Within the release of Starcraft 2, could (Sc2) e-sport emerge in North America and Europe? Could it eventually be as popular as how Starcraft is to Korea?
Korea was a special case where their broadband was starting to bloom and Starcraft was the only "game" they could play (because all the others were too violent).
But then again, if Starcraft 2 becomes popular (and I mean REALLY popular) then maybe it is possible for North Americans/Europeans to follow the footsteps of the Koreans... as long as it is balanced/entertaining. Maybe it would be a cycle: Starcraft 2 on tv (but with a small audience) -> People start watching -> Motivation for the people to continue playing Starcraft 2 and new people start playing -> Starcraft 2 on tv (but with a slightly bigger audience) -> More people start watching -> More motivation......etc
I don't know... How plausible would it be to have a crowd of 10 000 people watching a Starcraft 2 final in the U.S/Canada?
It would take a huge shift in the way american's play games to popularize it to the point of profibility. Towards a more lan based gaming environment as opposed to console based gaming. And I don't see that really happening. However if anything could do it, it would be Starcraft 2. First though, e-sports would need a HUGE image makeover Still the USA is a much different market environment than korea.
Yeah I think most people in the US still see computer games as too nerdy to be able to enjoy them as a sport. Also, I think that most sports fans here would not have enough patience to enjoy a game that's as complex as starcraft.
On the other hand, poker became huge here despite being fairly nerdy and complex, so you never know.
Slim chance with trash like Halo 3 being shoved down the throats of gamers by Micro$oft.
Americans like crappy fps games like Halo and Counterstrike. Back when I played quake 3, which was like the starcraft of fps games, we were in the minority because the masses were infatuated with camperstrike. While I was tearing it up in Street Fighter 3rd strike, most people were lined up at the Tekken machine.
Starcraft 2 will be too good of a game for the American public. Americans prefer flash over substance and I don't think a sci-fi game that isn't Halo will be cool enough for the legions of teenage gutter trash.
On August 09 2007 20:36 Flooper wrote: Slim chance with trash like Halo 3 being shoved down the throats of gamers by Micro$oft.
Americans like crappy fps games like Halo and Counterstrike. Back when I played quake 3, which was like the starcraft of fps games, we were in the minority because the masses were infatuated with camperstrike. While I was tearing it up in Street Fighter 3rd strike, most people were lined up at the Tekken machine.
Starcraft 2 will be too good of a game for the American public. Americans prefer flash over substance and I don't think a sci-fi game that isn't Halo will be cool enough for the legions of teenage gutter trash.
I think europe would be ready soon. I dont think its a question of if but rather when esports will get bigger in europe. I cant see any reason why people would stop using computers or stop playing games. When our generation grows older then people of all ages will be playing games and it will be a much bigger part of our culture not just something kids and teenagers do. That is actualy happening as we speak. People who grew up with the NES can be doctors today. Maybe it will be painful to wait but sooner or later it will happend and Im hoping SC2 will help change
In the end its up to us in the community if we want things to happend. Without fansites with volunteer workers there would be no community and no esports. To those already doing something (it doesnt have to be big since we are so many) good job! And to everyone else, remember that a community is not only about taking but also about giving back.
America - tough b/c video games have such a negative stigma attached to them to have a very wide appeal. A bigger problem though I feel, is that there is a great dirth of personnel to provide the MC roles... I suppose it's possible that the guys who are currently working in places like ITG and GGL could come on board, but I'm not sure how it'd work out b/c they'd essentially be competitors.
On August 09 2007 17:04 G.s)NarutO wrote: I would definatly pay for a TV station that streams SC.. SC2. Would be great, but I think this will not happen..
Well actually Giga2 is pretty close to that. Though atm they still have lots of older german material they repeat over and over again, they stream many international tournaments like the ESWC, the WCG (I think) and the WC3L in english. In the next few days they will cover the e-Stars tourney in Korea (with lots of korean progamers, I wonder why there's no thread about it here yet). So if Sc2 will overgrow Wc3 in popularity, G2 will surely bring lots of it on their shows. So I think in fact it is not very unlikely that your dream will come true.
In Korean economy was in a strange place when BW was released. Computer ownership was lower than in the west due to high prices but the technology was the same. Console games were shunned as Japanese. Thus the PCbang became widespread. This meant that instead of the antisocial gamer stigma which still exists in Europe and America gaming became a social activity, and spread in a way only really comparable to martial arts. People would meet at their local bang and play against each other, competing to be the best there, training together. They'd form teams and play the teams of other PC bangs. The best players from one would challenge the best players from others in a sort of dojo culture. When this fused with the mass media progaming was born.
