I'm pretty sure ESL can find legal loopholes around any travel bans - they can just hire some law consultants or talk to lawyers.
As for Korea, I went there in the middle of the pandemic. Regarding the two week quarantine thing, you can stay at a friend or family's house and isolate for two weeks. So they can all stay in the Jinair Team House or a Korean friend's house like Tasteless or Artosis. I'm sure they are willing to help out ESL in the name of Esports. Then they play the weekend tournament from the dorms/apartments/houses on the KR server. It's really that simple.
I do not get why ESL is trying to make this so complicated.
Laughing so hard at the mental image of the homes of Tasteless and Artosis being squatted by groups of quarantined players.
Also love how you nonchalantly suggest ESL should just find some loopholes for international travel bans.
“It’s really that simple.” It only is in your mind because you have no clue about the logistics of an event like this.
On September 21 2020 17:26 Argonauta wrote: It will be great if, after the survey, they could release some meta info. I am quite interested of the gender gap in Esports is being reduced or not and the avg age of sc2 fans.
which gender gap you have in mind?
edit> ffs, cannot decide if what or which is the correct term... when you're selecting from multiple choices it's ... which?
I enjoyed the event, but would like a bit more focus on the players:
- more intervies would definitely be welcome (like to both players before the matches, have some beef/banter/competition)
- let the player chose a little piece of music to have as an intro instead of those free samples, like in the proleague days (<10 seconds should not bring copyright issues), it would add so much flavour!
- start earlier, let's not make the koreans play in the night
- I always enjoyed a 3rd/4rth decider match to have a fuller finals day and more competition
On September 21 2020 16:54 IMSupervisor wrote: This tournament made me realise 2 things I had never thought about before.
1. I don't ever want to hear a guitar again when a player is being introduced. It's the lamest kind of introduction I think I have ever heard. 2. The vods being uploaded to Youtube are cut too short after the final victory. Please let me decide when I am done listening to the commentary and analysis of the games.
Literally this, i could not agree more with you, right on both points!
1) Less frequent but longer ad breaks if possible. Nothing more demoralizing to me than getting "ad break ==> Caster talks ==> ad break ==> more caster talk ==> game starts" I'd rather have : Long break (with a countdown, I beg you) ==> Caster talks ===> Game starts
2) Crowd funding some of the cash prize for the players on top of the DH/ESL/Blizzard money, pretty please? Especially for the 9th to 44th places during the regional events to support the local scenes.
3) Viewer pols to see which player the crowd thinks is the favourite (and to give the casters something more to talk about )
4) Whip the TL admins into submission and force them to give us liquibets for each regional event final phase and the global event or just set up a page for the viewers to bet on who's gonna win each match with a ranking to see who's the best at predicting
On September 21 2020 21:17 algue wrote: 1) Less frequent but longer ad breaks if possible. Nothing more demoralizing to me than getting "ad break ==> Caster talks ==> ad break ==> more caster talk ==> game starts" I'd rather have : Long break (with a countdown, I beg you) ==> Caster talks ===> Game starts
2) Crowd funding some of the cash prize for the players on top of the DH/ESL/Blizzard money, pretty please? Especially for the 9th to 44th places during the regional events to support the local scenes.
3) Viewer pols to see which player the crowd thinks is the favourite (and to give the casters something more to talk about )
4) Whip the TL admins into submission and force them to give us liquibets for each regional event final phase and the global event or just set up a page for the viewers to bet on who's gonna win each match with a ranking to see who's the best at predicting
5) Play each group one after another
Literally turned off everyday because 1) anoyed me so much! Game ends, ad break, caster tease talk with smix/wardi/..., ad break... really annyoing.
I think 5) is hard to do for the players, since it would almost surely cause some huge downtime for some of them...
The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs.
I'm pretty sure ESL can find legal loopholes around any travel bans - they can just hire some law consultants or talk to lawyers.
As for Korea, I went there in the middle of the pandemic. Regarding the two week quarantine thing, you can stay at a friend or family's house and isolate for two weeks. So they can all stay in the Jinair Team House or a Korean friend's house like Tasteless or Artosis. I'm sure they are willing to help out ESL in the name of Esports. Then they play the weekend tournament from the dorms/apartments/houses on the KR server. It's really that simple.
I do not get why ESL is trying to make this so complicated.
1)Why make it an offline event, when players have to play from a hotel anyway? 2)The ESL is in full-charge of this, so they probably wouldn't play from korea. Instead, they would chose one of their studios (Burbank, Cologne or Leicester I think?). Cologne/Germany would be the obvious choice. In germany, everyone coming from a high-risk country (which is basically everything) has to be in quarantine for five to fourteen days. That includes casters, players and potential other stuff. And they probably have to be in quarantine on their return, too, which could result in some koreans not to be able to play GSL in the following week. 3)ESL isn't even doing their Counterstrike vents offline, even though those probably generate much more money than SC2. So when CS isn't possible, why should they do Starcraft? It is just unnessecary. 4)All teams in the LEC (League of Legends) are living in Berlin, but even THEY didn't go to the studio, also located in Berlin. They played from their respective teamhouses. So ESL would always have to answer the question, why they took such a huge risk with a relatively small event like the SC2 Masters
In remembrance to Incontrol, please STOP announcing every game the 2 players. We know who is playing. And also the Introduction Sounds have to be more various, not only metal.
