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Why I suggest: EU has loads of talent, NA seems frozen in time (only scarlett, neeb have talent (and already lack commitment)).
So, only Scarlett and Neeb have talent and yet: Neeb doesn't qualify.
You say EU has loads of talent and yet: none of the NA (or LatAm if you want) players finished 4th in their group, as opposed to EU and all other regions except KR. (and both NA players took a game from koreans, while only Reynor, Serral and Koreans achieved the same)
The point you had made sense, but the example you bring isn't supported by facts.
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On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 05:57 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 02:12 deacon.frost wrote:On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote:
The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs. You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet? What is your POINT? That if they start more Europe/NA friendly, then Koreans are playing from the midnight to their noon while they still have to attend GSL. The finals were at 4 AM of the Korea. Again the timeslots were pathetic for Koreans and you want them to make it worse...
You need to read posts before you comment. I was talking about the viewership, not the players. These are two completely different things.
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i think when you get into later stages you should have interview with players before match not just after winners interview.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On September 22 2020 15:22 BaneRiders wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:On September 22 2020 05:57 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 02:12 deacon.frost wrote:On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote:
The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs. You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet? What is your POINT? That if they start more Europe/NA friendly, then Koreans are playing from the midnight to their noon while they still have to attend GSL. The finals were at 4 AM of the Korea. Again the timeslots were pathetic for Koreans and you want them to make it worse... You need to read posts before you comment. I was talking about the viewership, not the players. These are two completely different things.
How can you watch the tournament without the players? It's connected and unless DH manages to avoid conflicts with Code S and plans the schedule so Koreans have the time to prepare they need to respect the players. Because otherwise they get blame from "korean elitists" and they get lower quality of games.
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Czech Republic12128 Posts
On September 22 2020 10:11 bela.mervado wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:
To the timezones - that would be true if the timeslots were better considering the Code S. But since many players played their group and then DH it's questionable at best. GSL group stage 1 group H overlaps, but (luckily?) none of them played in ESL Fall finals. The actual korean players in ESL Fall finals, and important match dates: player: (GSL group stage 1) ---- (ESL Fall finals) --- (GSL group stage 2) Rogue: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 17-19 ---- oct 10 Innovation: sep 12 ---- sep 18-20 ---- oct 10 Stats: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 16-19 ---- oct 7 Trap: aug 29 ---- sep 15-20 ---- oct 10 TY: none (s2 ro4) ---- sept 15-19 ---- sept 23 So Innovation had 6 days between GSL and ESL, Trap had 2 weeks, others had an S2 ro4 pass. TY has 4 days between ESL and GSL, others will chill for 2 weeks. They are fine.
sep16 group selection?
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On September 22 2020 16:55 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 10:11 bela.mervado wrote:On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:
To the timezones - that would be true if the timeslots were better considering the Code S. But since many players played their group and then DH it's questionable at best. GSL group stage 1 group H overlaps, but (luckily?) none of them played in ESL Fall finals. The actual korean players in ESL Fall finals, and important match dates: player: (GSL group stage 1) ---- (ESL Fall finals) --- (GSL group stage 2) Rogue: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 17-19 ---- oct 10 Innovation: sep 12 ---- sep 18-20 ---- oct 10 Stats: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 16-19 ---- oct 7 Trap: aug 29 ---- sep 15-20 ---- oct 10 TY: none (s2 ro4) ---- sept 15-19 ---- sept 23 So Innovation had 6 days between GSL and ESL, Trap had 2 weeks, others had an S2 ro4 pass. TY has 4 days between ESL and GSL, others will chill for 2 weeks. They are fine. sep16 group selection?
Finals group B with Stats and DRG was unfortunate, true.
Other than that, group selections is pretty minor. Or do you think they had to practise builds for group selection? 
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On September 22 2020 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 15:22 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:On September 22 2020 05:57 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 02:12 deacon.frost wrote:On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote:
The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs. You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet? What is your POINT? That if they start more Europe/NA friendly, then Koreans are playing from the midnight to their noon while they still have to attend GSL. The finals were at 4 AM of the Korea. Again the timeslots were pathetic for Koreans and you want them to make it worse... You need to read posts before you comment. I was talking about the viewership, not the players. These are two completely different things. How can you watch the tournament without the players? It's connected and unless DH manages to avoid conflicts with Code S and plans the schedule so Koreans have the time to prepare they need to respect the players. Because otherwise they get blame from "korean elitists" and they get lower quality of games.
The DH global final should be planned to avoid conflict with GSL schedule at least, because between GSL match and DH global final match, GSL matches are always more important than DH final match for Korean player, both in terms of price money and possible EPT point.
However, the issue with when the match start is not going to be easy to resolve, since there is (about) 8 hours time zone difference for Korea and Europe. ESL is an european company, and it want to cater for the English speaking audience, the start time is going to be not optimal for Korea.