Brood war was the right game in the right place. It was an accident of history and I don't think the same catalysts will come together in Europe. That being said, other catalysts such as an increasing gamer market and corporate sponsorship could create progaming here.
On August 09 2007 16:59 GuGo wrote: How could Blizzard encourage Sc2 e-sport?
They could start by arranging some tournaments and events outside of US and Korea for once, I know the bigger audience is in US and so on, But if Blizzard won't help promote SC2 in Europe and North America it is never gonna become anything else then a great RTS game.
On August 09 2007 17:04 G.s)NarutO wrote: I would definatly pay for a TV station that streams SC.. SC2. Would be great, but I think this will not happen..
Well actually Giga2 is pretty close to that. Though atm they still have lots of older german material they repeat over and over again, they stream many international tournaments like the ESWC, the WCG (I think) and the WC3L in english. In the next few days they will cover the e-Stars tourney in Korea (with lots of korean progamers, I wonder why there's no thread about it here yet). So if Sc2 will overgrow Wc3 in popularity, G2 will surely bring lots of it on their shows. So I think in fact it is not very unlikely that your dream will come true.
Giga is not really close to MBC/OGN . Not at all. Sorry. They stream far to many things.. I want a station that just sends SC/Sc2.
Probably not. America and most other countries already don't care much for fps games (which, given the short attention span of most viewers, would be the easiest genre to cover), so what makes anyone think sc2 will be different? I like bw too, but pretty much everyone here has a clear bias that is clouding their logic.
probably the first step in getting people interested would be speeding up the game. I dont like the idea, but in this instance, Entropy's 6 worker start would be nice. No more 2 minutes before action starts.
Think if you were a tv station that was broadcasting the games. Who in their right mind would wanna watch the first two minutes where you just mine and set up builds? (unless your cheesing or something of course) Hell, in reps, im sure most of us speed up the first two minutes, nothing happens usually. While myself and other gamers know that those first two minutes are integral to the game, the tv station, advertisers and viewers don't know and could probably give a damn, it wont sell.
Second is breaking the dork stereotype associated with BW and having a way for newbies to understand the game. To accomplish this, you would need a charismatic broadcaster that doesn't come off as a nerd, but knows the game and can relate it in layman's terms to the public. Basically, you need someone in Tasteless's mold.
It will happen, but maybe it'll take another generation. The young people are often "gamers" nowadays, while the old ones aren't. So this problem will solve itself soon. *evil laugh*
On August 09 2007 22:33 Hawk wrote: Second is breaking the dork stereotype associated with BW and having a way for newbies to understand the game. To accomplish this, you would need a charismatic broadcaster that doesn't come off as a nerd, but knows the game and can relate it in layman's terms to the public. Basically, you need someone in Tasteless's mold.
You need an AW(Attractive woman) commentator wich would solve the "nerd label" in an instant, just like it does for everything else since the defenition of nerdy things are those that you cant find aw's doing/liking/showing interest in.
As for the other things, sc2 already starts with 6 workers.
The problem is, America has no clue what eSports are.
Go ask a radio station, a group of 30-40 year old adults, go ask 90% of kids in high school.
Think back to when you got into it, was it by someone you knew? Was it by you stumbling onto it on the internet? I know it wasn't successful promotion by something like ICCup, Excello Cup, BlizzCon, CAL, etc.
I think sc2 will bring back the rts genre to America, and I'm going to do my damndest to make it succeed. But if eSports ever wants to be taken seriously, it needs to step into the light and show everyone what it is.
I dunno if it needs really hot people commentating, just people who dont look nerdy and dont dress it, and you can basically turn any nerd into an ok looking person. Do you think the pro gamers on MBC/OGN go on without someone fixing their hair and putting a bit of make up on them? Look at one of Saviors vods and look at the BlizzCon photo, where he doesnt look as good as he does on TV games.
And of course North Americans fucking LOVE drama. You'd have to get scripted conversations or something to get rivalries. I just hope it never gets to scripted games though.
On August 09 2007 20:36 Flooper wrote: Slim chance with trash like Halo 3 being shoved down the throats of gamers by Micro$oft.
Americans like crappy fps games like Halo and Counterstrike. Back when I played quake 3, which was like the starcraft of fps games, we were in the minority because the masses were infatuated with camperstrike. While I was tearing it up in Street Fighter 3rd strike, most people were lined up at the Tekken machine.
