• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:46
CET 11:46
KST 19:46
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13
StarCraft 2
General
Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win SC2 Proleague Discontinued; SKT, KT, SGK, CJ disband
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) RSL Offline FInals Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Which season is the best in ASL? Data analysis on 70 million replays BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions
Tourneys
[BSL21] RO16 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO16 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread The Perfect Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine The Big Programming Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Physical Exertion During Gam…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1632 users

DHM Winter Finals: RO16 Group C Preview

Forum Index > SC2 General
2 CommentsPost a Reply

DHM Winter Finals: RO16 Group C Preview

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
November 11th, 2021 00:54 GMT

DreamHack Masters Winter: Season Finals

The DHM Season Finals have often been a hotbed for upsets, and DHM Winter was no exception as Code S champion Cure suffered a shocking first round elimination from the group stage. The next group features Rogue and Dark as virtual locks to get through—surely they won't suffer the same fate?

The DHM Winter Season Finals will be held from November 9th to November 11th, with all match days beginning at 13:00 GMT (+00:00).

DreamHack Masters Summer 2021: Season Finals


RO16 - Group C Preview: Rogue, Dark, SpeCial, MarineLorD

by Poopi

Start time: Thursday, Nov 11 1:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Looking at this group a few weeks ago when it was announced, I would have predicted MarineLorD pulling off the upset and advancing instead of Rogue. It may seem crazy now, but Rogue was underperforming in online tournaments at the time, and MarineLorD had just managed to beat Reynor in a BO5 the DHM EU regional (part of the reason Reynor didn't make it to the Season Finals).

However, a lot can change in a few weeks. While Rogue still isn't playing great in online tournaments, it's mainly Protoss opponents who are giving him trouble. Looking at his recent matches, his only bad loss in ZvT came against Percival a month ago, and he's beat Dream, Gumiho, Cure and TIME since then (although he's given up more 'understandable' losses to ByuN, Clem and Maru). On the other hand, MarineLorD followed his upset victory against Reynor with a mixed bag of TvZ results, losing to Reynor in their next two meetings, going back and forth with Lambo, beating Armani, and losing to Elazer.

Those mixed results alone didn't worry me too much about MarineLorD's ability to upset Rogue in a DHM Season Finals, because the French terran is particularly good at preparing for an opponent. He also often practices with Serral, which paid off big time as we saw in DHM Europe against Reynor. However, MarineLorD is also juggling two games at the moment. Indeed, as a fan of Age of Empires 2, he started playing the recently released Age of Empires 4 (like many other SC2 pros), and even played enough to reach #1 in the rankings. If MarineLorD isn't in 100% good shape, then I will have to admit that things are looking grim for Terran in this group.

Dark isn't showing any particular weaknesses lately, while SpeCial is not the Terran I would choose to pull off a TvZ upset of this magnitude. Granted, Dark has recently lost ZvT's to stronger players like Maru, Cure, and ByuN, but he's taken care of business against the likes of TIME, Dream, and Ryung. Also, Dark is just extremely solid and has a much higher floor for his play than the mercurial Rogue. Aligulac is obviously favoring him with a near 90% chance to defeat SpeCial in a BO3—similar size upsets happen occasionally in EPT Weekly Cups, but top players take the DHM Season Finals much more seriously and can even prepare specifically for their opponents to further assert their dominance.

What's even worse for SpeCial is that it's been a while since he worked his strategic magic and scored a big upset in TvZ. The last time was three months ago in Code A when he defeated Armani 3-2, if you want to count Armani as a stronger player. If you think that's debatable, then you have to go all the way back to ESL Open Cup #64 in March, when he took a 3-1 over Solar. SpeCial did happen to upset Rogue 2-1 in a GSL Super Tournament qualifier in January, a result that improved him to 1-10 in all-time matches against Rogue (combined map score of 5 wins and 23 losses). The glass-half-full view on that win might not be wise to take here.