If the match start after mid-night, the mental state of the player is almost always going to be sub-optimal, thus affecting the performance. Obviously, there is always people claiming that the pro-player are used to not sleeping until next morning, but playing ladder game and playing in the "biggest" tournament requires different physical and mental state.
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My biggest issue with this season was that it didn't just feel that special. The summer season felt like a tier one tournament, this just didn't for whatever reason. I think it is partially due to disenchantment towards the bedroom broadcast vibes that I got from some of the casting/hosting work. I understand it is a work from home situation to the talent as well, but for me at least it kind of diminished the status of the tournament that the talent looked and acted like they were on their own personal streams.
ESL could send them green screen setups with tournament overlays/neutral backgrounds like Blizzard did for the Hearthstone GM broadcasts. There could be a bit of a dress code to signal the status as the official broadcast of the main SC2 competitive circuit. It just felt a bit too cosy for a premier event all in all.
Also, as others have already said, having the same casters on for entire EU+NA broadcast during the regionals was probably not the best way to do it. Occasionally 6+ hour broadcast of commentary, possibly across weird time zones, was pushing the limits of the casters as well. Change casters halfway through that broadcast, or alternate between two sets so there is enough downtime and breaks for the casters as well.
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On September 22 2020 16:52 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2020 15:22 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote:On September 22 2020 05:57 BaneRiders wrote:On September 22 2020 02:12 deacon.frost wrote:On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote:
The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs. You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet? What is your POINT? That if they start more Europe/NA friendly, then Koreans are playing from the midnight to their noon while they still have to attend GSL. The finals were at 4 AM of the Korea. Again the timeslots were pathetic for Koreans and you want them to make it worse... You need to read posts before you comment. I was talking about the viewership, not the players. These are two completely different things. How can you watch the tournament without the players? It's connected and unless DH manages to avoid conflicts with Code S and plans the schedule so Koreans have the time to prepare they need to respect the players. Because otherwise they get blame from "korean elitists" and they get lower quality of games.
Kindly stop hi-jacking my posts with this everything-is-so-unfair-for-Koreans agenda. You want to discuss how bad Koreans are treated by DH in this tournament? Feel free to do so, but don't quote me to get an alibi for such a discussion here.
Viewership is not necessarily defined by when games are played, but rather when games are broadcasted.What is the point of broadcasting anything if most people can't watch it after all? Hence it should be possible to schedule games when they suit the players and broadcast them with a few hours of delay or so, in order to get as much views as possible. This is something DH could look into for the next tournament, identify peak hours and finetune their broadcasting accordingly. Players would of course have to agree not to post any spoilers until games have been broadcasted, and that should be doable.
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please no casting from replays.
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Offline play is not an option. If you visit family and friends somewhere, 2 weeks in quarentine is not so bad, but if you are forced be locked in a hotel room or even countryside quarentine camp (like they have in NZ) it is can be both expensive and mental torture, and you can not even bring your complete gaming setup.
Some players might even have to do quarentines returning home as well as before the event, so up yo 4 weeks total. It is just too much to ask.
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On September 23 2020 05:03 striderx2048 wrote:
please no casting from replays.
There wasn't any casting from replay afaik. Maybe i'm mistaken?
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On September 23 2020 18:15 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2020 05:03 striderx2048 wrote:
please no casting from replays. There wasn't any casting from replay afaik. Maybe i'm mistaken?
Nope, there was non. It was all live
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On September 21 2020 23:52 Balnazza wrote:Show nested quote +
I'm pretty sure ESL can find legal loopholes around any travel bans - they can just hire some law consultants or talk to lawyers.
As for Korea, I went there in the middle of the pandemic. Regarding the two week quarantine thing, you can stay at a friend or family's house and isolate for two weeks. So they can all stay in the Jinair Team House or a Korean friend's house like Tasteless or Artosis. I'm sure they are willing to help out ESL in the name of Esports.
Then they play the weekend tournament from the dorms/apartments/houses on the KR server. It's really that simple.
I do not get why ESL is trying to make this so complicated.
1)Why make it an offline event, when players have to play from a hotel anyway? 2)The ESL is in full-charge of this, so they probably wouldn't play from korea. Instead, they would chose one of their studios (Burbank, Cologne or Leicester I think?). Cologne/Germany would be the obvious choice. In germany, everyone coming from a high-risk country (which is basically everything) has to be in quarantine for five to fourteen days. That includes casters, players and potential other stuff. And they probably have to be in quarantine on their return, too, which could result in some koreans not to be able to play GSL in the following week. 3)ESL isn't even doing their Counterstrike vents offline, even though those probably generate much more money than SC2. So when CS isn't possible, why should they do Starcraft? It is just unnessecary. 4)All teams in the LEC (League of Legends) are living in Berlin, but even THEY didn't go to the studio, also located in Berlin. They played from their respective teamhouses. So ESL would always have to answer the question, why they took such a huge risk with a relatively small event like the SC2 Masters
1. Playing online all on the same server will drastically reduce lag and make games more fair.
2. If quarantine is what it takes, then so be it. Make it a longer tournament. Europe is fine. NA is fine. As long as they all play on the same server all the time. I suggested Korea because they have cheap and effective Covid 19 plans that's way more advanced than any country.