Starcraft 2 will be too good of a game for the American public. Americans prefer flash over substance and I don't think a sci-fi game that isn't Halo will be cool enough for the legions of teenage gutter trash.
Isn't tekken a pretty good game tho..? I'm not a fighting game player - at least not a serious one - but given that it has/had a huuuuuuge following in Korea, for instance, I'd assume it's a good competitive game?
If SC2 gets a TV show (would have to be 1-2 hours long) dedicated to SC2, then it would probably get a small surge of popularity. But I don't think it will become culturally anywhere near as popular as SC is in Korea.
The most popular games here in America don't even get TV attention. Halo, WoW or Counter Strike are probably the most popular games, but none of them get TV attention. Maybe some 5 minute, abridged version of competitive games, but the games themselves has never become an actual spectator show. I've seen some specials about competitive gaming on MTV and G4, but it was mainly the announcer telling you which side is winning, showing very little gameplay, and focusing the camera on the announcer/players.
Blizzard hasn't failed in the realm of PC games. Maybe they should try their hand at TV stations.
Blizzard should hire Tasteless and start their own online BlizzardTV channel Then organize a league and annual tournaments. Every dollar spent this way would at least double back to them in game sales if it helps progaming internationally xD
On August 09 2007 23:21 rushz0rz wrote: I dunno if it needs really hot people commentating, just people who dont look nerdy and dont dress it, and you can basically turn any nerd into an ok looking person. Do you think the pro gamers on MBC/OGN go on without someone fixing their hair and putting a bit of make up on them? Look at one of Saviors vods and look at the BlizzCon photo, where he doesnt look as good as he does on TV games.
And of course North Americans fucking LOVE drama. You'd have to get scripted conversations or something to get rivalries. I just hope it never gets to scripted games though.
You can dress someone up as much as you want, but that's not going to change their personality. Good commentary is essential to any sport and you're not going to get it with a nerd who knows it all but entertains no one.
Yea, commentators aren't hired for simply their knowledge of the game. They have to be colorful people who can keep viewers interested by sharing their interest and excitement.
I'm not a big fan of the Tasteless hype (he's sometimes talked about like the only man possible for any English SC-related job), but he is a really good commentator. He lets you know what's going on, he doesn't try to impress anyone with terms and explaining in-depth weird strategies, he's gets excited and is entertaining. I don't know what else to ask for in a commentator. Knowledge of the game is an absolute must, but so is an entertaining persona. Commentary for sports requires both.
One major problem with showing Starcraft on television in the United States is the time restraints. A match of Starcraft could last anywhere from 5 minutes to over 1 hour. It would be too difficult to try to show a match live without knowing exactly when it will end. The only way they could really do it is showing highlights of the matches along with live commentator, but that wouldn't be nearly as interesting to watch.
E-sports might rise up a bit and we might have a channel that broadcasts it, but I can guarantee it wouldn't be even close to mainstream popular. Not for many, many years. If it comes out soon, it will be low budget, with the people in charge of marketing not understanding why we would actually want to watch such a show.
If I think of my friends... the people I've associated with in high school and university, maybe 1% of them would watch a whole game of SC2 on TV and enjoy it. Because a very small percentage of them have even heard of something like Starcraft, much less played it beyond a few games casually.
When the game comes out, there is gunna be a huge buzz about it no doubt. Im also hoping that pro gaming becomes bigger here in north america. But how can blizzard help? Well first off there needs to be an audience. If you saw the pro games at blizzcon you have noticed that the crowd was not cheering as much as the crowds from korean e-sports. There is a big cultural difference there. The fact that starcraft has became so big in Korea is because they have an audience. With an audience you can get revenues from sponsorship and thats how e-sports becomes good entertainement. So how can Blizz help develop this in America? Imo it all comes down to if they are willing to put the bucks into the sport. But is that really Blizzards role? If other broadcasting companies think there is no market in America for pro gaming, will Blizzard be able to make any difference? I think nobody has the answer to this, we`just have to wait and see. Personally I would pay for adding a channel of pro gaming in my digital cable account, but would a broader audience do the same? I have doubts, it all comes down to profitability.
I think the time of the video games broadcasting will come soon in Europe. After all, we already have some channels that broadcast news about video games and also some video games tournament (like some PES match for instance). So i think we are still far from the audience in Korea, but we are coming closer and closer to it. Our generation (let's say people that are under thirty years old) have influence now on wether or not we should expand the broadcasting of Esports on TV. So i have hope.