When Semifinals were brought by feardragon it also was too much.... probably better to go for rifkin than feardragon or craighton who are either doing false realtime analysis or hyping things too much and/or in the wrong direction of the outcome
And handsup for the mobile interface usage in the playoffs, really good
EDIT: as one mentioned before, due to the fact that in Finals we mix the regions up, there HAS TO BE a lower bracket. You are shifting completely different metaskillgroups together and nobody gets a 2nd chance is somewhat odd.
On September 21 2020 16:54 IMSupervisor wrote: This tournament made me realise 2 things I had never thought about before.
1. I don't ever want to hear a guitar again when a player is being introduced. It's the lamest kind of introduction I think I have ever heard. 2. The vods being uploaded to Youtube are cut too short after the final victory. Please let me decide when I am done listening to the commentary and analysis of the games.
On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote: The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs.
You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet?
Time zones from players perspective: When athletes go to a "real" international sports event, they have to get used to the different timezone. There is enough time. Some are luckier than the others. In this case the finals were 4 am ish Korean time. There should be no problem with that, in a few days accomodation it should be doable. With that said, there are 3-4 big events in a year, they could introduce some variations in the finals timetable, to sometimes favor the Korean players. Anyways, I don't give a f.k, they [all players] are all pros, timetables are public and announced well in time, they have to deal with it.
Viewership on the other hand is a whole different beast. (Those friday 6 am CEST GSL starting times -.- easier to stay up than to wake up THAT early. I guess this is not exactly the casual viewers' behaviour.)
1) If i missed it, ignore: - for the final championships, there should be a qualifying mode, which determines number of particpants. Since ESL or whoever committed for 3 years, you could still start this now for the last WC. Example: NA have none in the WC 2021 Ro8 (all out earlier)--->no more 3+ NA in WC 2022, only 2. Why I suggest: EU has loads of talent, NA seems frozen in time (only scarlett, neeb have talent (and already lack commitment)). Every other sport has something like this.
2) Casters: Can somebody please be some kind of supervisor? Poeple like Wardi and feardragon are. not. casters. Maybe they have their talent even speechrelated elsewhere, but I honestly fall asleep every time theyre casting. Seriously. I FALL ASLEEP. IN MY CHAIR. Feardragon doesn't have anything to say, that's not already on the screen 30 seconds ago and Wardis phonetics are the same. Every game all game long. Theres no excitement, nothing. Not even in the semi?finals. Is there no newblood interested in casting (i can think of Creighton and the bird dude at a glance)? Can't you make Tastosis casting at least the Winter finals or something? Casters make or break the experience. You want a future? don't let sleepy casters destroy it. New guys might not understand whats going on, but if the casters are freaking out, they might stay and think: ' hm, maybe this is fascinating'. Judge casters by: - Creativity/humour, descriptiondetail/speechspeed/vocal ability, enthusiasm and don't forget the x-factor!
3) Mode:
Who voted Golden Wall out of the map pool? It's the ONE map that allows for creativity and forces the players to think on their feet. This is what creates upsets and makes every game a joy to watch. Listen to the casters, you can (hello enthusiasm..) almost hear them sigh when they have to cast about reaper vs zerglings again. This is not a balance problem or game intrinsic. It is because every Pro has played the openings 1000 times. Compare this to chess. 15 (!) turns are mostly 'known' to everybody. Normally I'd argue in favour of this, being a product of a well balanced and professionally played game. But these are different times and it's a video game, not a century old board game. I propose something like: the map pool should be 4 standard maps, 1 short, one long, 2 medium large. Then add creative fun maps on top of this like golden wall. And then don't let the players vote for the maps, but either viewers or tournament officials. If you want the players involved in more than just playing the game you have to find something else. You can't let chessplayers choose if they want white, black or if they wanna swap the color of a tile before starting to play.
Get rid of the stupid 'GSL-type' brackets. Round robin is the way to go, if u want to spice it up AND have less games (the change makes it more games), then allow for draws and make it best of 2. Groups like they are now are NOT exciting (via the mode). Almost every match (not game) is a last chance for somebody. If you create upsets with maps or other things, you can be fair to professional gamers this way.
I love watching SC2. Make it more professional. It has the potential to last for decades, like it already did.
On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote: The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs.
You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet?
On September 21 2020 22:03 BaneRiders wrote: The scheduling of the main event's group stage didn't fit any group of viewers it looked like. It started too early for EU and NA, so the viewership was much lower (2/3?) compared to the EU playoffs.
