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TY & Stats on the Future and Decline of Korean SC2

Forum Index > SC2 General
66 CommentsPost a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-09-03 21:56:48
August 26 2020 23:40 GMT
#1


Here, we have TY and Stats conclude the interview series with discussing of what's in it for future of Korean SC2, the cause of decline, and worries about looming future of Korean scene

They also talk about how TY was able to become a trophy winner when he couldn't reach finals beforehand.

this is part 3 of 4 part interview series. Previous 3 videos are here:

Part 1: (GSL, Practicing, Difference between BW vs SC2)
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWYrIhVyjes

Part 2: (SC2 vs BW, Region lock, foreigner vs korea)
+ Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOwCRspg9t8

Part 3: (Balance Patches)
+ Show Spoiler +


Playlist of Snow's English subs: (TY& Stats, CLouD
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdqi0o4auh2HWTaLfI33PCPwiD6yk02N6

Please support snow by subbing!
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bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary418 Posts
August 26 2020 23:58 GMT
#2
<3 thank you
ZombieGrub
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States722 Posts
August 27 2020 00:28 GMT
#3
Thank you!
Commentator"Defeat is the acceptance of my own laziness." - SlayerS_'Boxer'
SamirDuran
Profile Joined May 2012
Philippines895 Posts
August 27 2020 00:32 GMT
#4
thanks for you hard work! Rain is really a genius isn't it?
Don't practice until you can get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.
jinjin5000
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1561 Posts
August 27 2020 00:42 GMT
#5
On August 27 2020 09:32 SamirDuran wrote:
thanks for you hard work! Rain is really a genius isn't it?


Yup. Success at everything he touches.

Success in SC2, success in Brood War as soon as he joined, and now, success in variety/IRL streaming.
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
690 Posts
August 27 2020 02:20 GMT
#6
On August 27 2020 09:42 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2020 09:32 SamirDuran wrote:
thanks for you hard work! Rain is really a genius isn't it?


Yup. Success at everything he touches.

Success in SC2, success in Brood War as soon as he joined, and now, success in variety/IRL streaming.

Success in BW before he went to SC2 too, PL rookie of the year award including an all kill over OZ including Jaedong! Very sad he left RTS, but can't blame a brain that big for getting bored with only the hardest video game in the world
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8255 Posts
August 27 2020 02:51 GMT
#7
Watching that was so sad. Wish we still had the LoL or CS:GO teams picking up SC2 players and creating a team league or something.
ShowTheLights
Profile Blog Joined June 2012
Korea (South)1718 Posts
August 27 2020 04:10 GMT
#8
On August 27 2020 09:42 jinjin5000 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2020 09:32 SamirDuran wrote:
thanks for you hard work! Rain is really a genius isn't it?


Yup. Success at everything he touches.

Success in SC2, success in Brood War as soon as he joined, and now, success in variety/IRL streaming.


What part of the interview do they talk about Rain?

He's my favorite player

Fucking wasting his talents in mobile games
•••Acer.MMA••• <> KT_Puzzle <> JinAir•GreenWings_CoCa <> CJ_herO <> Axiom CranK & Ryung <> IM_Seed <> IM_Squirtle <> le' ToD <> Innovation <> ROOT_CatZ <> inuh! <> Chobra <> SKT1_Fantasy
digmouse
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
China6333 Posts
August 27 2020 04:37 GMT
#9
On August 27 2020 13:10 ShowTheLights wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2020 09:42 jinjin5000 wrote:
On August 27 2020 09:32 SamirDuran wrote:
thanks for you hard work! Rain is really a genius isn't it?


Yup. Success at everything he touches.

Success in SC2, success in Brood War as soon as he joined, and now, success in variety/IRL streaming.


What part of the interview do they talk about Rain?

He's my favorite player

Fucking wasting his talents in mobile games

He donated part of his liver to his father, it might have prevented him from investing further into the training regimes of pro gaming.
TranslatorIf you want to ask anything about Chinese esports, send me a PM or follow me @nerddigmouse.
luxon
Profile Joined August 2012
United States117 Posts
August 27 2020 06:25 GMT
#10
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.

The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it.
jpg06051992
Profile Joined July 2015
United States580 Posts
August 27 2020 06:45 GMT
#11
It's always going to be niche. SC2 is chess which only the tactical and the astute appreciate, then you have things like Fortnite/PubG/whatever that appeal to the brainless masses.
"SO MANY BANELINGS!"
dbRic1203
Profile Joined July 2019
Germany2655 Posts
August 27 2020 07:31 GMT
#12
On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.


Well an even bigger impact was the fall of pro league and the disbanding of the Team house environment they talked about. Wich has nothing to do with blizzard, but more so with the match fixing scandal.
I completly agree on your analogy to traditional sports, though. Team sports generally speaking attract more viewers for sure.
MaxPax
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8218 Posts
August 27 2020 09:46 GMT
#13
These interviews are so damn good. Thanks a million jinjin5000 for translating!
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
SamirDuran
Profile Joined May 2012
Philippines895 Posts
August 27 2020 10:22 GMT
#14
On August 27 2020 16:31 dbRic1203 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.