It has to do with societal trends and whatnot. American stigma just seems to be watching things that involve physical action and the possibility of pain. Koreans don't mind watching it because of the more strategic aspect to the game (I know I'm overgeneralising here). Also, gaming as a whole seems to die out as people grow older (even me, I gamed a lot when I was little and I hardly do it at all anymore).
I think so.....the other day I showed my teenage sister one of klazart's vods....she liked it. (definitely not the type of person in to video games either)
On August 10 2007 01:06 Sudyn wrote: It has to do with societal trends and whatnot. American stigma just seems to be watching things that involve physical action and the possibility of pain. Koreans don't mind watching it because of the more strategic aspect to the game (I know I'm overgeneralising here). Also, gaming as a whole seems to die out as people grow older (even me, I gamed a lot when I was little and I hardly do it at all anymore).
I disagree. I don't think Americans are all that different from Koreans.
As long as it is popular and it gets more popularity then it becomes more accepted. I don't see where you got this generalization of America only liking physical action and the possibility of pain.
Poker is imo the "recent" popular American thing to watch. Poker has often more viewers than hockey.. yet it completely lacks physical action; and it's definitely not something that is completely "exciting".
Starcraft2 won't have any real blood but it could definitely be entertaining (as long as it has a competent "exciting" commentator and Sc2 lives up to its predecessor).
On August 10 2007 00:36 BigSausage wrote: u dont ahve no market for sc, americans dont like sc, they like ps3, xbox and other pc games. so u cant just ahve sc channel and shit
Can you stop with the bashing please? No one wants a starcraft channel, we want an esports channel. I would be fine if there was an eSports channel that had all games, but had a starcraft show... or had a wcg show that had sc in it.
Please stop acting like you know every American on the planet and know what they want and how they think.
If done right, any game can be an eSport... just look at WoW at CGS.
My friend just told me about watching a WoW arena match on TV which was followed up with a Guitar Hero 2 competition. Games do get on TV but they are only on specific (gaming) channels (I think it's called G4?) Also, this is not completely related, but they used to show Magic: The Gathering Pro Tour championships on ESPN2. It was pretty exciting and the announcers were similar to the ones on the WSoP.
I think part of the reason poker has become so popular on TV is because many believe that sitting there from a 3rd person perspective it is so obvious the other guy has nothing and if they were the guy sitting across from him, they'd re-raise all-in and take the guy's money, but the pro he's actually facing folds with top pair and top kicker. It will probably fade out of popularity despite the growing number of people playing the game (due in part to television coverage?)
USA's public opinion of gaming has improved despite the best efforts of Jack Thompson and conservative politicians to tie them in to events like the Columbine and Virginia Tech tragedies. It could be high time for gaming to take a front seat to multimedia presentations.
But keep in mind, there's a difference between esport and programing. Progaming is something that requires a huge enviroment with lots of background work while e-sports is something i can setup and the media covers it. Of course i know that progaming is e-sports here but you know what i mean.
Now i personaly don't care about anything else than broodwar. Before i discovered this whole programing in korea thing i was one of those guys who just sat down and whatched some (at least to me) random games from random leagues. Giga never build up a deeper connection to players or leagues. You basicaly had to research by yourself.
And in my eyes, that's one of e-sports greatest problems. a) They overfeed you with games without really getting in to it. I can watch my favorite player in bw from dual tournament up to the osl final. I'm part of his whole career. But GIGA showed you two nerds, nervous and sweaty as hell and you had no idea who that guy acctualy was. "He's so good"...yeah thx. Match over -> switch to next game. b) The media bunnyhops from e-sport title to e-sport title. Basicaly all you need as a publisher is a game, money and a press spokesman who constantly repeats "*product name* designed for e-sport". Throw enough cash in the tournament and the majority of players and the media jumps on your ship. Let it die after that. c) If you have no place, like a main city where every proteam has their house, don't even think about something similar as korean-progaming. After all, i don't give much about internet-gamers. I wan't to know and see more. You just need a nodal point for serious progaming.
Is it possible? Of course it is. But it needs lots of work. And we can't jump from 0 to korean standarts. We all know such things take years.
On August 10 2007 00:36 BigSausage wrote: u dont ahve no market for sc, americans dont like sc, they like ps3, xbox and other pc games. so u cant just ahve sc channel and shit
Can you stop with the bashing please? No one wants a starcraft channel, we want an esports channel. I would be fine if there was an eSports channel that had all games, but had a starcraft show... or had a wcg show that had sc in it.
