buffing the swarmhost. It's simply something that shouldn't be done. One day the Zerg players will discover the nydus is simply a mass recall that you can make multiple off, put anywhere on the map and have zero cooldown. The mine change is good. The Lurker nerf is nowhere near enough. If they want ground protists to be viable talons need to be completely removed. And I think Terran still needs some help vs Protoss. Harstem says this is not the last patch in his video here: | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On March 09 2022 07:58 InfCereal wrote: I posted this on the bnet fourms, reposting here: Yeah there's actually going to be a ton of situations like this. Queens are off creep more than you would think. Think like ZvT and you're trying to defend a building third/fourth hatchery against an attack. I'm still a fan of the change though because it just means we have to see adaptations and new strats. Also @ phantom the nydus isn't getting buffed. Literally the only reason for the change was to allow queens to be able to transfuse nyduses that just built - which was the case BEFORE the patch anyway. This "buff" literally has no effect except to restore, not add, that possibility. | ||
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Zitong0105
1 Post
On March 09 2022 06:05 Itsxjoeyy wrote: Can still queen walk just bring overlords with the queens and drop creep Ravager-Ling Queen walk is a Hatch tech build buddy. Having a Lair and Overlord speed not only delayed your timing about 1 entire minute, but also means you have Hatch occupied for 4.5 Queens' building time, and the gas for 2 Ravagers. What this really affects is Protoss can have 3rd base as early as possible without concerning any Zerg punishment. No need to build defensive canons early on and be much more well-prepared for the Nydus Queen timing. Considering the current ZvP meta, these changes definitely bring a positive effect on the ZvP match-up. | ||
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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