Well an even bigger impact was the fall of pro league and the disbanding of the Team house environment they talked about. Wich has nothing to do with blizzard, but more so with the match fixing scandal.
I completly agree on your analogy to traditional sports, though. Team sports generally speaking attract more viewers for sure.

yeah, they also stated that Life and the matchfixing scandal contributed a lot on the decline of KR SC2. What KR scene needs right now is a lot of new blood. And as TY stated, he is not worried about the future of SC2 as a whole, he is worried on Korean Starcraft scene as a whole and the word Starcraft will not be synonymous to South Korea anymore.

But good thing is they are positive towards ESL making KR SC2 great again...
Don't practice until you can get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong.
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2958 Posts
Last Edited: 2020-08-27 14:03:27
August 27 2020 10:43 GMT
#15
On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.

The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it.


I think you‘re strongly underestimating the popularity of Tennis. It is among the top 5 most viewed sports in the world. Together with Pong Pong (quite surprising to me :o Is it that popular in Asia?) and Golf there are 3 individual sports being among the top 10. and far more than the top 5 Tennis players live lucratively. Team athletes are on the rise right now in terms of income and they have been for some time, but there are still quite a lot of individual athletes that do insanely well money- and popularity-wise.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12134 Posts
August 27 2020 11:02 GMT
#16
On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.

The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it.

Weeell, yeah, but in the ping pong nobody in China disbanded the infrastructure, while the Koreans no longer have it. Anyway, doesn't matter anymore, damage has been dealt already.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Poopi
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France13023 Posts
August 27 2020 11:51 GMT
#17
Great stuff, enjoyed the 4 videos thoroughly, thanks for the traduction!
WriterMaru
ejozl
Profile Joined October 2010
Denmark3561 Posts
August 27 2020 11:53 GMT
#18
Thank you so much.
SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
August 27 2020 12:08 GMT
#19
On August 27 2020 15:25 luxon wrote:
Incredible set of interviews, thanks for translating!

Yes Blizzard is definitely 50% responsible for killing the korean scene. I hate it (as a foreigner I loved watching all kor tournaments cause you know its the best in the world, foreigners had objectively worse mechanics and game sense), but its understandable. Hell ITTF changed the ping pong rules and world rankings just to prevent all chinese finishes. It's necessary in some sense to foster the growth of the sport. And it's evident with the new up and coming foreigners and the fact that these formerly no name foreigners in WoL (yes, serral included) are competing with top koreans.

The other 50% as they address, is the high barrier to entry and the fact that 1v1 games will never be as compelling as team games. This is true in conventional sports too; compare tennis viewership to literally any team sport (basketball, football, soccer). In tennis the top 5 players live lucratively and the rest have to take part time jobs. This is hard to address; it would take a complete redesign of sc to make it an actual RTS team game, and current players probably won't like it.

Tennis is incredibly lucrative compared to most regular jobs, even quite low down. There’s still an appetite for 1v1 games, I mean look at the box office for Mayweather v McGregor for one.

Team activities do tend to be more popular though, although I think that’s partly due to being able to support a team in perpetuity. Even Roger Federer has a sell by date, but Manchester United existed long before I was alive and will probably greatly outlive me. Plus a bit of the tribal element.

eSports is a little different because not just is a higher proportion of the viewership active players, but they’re playing in the same ecosystem as even the top pros are. So I think both the social aspect as well as the less stress (for most) sees more playing team games and thus watching them.

That said I think Starcraft (or some other RTS) loses some of its particular unique selling points if it’s made into a team game. It’s a game of raw mechanics, brains and gambits and I wonder if that’s just diluted if it’s converted, even into a very good game.

Players have their own personalities and stories and very identifiable styles, from Has level cheddar to Stats level standard and everything in between.

I mean some people, myself included prefer the mano o mano nature of a 1v1 game too, both to play and observe. I find it a lot easier to follow the flow of a 1v1 game and the important actions than a 5v5 one.

Perhaps 1v1 combat is doomed to be an increasing niche, but it could remain a pretty chunky niche to fill. There’s no guarantee that changing things to a team game doesn’t just lose your core niche audience for no appreciable gain or even a decline.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
LTCM
Profile Joined May 2017
174 Posts
August 27 2020 12:37 GMT
#20
I've come to accept why a region lock was needed years and years ago.

No one has ever answered me why region lock was left in place for 2019 and now 2020. And then as icing on the cake, Apollo will tell you, "we are considering the possibility of removing region lock for 2021". How is it a possibility... Should be 100% final and approved already.

Shame on blizzard and now ESL. You cannot boast everyone else by continuing to choke hold kr.
Byun is a convicted match-fixer.
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