Please stop acting like you know every American on the planet and know what they want and how they think.
If done right, any game can be an eSport... just look at WoW at CGS.
He's not bashing, he's speaking the truth. You just choose to be biased.
Go ask a good 50 people about bw in the states and you'd be lucky if 5-10 of them have even heard of it, let alone played it semi-regularly. And if they did play it, chances are, they were money mappers.
As much as you want there to be one, there is no market here. Plain and simple, it boils down to demographics and what genre sells best.
Clearly the demographic is gonna be mostly 12-25 year olds, probably more like 12-18. Take a look at kids today. What kinda game sells the most? A complex rts? Or a run around and shoot em up fps thats easy to pick up? There's hardly an e-sports market for the latter and that's what sells more in the states.
On August 10 2007 00:36 BigSausage wrote: u dont ahve no market for sc, americans dont like sc, they like ps3, xbox and other pc games. so u cant just ahve sc channel and shit
Can you stop with the bashing please? No one wants a starcraft channel, we want an esports channel. I would be fine if there was an eSports channel that had all games, but had a starcraft show... or had a wcg show that had sc in it.
Please stop acting like you know every American on the planet and know what they want and how they think.
If done right, any game can be an eSport... just look at WoW at CGS.
He's not bashing, he's speaking the truth. You just choose to be biased.
Go ask a good 50 people about bw in the states and you'd be lucky if 5-10 of them have even heard of it, let alone played it semi-regularly. And if they did play it, chances are, they were money mappers.
As much as you want there to be one, there is no market here. Plain and simple, it boils down to demographics and what genre sells best.
Clearly the demographic is gonna be mostly 12-25 year olds, probably more like 12-18. Take a look at kids today. What kinda game sells the most? A complex rts? Or a run around and shoot em up fps thats easy to pick up? There's hardly an e-sports market for the latter and that's what sells more in the states.
I have to disagree with you somewhat. While you are probably right about the number of people who have heard of/played bw out of 50 average people, and while you are also right about americans liking fps more, I think you are underestimating something.
Playing and watching are two different things. I would probably get pretty bored watching a fps tournament, but watching starcraft is immediately entertaining to many people. For example, I think that ANYONE who watched those great games at blizzcon with tasteless/mani/bunny would have a great time. The progamers themselves are such showmen and have a great story behind their careers. The game is also very entertaining to watch. Do you remember bunny saying that she likes to play warcraft but watch starcraft? I think its something that many americans could really get into.
On August 09 2007 17:04 G.s)NarutO wrote: I would definatly pay for a TV station that streams SC.. SC2. Would be great, but I think this will not happen..
Well actually Giga2 is pretty close to that. Though atm they still have lots of older german material they repeat over and over again, they stream many international tournaments like the ESWC, the WCG (I think) and the WC3L in english. In the next few days they will cover the e-Stars tourney in Korea (with lots of korean progamers, I wonder why there's no thread about it here yet). So if Sc2 will overgrow Wc3 in popularity, G2 will surely bring lots of it on their shows. So I think in fact it is not very unlikely that your dream will come true.
Giga is not really close to MBC/OGN . Not at all. Sorry. They stream far to many things.. I want a station that just sends SC/Sc2.
eh? don't mbc and ogn stream other games, like w3, kart rider, and other korean games too?
CGS at Directv, WCG Finals at SpikeTV.. Starcraft:Broodwar known already as a reference in pop culture (cmon.. wasnt a blast in almost every gaming site, webcomic, blog,w/e.. when SC2 was announced? just check the strip at pennyarcade).
If SC2 can get the attention of the "casual gamer" then it will be just question of time..
p.s.: yeah.. thats djwheat.. WAITING TO SEE TASTELESS THERE! (NO DOA FLAMES PLEASE!!!)
On August 10 2007 00:36 BigSausage wrote: u dont ahve no market for sc, americans dont like sc, they like ps3, xbox and other pc games. so u cant just ahve sc channel and shit
Can you stop with the bashing please? No one wants a starcraft channel, we want an esports channel. I would be fine if there was an eSports channel that had all games, but had a starcraft show... or had a wcg show that had sc in it.
Please stop acting like you know every American on the planet and know what they want and how they think.
If done right, any game can be an eSport... just look at WoW at CGS.
He's not bashing, he's speaking the truth. You just choose to be biased.
Go ask a good 50 people about bw in the states and you'd be lucky if 5-10 of them have even heard of it, let alone played it semi-regularly. And if they did play it, chances are, they were money mappers.