Predictions:

Despite MarineLorD's divided attention, he did cancel his participation in an AOE4 event in order to participate in DH:Season Finals. I trust him to still practice a bit and make some magic happen—he might very well beat Rogue in their initial encounter.

However, even if AOE4 was scheduled to come out much later and MarineLorD was practicing StarCraft 2 full time, I would still have predicted him to lose versus Dark. I'm going to say Dark advancing in first place is a no-brainer, and I'd even take him in a more conventionally predicted bout against Rogue in the winner’s match.

As mentioned above, SpeCial would be very hard pressed to beat Rogue in the losers match, which would leave us with MarineLorD vs Rogue in a rematch for the second-place spot.
Even though I am usually a proponent of the rematch curse in decider’s match, I do not think that will be the reason behind MarineLorD loss. Rogue will have the momentum going for him, while MarineLorD just hit a wall with Dark, and I do not think he can have enough range in his builds or play at the moment to beat Rogue in another BO3 (this would have been my prediction for a decider match, even if I did not predict a MarineLorD upset in the initial match, as MarineLorD is a very good TvT player capable of beating SpeCial in loser’s match).

Seeing Rogue go out in groups would hardly be the craziest thing we've seen in the history of DHM (it may not even be the craziest thing in this tournament), but it would probably require a more stacked group than this. I do not think I can avoid predicting the obvious "Dark and Rogue to advance."

Predictions:
Rogue < MarineLorD
Dark > SpeCial
MarineLord < Dark
Rogue > SpeCial
Rogue > MarineLorD

Dark and Rogue to advance.




Writer: Poopi
Editor: Wax
Photos: DreamHack
Statistics: Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Lokol18
Profile Joined July 2021
51 Posts
November 11 2021 01:05 GMT
#2
We had an upset in group A and almost another one in group B. That said, I can't see a world where either of these terrans advance
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
November 11 2021 01:30 GMT
#3
Seems like a pretty straight forward group, hopefully we get to see the tvt.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
The PondCast
10:00
Episode 74
CranKy Ducklings56
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 164
ProTech102
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 24385
Calm 1992
GuemChi 1399
Horang2 1337
Jaedong 611
actioN 566
BeSt 441
Mini 280
firebathero 266
EffOrt 265
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 253
Dewaltoss 134
Last 129
Light 128
Snow 113
Hyun 105
Larva 105
Shuttle 103
Sharp 88
Pusan 82
Rush 75
hero 66
Killer 62
Barracks 56
ggaemo 53
sorry 47
ZerO 45
Sacsri 43
Shine 33
ToSsGirL 32
Shinee 24
Backho 21
soO 20
Mong 19
Noble 16
Bale 14
NaDa 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Hm[arnc] 6
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm71
XcaliburYe50
League of Legends
JimRising 376
C9.Mang0252
Reynor66
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1789
shoxiejesuss676
Other Games
summit1g12735
ceh9647
crisheroes433
KnowMe49
Mew2King49
ZerO(Twitch)4
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 944
Other Games
gamesdonequick529
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 38
• LUISG 29
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota263
League of Legends
• Jankos2059
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 14m
Demi vs Mixu
Nicoract vs TBD
Babymarine vs MindelVK
ForJumy vs TBD
Shameless vs Percival
Replay Cast
13h 14m
Korean StarCraft League
1d 16h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 23h
WardiTV 2025
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sziky vs OyAji
Gypsy vs eOnzErG
OSC
2 days
Solar vs Creator
ByuN vs Gerald
Percival vs Babymarine
Moja vs Krystianer
EnDerr vs ForJumy
sebesdes vs Nicoract
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV 2025
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
BSL 21
3 days
Bonyth vs StRyKeR
Tarson vs Dandy
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
WardiTV 2025
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
PiGosaur Monday
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
6 days
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-30
RSL Revival: Season 3
Light HT

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
Acropolis #4 - TS3
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
Kuram Kup
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.