You do realize that KOREA is on the other side of planet?
What is your POINT?
That if they start more Europe/NA friendly, then Koreans are playing from the midnight to their noon while they still have to attend GSL. The finals were at 4 AM of the Korea. Again the timeslots were pathetic for Koreans and you want them to make it worse...
On September 22 2020 02:55 bela.mervado wrote: Some random thoughts without conclusions.
Time zones from players perspective: When athletes go to a "real" international sports event, they have to get used to the different timezone. There is enough time. Some are luckier than the others. In this case the finals were 4 am ish Korean time. There should be no problem with that, in a few days accomodation it should be doable. With that said, there are 3-4 big events in a year, they could introduce some variations in the finals timetable, to sometimes favor the Korean players. Anyways, I don't give a f.k, they [all players] are all pros, timetables are public and announced well in time, they have to deal with it.
Viewership on the other hand is a whole different beast. (Those friday 6 am CEST GSL starting times -.- easier to stay up than to wake up THAT early. I guess this is not exactly the casual viewers' behaviour.)
To the timezones - that would be true if the timeslots were better considering the Code S. But since many players played their group and then DH it's questionable at best. Agreed on the fact that there are multiple tournaments and it would be nice if some were more Korea friendly considering foreigners don't have their tourneys during DH
On September 22 2020 08:32 deacon.frost wrote: To the timezones - that would be true if the timeslots were better considering the Code S. But since many players played their group and then DH it's questionable at best.
GSL group stage 1 group H overlaps, but (luckily?) none of them played in ESL Fall finals.
The actual korean players in ESL Fall finals, and important match dates: player: (GSL group stage 1) ---- (ESL Fall finals) --- (GSL group stage 2)
Rogue: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 17-19 ---- oct 10 Innovation: sep 12 ---- sep 18-20 ---- oct 10 Stats: none (s2 ro4) ---- sep 16-19 ---- oct 7 Trap: aug 29 ---- sep 15-20 ---- oct 10 TY: none (s2 ro4) ---- sept 15-19 ---- sept 23
So Innovation had 6 days between GSL and ESL, Trap had 2 weeks, others had an S2 ro4 pass. TY has 4 days between ESL and GSL, others will chill for 2 weeks.
I'd like to have a different observer interface. The current one is very confusing to read. Also definitely have casters work during their normal hours and not be forced to work in the middle of the night. I felt so bad having someone from Europe or Australia work at 3AM local time.
Best of 7 semi finals and best of 9 grand finals would be nice, especially with the season finals. Season 3 is supposed to the last one for the 2020/2021 EPT and would be a great way to go out in a bang and change things up. Maybe add a double elimination bracket with the player from the winners bracket having a 1-0 lead?
Definitely less ad breaks. The way the ads being structured were very annoying. I understand players need time to set up and prepare, but they should be at the ready shortly after the previous match is over.
Change the introduction music. Let the players choose their own intro music just like Proleague.
Add a week between regional finals and seasonal finals, and have seasonal finals played out over 2 full weeks instead of 6 days.
I didn't add a lot of these point sin the survey.... Should I add it in and redo the survey?
On September 21 2020 14:48 serralfan18 wrote: Play offline again. It's way more fair for everyone. Just wear a mask and social distance and everyone will be safe. It's that simple.
With international flights being cut down and the difficulty and expense of travelling between countries at the moment, this just isn't feasible.
I would cut the prize pool by 10% and not use 5 star hotels. Also, traveling internationally is possible right now.
It s different in every country. For example everyone from Korea would have to stay in complete isolation in a hotel for 2 weeks upon coming back home from the trip. Those are afaik realy realy bad. There are many countries that still have travel bans in place for several countries. So it would be pretty much impossible to find a location, where all players actually can get to and get back home from without lengthy and costly isolation and so on.
I'm pretty sure ESL can find legal loopholes around any travel bans - they can just hire some law consultants or talk to lawyers.
As for Korea, I went there in the middle of the pandemic. Regarding the two week quarantine thing, you can stay at a friend or family's house and isolate for two weeks. So they can all stay in the Jinair Team House or a Korean friend's house like Tasteless or Artosis. I'm sure they are willing to help out ESL in the name of Esports. Then they play the weekend tournament from the dorms/apartments/houses on the KR server. It's really that simple.
I do not get why ESL is trying to make this so complicated.
If they were to travel, they'd have to get it paid for by ESL, the team, or out of pocket and stay in a hotel. Traveling is definitely possible but for a "dead" game (when compared to CS:GO, LoL, and Valorant), I'm not so sure tournament organizers or teams want to spend that kind of money. The risk vs reward is simply not there for SC2 season finals. If it was for the grand finale like League of Legends World Championship, then maybe it's worth spending that kind of money to bring players from around the world together.
EPT
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