As much as you want there to be one, there is no market here. Plain and simple, it boils down to demographics and what genre sells best.
Clearly the demographic is gonna be mostly 12-25 year olds, probably more like 12-18. Take a look at kids today. What kinda game sells the most? A complex rts? Or a run around and shoot em up fps thats easy to pick up? There's hardly an e-sports market for the latter and that's what sells more in the states.
If I must say, you are forgetting that this is going to be Starcraft 2.. not merely just a "complex rts" game. Regardless if people stopped playing sc (or only plays money maps), Starcraft is very widely known. And this is even after 10 years had passed.
Starcraft 2 has a very real chance of being widely played and all it needs is to have somekind of motivation for people to keep playing it after a year or so. This is where Starcraft 2 progaming should definitely make its mark by trying to create an ORGANIZED tournament (possibly a dedicated Starcraft 2 channel) and by "advertising" their players. If they don't, then Sc2's popularity would inevitably decline. We are going to need the equivalent of Boxer, Nal_Ra, July and NaDa.
I guess I'm trying to say that Sc2 is not merely a no-name complex RTS, in that it is far more respected than any AoE or C&C games and it more widely known than Company of Heroes. As long as it has: -A dedicated Starcraft 2 channel -Good Commentators (Possibly something in between Tasteless and Klaz...Tasteless makes a bit too many jokes and Klaz is too in-depth for newbies to follow). -Marketing the players -Blizzard making Starcraft 2 balanced, entertaining and watchable.
On August 10 2007 00:36 BigSausage wrote: u dont ahve no market for sc, americans dont like sc, they like ps3, xbox and other pc games. so u cant just ahve sc channel and shit
Can you stop with the bashing please? No one wants a starcraft channel, we want an esports channel. I would be fine if there was an eSports channel that had all games, but had a starcraft show... or had a wcg show that had sc in it.
Please stop acting like you know every American on the planet and know what they want and how they think.
If done right, any game can be an eSport... just look at WoW at CGS.
He's not bashing, he's speaking the truth. You just choose to be biased.
Go ask a good 50 people about bw in the states and you'd be lucky if 5-10 of them have even heard of it, let alone played it semi-regularly. And if they did play it, chances are, they were money mappers.
As much as you want there to be one, there is no market here. Plain and simple, it boils down to demographics and what genre sells best.
Clearly the demographic is gonna be mostly 12-25 year olds, probably more like 12-18. Take a look at kids today. What kinda game sells the most? A complex rts? Or a run around and shoot em up fps thats easy to pick up? There's hardly an e-sports market for the latter and that's what sells more in the states.
Go ask a good 50 people if they've ever heard of Quake, Dead or Alive, or Counter Strike.
Is the target audience of a video game network/eSports network going to be your average joe? No, it's going to be gamers, it's going to be people who are interested in games.
If you ask 20 gamers if they've heard of or played Starcraft, gaurentee you all of them will say yes.
There will NEVER be an e-sports market in America for Starcraft... the game is TOO old. What you will find when you ask gamers here about Starcraft ... not even gamers, just random people... is that everybody KNOWS about Starcraft, and everyone will tell you "ya I used to play that game", but nobody does anymore.
SC won't get big here just because American's are more into the fast pace shooter game. SC is too slow in the early stages to attract a lot of attention.
SC2 however, might fix things. In SC2 the games are much more rapid and fast paced... starting with 6 workers instead of 4 cuts at least 2-3 minutes off of every game. When I was playing SC2, I played a 20 minute game and I had the feeling like "man this is an epic game". In SC, you get that feeling when the game approaches 40 minutes. So with a much faster paced SC2, especially with all the hype its getting (people here still love SC, they just don't play it because its slow paced, old, and has poor graphics and engineering compared to modern games)... so all the closet SC fans will jump onto SC2. A lot of WC3 people will probably board the SC2 train, and of course, a lot of the SC diehards (I'm talking about us, the foreign community, etc) will also jump on.
If Blizzard does their PR and marketing right, they are poised to generate such a large community in American, Europe, and even Korea... that it is POSSIBLE, in my opinion, to see a large e-sports market open up to SC2 here... if everything is done the right way.
Will it happen? Unsure. It largely depends on the gamers first of all, spreading the word, getting more and more people to play... and the companies picking up on an interest in SC2, and eventually getting the media to pick up on it. If all that happens, it is feasible to say that professional e-sports for SC2 could emerge outside Korea.