3. They cam do CS and SC2 and all of their games offline at some outdoor area to mitigate spread of covid 19. Same thing as outdoor dining.
4. SC2 is not dying as you suggest. Its 100% worth the investment.
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I wrote few things :
1. Players could use some other colors instead of red vs blue,
2. ESL could force players to use skins and promote them that way with % of payment to ESL to fund other tournaments,
3. Caster's rewamp,
4. Fewer games a day in group stage, it's too stacked and sometimes you can't watch 4 streams in the same time,
5. Quit regional lock politics and mix it up.
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On September 23 2020 18:52 serralfan18 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2020 23:52 Balnazza wrote:
I'm pretty sure ESL can find legal loopholes around any travel bans - they can just hire some law consultants or talk to lawyers.
As for Korea, I went there in the middle of the pandemic. Regarding the two week quarantine thing, you can stay at a friend or family's house and isolate for two weeks. So they can all stay in the Jinair Team House or a Korean friend's house like Tasteless or Artosis. I'm sure they are willing to help out ESL in the name of Esports.
Then they play the weekend tournament from the dorms/apartments/houses on the KR server. It's really that simple.
I do not get why ESL is trying to make this so complicated.
1)Why make it an offline event, when players have to play from a hotel anyway? 2)The ESL is in full-charge of this, so they probably wouldn't play from korea. Instead, they would chose one of their studios (Burbank, Cologne or Leicester I think?). Cologne/Germany would be the obvious choice. In germany, everyone coming from a high-risk country (which is basically everything) has to be in quarantine for five to fourteen days. That includes casters, players and potential other stuff. And they probably have to be in quarantine on their return, too, which could result in some koreans not to be able to play GSL in the following week. 3)ESL isn't even doing their Counterstrike vents offline, even though those probably generate much more money than SC2. So when CS isn't possible, why should they do Starcraft? It is just unnessecary. 4)All teams in the LEC (League of Legends) are living in Berlin, but even THEY didn't go to the studio, also located in Berlin. They played from their respective teamhouses. So ESL would always have to answer the question, why they took such a huge risk with a relatively small event like the SC2 Masters 1. Playing online all on the same server will drastically reduce lag and make games more fair. 2. If quarantine is what it takes, then so be it. Make it a longer tournament. Europe is fine. NA is fine. As long as they all play on the same server all the time. I suggested Korea because they have cheap and effective Covid 19 plans that's way more advanced than any country. 3. They cam do CS and SC2 and all of their games offline at some outdoor area to mitigate spread of covid 19. Same thing as outdoor dining. 4. SC2 is not dying as you suggest. Its 100% worth the investment.
1. Yes, but it still would be from a hotel, which might not even be equipped for that. 12 players have to finance that themselves (when you do it in korea), since ESL probably won't pay for it.
2. Longer tournaments don't equal more payment. On the contrary, the hype diminishes and the viewership decline.
3. They can't do it...because if they could, they would. Those events are spread all around the globe and players had to go into quarantine every time. It is just not working and WAY too expensive.
4. I'm not saying SC2 is dying, but that it is much smaller than LoL or CS. It is worth the investment, but not on a scale that you suggest.
No offense, but you seem kind of naive about this topic. Like ESL had an infinite amount of money that they could spend on SC2 to make it offline in current times. While every other global esport is on hold/switched to online. Probably the only big offline event we will get are the League of Legend World Finals. But those are in China for a whole month without visitors and are the last competition of the year. And even that event won't have english shoutcasters on side, they will work from EU and NA.
The only alternative to the current DH Masters system is...none. We just skip global competition for a whole year. Can't see why that would ever hurt the game, right?
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Stream on Youtube instead. The Twitch vod interface is garbage and not being able to rewind the stream whilst it's still live is annoying.
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no, as long as youtube offers no picture in picture , there is no reason to go for youtube where you are posting in real names in chat
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On September 23 2020 18:15 algue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2020 05:03 striderx2048 wrote:
please no casting from replays. There wasn't any casting from replay afaik. Maybe i'm mistaken?
There was no casting from replay.
However, somewhere alone this thread, someone suggested the tournament to be play at a different time (to better accommodate players from different region) and have the broadcast at a later time (for better viewership). For full detail, you can read through the reply / comment from this thread. Hence the "casting from replay" comment.
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No article on the Finals results? 
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EPT