Well that's what everyone has been saying, SCBW, the game, isn't going to make it big in America... SC2, the franchise, will. I don't think anyone would say that SCBW is going to make it big in America.
On August 10 2007 05:07 ViRii wrote: Well that's what everyone has been saying, SCBW, the game, isn't going to make it big in America... SC2, the franchise, will. I don't think anyone would say that SCBW is going to make it big in America.
Um, in my opinion, unless something drastically changes, no. North america is too engulfed in FPS (cs) and consoles, and even then, they don't make it into something as big as in korea. Europe, plausible, but not really, and the main reason, is that while north america is 2 countries, same language, etc., europe is so many countries, so many languages, and it would be difficult to centralize everything. Just my opinion.
On August 10 2007 05:46 Wizard[pl] wrote: Europe, plausible, but not really, and the main reason, is that while north america is 2 countries, same language, etc., europe is so many countries, so many languages, and it would be difficult to centralize everything. Just my opinion.
Like everyone in europe that is older than 15 can read/write english as good as most english speakers, so thats not really a problem. I feel more comfortable writing in english than swedish, and i really hate when others start writing in swedish to me just beacuse im a swede.
Im not sure if this has been stated yet, but the biggest hurdle I see in making progaming work in North America, and to a lesser extent Europe is a central hub.
In South Korea you have a country that has almost all of its population centralized in one city. When you want to run a tourney, you don't have to pay for all the competitors to fly to the city, pay for accomodations, etc etc. In North America, to have a 16 player tournament last a month would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars just in flight/accomodation costs, let alone the players participating aren't able to support themselves in a foreign city. All we can really do is have one week / weekend events which themselves cost thousands in accomadation costs.
I don't see gaming as being "nerdy" anymore. Its a huge industry and the interest is there. PCGaming is going by the wayside somewhat to console gaming though.
On August 10 2007 05:58 Session9ine wrote: Im not sure if this has been stated yet, but the biggest hurdle I see in making progaming work in North America, and to a lesser extent Europe is a central hub.
In South Korea you have a country that has almost all of its population centralized in one city. When you want to run a tourney, you don't have to pay for all the competitors to fly to the city, pay for accomodations, etc etc. In North America, to have a 16 player tournament last a month would cost thousands upon thousands of dollars just in flight/accomodation costs, let alone the players participating aren't able to support themselves in a foreign city. All we can really do is have one week / weekend events which themselves cost thousands in accomadation costs.
I don't see gaming as being "nerdy" anymore. Its a huge industry and the interest is there. PCGaming is going by the wayside somewhat to console gaming though.
Yeah, I thought about that too. South Korea is extremely geographically small. The United States and Canada are HUGE. It would be much more difficult to arrange events here. As much as I'd love to see SC and SC2 on tv here, I don't think it will happen. Though I still hope it will!
The US will never have the same percentage of dedicated players as S. Korea had for BW due to all the things mentioned and some hinted at. But gaming is more and more mainstream, so anything could happen.
A couple of things Blizzard would probably have to do to help it:
1. Make SC2 appeal to BW and War3 players. I think they are trying this, whether they admit it or not. I'm scared some days and hopeful other days that it means SC2 will be really good. 2. Keep Bnet free. 3. Keep hackers out. 4. Keep new users interested in SC2. 5. Make SC2 highly skill based at higher levels.
I have high spirit for eSports to go mainstream, I mean on ESPN we got Scrabble and the Spelling Be.. also they got Xbox Madden on it.. YES Madden, the football game. So why not SC2? Or any other game? Which is what CGS is trying to do is to make gaming more mainstream with their lineup of games. The only thing that will be a challenge is RTS can be boring in the beginning when the players are mining for resources. in order to keep the audience interested they need to like alter the rules a little. Like give players like 2,000 minerals and 1,500 gas in the beginning so the battles can start off quickly. I'm not suggesting that, but it seems like the only way to keep it "intense".
It's like how CGS changed Counter-Strike's rules. In the traditional Counter-Strike format for CS 1.6 and CS:Source, the first round is pistol round and whoever wins the pistol round gets about $4,000 to upgrade to better weapons while the other team who lost the pistol round must save for 3 rounds to buy new guns to fight the other team on equal levels. Also in traditional Counter-Strike you start off with $800, but in CGS rules you start with max money, which is $16,000 so you can buy almost any gun. So each round will be action pack. And who ever wins rounds up to 10 wins I think.. But in the old rules for CS it was whoever wins 16 rounds wins the match. It might sound confusing to those who don't follow competitive Counter-Strike.
But yeah, SC2 MIGHT have a chance to make it mainstream in North America and other countries.
The only thing that will be a challenge is RTS can be boring in the beginning when the players are mining for resources. in order to keep the audience interested they need to like alter the rules a little. Like give players like 2,000 minerals and 1,500 gas in the beginning so the battles can start off quickly. I'm not suggesting that, but it seems like the only way to keep it "intense".
I really hope you're not serious with this. Americans aren't people who needs pew-pew action all the time.
And eitherway, 2000 minerals and 1500? I hope you were joking.
The only thing that will be a challenge is RTS can be boring in the beginning when the players are mining for resources. in order to keep the audience interested they need to like alter the rules a little. Like give players like 2,000 minerals and 1,500 gas in the beginning so the battles can start off quickly. I'm not suggesting that, but it seems like the only way to keep it "intense".
I really hope you're not serious with this. Americans aren't people who needs pew-pew action all the time.
And eitherway, 2000 minerals and 1500? I hope you were joking.
No, the beginning is the best part! thats where they hype everything and give you the background information... <3 beginning
Just my take on things: Unlikely to happen anytime soon. I think because we are on a Starcraft/Gaming forum people tend to lose sight that even amongst young people gaming is still a casual indulgence for most. The hardcore community on the other hand is MUCH more fragmented into niches. So it is really hard for any game, even big name FPS games to get on the tournament circuit and stay there for more than a year or two.
Starcraft 2 will be hyped like crazy I imagine, but imo the original+BW sold less in the states than one might think for such a "huge" franchise. Being a critical darling and commercial success are different things. Starcraft was very popular but it was not a casual crossover hit like the Sims or anything. I mean WoW is already outselling SC subscribers alone.
SC in Korea has the advantage of having top quality content(Speaking of the editing and commentating, though I dont speak korean and can only assume) and growing a very core audience from scratch.. and now lots of girls who watch even though they have NO idea about the game. Just because the guys are cute to them. I assume this is what is pushing the ratings up out of the niche they were in before, hence bigger starleagues and more proleague.
Shit like that will just not fly here, ever ever. America constantly has to dumb everything down and at best we would see edited highlights of games on G4 or the other game channel I keep hearing about. Im pretty sure the "Tournament(Like Guitar Hero is a fucking tournament game)" footage that people talked about on CBS recently was all just cobbled together and heavily edited which for someone who actually knows games will be bullshit. It basically alienates the hardcore, while failing to attract the fickle casual audience imo. But no one in television will risk making shows that actually appeal to the fans of these games, because it will require waiting for word of mouth to spread and ratings to pick up.
On August 10 2007 05:46 Wizard[pl] wrote: Um, in my opinion, unless something drastically changes, no. North america is too engulfed in FPS (cs) and consoles, and even then, they don't make it into something as big as in korea. Europe, plausible, but not really, and the main reason, is that while north america is 2 countries, same language, etc., europe is so many countries, so many languages, and it would be difficult to centralize everything. Just my opinion.
On August 09 2007 20:36 Flooper wrote: Slim chance with trash like Halo 3 being shoved down the throats of gamers by Micro$oft.
Americans like crappy fps games like Halo and Counterstrike. Back when I played quake 3, which was like the starcraft of fps games, we were in the minority because the masses were infatuated with camperstrike. While I was tearing it up in Street Fighter 3rd strike, most people were lined up at the Tekken machine.
Starcraft 2 will be too good of a game for the American public. Americans prefer flash over substance and I don't think a sci-fi game that isn't Halo will be cool enough for the legions of teenage gutter trash.
SC2 needs the equivalent of HLTV, then it'll really take off. Pro CS 1.6 has a huge following in Europe and the States due to this -- you don't need to connect to some crappy, blurry stream with some horrible commentator who has no idea what he's talking about (although that's an additional option at big tourneys, of course), you can just connect and watch the game as if you were playing it on your own comp. Add in more advanced demo options than what SC1 had and it should be golden.
On August 10 2007 05:46 Wizard[pl] wrote: Um, in my opinion, unless something drastically changes, no. North america is too engulfed in FPS (cs) and consoles, and even then, they don't make it into something as big as in korea. Europe, plausible, but not really, and the main reason, is that while north america is 2 countries, same language, etc., europe is so many countries, so many languages, and it would be difficult to centralize everything. Just my opinion.
And your location is poland.
Location is Canada, by country I assume it means nationality.
EPT
Still the USA is a much different market environment than korea. 
